What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[4est_4est_Gump]

Vette thinks that it the federal government laid off 2 million workers, removing 2 million consumers from the economy and crushing consumer demand, that businesses would start magically creating jobs. They'd literally go out and hire more workers and build more factories due to the fact that people are buying a lot less of their stuff.

And for some dumb reason that Vette can't even explain to himself, when the government hires a Marine, that Marine not only doesn't count as having a job but he actually nets a negative job (wtf?).

And also he just said that the private sector is the source of all government revenue... Meaning in his whacked-out world military members do not have taxable income or property taxes. And they magically do not pay sales tax. Nevermind that Vette was a Marine and paid income tax the whole time. It suddenly never happened.

First off, they'll have the magic million-man math multipliers of unemployment, food stamps, and gawd knows what else.



Secondly, they will be motivated to find, maybe even create work...

Thirdly, the rest of us would not have to pay so much protection money to the political mob and that money will be added to the economy, where you like it added, at the bottom.

You always shoot for the seen, but I'll bet you pride yourself on being a nuanced guy, not a black and white thinker like ol' Vetteman here who has sacrificed more for his country than you ever will...

I'm sorry I created a disturbance in your Communist Party...

 

[unregistered]

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You really can't think of any ways that the government is more than a dead weight on the economy? Is your understanding of economics really that limited?

By the way Mr. Vette, I have a business degree and own my own small business. And I started my MBA last month. If you would like assistance thinking of ways that the government is (or can be) a boon to the economy just let me know. We can work together to come up with a nice long list okay?

Having a business degree in no way shape or form gives you more than a rudimentary review of some economic truisms, it does not indicate that you have delved deeply into either Sociology or the dismal art...

Most of us with degrees have had the same training, e.g., myself, from my days at DeVry and Accounting to Macroeconomics to 400-level business courses for my CS degree at a university.

I did not begin studying actual economics until I reread Federalist and deTocqueville after 9-11 with a questioning mind on what was liberty which led me away from the Democrat Party and its Socialist thinking to the Libertarian Party and the study of actual real Liberals at a time when they were the champions of Life, Liberty and Property, that Capitalism which you so fucking hate...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Milton Friedman called it "one of the most, if not the most, anti black laws on the statute books."

It is so true that in their seen altruism to assist, their unseen actions are the most damaging to those they wish to help...

Of course, if you question method or outcome, you are greedy, evil, how did Perry put it? oh yeah, HEARTLESS!

 

[unregistered]

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Milton and Rose Friedman have all the facts on pages 237-238 of their book, Free To Choose, Harcourt Brace, NY.

"We know that the moment of greatest danger to a society is when it comes near realizing its most cherished dreams."
Eric Hoffer

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

This morning's timely gem...

But he also seemed to spend time in those years mulling over how to help draw people to the advantages of working even a low-paying job rather than none. “A radio host in Omaha asked me, ‘What do you say to a young man who can go out and make a lot of money selling drugs and doesn’t want your $4.75-an-hour job at Godfather’s?’” Cain told the Omaha World-Herald in 1996. “My response is this: There are two ways you can live your life — looking in front of you or looking over your shoulder. Show me some old drug dealers. Show me some old gang members. You decide whether you want to get old and look forward to the rest of your life, or whether you want to look behind you all the time and never see old.”

For years, Cain maintained a fight against minimum-wage hikes. He was not successful: The minimum wage went from $4.25 in 1994 to $5.15 in 1997. But he did succeed in inserting some conditions. “Those provisions included hard-fought wins to allow employers to credit more tips toward the minimum wage and instituted a federal opportunity wage for teen employees,” reported Restaurants USA. “The same law also made sure restaurants that get billed by the Internal Revenue Service for FICA taxes on previously unreported tips are eligible for a federal income-tax credit for these FICA taxes.”

For Cain, it was an issue he had felt passionately about as far as back as the previous decade. “Flashing his oratorical gift before the industry for the first time, Cain focused instead on the minimum-wage hike that had just been proposed in Congress,” wrote Restaurant Business of a speech Cain had given to the NRA in the mid-1980s. ”He implored his surprised audience to close ranks behind the National Restaurant Association in its struggle to quash the bill. . . . If he’d asked his listeners to follow him off a cliff, they would have formed a line.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/280727

Remember the time when Herman Cain stood up to Bill Clinton over health care?

Mitt Romney should be made of such stern stuff!

 

[unregistered]

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Obama's Bad Karma!

There's been considerable coverage of the Department of Energy's $534-million loan guarantee to bankrupt Solyndra. But lurking unnoticed is a similar $529-million DOE grant to Fisker Automotive to build the high-end hybrid Karma and eventually mid-priced sedans. With Hyundai, Toyota, Porsche, and GM building hybrids, why is the government funding an automotive startup?

Fisker's people believe that they can build a car with more consumer appeal. Are they right? The market will let them know, just like it has for Chevy's Volt.
There are two considerations involved. First is the Karma itself, and second is the government loan in light of the Solyndra revelations.

Details are emerging as Fisker starts its Karma marketing roll-out. In the October 2011 Vanity Fair (VF) print edition, on page 206 and 210 are four-color, full-bleed spreads, plus four more one-page ads ending at 221. That's not surprising, since well-heeled progressive VF readers are Fisker's target buyers. The meager ad copy, which doesn't exude much driving passion, announces that the Karma represents "Responsible Luxury." It is "the first true electric luxury vehicle with extended range." And its performance has "low impact on the environment."

...

As for being an American job-generator, the Karma is currently being built in Finland, and according to Car and Driver, the electric motors utilized are a product of China.
For a $88,400 vehicle, "low impact" performance is not a characteristic I'm looking for, particularly when you consider that Chevy's Volt offers "low impact" performance. By comparison regarding performance appeal, consider the copy in a humble 2012 Ford V6 Mustang ad on page 174 in the same VF issue: "305 horsepower and 31 mpg in the same car. Or how to blow people away twice." That says "drive me." "Low impact" doesn't.

Currently, there's no full instrumented road tests. Popular Mechanics (PM) completed their basic test drive. The 196.7-inch-long, strikingly styled aluminum-body sedan weighs "about 5000" pounds, which is porky for a contemporary car. Why is weight listed as "about"? What's so hard about weighing a car? Zero-to-60 is 5.9 seconds, which, using the engine-driven generator sending power to the motors, would qualify as just OK for that price.

Since PM describes the Karma as a "performance vehicle," a full road test providing 0-60, 0-100, and quarter-mile times; braking; slalom; and skid pad numbers is needed to understand this car's performance character. Plus, flogging a Karma out on Mazda Raceway for a few laps would test for better or worse its hybrid performance capabilities. For its price, they should be pretty high

Naturally, it's no surprise that wealthy customers are buying. An Architectural Digest story mentions that Leonardo DiCaprio and Al Gore are Karma purchasers. It's noble that millionaire celebrities, who wouldn't hesitate a nanosecond to fly their private jets for a weekend jaunt, are buying a car that's environmentally "low impact."

Will the Fisker Karma be profitable? I presume that the list price means that each sale is profitable and not subsidized by loan funds. Ironically, the Karma will qualify for a $7,500 hybrid vehicle tax credit, which means a despised tax break for millionaires and billionaires.

The second consideration is Fisker loan conditions. Part of the proceeds involve buying a former GM assembly plant in Wilmington, Delaware to build their smaller, less expensive $40K Nina family sedan. Will this car be noticeably superior to a Chevy Volt? That's to be determined.

As for loan specifics, we don't know yet. In the meantime, here are the questions I would pose:

-If there is a default, will the rich "1 percent" private investors, who have ponied up $470 million, get shuffled like Solyndra's so they get repaid before taxpayers do?

-Will UAW workers staff the Delaware plant?

-In the loan application, did Fisker management include Nina sales estimates?

-Did any Fisker investors or management personnel bundle donations for Obama's political activities?

-Did Fisker management have White House access? Delaware, by coincidence, is the vice president's home state.

Summed up, a car factory, union workers, and lots of suppliers make for a good way to burn through $529 million so that in the end, no one knows where the money went. It's potentially like Solyndra, but with wheels.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/will_fisker_motors_be_another_solyndra.html

 

[JohnnySavage]

http://www.sesshudesign.com/wp-content/uploads/fisker-karma.jpg

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

$88,400! Not exactly "The People's Car!"

The trouble with the ruling class is that it doesn't have a clue about business. To an Obami like Jay Carney, White House press secretary, the failure of corporate crony Solyndra is "just the way business works." You win some, you lose some.

Only, of course, the way business works is that when you lose, it's supposed to be your money that gets lost. As Matthew Continetti points out, under Obamian crony capitalism with its subsidies and its loan guarantees, the crony capitalist "privatizes any gain while socializing the risk." No wonder financiers and CEOs are such enthusiastic campaign contributors. No wonder the OWS protesters are so confused.

But subsidies have consequences when it's time to start "socializing the risk." That's what the Meltdown of 2008 was all about. Politicians had subsidized mortgage credit for decades, and when that wasn't enough, they set goals and timetables to force banks to lend to unqualified buyers. Higher and higher went the real estate prices; lower and lower went the credit standards. When the whole thing flushed down the toilet, the politicians and their willing apologists in the media blamed "greedy bankers" and deregulation.

Now the politicians have sent the victims of another subsidy scheme into the streets. Bigger and bigger went the college grants and loans; higher and higher went the college fees. Now the whole higher education boondoggle is about to flush down the toilet, and the demonstrators say it's all about corporate greed. Graduates of liberal "studies" programs are outraged that their $50,000 in government-subsidized college debt plus $5 adds up to a meal at McDonald's.

It's not surprising that these lefties are protesting on Wall Street and blaming the Jews for everything. Jews are the paradigmatic middle-men, and Wall Streeters are just glorified peddlers. More than stock pickers or derivative wizards, Wall Streeters are in the business of flogging government debt to the widows and orphans, and to the world's pension funds: federal debt, state debt, development agency debt, school district debt, hospital, county, city -- you name it, they sell it.

Here's news for those naïve lefties: Wall Street didn't create all that debt. They just flogged it to the rubes, and got handsomely paid for doing the dirty work for the politicians. "Up north" in England, they have a saying for that: "Where there's muck, there's brass."

...

The majority of the funding for the $1.9 billion, 845-megawatt Shepherds Flat wind project in Oregon is coming courtesy of federal taxpayers. And that largesse will provide a windfall for General Electric and its partners on the deal who include Google, Sumitomo, and Caithness Energy. Not only is the Energy Department giving GE and its partners a $1.06 billion loan guarantee, but as soon as GE's 338 turbines start turning at Shepherds Flat, the Treasury Department will send the project developers a cash grant of $490 million. Google paid for a $100 million equity share in the project.

It's estimated that Shepherds Flat will deliver 22-30 percent return on equity for its owners. Corporate greed, perhaps, but who can blame them? In a couple of years, this firestorm of subsidies will have done so much damage that we'll have a complete green meltdown. The politicians will turn around and blame Wall Street and the corporations for the mess. Then they will jerk the subsidies away, and everyone will cheer.

After the firestorm dies down, folks like Google who build backup power to keep their server farms up 24-7 will buy the bankrupt wind farms at pennies on the dollar. They are the folks that could really use wind power -- if it is almost free. Hey, that is just the way that business works!

Business is really good at doing stuff, and when the political activists are determined to force us to eat our peas, business will always be there to sell the peas to Uncle Sam and make lots of money at it.

To turn around and blame the resulting consequence on corporate personhood or corporate greed is what Big Daddy used to call "mendacity."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/10/subsidies_have_consequences.html

 

[JohnnySavage]

And the government sells my oil and timber to the oil and lumber industry far below market value.

That's a subsidy as well.

 

[unregistered]

 

[NeverEndingMe]

one of the problems with government, is the system. too many layers. no motivation to get things done or be efficient.

the best thing we can do for government is to terminate just about everyone and start over. government workers are like cockroaches, they are entrenched in the walls and we need to fumigate the system.

Having a business degree in no way shape or form gives you more than a rudimentary review of some economic truisms, it does not indicate that you have delved deeply into either Sociology or the dismal art...

Most of us with degrees have had the same training, e.g., myself, from my days at DeVry and Accounting to Macroeconomics to 400-level business courses for my CS degree at a university.

I did not begin studying actual economics until I reread Federalist and deTocqueville after 9-11 with a questioning mind on what was liberty which led me away from the Democrat Party and its Socialist thinking to the Libertarian Party and the study of actual real Liberals at a time when they were the champions of Life, Liberty and Property, that Capitalism which you so fucking hate...

 

[koalabear]

Stocks waver on US data, Europe
Unemployment claims fall marginally. Home sales slide in September. European policymakers continue working to contain the region's debt crisis. Germany slashes its growth forecast. Gold falls


Updated: 10/20/2011 10:51 ET
DOW 11,495.88 -8.74
NASDAQ 2,592.43 -11.61
S&P 1,209.46 -0.42

 

[koalabear]

Stocks drop on economy worries


Updated: 10/20/2011 12:25 ET
DOW 11,413.20 -91.42
NASDAQ 2,563.10 -40.94
S&P 1,199.78 -10.10

 

[mercury14]

Secondly, they will be motivated to find, maybe even create work...

Your entire narrative is that there aren't jobs because of Obama. Now you're able to flip flop so severely that you're saying that 2 million laid-off federal workers could just find jobs... if they were motivated? And that the millions currently out of work are just lacking the motivation? THAT'S your new reason for 9% unemployment?

Hypocrite.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Your entire narrative is that there aren't jobs because of Obama. Now you're able to flip flop so severely that you're saying that 2 million laid-off federal workers could just find jobs... if they were motivated? And that the millions currently out of work are just lacking the motivation? THAT'S your new reason for 9% unemployment?

Hypocrite.

The word your looking for is liar. Hypocrites are a differently sillier problem but not inherently dishonest.

 

[mercury14]

Having a business degree in no way shape or form gives you more than a rudimentary review of some economic truisms, it does not indicate that you have delved deeply into either Sociology or the dismal art...

Most of us with degrees have had the same training, e.g., myself, from my days at DeVry and Accounting to Macroeconomics to 400-level business courses for my CS degree at a university.

I did not begin studying actual economics until...

What? If that's true then you need to back up off your stance that Hermann Cain's business background makes him qualified to handle the economy. Cain ran Burger Kings and Pizza joints with his *coughs* bachelor's degree in mathematics. He doesn't even have a business degree of any sort. His job creation experience at Godfather's Pizza makes makes him qualified though right? Even though he closed half their stores? How many jobs did he create when he laid off half the company?

You're talking about of both sides of your mouth again, hypocrite.

 

[koalabear]

Your entire narrative is that there aren't jobs because of Obama. Now you're able to flip flop so severely that you're saying that 2 million laid-off federal workers could just find jobs... if they were motivated? And that the millions currently out of work are just lacking the motivation? THAT'S your new reason for 9% unemployment?

Hypocrite.

The word your looking for is liar. Hypocrites are a differently sillier problem but not inherently dishonest.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/koalabear_photo/3b26525e.jpghttp://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/koalabear_photo/3b26525e.jpg

 

[mercury14]

It's an affront to individual freedom, even if two people get together and freely decide to engage in economic activity and both parties are satisfied with an outcome that pays less than the Minimum Wage, the government steps in and says it isn't happy, and the activity ceases.

Funny how yesterday you were proclaiming the awesomeness of the Newtster, even when it was pointed out to you that he backed healthcare mandates for years. Like Romney he sold out like a $10 whore.

 

[koalabear]

Reid's Comment on Private Sector 'Doing Fine' Puts Him Out on a Limb

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...test=latestnews?test=latestnews#ixzz1bMcILuR3

 

[mercury14]

The word your looking for is liar. Hypocrites are a differently sillier problem but not inherently dishonest.

He's both dishonest and a hypocrite. He says the solution to the recession and jobs problem is to lower taxes. It's just that simple! Then he turns around and throws his full crazy-mode support behind 9-9-9 which is going to raise taxes on 84% of us.

Apparently the solution was just as simple as raising taxes and penalizing spending this whole time.

 

[koalabear]

He's both dishonest and a hypocrite. He says the solution to the recession and jobs problem is to lower taxes. It's just that simple! Then he turns around and throws his full crazy-mode support behind 9-9-9 which is going to raise taxes on 84% of us.

Apparently the solution was just as simple as raising taxes and penalizing spending this whole time.

FRAUD ALERTS


The Department of Defense has become aware of various fraudulent schemes being perpetuated via the internet. These cyber criminals, posing as military members, prey on victims in an attempt to elicit money and/or personal and financial information. In many instances, the scam perpetrators say they are deployed, whether to Iraq or Afghanistan, and claim to need money for everything from leave papers to a flight back home. They may pose as an Air Force lieutenant, an Army general, or other military member, and provide you with fake or stolen photos. Often, they will contact members of the public by e-mail, instant messenger, online chat, and internet VOIP phone.

 

[unregistered]