Senator McCain calls for U.S. intervention in Syria

[KingOrfeo]

No, really:

"The President must state unequivocally that under no circumstances will Assad be allowed to finish what he has started, that there is no future in which Assad and his lieutenants will remain in control of Syria, and that the United States is prepared to use the full weight of our airpower to make it so."

There is certainly reason for alarm from a humanitarian and moral point of view. As McCain said: "The kinds of mass atrocities that NATO intervened in Libya to prevent in Benghazi are now a reality in Homs," Senator McCain said. "Indeed, Syria today is the scene of some of the worst state-sponsored violence since Milosevic’s war crimes in the Balkans, or Russia’s annihilation of the Chechen city of Grozny."

Yeah, Senator, it's pretty bad. But it could get even worse. Syria is a lot more complicated than Libya. It has a Sunni-Shi'a divide like pre-invasion Iraq, only in Syria's case the minority is Sunni and the ruling elite is Shi'ite (or Alawite). That's a formula for a protracted civil war with ethnic cleansing.

Anyone else think this is a good idea?

 

[unregistered]

 

[Adre]

Has there ever been a war he did not want?

 

[JohnnySavage]

Halliburton needs something to replace Iraq with.

 

[TexasWife25]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

 

[Wok]

No, really:



Yeah, Senator, it's pretty bad. But it could get even worse. Syria is a lot more complicated than Libya. It has a Sunni-Shi'a divide like pre-invasion Iraq, only in Syria's case the minority is Sunni and the ruling elite is Shi'ite (or Alawite). That's a formula for a protracted civil war with ethnic cleansing.

Anyone else think this is a good idea?

Iran should be first. Syria can wait.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Iran should be first. Syria can wait.

We're going to need a list...

 

[KingOrfeo]

Iran should be first. Syria can wait.

Syria would be easy by comparison, you know. Iran is just as volatile as Iraq, and more than three times as big, and has no active, armed domestic insurgency to support. I'm not sure we could take Iran; and if we did, the occupation-and-nationbuilding would be an even bloodier and costlier quagmire than Iraq was.

OTOH, if we help the Syrian rebels win, then, as in Libya, we don't have to actually occupy the country. The problem is, Syria is a social-ethnic-religious powderkeg in a way Libya never was, and a civil war there could lead to neighborhood-by-neighborhood ethnic cleansing, like in post-Invasion Iraq, maybe even worse.

And then, of course, the very-best-case scenario result would be . . . judging by Tunisia and Egypt, these Arab-Spring revolutions, if successful, tend to bring the Muslim Brotherhood or something like it to power; which is not so bad, the MB are really the MENA equivalent of Europe's Christian Democrats, they're not about to stone adulterers or declare war on Israel. Probably it will be the same in Libya, just because the MB got politically organized before anybody else. So, if we back the rebels and they win and there are elections, probably something like the MB will get a majority or plurality, and we have what amounts to a new MB Bloc from Tunisia to Syria. Which, again, is not such a bad thing, except perhaps from the POV of Israel, which would face a bloc of all its neighbors allied for the first time since 1973. Which, in terms of diplomatic and other pressure, might result in a (really) independent Palestine, but not in the destruction of Israel, which remains strong and U.S.-allied. OK. But, is this result worth the U.S. going to war to achieve?

 

[Wok]

Syria would be easy by comparison, you know. Iran is just as volatile as Iraq, and more than three times as big, and has no active, armed domestic insurgency to support. I'm not sure we could take Iran; and if we did, the occupation-and-nationbuilding would be an even bloodier and costlier quagmire than Iraq was.

OTOH, if we help the Syrian rebels win, then, as in Libya, we don't have to actually occupy the country. The problem is, Syria is a social-ethnic-religious powderkeg in a way Libya never was, and a civil war there could lead to neighborhood-by-neighborhood ethnic cleansing, like in post-Invasion Iraq, maybe even worse.

Iran is going to wipe Israel off the map. Why do you hate Jews so much?

 

[1sickbastard]

No, really:



Yeah, Senator, it's pretty bad. But it could get even worse. Syria is a lot more complicated than Libya. It has a Sunni-Shi'a divide like pre-invasion Iraq, only in Syria's case the minority is Sunni and the ruling elite is Shi'ite (or Alawite). That's a formula for a protracted civil war with ethnic cleansing.

Anyone else think this is a good idea?

McCain is calling on POTUS Obama to intervene in Syria for the exact same reasons the right castigated Obama for becoming involved in Lybia.

Anyone else find that ridiculous?

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

I say close our borders and let the heretics kill each other off.

 

[richard_daily]

Iran should be first. Syria can wait.

They said that same thing about the Balkins...

I have to say, while I think McCain is a moron, something does need to be done to protect the people in Syria.

Is this country the one to do it? Probably not, but the Arab League is sitting around with their hands in their pockets while people are being brutally murdered in what will amount to some of the worst war crimes that we've seen in this decade.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Still it's not really our problem. I have no problem with a limited engagement and I hate that they are being killed in such large numbers but maybe this is something that needs to happen. The Middle East wasn't always the terror capital of the world mayhaps it'll help (especially now when so many of them are uprising on their own) for something sufficiently horrible to happen for them to have a Never Again moment.

 

[Wok]

They said that same thing about the Balkins...

I have to say, while I think McCain is a moron, something does need to be done to protect the people in Syria.

Is this country the one to do it? Probably not, but the Arab League is sitting around with their hands in their pockets while people are being brutally murdered in what will amount to some of the worst war crimes that we've seen in this decade.

But, but... the nuclear weapons!

 

[John Doe]

McCain is calling on POTUS Obama to intervene in Syria for the exact same reasons the right castigated Obama for becoming involved in Lybia.

Anyone else find that ridiculous?

No. McCain isn't on the right.

 

[semen4her]

I thought this was strange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC7GGrUdJUI&feature=endscreen&NR=1

 

[JackLuis]

Syria for Syrians, I say.

Let the French cast the first missile. They have always had interests in Syria and are most protective of their markets. It's time they fought for Liberty and Justice!
I'm sure that Pentagon can get them the ordinance to do the job, our factories are running overtime and the warehouses are filling up.

We'll take it in Euros too, such a deal!

 

[QueenLevitra]

Halliburton needs something to replace Iraq with.

Bingo!

(altho it's not known as Halliburton anymore the money still cha-chings in the same pockets)

 

[eyer]

Syria and Iran will be attacked simultaneously...

...and Lebanon (Hezbollah) will be, too, if they so much as launch one missile in retaliation.

There are more than 15K Islamic Republic of Iran Republican Guards now aiding Assad in massacring the Syrian people...

...Iran is mainlining arms to Assad and Hezbollah, as Russia keeps it flowing to both Iran and Syria.

The green light for attack simply awaits Communist China...

...we'll see soon how fond the statists have actually become of their own perverted form of capitalism.

The most scary part of it all is imagining what kind of deal the socialists Obama and Clinton are making with Communist China...

 

[Beco]

Has there ever been a war he did not want?

He needed to spend more time in a prison camp.....I mean really, do we need to drop more bomb, send more money to syria that we dont have? Hillary and McCain can kiss my ass.....

Let Russia, or China, Turkey, or Jordan, perhaps the Arab League of Nations to do the clean-up....lazzy fucks

 

[KingOrfeo]

Syria and Iran will be attacked simultaneously...

Yeah, like we can afford that.

 

[Drixxx]

Isn't this the same person who decided this idiot was the best choice to be a heartbeat away from the President?

http://imgupld.lunaticoutpost.com/graphic/images/2011/September/14/1E5C_4E713634.gif

 

[eyer]

Subject: INSIGHT - military intervention in Syria, post withdrawal status of forces
Date: 2011-12-07 00:49:18
From : bhalla@stratfor.com
To: secure@stratfor.com

[REMINDER: this email is 3 months old now...]

A few points I wanted to highlight from meetings today --

I spent most of the afternoon at the Pentagon with the USAF strategic
studies group - guys who spend their time trying to understand and explain
to the USAF chief the big picture in areas where they're operating in. It
was just myself and four other guys at the Lieutenant Colonel level,
including one French and one British representative who are liaising with
the US currently out of DC.

They wanted to grill me on the strategic picture on Syria, so after that I
got to grill them on the military picture. There is still a very low level
of understanding of what is actually at stake in Syria, what's the
strategic interest there, the Turkish role, the Iranian role, etc. After a
couple hours of talking, they said without saying that SOF teams
(presumably from US, UK, France, Jordan, Turkey) are already on the ground
focused on recce missions and training opposition forces. One Air Force
intel guy (US) said very carefully that there isn't much of a Free Syrian
Army to train right now anyway, but all the operations being done now are
being done out of 'prudence.' The way it was put to me was, 'look at this
way - the level of information known on Syrian OrBat this month is the
best it's been since 2001.' They have been told to prepare contingencies
and be ready to act within 2-3 months, but they still stress that this is
all being done as contingency planning, not as a move toward escalation.

I kept pressing on the question of what these SOF teams would be working
toward, and whether this would lead to an eventual air camapign to give a
Syrian rebel group cover. They pretty quickly distanced themselves from
that idea, saying that the idea 'hypothetically' is to commit guerrilla
attacks, assassination campaigns, try to break the back of the Alawite
forces, elicit collapse from within. There wouldn't be a need for air
cover, and they wouldn't expect these Syrian rebels to be marching in
columns anyway.

They emphasized how the air campaign in Syria makes Libya look like a
piece of cake. Syrian air defenses are a lot more robust and are much
denser, esp around Damascus and on the borders with Israel, Turkey. THey
are most worried about mobile air defenses, particularly the SA-17s that
they've been getting recently. It's still a doable mission, it's just not
an easy one.

The main base they would use is Cyprus, hands down. Brits and FRench would
fly out of there. They kept stressing how much is stored at Cyprus and how
much recce comes out of there. The group was split on whether Turkey would
be involved, but said Turkey would be pretty critical to the mission to
base stuff out of there. EVen if Turkey had a poltiical problem with
Cyprus, they said there is no way the Brits and the FRench wouldn't use
Cyprus as their main air force base. Air Force Intel guy seems pretty
convinced that the Turks won't participate (he seemed pretty pissed at
them.)

There still seems to be a lot of confusion over what a military
intervention involving an air campaign would be designed to achieve. It
isn't clear cut for them geographically like in Libya, and you can't just
create an NFZ over Homs, Hama region. This would entail a countrywide SEAD
campaign lasting the duration of the war. They dont believe air
intervention would happen unless there was enough media attention on a
massacre, like the Ghadafi move against Benghazi. They think the US would
have a high tolerance for killings as long as it doesn't reach that very
public stage. Theyre also questiioning the skills of the Syrian forces
that are operating the country's air defenses currently and how
signfiicant the Iranian presence is there. Air Force Intel guy is most
obsessed with the challenge of taking out Syria's ballistic missile
capabilities and chem weapons. With Israel rgiht there and the regime
facing an existential crisis, he sees that as a major complication to any
military intervention.

The post 2011 SOFA with Iraq is still being negotiated. These guys were
hoping that during Biden's visit that he would announce a deal with
Maliki, but no such luck. They are gambling ont he idea that the Iraqis
remember the iran-iraq war and that maliki is not going to want to face
the threat of Iranian jets entering Iraqi air space. THey say that most
US fighter jets are already out of Iraq and transferred to Kuwait. They
explained that's the beauty of the air force, the base in Kuwait is just a
hop, skip and jump away from their bases in Europe, ie. very easy to
rapidly build up when they need to. They don't seem concerned about the
US ability to restructure its forces to send a message to Iran. They gave
the example of the USS Enterprise that was supposed to be out of
commission already and got extended another couple years to send to the
gulf. WHen the US withdraws, we'll have at least 2 carriers in the gulf
out of centcom and one carrier in the Med out of EuCom. I asked if the
build-up in Kuwait and the carrier deployments are going to be enough to
send a message to Iran that the US isn't going anywhere. They responded
that Iran will get the message if they read the Centcom Web Site. STarting
Jan. 1 expect them to be publishing all over the place where the US is
building up.

Another concern they have about an operation in Syria is whether Iran
could impede operations out of Balad air force base in Iraq.

The French representative was of hte opinion that Syria won't be a
libya-type situation in that France would be gung-ho about going in. Not
in an election year. The UK rep also emphasized UK reluctance but said
that the renegotiation of the EU treaty undermines the UK role and that UK
would be looking for ways to reassert itself on the continent ( i dont
really think a syria campaign is the way to do that.) UK guy mentioned as
an aside that the air force base commander at Cyprus got switched out from
a maintenance guy to a guy that flew Raptors, ie someone that understands
what it means to start dropping bombs. He joked that it was probably a
coincidence.

Prior to that, I had a meeting with an incoming Kuwaiti diplomat (will be
coded as KU301.) His father was high up in the regime, always by the
CP's/PM's side. The diplo himself still seems to be getting his feet wet
in DC (the new team just arrived less than 2 weeks ago,) but he made
pretty clear that Kuwait was opening the door to allowing US to build up
forces as needed. THey already have a significant presence there, and a
lot of them will be on 90-day rotations. He also said that the SOFA that
the US signs with Baghdad at the last minute will be worded in such a way
that even allowing one trainer in the country can be construed to mean
what the US wants in terms of keeping forces in Iraq. Overall, I didnt get
the impression from him that Kuwait is freaked out about the US leaving.
Everyhting is just getting rearranged. The Kuwaitis used to be much
better at managing their relations with Iran, but ever since that spy ring
story came out a year ago, it's been bad. He doesn't think Iran has
significant covert capabililiteis in the GCC states, though they are
trying. Iranian activity is mostly propaganda focused. He said that while
KSA and Bahrain they can deal with it as needed and black out the media,
Kuwait is a lot more open and thus provides Iran with more oppotunity to
shape perceptions (he used to work in inforamtion unit in Kuwait.) He says
there is a sig number of kuwaitis that listen to Iranian media like Al
Alam especially.

On the Kuwaiti political scene - the government is having a harder time
dealing with a more emboldened opposition, but the opposition is still
extremely divided, esp among the Islamists. The MPs now all have to go
back to their tribes to rally support for the elections to take place in
Feb. Oftentimes an MP in Kuwait city will find out that he has lost
support back home with the tribe, and so a lot of moeny is handed out.The
govt is hoping that witha clean slate they can quiet the opposition down.
A good way of managing the opposition he said is to refer cases to the
courts, where they can linger forever. good way for the govt to buy time.
He doesnt believe the Arab League will take significant action against
Syria - no one is interested in military intervention. they just say it to
threaten it.

http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1...ry-intervention-in-syria-post-withdrawal.html

 

[Type_O_Negative]

McCain is hell of a lot smarter than obama.

 

[1fromawoodpile]

The last thing we need is to create, or enter an existing, conflict in another Islamic country. So far, the cycle started in 1991 hasn't yielded us anything. We are no better off with an Iraq closer to Iran. The Taliban is politically stronger than ever in Afghanistan. We are only contributing to the pool terrorists fish in. Let the Jewish state handle Iran while an Arab world silently enjoys the Persian set back. As for the civil war in Syria, too bad. It's not our business!