Native Americans are from Russia!

[3113]

Comrades!

More specifically, from Siberia...

Altai in southern Siberia sits right at the centre of Russia. But the tiny, mountainous republic has a claim to fame unknown until now - Native Americans can trace their origins to the remote region.

DNA research revealed that genetic markers linking people living in the Russian republic of Altai, southern Siberia, with indigenous populations in North America. A study of the mutations indicated a lineage shift between 13,000 and 14,000 years ago - when people are thought to have walked across the ice from Russia to America.

Anyone for borscht?

http://www.zoogstercostumes.com/images/products/ru889496.jpg

 

[sr71plt]

I saw that movie. It was The Russians Are Coming, the Russians Are Coming, wasn't it?

(Someone told me it was a porn film. I was so pissed when I found out it wasn't.)

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Interesting. A recent exhibit about the ancient Americas at the Field Museum here in Chicago said that some Native Americans may be able to trace their lineage back to China.

 

[shoulderblade]

Interesting. A recent exhibit about the ancient Americas at the Field Museum here in Chicago said that some Native Americans may be able to trace their lineage back to China.

I think that is the accepted theory at this time. Great thing is that it can be proven one way or the other by genetic testing.

 

[cloudy]

We're considered Asians, in the three classes of humans, but the people who have historically lived in Siberia are Asians, as well.

 

[3113]

"If I were a Navajo...yadda, yadda, yadda...."* What? No one wants to sing along?

*To the tune of "If I were a rich man...."

 

[mynameisben]

We are all from Gondwanaland anyway. I don't see what's the big deal.


You think you own whatever land you land on
The Earth is just a dead thing you can claim
But I know every rock and tree and creature
Has a life, has a spirit, has a name

You think the only people who are people
Are the people who look and think like you
But if you walk the footsteps of a stranger
You'll learn things you never knew you never knew

Have you ever heard the wolf cry to the blue corn moon
Or asked the grinning bobcat why he grinned?
Can you sing with all the voices of the mountains?
Can you paint with all the colors of the wind?
Can you paint with all the colors of the wind?

Come run the hidden pine trails of the forest
Come taste the sunsweet berries of the Earth
Come roll in all the riches all around you
And for once, never wonder what they're worth

You can own the Earth and still
All you'll own is Earth until
You can paint with all the colors of the wind

- excerpts from Colors of the Wind, by Stephen Schwartz (c) 1995

 

[Ironiclaconic]

You guys hadn't heard of the land bridge or didn't realize that it connected to Siberia?

The Heavy Lifting on DNA and linguistics was done 15 years ago. Google the academic work of Luigi Cavalli-Sforza. Cool stuff.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

I think it's all beautifully rich and fascinating.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Uh, the land bridge hypothesis has numerous holes in it. A route by canoe down the coast is currently favored. Possibly both were involved.

 

[estragon]

I'm partial to the canoe theory myself, but willing to be persuaded otherwise. In any case, we can all sing a chorus of "We're here because, we're here because, we're here because we're here."

 

[Ironiclaconic]

Uh, the land bridge hypothesis has numerous holes in it. A route by canoe down the coast is currently favored. Possibly both were involved.

There are differing models for human migration to the Americas but the land bridge one is the best known and it surprised me that anyone who knew about it would be surprised that Narive Americans were genetically related to Siberians.

That said we know the land bridge was real and that animal species like horses travelled across it. The debate is really over when it happened, with certain time estimates requiring sea travel because Beringia wasn't open at that specific time.

 

[TxRad]

Comrades!

More specifically, from Siberia...


Anyone for borscht?

So, how come American Indian's don't speak Russian?

13-14000 Years? Skeletal remains have be found in this country that date back over 30,000 years. A little discrepancy?

Where is not a problem just when.

 

[3113]

So, how come American Indian's don't speak Russian?

They do speak Russian, it's just out of date Russian

13-14000 Years? Skeletal remains have be found in this country that date back over 30,000 years. A little discrepancy?

The 30,000 year old ones are from those that sailed from Africa and got lost. Just like the Egyptians and Vikings who sailed and got lost thousands of years later

 

[sr71plt]

So, how come American Indian's don't speak Russian?

They were stripped of all their Russian possessions at the customs checkpoint on the land bridge.

 

[Ironiclaconic]

So, how come American Indian's don't speak Russian?

13-14000 Years? Skeletal remains have be found in this country that date back over 30,000 years. A little discrepancy?

Where is not a problem just when.

I have never heard of human skeletal remains dating back 30k years in the New World. There are some archaeologists who think habitation dates back that far but their evidence is a lot weaker than a skeleton. Instead they point to things like charcoal that could have other explanations.

 

[mynameisben]

They do speak Russian, it's just out of date Russian


The 30,000 year old ones are from those that sailed from Africa and got lost. Just like the Egyptians and Vikings who sailed and got lost thousands of years later

I think the 30,000 year old bones were left 13,000 years ago by Russian pranksters. That's what I would have done.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I have never heard of human skeletal remains dating back 30k years in the New World. There are some archaeologists who think habitation dates back that far but their evidence is a lot weaker than a skeleton. Instead they point to things like charcoal that could have other explanations.

That is my understanding, as well. Some linguistic evidence suggest 70,000 but there is no material support for it. The basic problem is that the seas have risen some 200 feet since the depth of the last ice age and the sites that most strongly support a water route to the New World are under water.

 

[lance gt]

Thought I'd throw some geographic history into this. 15000 yrs ago, the last ice age ended and Canada was home to the last great ice sheets, specifically covering the area from Manitoba, northern Ontario to the east coast. Before it let go, the island chain now known as the Aleutians, extended right across the Pacific to Asia, around Kamchatka. It was the route used for centuries by fishermen to follow the migration of sea life. When the ice sheets could no longer hold back the inland sea covering the now midwest plains, it flooded the sea with enough water to submerge the greater part of the chain and separate the continents.

Genetics show a direct connection to Siberians with Eskimos, Inuit and northern aboriginal indians. The southern plains indians of the US, are decendants of the central American tribes that migrated north and south. DNA markers show a mix of both races in the northern tribes of the US and Canada, showing inter-breeding.

It's great living an hour away from the Six Nations Reserve one way and Iroquois lands the other way. I learned a lot of history firsthand without the usual biased interpretations in books.

 

[mynameisben]

It was all Gondwanaland hundreds of thousands of years ago. Does it really matter that "Russians" trekked into "America" 15 or 30 thousand years ago? Political boundaries carved by man are the fluff stories found in the Geological Times.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Pffffft! North America didn't even exist until it was discovered by a brave Italian!

**ducks the things Comrade Cloudy throws at me**

 

[3113]

IDoes it really matter that "Russians" trekked into "America" 15 or 30 thousand years ago?

Of course it does! Now those of us of Russian descent can find our long-lost cousins!

 

[mynameisben]

Of course it does! Now those of us of Russian descent can find our long-lost cousins!

We're all cousins, cuz. Be he Mitt Romney or the shaven ape urinating on the dumpster behind Pep Boys, he's related to you and me and everybody else.

 

[R. Richard]

Pffffft! North America didn't even exist until it was discovered by a brave Italian!

Some five centuries before 'a brave Italian' arrived in the Caribbean (NOT North America,) the northman Thorfinn Karlsefni, arrived in what's now Newfoundland and set up a typical northman farm. No one, from the academic community really believed this. A northman farm was then discovered and excavated at L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland, in the 1960s, thus proving the northman arrival.

(The northmen of Thorfinn Karklsefni's time believed that there were evil creatures that could assume the form of men. However, the evil creatures were immortal and couldn't be killed. So, Thorfinn and the boys killed one of the evil creatures [an Amerind,] thus proving the humanity of the Amerinds. Were the Amerinds grateful for the proving of their humanity? They weren't grateful and they declared war against the newcomers. Eventually the war with the Amerinds was a key factor in the northmen leaving North America.)

Much later. wop boy arrived in what he thought were islands, South of India. Thus he called the autocthons, Indians. He never discovered North America, nor did he set foot in North America. (The cheap bastard could have avoided a lot of misunderstanding, if he read the northman sagas or bought a good travel guide.)

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Actually, Colombus was a much better navigator than that and knew full well he was too far north to be in India. He thought the place he had arrived was a vaguely described set of islands called The Indies. Today we call then the Phillipines. However, the name for the First Nations comes from one of his letters which still exists in the Vatican Library. In it he tells how the local inhabitants are amazingly innocent and pure a true 'people in God' or in Spanish, 'gente in dios. This was misunderstood by those following in his train to be gente indios from which we derive Indians.