Hey Potheads: Obama's ATF Says 2nd Amemdment Isn't For You

[KatNW1]

Marijuana is addictive.

Psychologically, though, right? To my knowledge there are no physical symptoms associated with the abrupt cessation of pot use - unlike alcohol or other drugs. Even caffeine and nicotine have physical withdrawal symptoms - I know caffeine binds to the adenosine receptors and blocks the slowing of cellular activity and of course nicotine binds to the nicotinic receptors and I believe blocks the action of acetylcholine? if my biochem has stuck with me? - though I don't believe pot binds to anything of that nature. (Not saying addiction isn't addiction, though!)

Asking because if I remember correctly, you're a doc. Otherwise I've just spouted a bunch of medical babble in the midst of a hangover and marked myself forever on this board as an incurable geek.

My view - if someone's at the point of needing medical marijuana, there's a good possibility they aren't in any physical condition to SHOOT a weapon, much less buy one. (Already owning one, I know, is a possibility.) If anyone needs to smoke it up to relax, it's got to be the ATF...

 

[Peregrinator]

Psychologically, though, right? To my knowledge there are no physical symptoms associated with the abrupt cessation of pot use - unlike alcohol or other drugs. Even caffeine and nicotine have physical withdrawal symptoms - I know caffeine binds to the adenosine receptors and blocks the slowing of cellular activity and of course nicotine binds to the nicotinic receptors and I believe blocks the action of acetylcholine? if my biochem has stuck with me? - though I don't believe pot binds to anything of that nature. (Not saying addiction isn't addiction, though!)

Asking because if I remember correctly, you're a doc. Otherwise I've just spouted a bunch of medical babble in the midst of a hangover and marked myself forever on this board as an incurable geek.

My view - if someone's at the point of needing medical marijuana, there's a good possibility they aren't in any physical condition to SHOOT a weapon, much less buy one. (Already owning one, I know, is a possibility.) If anyone needs to smoke it up to relax, it's got to be the ATF...

I'm not a doc, no, I'm a paramedic student with a much stronger background in science than most, a former pre-med, etc etc. And I sleep in whichever hotels those are that are supposed to make you smart.

My understanding based on some recent research is that the line between psychological and physical addiction is sort of popular usage, not medical science.

This, from wiki: The American Society of Addiction Medicine begins their definition of addiction by describing it as "a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry."[6][7]

So whether or not you suffer withdrawal symptoms upon cessation of use isn't really the criteria any more. Last time I looked at a DSM, they had a separate listing for substance abuse withdrawal. In fact, wait, I think it's online:


Substance Related Disorders

Common Characteristics
The two disorders in this category refer to either the abuse or dependence on a substance. A substance can be anything that is ingested in order to produce a high, alter one's senses, or otherwise affect functioning. The most common substance thought of in this category is alcohol although other drugs, such as cocaine, marijuana, heroin, ecstasy, special-K, and crack, are also included. Probably the most abused substances, caffeine and nicotine, are also included although rarely thought of in this manner by the layman.


http://allpsych.com/disorders/substance/index.html

So the bible of psych diagnosis refers to "abuse" and "dependence." It defines "dependence as : "Substance use history which includes the following: (1) substance abuse (see below); (2) continuation of use despite related problems; (3) increase in tolerance (more of the drug is needed to achieve the same effect); and (4) withdrawal symptoms."

Which I think is what most of us think of when we think of "addiction."

"Abuse" is: "A pattern of substance use leading to significant impairment in functioning. One of the following must be present within a 12 month period: (1) recurrent use resulting in a failure to fulfill major obligations at work, school, or home; (2) recurrent use in situations which are physically hazardous (e.g., driving while intoxicated); (3) legal problems resulting from recurrent use; or (4) continued use despite significant social or interpersonal problems caused by the substance use. The symptoms do not meet the criteria for substance dependence as abuse is a part of this disorder."

which is what we think of as, say, the stereotype stoner or drunk.

Your biochemistry is spot on, you almighty dork. I have an excuse for knowing this shit--did you know that adenosine is one of the drugs in the paramedic's arsenal?--but what's your excuse?

I had to google THC's action, but, no shocker, cannabinoid receptors:

The pharmacological actions of THC result from its binding to the cannabinoid receptor CB1, located mainly in the central nervous system, and the CB2 receptor, mainly present in cells of the immune system. It acts as a partial agonist on both receptors, i.e., it activates them but not to their full extent. The psychoactive effects of THC are mediated by its activation of the CB1 receptor, which is the most abundant G protein-coupled receptor in the brain.[citation needed] (wiki)

If you're tagging a receptor regularly with an outside agent that produces pleasure, rest assured you're re-wiring your brain, and that's the essence of addiction. Dopamine plays a significant role in distinguishing between survival benefit and survival detriment, and that system gets skewed when we fuck with it pharmaceutically.


I think in the end, the distinction between "psychological" and "physical" addiction isn't that important; it really only refers to withdrawal symptoms, and not to the cravings, the urge to use, the destruction to family and professional life, the potential for extremely bad judgment, etc.


I cannot highly enough recommend the video "Pleasure Unwoven" to anyone interested in the science of addiction.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

we lost the war on drugs. time for the little boys in the ATF to give up


the only thing we are doing is putting people in jail to protect Twinkies and enable the drug cartel to become stronger

I'm not a doc, no, I'm a paramedic student with a much stronger background in science than most, a former pre-med, etc etc. And I sleep in whichever hotels those are that are supposed to make you smart.

My understanding based on some recent research is that the line between psychological and physical addiction is sort of popular usage, not medical science.

This, from wiki: The American Society of Addiction Medicine begins their definition of addiction by describing it as "a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry."[6][7]

So whether or not you suffer withdrawal symptoms upon cessation of use isn't really the criteria any more. Last time I looked at a DSM, they had a separate listing for substance abuse withdrawal. In fact, wait, I think it's online:


Substance Related Disorders

Common Characteristics
The two disorders in this category refer to either the abuse or dependence on a substance. A substance can be anything that is ingested in order to produce a high, alter one's senses, or otherwise affect functioning. The most common substance thought of in this category is alcohol although other drugs, such as cocaine, marijuana, heroin, ecstasy, special-K, and crack, are also included. Probably the most abused substances, caffeine and nicotine, are also included although rarely thought of in this manner by the layman.


http://allpsych.com/disorders/substance/index.html

So the bible of psych diagnosis refers to "abuse" and "dependence." It defines "dependence as : "Substance use history which includes the following: (1) substance abuse (see below); (2) continuation of use despite related problems; (3) increase in tolerance (more of the drug is needed to achieve the same effect); and (4) withdrawal symptoms."

Which I think is what most of us think of when we think of "addiction."

"Abuse" is: "A pattern of substance use leading to significant impairment in functioning. One of the following must be present within a 12 month period: (1) recurrent use resulting in a failure to fulfill major obligations at work, school, or home; (2) recurrent use in situations which are physically hazardous (e.g., driving while intoxicated); (3) legal problems resulting from recurrent use; or (4) continued use despite significant social or interpersonal problems caused by the substance use. The symptoms do not meet the criteria for substance dependence as abuse is a part of this disorder."

which is what we think of as, say, the stereotype stoner or drunk.

Your biochemistry is spot on, you almighty dork. I have an excuse for knowing this shit--did you know that adenosine is one of the drugs in the paramedic's arsenal?--but what's your excuse?

I had to google THC's action, but, no shocker, cannabinoid receptors:

The pharmacological actions of THC result from its binding to the cannabinoid receptor CB1, located mainly in the central nervous system, and the CB2 receptor, mainly present in cells of the immune system. It acts as a partial agonist on both receptors, i.e., it activates them but not to their full extent. The psychoactive effects of THC are mediated by its activation of the CB1 receptor, which is the most abundant G protein-coupled receptor in the brain.[citation needed] (wiki)

If you're tagging a receptor regularly with an outside agent that produces pleasure, rest assured you're re-wiring your brain, and that's the essence of addiction. Dopamine plays a significant role in distinguishing between survival benefit and survival detriment, and that system gets skewed when we fuck with it pharmaceutically.


I think in the end, the distinction between "psychological" and "physical" addiction isn't that important; it really only refers to withdrawal symptoms, and not to the cravings, the urge to use, the destruction to family and professional life, the potential for extremely bad judgment, etc.


I cannot highly enough recommend the video "Pleasure Unwoven" to anyone interested in the science of addiction.

 

[Peregrinator]

we lost the war on drugs. time for the little boys in the ATF to give up


the only thing we are doing is putting people in jail to protect Twinkies and enable the drug cartel to become stronger

The brain is the only organ that, when it gets sick, produces symptoms that are against the law. It would be like locking up CHF patients for coughing up phlegm, or gout patients for using a cane or something. I think we should legalize drugs and treat addicts like what they are, sick people, not criminals.

 

[Comshaw]

A hunter?!? You are dead to me now...

Whooo thar' little girl. Are you a vegan? If so cool, you go for it and give the rest of us hell.
BUT......
If not, I'd say you really need to rethink that statement. Anyone that eats meat and doesn't have the fortitude, foresight and respect for the animal they are eating to at least once do the killing if not the preparation, is in my book a hypocritical asshole.

I like you and really hope you are vegan.



Comshaw

 

[NeverEndingMe]

The brain is the only organ that, when it gets sick, produces symptoms that are against the law. It would be like locking up CHF patients for coughing up phlegm, or gout patients for using a cane or something. I think we should legalize drugs and treat addicts like what they are, sick people, not criminals.

you my friend, are brilliant

 

[Peregrinator]

you my friend, are brilliant

Nice of you to say. I'm not sure that's true, but I have looked at addiction from a lot of different angles.

 

[Image]

Whooo thar' little girl. Are you a vegan? If so cool, you go for it and give the rest of us hell.
BUT......
If not, I'd say you really need to rethink that statement. Anyone that eats meat and doesn't have the fortitude, foresight and respect for the animal they are eating to at least once do the killing if not the preparation, is in my book a hypocritical asshole.

I like you and really hope you are vegan.



Comshaw

Sorry to dissapoint but I'm not vegan. I'm not even 100% vegetarian, though I don't eat most meats. I don't have a problem with people who go out and eat a steak though; since they do it mostly out of blind ignorance anyway...

The problem I have with hunters (and I know the arguments about controlling population, not wasting any part, feeding their family and community, blah, blah, blah) is that while all that may be true the real reason a hunter hunts is for the sport of it. The tracking, the thrill of the head shot, the boasting around the gut pile, the display of machismo and the commradery of their fellow testosteronites.

I like you too but I abhor that behaviour...