Incest on TV

[PennLady]

I wondered when someone would write an article about this...

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/20/why_is_incest_all_over_prime_time/

 

[3113]

I wondered when someone would write an article about this...

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/20/why_is_incest_all_over_prime_time/

I just want to know about this viral video--is it on the level or a fake? I mean, why would parents agree to let their kids kiss them like that?

 

[estragon]

Sex sells. Or, vice is nice, but incest is best.

 

[PennLady]

I just want to know about this viral video--is it on the level or a fake? I mean, why would parents agree to let their kids kiss them like that?

You know, I had a similar thought. I didn't attempt to find the video or anything, so I can't say from viewing, but that was my reaction. I'd never participate in something like that and I can't imagine why a school would do it in the first place.

 

[D_Lynn]

You know, I had a similar thought. I didn't attempt to find the video or anything, so I can't say from viewing, but that was my reaction. I'd never participate in something like that and I can't imagine why a school would do it in the first place.

Just follow the link and it takes you to another article and the video. I couldn't watch it. I've read incest; I've even written an incest story, but this was so...I can't find the words. Mostly because the mothers were fully aware of what they were doing and clearly coming on to their own sons, who had NO IDEA what was happening to them. In a gym. At a high school pep rally. What sort of school would endorse this?

I was wondering the same thing, by the way. How long before someone wrote an article about the insurgence of incest. It has managed to creep into the mainstream without much fanfare or fuss. But then again, so has bigamy, fetish, BDSM, homosexuality, and transgender. I'm consistently amazed by how often S/M is referred to in movies.

Not that I'm complaining about these themes cropping up everywhere. I think to some degree it helps to widen people's perspectives. And the idealist in me hopes that it leads to acceptance.

I'm all for acceptance.

 

[PennLady]

Just follow the link and it takes you to another article and the video. I couldn't watch it. I've read incest; I've even written an incest story, but this was so...I can't find the words. Mostly because the mothers were fully aware of what they were doing and clearly coming on to their own sons, who had NO IDEA what was happening to them. In a gym. At a high school pep rally. What sort of school would endorse this?

No, I'll skip the video, thanks. Gross. And I completely agree with all of those questions. What Mom thinks this is a good idea? What school would think this wouldn't get out and cause them problems?

I can only think that the difference is the fantasy aspect that you'd write or read in a story, and then this was real. There are reasons incest is frowned up, and good ones at that. Still, there are all kinds of things in fantasy that we don't want in real life. "Dexter" (not a show I watch) is about a serial killer; I'm sure we don't all want to be one, but watching a show about one is different.

I was wondering the same thing, by the way. How long before someone wrote an article about the insurgence of incest. It has managed to creep into the mainstream without much fanfare or fuss. But then again, so has bigamy, fetish, BDSM, homosexuality, and transgender. I'm consistently amazed by how often S/M is referred to in movies.

Not that I'm complaining about these themes cropping up everywhere. I think to some degree it helps to widen people's perspectives. And the idealist in me hopes that it leads to acceptance.

I'm all for acceptance.

As for the incest, I watch "Game of Thrones," and I'm sure most of us that have taken some history class know that incest was common to certain degrees. Mostly cousins in the European monarchies that I know of, but when you go back to someone like Cleopatra, there's lots of sibling stuff going on. So in GOT, there's an "oooh" factor but it's believable, and later in the series (I'm on the 5th book) it has implications.

On "Boardwalk Empire," I think it's understandable because the woman, Gillian, had her child when she was only 12 or 13, so she was still a child and in my mind, got quite screwed up in her head. I always thought she treated her son more as a toy than a person in many ways. Anyway, I guess that's a long way of saying that in these shows, the incest seems to serve a purpose and inform characters and their actions; it's not just there for titillation.

 

[D_Lynn]

As for the incest, I watch "Game of Thrones," and I'm sure most of us that have taken some history class know that incest was common to certain degrees. Mostly cousins in the European monarchies that I know of, but when you go back to someone like Cleopatra, there's lots of sibling stuff going on. So in GOT, there's an "oooh" factor but it's believable, and later in the series (I'm on the 5th book) it has implications.

I'm a Game of Thrones fan, myself. I am slooooowly reading the first book. Part of me doesn't want to get ahead of the series. I already figured there was a reason behind the incest. Especially since there seems to be a judgment about it early on. The history of Targaryan incest leading to a mad king, and consequently the end of their long rein. Joffrey's extreme character weaknesses. The manifestations of incest are almost cliche early on.

Historical references to incest are certainly easier to justify by Hollywood. What impresses me is the more modern references to it. Risky. And I've read it in numerous mainstream fictional novels.

But all this makes sense to me. Having written an incest story on here, and received NUMEROUS emails outlining personal accounts of incest, it is far more common than I realized. So it makes perfect sense that it should, and will, creep into mass media.

I saw a documentary on the topic of incest the other day. I can't remember which channel it was on and I missed the beginning of it. It was interesting, though.

 

[jomar]

wonder if any spit was swapped or if it was lips only...though if a mom puts her son's hand on her ass...

 

[3113]

Not Quite Accepting

Not that I'm complaining about these themes cropping up everywhere. I think to some degree it helps to widen people's perspectives. And the idealist in me hopes that it leads to acceptance.

I'm all for acceptance.

Well, that's the thing. In most case, I don't think the tv shows or movies are aiming to gain acceptance for these things (homosexuality, perhaps, aside). They use such to titillate and lure in the audience, but more often than not, the message is the same as per-marital sex in horror movies. Doing it leads to death and only the virginal girl survives the monster. For example, in Game of Thrones, your addiction there, the incest is between the really horrible queen and her brother. They're awful, cold-blooded killers, and their off-spring is scary-monsterous. Does this lead to acceptance of incest? In Boardwalk Empire, incest creates one messed up guy who, very Oedipal-ish, has sex with mom, kills dad and then, unable to live with what mom's sexual manipulation and domination of him (which led to the death of his wife), commits suicide. Not the best pro-incest message

Likewise, I've seen a lot of S&M in television shows, usually the cop or procedural type shows and the POV is always that of the outsider (detective or whomever--the one we identify with) wandering into this world as a tourist. Our guy/gal doesn't say, "oh, yeah, I'm part of that lifestyle." Thus, it is almost always the normal vanilla guy/gal, exploring this scary-sexy-taboo world--and usually they're doing so because there's been a murder or some other crime in it, which makes it seem even more sinister.

Our vanilla guy/gal will talk with a Dom or sub who will explain how this strange tribe works like some primitive explaining human sacrifice to a Christian missionary. Our guy/gal will be shocked--or they will be scientifically accepting, but they will not become part of this world. So, instead of implying that anyone could be into BDSM--rather like anyone could be gay and so we should be more accepting of it--the message is still that such sexual fetishes are outré, strange, and unnatural. Also dangerous and filled with criminals.

So, for the most part, these shows and movies don't promote acceptance. They tend, to the contrary, to reinforce the idea that good, god-fearing, normal folk should view those who are into such lifestyles with suspicion. Like the kids having sex in horror movies, they're sinning and doomed.

 

[PennLady]

So, for the most part, these shows and movies don't promote acceptance. They tend, to the contrary, to reinforce the idea that good, god-fearing, normal folk should view those who are into such lifestyles with suspicion. Like the kids having sex in horror movies, they're sinning and doomed.

I'd agree -- at least on incest -- that the goal is not acceptance (which, to me, is good). In Game of Thrones (not trying to spoil anything), I've read ahead, and the previous ruling family engaged in incest, but I don't get the impression that was the reason they were overthrown. But incest is definitely used to rally people against the current king and his family, so apparently not everyone in Westeros supports it.

For the other stuff -- BDSM and etc., I think it just goes to show that the majority of people think, or what TV execs think those people think/want, is the usual two-person couple, generally straight, possibly with kids. It'll take a while for that to change on network TV, if it ever does.

 

[D_Lynn]

I'm not suggesting that in the scheme of things, we're at total acceptance. Not by a long shot. It's a process that starts by bringing to the forefront the awareness that it exists (bondage, SM, incest, open relationships...take your pick).

Before you know it, a popular tv series involving incest spawns a documentary on the topic, or a couple other shows. Eventually, there is a program featuring two very lovable and popular characters involved in an incestual relationship.

I think BD & SM might actually be farther along than we realize. It's very subtle, not the main plot. A mention here or there about cuffing one to the bed, or spanking, or whipping. Most people might gloss over the mention of it. I think because I write it, I'm looking for it. The thing is, because it's being discussed (without shame in most cases), it's becoming more mainstream. Not fully accepted yet, but not totally in the closet, either.

This is the exact argument that radical conservative groups have about these topics in the media. That just the mention of them is a movement toward acceptance of the concept.

And, you're absolutely right, Thirteen...there have been shows highlighting the BDSM-gone-bad theme. But also shows where the lifestyle had no bearing on solving the case and the conflict was caused by the detective's own judgmental blinders - wanting to pin it on the innocent Dom because obviously he must be the killer...I mean, look at all that leather he's wearing.

(Don't mean to offend any law enforcement personnel by that statement.)

 

[TheeGoatPig]

(Don't mean to offend any law enforcement personnel by that statement.)

You didn't. But you did offend an architectural designer that likes to wear blinders

 

[R. Richard]

Say what you will, my incest theme stories are my biggest sellers in Smashwords.
(Do mean to offend all scumbags.)