You realize that America can inflate its way out of debt, right?

[RobDownSouth]

I've never heard you bitch about Microsoft.

"Bitching" is for Republicans. I "make salient points".

In any event, I've never been especially fond of Microsoft, but then I'm a Unix guy myself.

 

[Byron In Exile]

"Bitching" is for Republicans. I "make salient points".

In any event, I've never been especially fond of Microsoft, but then I'm a Unix guy myself.

Okay. Well, then, I must say that I've never seen you make these "salient points" regarding Microsoft, which is one hell of a fuckload more of a monopoly that Standard Oil ever was.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You're correct, but you didn't answer my question. Are monopolies "good for America"? I say emphatically that they are NOT.

Rockefeller's preferred method of expanding his markets was to make competing refiners in new territories an offer they couldn't refuse. If they declined his offer, he'd build a competing refinery and institute predatory pricing that his competitors could not match, and Rockefeller had such deep pockets he could starve his competition out, bankrupting most of them and buying their assets for pennies on the dollar. Once his monopoly in a given area was assured, he would raise prices to ass-rape levels.

Once again: do you believe monopolies are good for America?

Generally speaking monopolies serve America poorly; that said patent rights usually make monopolies of every player.

Rockefeller's 'competitors' were small-fry from the beginning. Their 'refineries' were small capacity stills. In those days trains delivered refined oil products in barrels to towns everywhere. Rockefeller bought up the small-fry to stop them from using Standard Oil barrels. That is, for quality control. It pissed people off to buy kerosene that filled their lamps and homes with soot.

And when they refused to sell he cut their throats with low prices.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Okay. Well, then, I must say that I've never seen you make these "salient points" regarding Microsoft, which is one hell of a fuckload more of a monopoly that Standard Oil ever was.

Really? The only reason Microsoft appears to have a monopoly is because people don't have any desire to learn a different OS/software. I was in no way pressured, coerced or required to buy windows or any other Microsoft software when I built my computer. You and anyone else can do the same, despite that choice the vast majority of people out there will not go build their own computer, even fewer will load said computer with something other than windows.

That is not a monopoly, it's the free market. There is nothing stopping you or anyone from using easily available and in a lot of cases free software that has nothing to do with Microsoft.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

[shrug] It all worked out all right in the New Deal. (Yes, actually, it did. Hoover's America could not have taken on Hitler.)

Literally speaking. If it hadn't been for the "chicken in every pot" attempted strategy, we would have had even FEWER men suitable for World War II.

The draft, at that time, was literally designed to weed out men who were weak from malnourishment. Are you sitting down? THIRTY PERCENT of applicants were rejected, largely because of either complications from malnourishment or syphillis.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Okay. Well, then, I must say that I've never seen you make these "salient points" regarding Microsoft, which is one hell of a fuckload more of a monopoly that Standard Oil ever was.

I'm not sure by what measure you're basing your "one hell of a fuckload more of a monopoly" claim on, but for the record there have been essentially four major monopolies in American history: Standard Oil, US Steel, AT&T and Microsoft. The United States government has gone to court for antitrust provisions against all four.

AT&T and Standard Oil were broken up, their remnants still dominate their respective markets to this day.

US Steel won their antitrust case, they eventually dwindled in market share because they couldn't compete against foreign imports.

Microsoft lost in court and won on appeal, they are less of a threat now than they once were due to the fact that operating systems have just about reached the point of dwindling returns: when was the last time you or your company upgraded their operating system? Microsoft essentially sells operating systems just to new computers nowadays.

Happy now? Now that this irrelevant sidebar of yours has been satisified, why don't you tell us whether or not you believe monopolies are good for America?

 

[RobDownSouth]

Generally speaking monopolies serve America poorly; that said patent rights usually make monopolies of every player.

Thank you for having the courage to admit this. Now, in light of your previous comment, do you still feel monopolies would somehow be of some benefit in today's business environment?

I can't see much of a benefit to permitting monopolies, personally, but I am open to counter-arguments.

 

[Bob Waters]

We were the only manufacturing base left intact.

This statement does not stand upon itself or the facts because you do not examine what would have happened with no inflation.

Plus "exports" are not a zero-sum game, nor a goal to work towards as inflation is a net negative to buying power and hurts the middle class more than any other class because wages always lag cost.

Your economic acumen is severely retarded by your sources which fall prey to the Fallacies of the Seen (Bastiat, Mises, Rothbard, Hazlitt).

Read Mommsen of the result of Roman inflations.

This in spades. We have MUCH more in common with Wiemar Germany at this moment than with 1946 America.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

This in spades. We have MUCH more in common with Wiemar Germany at this moment than with 1946 America.

Hitler....there I said it, thread is over.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

This in spades. We have MUCH more in common with Wiemar Germany at this moment than with 1946 America.

That's madness. What do we have in common with Weimar Germany, aside from the presence of Germans in America?

 

[RobDownSouth]

.... inflation is a net negative to buying power and hurts the middle class more than any other class because wages always lag cost.

Another glib generalization from a glibertarian.

 

[HAL_9000]

Funny. I make a comment about the comparisons between the 90's Swedish market meltdown/ housing price collapse ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23krona.html ) and get the standard response of "apples and oranges", since Sweden was/is merely a microcosm of the behemoth American Economy. (to paraphrase)

However, comparing the 1933 German economy to the modern-day American economy is fine.

 

[Peregrinator]

Hitler....there I said it, thread is over.

Hey, Mike Godwin finally joined Lit.

 

[kotori]

I'm not sure by what measure you're basing your "one hell of a fuckload more of a monopoly" claim on, but for the record there have been essentially four major monopolies in American history: Standard Oil, US Steel, AT&T and Microsoft. The United States government has gone to court for antitrust provisions against all four.

AT&T and Standard Oil were broken up, their remnants still dominate their respective markets to this day.

US Steel won their antitrust case, they eventually dwindled in market share because they couldn't compete against foreign imports.

Microsoft lost in court and won on appeal, they are less of a threat now than they once were due to the fact that operating systems have just about reached the point of dwindling returns: when was the last time you or your company upgraded their operating system? Microsoft essentially sells operating systems just to new computers nowadays.

Happy now? Now that this irrelevant sidebar of yours has been satisified, why don't you tell us whether or not you believe monopolies are good for America?

When I was growing up (and I'm sure almost all of my generation with concur), AT&T was "the" telephone company. Like "the" electric or gas company: there was no option: it was a public utility, though in private hands. I'm not sure that was a terrible thing. Of course, there was no competition, but it was tightly regulated.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thank you for having the courage to admit this. Now, in light of your previous comment, do you still feel monopolies would somehow be of some benefit in today's business environment?

I can't see much of a benefit to permitting monopolies, personally, but I am open to counter-arguments.

Courage has nuthin to do with it, monopolies exist. Copyrights and patents ordain monopolies. Legislation ordains monopolies.

 

[great lover]

I've never heard you bitch about Microsoft.

Is microsoft a monopoly? I believe APple is the #1 company when it comes to market share!

 

[richard_daily]

Hitler....there I said it, thread is over.

You're not much for history, are you?

 

[richard_daily]

That's madness. What do we have in common with Weimar Germany, aside from the presence of Germans in America?

Let see:

Cool helmets? Nope.

Rampant inflation? Nope

Assassination attempts? busybody is still posting.

General Strike? Not according to fox news.

The Reichstag is burning? Nah, that's just your crotch.

 

[LadyFairfax]

Let see:

Cool helmets? Nope.

Have you seen the pepper spray cops?

Rampant inflation? Nope

Buy any Bread since 2009?

Assassination attempts? busybody is still posting.

Never mind those bullets striking the White house windows.

General Strike? Not according to fox news.

Occupy where?

The Reichstag is burning? Nah, that's just your crotch.

1 for 5 better than your usual accuracy.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Let see:

Cool helmets? Nope.

Rampant inflation? Nope

Assassination attempts? busybody is still posting.

General Strike? Not according to fox news.

The Reichstag is burning? Nah, that's just your crotch.

America is waiting for Hitler. We're longing for a Jesus to throw chairs and push over tables in the Temple.

 

[richard_daily]

1 for 5 better than your usual accuracy.

You're claiming that the u.s.has rampant inflation, right now?

If so, you're thick.

I can buy bread for .99... about what it cost a few years ago. Whole wheat, fresh baked for about 2.50, maybe up .25 in 3 years.



Also, if you think the cops these days have cool helmets, you're even thicker.

And some "assassination attempt", the guy shooting didn't even realize the president wasn't home.

I thought all the OWS people didn't have jobs? How could that be considered a general strike????


That's the best that you've got?

 

[LadyFairfax]

That's the best that you've got?

You said your bread went up to $2.50, up $0.25 and do not consider 11% to be inflation?

That's the best you've got?

 

[richard_daily]

1 for 5 better than your usual accuracy.

You said your bread went up to $2.50, up $0.25 and do not consider 11% to be inflation?

That's the best you've got?

over four years, what does that work out to?

Let me know when you figure it out.

 

[richard_daily]

You said your bread went up to $2.50, up $0.25 and do not consider 11% to be inflation?

That's the best you've got?

Are you attempting to claim that 11% inflation in bread costs (food prices have risen faster than just about anything else) over 3 or 4 year is comparable to the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic?

Please let me know.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Since 1967 prices have increased about 700% for most things. But a few things have gone thru the roof.

In 1967 my 1st semester of college cost me $6 per credit hour or about $90 for 15 hours. The same college in 2011 costs $100 per credit hour or $1500 for 15 hours of courses. Thats about 1675% increase.

Wazz different? In 1967 the college president made about 20K per year, and the instructors were mostly adjuncts in it for a little mad money. In 2011 the president makes around 500K, and the last one to retire took home 1/2 that in retirement plus a million plus in sweetners.

Military pay: In 1968 I made $95 per month as a private no class. Today they start around $1500 per month. Or 1569% more. Note: NCO pay hasnt kept pace with inflation.