Advice needed; general questions about designing a good story

[SweetDreemz]

Hello,

I have a few general questions on how to best present a story.

1) I struggle with the line between the reader's desire to "get to the good stuff" vs. taking enough time to flesh out the story. Do you think the readers in EROTICA COUPLINGS will sit through 1000 words before getting to the action? Are there any rules of thumb on this?

2) Do you think it's better to kind of jump into the action and flesh out the story/characters along the way?

3) Some authors describe in detail the appearance of their characters. Do you believe it's better to give a very general description (or very little description) and allow the readers to visualize them as the reader wishes? ie, Sherry was a cute blond with a very slim figure and pretty smile, vs a description of her cup size, haircut, etc. My thinking being the less descriptive, the more people will see her as they like their girls. Some people will see her with big breasts, some with perky small ones, as they prefer.

4) How important is it to describe the protagonist's feelings? Do you believe that adds more, less or equal to the arousal factor than the action does?

 

[PennLady]

It is better to write the story you want to write. Don't worry about what the readers want, you'll never please all of them anyway, because different readers want different things in different categories.

If you write a good story, people -- not all people, but some people -- will read it.

So no, there are no rules of thumb.

I have put up several multi-chapter stories and the sex sometimes doesn't happen until chapter 5 out of 10. No one complains. But those are romances, and that seems to be what romance readers expect and/or want. I've done romances where they have sex on the first date, and that's okay too. I've done shorter stroke stories, and people have liked those as well.

As for character descriptions, I think in general, most people find the laundry list, or wanted list, descriptions pretty boring. I don't even like to write them. But if it fits your story, then it does.

There are no straight-up answers to your questions. About the only "yes" I can give you on anything is that yes, it's a good idea to flesh out your characters even in a stroke story. From what I've read/seen from others, readers like that -- it allows them to empathize or sympathize more with the characters, which makes for a better reading experience.

 

[Compleeter]

I've edited a few stories to date, and read countless more stories and books, so this is more of a personal feeling about how a story should be laid out than any kind of professional opinion.

1.) The important aspect of any story is flow, or how well the story reads. It shouldn't matter if the story is 100 words, 1000 words or 1000 pages, if it flows along properly, the average reader will only want to read the next sentence, the next paragraph, page, etc.

2.) Write the story the way it comes into your mind, as PennLady said, you are never going to please everyone, so try to please yourself.

3.) Reading a story is an exercise in imagination, for the person doing the reading. The more information/story you present, the more ammo you give the reader's imagination. However, with that said, you can certainly give too much information, or write too many words when you are trying to describe something or some one. Decide how complex you want the character or event to become, then use that many words/sentences/paragraphs to describe what you want. You should always give enough of a character description so that the reader is allowed to form a character image in their head.

4.) See above, once again, figure out how much detail you want your readers to know about your story, and write accordingly.

IMO, as a writer, your goal should be to leave the reader wanting more, while at the same time presenting a good story.

 

[bronzeage]

Hello,

I have a few general questions on how to best present a story.

1) I struggle with the line between the reader's desire to "get to the good stuff" vs. taking enough time to flesh out the story. Do you think the readers in EROTICA COUPLINGS will sit through 1000 words before getting to the action? Are there any rules of thumb on this?

2) Do you think it's better to kind of jump into the action and flesh out the story/characters along the way?

3) Some authors describe in detail the appearance of their characters. Do you believe it's better to give a very general description (or very little description) and allow the readers to visualize them as the reader wishes? ie, Sherry was a cute blond with a very slim figure and pretty smile, vs a description of her cup size, haircut, etc. My thinking being the less descriptive, the more people will see her as they like their girls. Some people will see her with big breasts, some with perky small ones, as they prefer.

4) How important is it to describe the protagonist's feelings? Do you believe that adds more, less or equal to the arousal factor than the action does?

She was a cute blonde? What happened to her? Is she still cute?

Describe your characters through the eyes of another character.

The traffic light changed to yellow as Mike reached the corner. He looked to the left for traffic and made a quick right turn. Someone stepped off the curb and he pushed the brake pedal to the floor. A cute blonde fell over his hood and slid to the windshield. Her blue eyes were wide in terror. She put her hands on the glass and tried to rise, but her top snagged on the windshield wiper and tore dress. Her large breasts spilled out and the pinkest nipples Mike had ever seen were pressed flat against the windshield.


Unless it's some kind of fetish story where the character has to fit a particular template, you can leave the description as loose as you like.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... 1) I struggle with the line between the reader's desire to "get to the good stuff" vs. taking enough time to flesh out the story. Do you think the readers in EROTICA COUPLINGS will sit through 1000 words before getting to the action? Are there any rules of thumb on this?
2) Do you think it's better to kind of jump into the action and flesh out the story/characters along the way? ...

Each reader has a personal preference in this aspect. I write, I think, for people like myself who need flesh on a story. Perhaps that is why my novels sell but my short stories don't get decent votes; if you buy a novel you expect a well-set scene.

... 3) Some authors describe in detail the appearance of their characters. Do you believe it's better to give a very general description (or very little description) and allow the readers to visualize them as the reader wishes? ie, Sherry was a cute blond with a very slim figure and pretty smile, vs a description of her cup size, haircut, etc. My thinking being the less descriptive, the more people will see her as they like their girls. Some people will see her with big breasts, some with perky small ones, as they prefer. ...

Again, this is a personal preference, but I HATE to see a story containing (or worse, starting with) a description of a character which reads like a police pathologist's report on a discovered corpse (eg height, weight, vital statistics, colouring, clothing). I always remember the best description of any character I ever read: In came Mrs. Fezziwig, one vast substantial smile (Charles Dickens). Can't you just see her?

... 4) How important is it to describe the protagonist's feelings?

Vital.

 

[bogert]

Totally agree

I totally agree with pennlady.Dont think about the readers.They will never be happy in any way.Just go with your own way of writing.

 

[Anstice]

I always remember the best description of any character I ever read: In came Mrs. Fezziwig, one vast substantial smile (Charles Dickens). Can't you just see her?

@snoopercharmbrights: What work is that from? I like it.

@flapjack1: I agree with the comment about descriptions which resemble a police pathologists report. I have come across several stories that start like that and it is such a huge turn off. As to whether you should cut right to the action or flesh things out, I think as Penn Lady said you have to write for yourself, but I also think you have to give thought to what kind of reader you are trying to attract. One of the most important considerations when writing is determining your audience. My personal opinion is that authors who invest time in their plots and characters attract a more loyal following. If I find an author whose stories I like because of their quality level and originality, I tend to keep an eye on them and follow their later writings. By contrast, stroker stories, generally don't keep me coming back to an authors page. The sex draws me in, but the plot, characters, details, etc., keep me coming back.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

@snoopercharmbrights: What work is that from? I like it. ...

Mr. Fezziwig is the beloved jolly employer in Dickens' "A Christmas Carol." The opposite of Scrooge.

 

[bosombuddies]

1) It's not a question of whether or not readers will be willing to read through a certain amount of story before getting to the action, it's a question of whether or not they are invested enough in your story that they want to get there at all. If you write a thousand words about a guy brushing his teeth, then probably not. If you write a thousand words about a guy pining for his best friend's wife, then you have a much better chance of holding their attention. A sex story is like sex itself; you need to meet the people, get to like them, turn up the heat, get into the action, and build to a climax.

2) You can jump into the action right away, but you need to make sure the reader still has a sense of orientation. The challenge is making us care about a sexual encounter taken out of context. You call it "the action," which is a good way to discuss how sex should impact your story and characters. Think of the action/adventure genre. A gunfight or a car chase is only as exciting as the story motivating it, and an action scene that does not alter a character's status quo or redirect the plot ultimately feels disappointing and meaningless. Unlike with a porn video, in writing you don't have the instant gratification of the visuals to help you. Context becomes everything.

3) The important thing is to describe how the characters see each other. While it's true that beauty is subjective in the cosmic sense, your characters should be real people with specific tastes and preferences. If you are writing a FM story, then we need to know why it is that the man is attracted to the woman, and vice-versa.

4) It depends what you mean by "describing." The point of a protagonist is to provide your readers with lifeline into the story; a character whose desires they can keep track of at all times. The protagonist should never be too mysterious. This doesn't mean you need to actually tell your reader how the protagonist is always feeling, but through the protagonist's words and actions, they should get a clear sense of it. For example, say your protagonist is a woman, whom we know is self-conscious about having small breasts because her jerk of a husband was always making fun of them. As soon as her new lover starts paying attention to her breasts, you need to make us feel how big a deal it is for her.

Anyway, that's all just my opinion, but I hope it gives you some ideas

 

[ManhattanMinx]

Hello,

I have a few general questions on how to best present a story.

1) I struggle with the line between the reader's desire to "get to the good stuff" vs. taking enough time to flesh out the story. Do you think the readers in EROTICA COUPLINGS will sit through 1000 words before getting to the action? Are there any rules of thumb on this?

2) Do you think it's better to kind of jump into the action and flesh out the story/characters along the way?

3) Some authors describe in detail the appearance of their characters. Do you believe it's better to give a very general description (or very little description) and allow the readers to visualize them as the reader wishes? ie, Sherry was a cute blond with a very slim figure and pretty smile, vs a description of her cup size, haircut, etc. My thinking being the less descriptive, the more people will see her as they like their girls. Some people will see her with big breasts, some with perky small ones, as they prefer.

4) How important is it to describe the protagonist's feelings? Do you believe that adds more, less or equal to the arousal factor than the action does?

1) I have not written enough in this genre to speak with authority on when to start the "good stuff," but I do like reading stories that begin with subtle titillation and turn up the heat as they go. Often an erotic word choice early on is enough to rev the motor.

2) If you start with a hook, as close to the action as possible, more readers will read your work to conclusion.

3) One of the secrets to character description is finding the significant detail that fires reader imagination. If you use too little detail, the character exists in a vacuum. If you use too much detail, you take the joy out of reading. Eventually, your intuition will help you strike this balance.

4) The route you take with the protag's feelings depends on the story and your intended audience. For instance, if you're writing about teenage vampires, apparently it helps if you spend pages and pages immersed in female teenage angst. (grin) Regardless of your choices, writing about character feelings should add, not detract from the story. For instance, if you've spent 2,000 words working up to a sex scene, then put on the brakes and spend a huge amount of time exploring the protag's feelings, you might irritate your reader.(One of the secrets to story writing is creating and maintaining a sense of forward movement. If you stop that forward movement, you disrupt story flow--not a good thing.)

This is all opinion of course. There are as many ways to write a story as there are writers.

 

[Etaski]

Hello,

I have a few general questions on how to best present a story.

1) I struggle with the line between the reader's desire to "get to the good stuff" vs. taking enough time to flesh out the story. Do you think the readers in EROTICA COUPLINGS will sit through 1000 words before getting to the action? Are there any rules of thumb on this?

2) Do you think it's better to kind of jump into the action and flesh out the story/characters along the way?

3) Some authors describe in detail the appearance of their characters. Do you believe it's better to give a very general description (or very little description) and allow the readers to visualize them as the reader wishes? ie, Sherry was a cute blond with a very slim figure and pretty smile, vs a description of her cup size, haircut, etc. My thinking being the less descriptive, the more people will see her as they like their girls. Some people will see her with big breasts, some with perky small ones, as they prefer.

4) How important is it to describe the protagonist's feelings? Do you believe that adds more, less or equal to the arousal factor than the action does?

Ooh, fun.

1) Good advice already given, so I mostly echo PennLady: if I am pleased/excited with a story, I know it's going well. I don't think about the readers too much while writing it. Maybe only after, for clarity and balance (where the editing comes in).

2) Well...not good unless the storyteller has a specific purpose for doing it that way. Some movies/TVs shows do that to grab you then flesh it out later, but the effective/memorable ones *did* have a purpose throwing the watcher into chaos first with little-known characters (but they better remedy that quick or they won't keep the watcher interested/invested in the characters).

So...consider if you already have a reason in mind before attempting that literary technique. I don't care much for the feeling that even the author didn't know who the characters were or why I should care about them at the beginning, because they wanted to get to the action and "flesh it out along the way."


3) I really, really hate the "laundry list" slam-bang descriptions, and I couldn't care less about bra/cup size (my favorite breast size description is the viewer imagining what touching/tasting them might be like: smooth overflowing marshmallows or a soft ripe apricot?). We've got FIVE senses, not just vision (which is all those laundry lists are: eyes). Use them all, and even then, it's generally better not to use them all in the same paragraph. Incorporate them into the story/actions so they're there, but not a tick mark on the checklist.


4) If I don't have a sense of the protagonist's motives/reasons for their actions, and what they're feeling/experiencing during the action, and whether or not they are *changed* by the events in the story...then the story is very forgettable.

 

[palisa]

Ooh, fun.

2) Well...not good unless the storyteller has a specific purpose for doing it that way...(but they better remedy that quick or they won't keep the watcher interested/invested in the characters).

3) I really, really hate the "laundry list" slam-bang descriptions, and I couldn't care less about bra/cup size...

4) If I don't have a sense of the protagonist's motives/reasons for their actions, and what they're feeling/experiencing during the action, and whether or not they are *changed* by the events in the story...then the story is very forgettable.

I want to key on Estaski's comments because, according to her profile pic, she's a person of the feminine -- very feminine, may I add? -- persuasion. I had a package last time I checked, so my POV is different.

There are stroke stories and there are character-development stories. So for the second question...getting to the action quickly...which are you writing? Male or female reader, if invested in the story, some prequel to the "action" works best. But some stories don't ask you to get invested -- they just ask you to get horny.

Like Estaski, I hate the laundry lists. I don't care about cock size or cup size, and if I did, I would be on the porn video sites and not here. I'm tired of reading about huge perky boobs (huh?) and cannons the size of Philadelphia. Let me imagine it, unless you have a specific reason for introducing size or shape. There's usually no reason to. And if there is, through the eyes of another character, as has been said.

In #4 is where female and male readers diverge. If you are writing for Harlequin Romances, you cannot get away with underemphasizing feelings. Emotions are the central point of a romance. Guys don't read Harlequin. That's why there's a romance section here. Real men don't venture into that section. OK...humor only.

But erotica has several different target audiences. You can't hit them all in one story.