A bit troubled by comments about Penn State

[Missouribiguy]

Hey all,

This IS a GLBT issue I do like to bring up. Being a bisexual man, I do believe in gay rights and I feel that people persecute gay people a bit too much. I mean, Hell, at work (a nursing home of all things), I get people who say that gay people (especially men) is disgusting (by the way, I'm not open about my bisexuality, and I don't want to be, yet). Anyway, while that isn't what bugging me, but it's a good opening for it.

When this Jerry Sandusky/Penn State child molestation news came out, I've been noticing on many news websites, mainly Yahoo's, that the comments being left are really homophobic. Either it's like the wife didn't know her husband was gay for having sex with underage boys, and shit like that.

Well, and let me get this clear out of the way, that is bullshit. True, the boys are the same sex as Sandusky, but, to me anyway, homosexuality and child rape/pedophilia are far apart from each other. Hell, it's like prision rape almost, the guys are other wise straight, but rape for dominance and control. This is basically what pedophilia is, is rape. Yeah, there might be some sick twisted attraction for the kids, but still, it's all about power.

Anyway, that what's up in my neck of the wood. What you all think of this topic?

 

[Missouribiguy]

I think that the majority of people equate Gay sex with all sorts of horrible perverions, including pedophilia. It's unfair, but I think that the Jerry Sandusky discussions in chat rooms, et cetera, are representative of what the AverageUninformedAmerican (all one word) thinks about us.

In the Sandusky case, I think that the mainstream press itself is doing a fairly good job of describing the acts in question as Pedophilia and downplaying the fact that it is same sex misconduct. Obviously there are many pedophiliacs who prey on little girls, too.

Sandusky is big news because 1. He had a Super Macho job. 2. His Employers, Penn State and the Second Mile foundation are super high profile entities, and newsworthy in and of themselves, 3. He betrayed the trust invested in him to prey on the weak, and 4 . He gave the media, which has never had a good relationship with Paterno, the fawning stories aside, a chance to bring down another minor Deity who has feet of clay.

1. and 4. are the important factors. If Sandusky had been a businessman trustee on the charity's board, or a professor of economics at PSU, he would have been arrested, convicted and imprisoned way back in 1998 and no one would have ever even raised an eyebrow outside of State College.

I know one thing, I get sick about hearing about it so much. But, I think the guy himself is scum. Even if he didn't molest/rape the boys, he just makes my skin crawl.

 

[klippert]

Hey all,

This IS a GLBT issue I do like to bring up. Being a bisexual man, I do believe in gay rights and I feel that people persecute gay people a bit too much. I mean, Hell, at work (a nursing home of all things), I get people who say that gay people (especially men) is disgusting (by the way, I'm not open about my bisexuality, and I don't want to be, yet). Anyway, while that isn't what bugging me, but it's a good opening for it.

When this Jerry Sandusky/Penn State child molestation news came out, I've been noticing on many news websites, mainly Yahoo's, that the comments being left are really homophobic. Either it's like the wife didn't know her husband was gay for having sex with underage boys, and shit like that.

Well, and let me get this clear out of the way, that is bullshit. True, the boys are the same sex as Sandusky, but, to me anyway, homosexuality and child rape/pedophilia are far apart from each other. Hell, it's like prision rape almost, the guys are other wise straight, but rape for dominance and control. This is basically what pedophilia is, is rape. Yeah, there might be some sick twisted attraction for the kids, but still, it's all about power.

Anyway, that what's up in my neck of the wood. What you all think of this topic?

Im troubled by how people are worried about any comment on an article or someone loses control when another on lit makes a provocative comment,
the Last I checked, I still live in a country that affords 'Freedom of Speech'. Gay, straight, transmogrified it doesn't matter......Sandusky is the worst kind of predator..... It doesn't matter what he did or where he worked.....he's the type of animal that should be eradicated. What this animal did is completely unacceptable in civil society.
I guess N.A.M.B.L, and the safe school tsar would mind much

 

[Big Lebowski]

Enlightened people know that gay and pedophilia are totally separated.

Sandusky is not gay, he's a child molester/monster

Unfortunately too many unenlightened people out there

 

[Somehowyou]

He is accused of being a homosexula child molester. The homosexual thing is not the issue. it is the child moestation. It is the same thing they say about gay scoutmasters. They are gay not pedophiles. If Sanduskey were just gay we would not have a problem.

What make me sick is the following: They got the guy. now, if he is guilty, lock him up and throw away the key. Why punish the football team and everyone else. All this talk of deemphisizing football and forfiting the season is nonesense. All this talk about the red haired coach Mike something or another...He will be the guy to testify and put Sandusky behing bars. Watching the news coverage sometimes you think Mike and Paterno were the ones molesting the children. Prosecute the guy and lets move on. The charity and the football team are not guilty

 

[Safe_Bet]

He is accused of being a homosexula child molester. The homosexual thing is not the issue. it is the child moestation. It is the same thing they say about gay scoutmasters. They are gay not pedophiles. If Sanduskey were just gay we would not have a problem.

What make me sick is the following: They got the guy. now, if he is guilty, lock him up and throw away the key. Why punish the football team and everyone else. All this talk of deemphisizing football and forfiting the season is nonesense. All this talk about the red haired coach Mike something or another...He will be the guy to testify and put Sandusky behing bars. Watching the news coverage sometimes you think Mike and Paterno were the ones molesting the children. Prosecute the guy and lets move on. The charity and the football team are not guilty

Wrong answer, Bucky!

Virtually ALL pedophilic crimes are not gender specific. They are crimes of dominance and control. The sex of the victim RARELY makes a difference. (which is why it's believed that most pedophilic penetrations are from the back - they don't want to see the child's face.)

There also is NO doubt that the entire Penn State football program, including Paterno, were at least tacitly implicit in covering up Sandusky's crimes.

So blow your "poor PapaJoe" out your ass, dude. The assholes got off easier then they should have!

 

[PressNightly]

Virtually ALL pedophilic crimes are not gender specific.

I would like to concur with SafeBet and expand a bit:

I am a male survivor of sexual abuse. Male abusers of male children are by and large not homosexual. The vast majority actually identify themselves as heterosexual in their adult relationships. It has been well documented that most male to male pedophiles state that they are atracted to boys specifically because they lack many of the physical gender indentifiers. In most cases of sexual abuse against boys the abuser will lose interest once the boy enters puberty.

According to the American Psychiatric Institute pedophelia is a sexual orientation/disorder all its own, and a large number of pedophiles will prey on targets of opportunity regardless of gender. The primary goal of a pedophile is either to assert power or dominance over their victim because they themselves feel impotent or inept, or to seek out a sexual relationship in which they feel they maintain a level of comfort (ie: they feel anxious or threatened in sexual relationships with other adults).

Edit:

The charity and the football team are not guilty

It seems to me from all the reading that I have done that quite a few people knew what was going on and chose to keep it secret for a variety of reasons. As someone who was both victimized by the catholic church and as someone who suffered abuse from a sibling who was raped by a catholic priest, I have to say that if there was a single person in the orginazations hierarchy who knew what was happening and failed to blow the whistle, then the entire organization is at fault. Childhood sexual abuse left untreated is FATAL. MAKE NO MISTAKE. THESE WOUNDS NEVER HEAL! There can be no margin for error, if they covered it up once then they are at risk of doing the same thing again.

 

[none2_none2]

Childhood sexual abuse left untreated is FATAL. MAKE NO MISTAKE. THESE WOUNDS NEVER HEAL!

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your fatalistic view. Both my younger sisters were abused by their step-dad with their own mom's knowledge and possile participation. They both went on to have happy lives -- away from their step-dad and mother of course.

That doesn't mean that it is ok to abuse children at all. Nevertheless, neither should one assume that sexual abuse is fatal. Some of it has to do with the personalities involved. Fatal childhood abuse should be put in perspective. There are children who are tortured, maimed, and/or actually killed. That is fatal. For instance, in our state we had a man (ex con) who physically raped a 14 year old girl. He killed her, and then burnt her body beyond recognition. That is what I call fatal.

For myself I wasn't quite sexually abused as my dad was uber straight. However, the kinds and level of abuse that there was led me down path of hatred for him that lasted decades. It is my nature to "remember" things in great detail. I think that can be a negative when it comes to forgiveness.

People make forgiveness out to be so simple. It isn't. The ease with which someone can do so varies from person to person. Still it is what all should strive for -- not necessarily because the other person deserves it, but for your own sanity. Holding on to hate takes its greatest toll on yourself -- not the person you hate. I could easily go back to that position of hatred, but I don't let myself do so. To get away from that hole I had dug took a long time, but it was essential.

I should also say that my partner could be considered a victim too, but he just doesn't view it that way. I should also add that of all the childhood sexually abused adults I know, I don't know any that went on to repeat the same offenses.

If you really are troubled by what happened to you, then by all means seek out whatever you need to deal with it. There is no shame in that. For myself, counseling really wasn't worth it. I simply had to get to the level of maturity where I realized I had to stop my negative thinking.

In the case of Sandusky, I think we have a very mentally sick individual. My personal feeling is I believe he doesn't realize that HE is an adult. I think he thinks he is their age, and reliving sexual exerimentation. Regardless, he is a very sick man. I think he needs to be in a mental institution for the rest of his life. Anybody who goes on national TV and cannot fathom what he has done is obviously a very disturbed individual. Prison may keep him off the streets, but he needs a mental institution.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your fatalistic view. Both my younger sisters were abused by their step-dad with their own mom's knowledge and possile participation. They both went on to have happy lives -- away from their step-dad and mother of course.

That doesn't mean that it is ok to abuse children at all. Nevertheless, neither should one assume that sexual abuse is fatal. Some of it has to do with the personalities involved. Fatal childhood abuse should be put in perspective. There are children who are tortured, maimed, and/or actually killed. That is fatal. For instance, in our state we had a man (ex con) who physically raped a 14 year old girl. He killed her, and then burnt her body beyond recognition. That is what I call fatal.

For myself I wasn't quite sexually abused as my dad was uber straight. However, the kinds and level of abuse that there was led me down path of hatred for him that lasted decades. It is my nature to "remember" things in great detail. I think that can be a negative when it comes to forgiveness.

People make forgiveness out to be so simple. It isn't. The ease with which someone can do so varies from person to person. Still it is what all should strive for -- not necessarily because the other person deserves it, but for your own sanity. Holding on to hate takes its greatest toll on yourself -- not the person you hate. I could easily go back to that position of hatred, but I don't let myself do so. To get away from that hole I had dug took a long time, but it was essential.

I should also say that my partner could be considered a victim too, but he just doesn't view it that way. I should also add that of all the childhood sexually abused adults I know, I don't know any that went on to repeat the same offenses.

If you really are troubled by what happened to you, then by all means seek out whatever you need to deal with it. There is no shame in that. For myself, counseling really wasn't worth it. I simply had to get to the level of maturity where I realized I had to stop my negative thinking.

In the case of Sandusky, I think we have a very mentally sick individual. My personal feeling is I believe he doesn't realize that HE is an adult. I think he thinks he is their age, and reliving sexual exerimentation. Regardless, he is a very sick man. I think he needs to be in a mental institution for the rest of his life. Anybody who goes on national TV and cannot fathom what he has done is obviously a very disturbed individual. Prison may keep him off the streets, but he needs a mental institution.

Jesus, dude! You obviously don't know shit, so don't you dare criticize the opinions of somebody whose actually been through it.

Child abuse and rape IS fatal if untreated. If it doesn't kill you physically, by the perp or later through suicide, it certainly kills your soul and the person you COULD have been!

Also treatment doesn't necessarily mean counseling or seeing a shrink. In my case the best treatment was the closure of finally seeing the motherfucker thrown in prison.

BTW, there's nothing "fatalistic" about either of those things. They don't represent "victim hood" either. They represent facts and justice.

 

[Wyldfire]

Child abuse is child abuse. The fact it was same sex isn't the issue. Trust me I know that it's about control, she made sure I understood that.

Yes the football team and the school need to be held accountable if reports that they knew about it and did nothing are true. The entire school staff that knew need to be tried for abetting. Any players that knew and did nothing need to be tried as well.

 

[Somehowyou]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footba...grand-jury-he-8216-knew-ina?urn=ncaaf-wp11597

This just came out today. Mike McQueery heard skin slapping in the shower and didn't see the act. He reported it. He should get his job back.
Enclosed in the article was what was said in court.

Penn State has cleaned house. Now why don't they prosecute who was guilty and stop looking for scape goats? Hang Sandusky - he is the molester. They said that Paterno, McQueary did what was require by law. I think it is enough to bag Paterno and mybe the administrators but I am trying to find out why they do not reinstate McQueary? He is a scape goat.

 

[Somehowyou]

In the case of Sandusky, I think we have a very mentally sick individual. My personal feeling is I believe he doesn't realize that HE is an adult. I think he thinks he is their age, and reliving sexual exerimentation. Regardless, he is a very sick man. I think he needs to be in a mental institution for the rest of his life. Anybody who goes on national TV and cannot fathom what he has done is obviously a very disturbed individual. Prison may keep him off the streets, but he needs a mental institution.

He is out to save his ass I am sure.

 

[Safe_Bet]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footba...grand-jury-he-8216-knew-ina?urn=ncaaf-wp11597

This just came out today. Mike McQueery heard skin slapping in the shower and didn't see the act. He reported it. He should get his job back.
Enclosed in the article was what was said in court.

Penn State has cleaned house. Now why don't they prosecute who was guilty and stop looking for scape goats? Hang Sandusky - he is the molester. They said that Paterno, McQueary did what was require by law. I think it is enough to bag Paterno and mybe the administrators but I am trying to find out why they do not reinstate McQueary? He is a scape goat.

FFS, dude! Get some reading comprehension, will ya? He DID see the act. He went into the shower BECAUSE of the noise.

"I told them that I saw Jerry in the showers with a young boy and that what I had seen was extremely sexual and over the lines and it was wrong," McQueary said. "I would have described that it was extremely sexual and I thought that some kind of intercourse was going on."


On top of that he didn't report anything to anybody until several days later cuz he didn't want to disturb their weekend"???? Seriously???? I won't even mention him taking 10 freakin days to report it to the administrator.

NOW, you want some asshole who watched a CHILD being raped and didn't immediately call the cops to be reinstated? Fuck! You are as disgusting as he is!!!

 

[boredVAwife]

My question is why did he not kick the shit out of Sandusky when he saw it? In my mind he is close to being as guilty himself. How do you NOT react when you see that. The kid was like 10 years old for crying out loud. He left and went and called his dad. His dad should have told him to grow a pair and go grab the pedo by his neck and drag him to the cops.

 

[Somehowyou]

My question is why did he not kick the shit out of Sandusky when he saw it? In my mind he is close to being as guilty himself. How do you NOT react when you see that. The kid was like 10 years old for crying out loud. He left and went and called his dad. His dad should have told him to grow a pair and go grab the pedo by his neck and drag him to the cops.

He didn't see it. Did you read his testimony. He wasn't sure.

It is very easy to sit around and talk tough but when you are in the situation What would you have done?

 

[boredVAwife]

He didn't see it. Did you read his testimony. He wasn't sure.

It is very easy to sit around and talk tough but when you are in the situation What would you have done?

Have you lost your mind? He saw Sandusky's arms around the CHILD'S waist and they were naked. What the hell do you think he thought? I have no doubt at all in my mind how I would have reacted and if you have a question as to how you would react seeing a 10 year old CHILD being molested then that is your issue to deal with.

 

[Somehowyou]

Haave you lost your mind? He saw Sandusky's arms around the CHILD'S waist and they were naked. What the hell do you think he thought? I have no doubt at all in my mind how I would have reacted and if you have a question as to how you would react seeing a 10 year old CHILD being molested then that is your issue to deal with.

And he reported it. Would you have kicked his ass? Sandusky would have popped you like a zit in the mirror

But the fact is that he reported it and he is testifying in court against him.

I would like to think that I would have jumped in and demanded to know what is going on. He heard something he saw a arm on a waist. He thought something was wrong.

You talk tough.

 

[boredVAwife]

And he reported it. Would you have kicked his ass? Sandusky would have popped you like a zit in the mirror

But the fact is that he reported it and he is testifying in court against him.

I would like to think that I would have jumped in and demanded to know what is going on. He heard something he saw a arm on a waist. He thought something was wrong.

You talk tough.

He reported it. Wow what a hero. Bet that naked child really thinks the fucking world of him for doing that huh? I talk tough? I talk like I am pissed at a pedo child molester because that is what I am feeling. If you want to think it's ok to slink back to your office and call daddy and ask him what to do then go ahead but I sure hope someone somewhere is NOT relying on you to man up for anything at all any time any where. And yeah a man might have kicked my ass but I have been in more than one fight and lost and for the right person or cause I will do it again. But I will fucking try and go down swinging and kicking and not crawl back to my office to call my daddy.

 

[Safe_Bet]

And he reported it. Would you have kicked his ass? Sandusky would have popped you like a zit in the mirror

But the fact is that he reported it and he is testifying in court against him.

I would like to think that I would have jumped in and demanded to know what is going on. He heard something he saw a arm on a waist. He thought something was wrong.

You talk tough.

OMG! You are such a nutless wuss!

Of course ANY person with an iota of decency and guts would have stepped in and tried to stop the rape of a CHILD.

If I'd have gotten my ass beaten - GOOD! Even MORE charges against the asshole!

I wa right before. You are every bit as disgusting as that other cowardly fuck who did nothing to save a child.

BTW, are you saying because he wasn't sure that Sandusky's dick was actually buried in the kids ass that it wasn't rape???? Really???

 

[Missouribiguy]

Hey You Two, Don't Turn This Into A Flame War!

 

[Somehowyou]

He reported it. Wow what a hero. Bet that naked child really thinks the fucking world of him for doing that huh? I talk tough? I talk like I am pissed at a pedo child molester because that is what I am feeling. If you want to think it's ok to slink back to your office and call daddy and ask him what to do then go ahead but I sure hope someone somewhere is NOT relying on you to man up for anything at all any time any where. And yeah a man might have kicked my ass but I have been in more than one fight and lost and for the right person or cause I will do it again. But I will fucking try and go down swinging and kicking and not crawl back to my office to call my daddy.

He wasn't positive at the time. He thought something was fishy. He wasn't positive. He was probably in shock. Who could imagine someone can do that? Where there plausable explinations for the sound he thought her heard? He saw a man and boy naked in a public gang-shower in a loocker room? I have seen this before and I did not suspect rape. Did you ever walk away and think you saw something wrong and as you added things up in your head you were pretty sure something was wrong? McQueary didn't see the act. He put 2 and 2 together in the seconds he was walking away. Is McQueary the villian? Or does someone have to pay for this monster so you want more heads?

I even wonder if McQueary's testimony will be enought to convict? Lets see what these shysters say in Sandusky's defense.

You wouldn't of had your ass kicked because you may have walked on by and not known what to do either. Like I say, lots of people talk big until it is there turn to be the hero. You don't know what you would have done because you were not there.

I am wonder when you are going to start your typical name calling like the other thread?

Safe Bet sorry you are on my ignore list. You have been for a long time. Therefore your typical insults and personal attacks can not be seen.

 

[Wyldfire]

He didn't see it. Did you read his testimony. He wasn't sure.

It is very easy to sit around and talk tough but when you are in the situation What would you have done?

If it had happened here in my home state? I'd have drawn the concealed, put a stop to it and maybe let him live for the cops.

 

[boredVAwife]

I DO know what I would have done because I walked into a bathroom of a club that was closed and an asshole was forcing himself onto a woman that was screaming and scratching him. I did not walk away. I did not go call someone to ask what I should do. I jumped right onto his back and did my best to rip his eyeballs out. I got my nose broken from his elbow but I would do it again in a heartbeat. Mcqueary has testified that they were naked and he saw Sandusky with his arms around the child's waist. You would not even do that to your own son in a public facility. He knew what he saw. He simply did not have the courage at that moment to take a stand against a popular figure. He chose to leave and think it over? Gimme a break. He was gutless. Period. Please don't assume you can think you know what I would or would not do. As for my "name calling" I am guessing you are referring to my calling you a half wit. If you react to this situation like the other one did I have a new name for you to cry over. Gutless

 

[boredVAwife]

If it had happened here in my home state? I'd have drawn the concealed, put a stop to it and maybe let him live for the cops.

Thank you.

 

[Safe_Bet]

He wasn't positive at the time. He thought something was fishy. He wasn't positive. He was probably in shock. Who could imagine someone can do that? Where there plausable explinations for the sound he thought her heard? He saw a man and boy naked in a public gang-shower in a loocker room? I have seen this before and I did not suspect rape. Did you ever walk away and think you saw something wrong and as you added things up in your head you were pretty sure something was wrong? McQueary didn't see the act. He put 2 and 2 together in the seconds he was walking away. Is McQueary the villian? Or does someone have to pay for this monster so you want more heads?

I even wonder if McQueary's testimony will be enought to convict? Lets see what these shysters say in Sandusky's defense.

You wouldn't of had your ass kicked because you may have walked on by and not known what to do either. Like I say, lots of people talk big until it is there turn to be the hero. You don't know what you would have done because you were not there.

I am wonder when you are going to start your typical name calling like the other thread?

Safe Bet sorry you are on my ignore list. You have been for a long time. Therefore your typical insults and personal attacks can not be seen.

Meh! You having me on ignore doesn't change the fact that you are just as cowardly and despicable as McQueery. Possibly even more so seeing as how you are so rabidly defending a tacit accessory to child rape.