Haredi Jews and "secularists" in major conflict in Israel

[renard_ruse]

If you haven't heard there is a near civil war going on within Israel between the "secularist" majority (and Orthodox or religious Zionists) vs. the ultra-Orthodox haredi that has flared up in the past few months.

According to much of the media (Israeli and international), they would have you believe that the Haredi or ultra-Orthodox Jews are the aggressors in the current situation in Israel. On the other hand, from everything I have been able to filter through the media bias, it seems rather to me that this is a clear and simple case of bigotry (perhaps organized at a fairly high level) against a religious minority that many in the majority hate and would even like to get rid of. Even the alleged incident that is at the core of the current flare up, the spitting on an non-Haredi girl on the way to school, if not completely manufactured, is at the least being exploited as sheer propaganda to incite a frenzy of hate against the Haredim. That a Haredi child was also spit on by an anti-Haredi is basically ignored, among numerous other provocations.

I would link to articles, but they all seem to make the Haredim out to be the "bad guys." The Wikipedia summary of the events, surprisingly, seems a bit more balanced:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi-secular_conflict_in_Israel_in_winter_of_2011-2012

Frankly, it seems to me, the idea that a marginalized minority of 10% can be a "threat" to the "liberty" of the majority is ridiculous. This seems like nothing more than old fashioned bigotry against those who are different dressed up as a struggle for "rights" or "for women" or any other excuse. Kind of reminds me of the demonization of Muslims here and in Europe.

 

[renard_ruse]

All over the world it seems like the oh-so-"tolerant" "secularists" are waging attacks to eliminate religious people, starting with the most religious with excuses like "fighting zealots" or "for women" or for this, that or the other lame excuse. I find this terrible.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Didn't you post the exact same topic yesterday?

Not getting enough attention?

 

[koalabear]

Didn't you post the exact same topic yesterday?

Not getting enough attention?

Apparently you aren't.

 

[eyer]

Next thing you know the majority will be crucifying the ringleader of the minority...

 

[badbabysitter]

I still like how renard is failing to mention spitting on an eight year old girl, calling a woman soldier a slut because she wouldnt sit at the back of the bus, forcing girls out of their public schools and dressing up as nazi death camp prisoners

he also fails to mention that Haredi refuse military service and as part of their belief system.. don't actually have jobs

 

[badbabysitter]

I'm supposing throwing stones at a woman and slashing her tires.. because they didnt like her clothes... is just another example of the poor hard done by Haredi being attacked

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=254965

 

[renard_ruse]

I still like how renard is failing to mention spitting on an eight year old girl, calling a woman soldier a slut because she wouldnt sit at the back of the bus, forcing girls out of their public schools and dressing up as nazi death camp prisoners

he also fails to mention that Haredi refuse military service and as part of their belief system.. don't actually have jobs

I like how you fail to mention the secularists spitting on Haredi children first, and the various other harassment that is not mentioned in the mainstream media over there (or here). The media selectively taking individual incidents from one side to make them out to be the aggressors is actually my very point. Its how hate can be whipped up against an identifiable and unpopular minority group.

If you'd like to go point by point I could, but I am not really on this topic this week.

 

[renard_ruse]

I'm supposing throwing stones at a woman and slashing her tires.. because they didnt like her clothes... is just another example of the poor hard done by Haredi being attacked

You know perfectly well (at least I hope) that there is petty violence on both sides. The vulnerable group is necessarily going to be the unpopular minority. This apparently doesn't seem to bother you since they are religious and not femanist enough for you?

 

[badbabysitter]

I like how you fail to mention the secularists spitting on Haredi children first, and the various other harassment that is not mentioned in the mainstream media over there (or here). The media selectively taking individual incidents from one side to make them out to be the aggressors is actually my very point. Its how hate can be whipped up against an identifiable and unpopular minority group.

If you'd like to go point by point I could, but I am not really on this topic this week.

so... one incident of alleged victimization done to the Haredi ( which conveniently has nothing to authenticate) as opposed to years and years of documented and often recorded attacks by the Haredi


as for you going point by point... that's just more bullshit from you.. you run away with your tail between your legs every time some one actually calls on you to back up your claims

 

[badbabysitter]

You know perfectly well (at least I hope) that there is petty violence on both sides. The vulnerable group is necessarily going to be the unpopular minority. This apparently doesn't seem to bother you since they are religious and not femanist enough for you?

what violence has been perpetrated to the haredi? I've seen alleged reports.. but no one has actually been charged.. in fact, no one outside of the Haredi has ever witnessed one of these attacks

 

[renard_ruse]

so... one incident of alleged victimization done to the Haredi ( which conveniently has nothing to authenticate) as opposed to years and years of documented and often recorded attacks by the Haredi

Its not one incident. There are documented and recorded attacks against them. What matters most, however, is that many people wish to get rid of them by forcing them to give up their faith and lifestyle.

as for you going point by point... that's just more bullshit from you.. you run away with your tail between your legs every time some one actually calls on you to back up your claims

I kick your ass every time YOU blather your anti-renard non-sense. I even exposed you as Cade. You're still pissed about that one, eh?

 

[renard_ruse]

what violence has been perpetrated to the haredi? I've seen alleged reports.. but no one has actually been charged.. in fact, no one outside of the Haredi has ever witnessed one of these attacks

You scour Israeli news reports daily? Give it up, dude, nobody believes that.

 

[badbabysitter]

Its not one incident. There are documented and recorded attacks against them. What matters most, however, is that many people wish to get rid of them by forcing them to give up their faith and lifestyle.



I kick your ass every time YOU blather your anti-renard non-sense. I even exposed you as Cade. You're still pissed about that one, eh?

then show me these events.. I FUCKING DARE YOU....put up or shut up

the closest you get to kicking my ass,, is spanking off to it thinking about it... good lord man.. I think it's time to post a " greatest hits" thread about you


and me as Cade? you repeated everything people have told you.. that doesnt make me Cade, or Rory, or anyone... it makes you an idiot

 

[badbabysitter]

You scour Israeli news reports daily? Give it up, dude, nobody believes that.

it's called google.. it's on this thing called ... hmmm..don't know if i'm saying this right.. the inter-web?

i hear it's a series of tubes

 

[renard_ruse]

then show me these events.. I FUCKING DARE YOU....put up or shut up

the closest you get to kicking my ass,, is spanking off to it thinking about it... good lord man.. I think it's time to post a " greatest hits" thread about you


and me as Cade? you repeated everything people have told you.. that doesnt make me Cade, or Rory, or anyone... it makes you an idiot

Right, I'm supposed to spend my evening doing research to prove undeniable facts to you? What makes you think you are that important to me? Seriously, I have 1,000 things I would rather do then waste my time "proving" the obvious to you. I hate to break it to you, but you just aren't that important to me.

I suggest getting a puppy so you don't feel so lonely rather than expecting people on the internet to validate your pathetic existence.

 

[badbabysitter]

http://nurkose.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/chickens.jpg.

fixed it for you


put up or shut up

 

[renard_ruse]

I'll get some info on it, on my timeframe, when I feel like it.

 

[badbabysitter]

Right, I'm supposed to spend my evening doing research to prove undeniable facts to you? What makes you think you are that important to me? Seriously, I have 1,000 things I would rather do then waste my time "proving" the obvious to you. I hate to break it to you, but you just aren't that important to me.

I suggest getting a puppy so you don't feel so lonely rather than expecting people on the internet to validate your pathetic existence.

actually let me adress this

here's how debate works.. when someone makes a claim..and then someone calls them on it..that first person has to support what they say with fact


you don't seem to understand that part...because you never support your claims

in closing.. put up or shut up

 

[badbabysitter]

I'll get some info on it, on my timeframe, when I feel like it.

translation = you got nothing

 

[renard_ruse]

actually let me adress this

here's how debate works.. when someone makes a claim..and then someone calls them on it..that first person has to support what they say with fact


you don't seem to understand that part...because you never support your claims

in closing.. put up or shut up

My threads are actually not "debates." They are not intended to be "debates." They are simply statements of fact that hopefully someone who is unaware of the subject may stumble across and go "whoa, I didn't know that, thanks for passing on this [disturbing, interesting, stimulating, whatever] information."

You always come into them with a bunch of contrarian jibberish with no backing for your counterclaims and expect me to spend a bunch of time validating you by arguing with you. In short, my claims are already supported in the original post or a few follow on posts. I don't need to spend time arguing hogwash with you.

 

[badbabysitter]

My threads are actually not "debates." They are not intended to be "debates." They are simply statements of fact that hopefully someone who is unaware of the subject may stumble across and go "whoa, I didn't know that, thanks for passing on this [disturbing, interesting, stimulating, whatever] information."

You always come into them with a bunch of contrarian jibberish with no backing for your counterclaims and expect me to spend a bunch of time validating you by arguing with you. In short, my claims are already supported in the original post or a few follow on posts. I don't need to spend time arguing hogwash with you.

true.. your threads are not debates... you make a ridiculous claim.. present absolutely nothing to support it.. and when people disagree with you.. you run away

you are right.. it's pretty simple


contrarian jibberish? sooooooooooooo..because I actually link documented evidence to support what I say.. and you spout opinion..that's jibberish?

you don't support your claims.. it's against your religon..for example.. I have called on you to support your original post in THIS thread and you still havent been able to

 

[KingOrfeo]

I suggest getting a puppy so you don't feel so lonely rather than expecting people on the internet to validate your pathetic existence.

Oh, come on, that's always a glass-houses thing around here!

 

[badbabysitter]

still waiting for that documentation renard was going to provide

 

[BotanyBoy]

still waiting for that documentation renard was going to provide

Holy fucking shit 6 months? Cold blooded