What happened to all of the doom and gloom economic threads?

[RightField]

China is no military threat to anyone except maybe Tibet.

Our next war will be with Mexico, Japan, maybe Turkey if China allows it.

All China need do is close its American factories and we'll be on our knees. We lost our sovereignty to China and didnt know it.

And anyone in the south China sea, including, but especially Taiwan. They're building Aircraft carriers to have the capability to "project" air power now too. I don't think those are being built to transport tea to Taiwan with the aircraft being available to drop leaflets along the shore proclaiming "Tea is ready, come and get it!"

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[richard_daily]

I am not the one who made a claim of ruination. Stop lying about what I have said.

I responded to you because you asked of someone else, "What fundamental changes has Obama Made?". As you seem to be dwelling on inane points, it may be a long time before I again respond to one of your posts.

I responded that his Health care act - is a fundamental change of the relationship between Government and the individuals of this nation.

Fair enough. i was confusing what other people had said, and what you had said, so I apologize. That said, you are claiming that this fundamental change is a bad one... and I say, that change didn't go nearly far enough.

That said; I can't see your insurance premiums rising 10% as trumping the millions of people who were uninsured prior to this bill.

Respond, or don't, that's fine either way.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Your looking in the wrong place, you need to be tuned into here:

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2011-04/chinas-naval-challenge

If it happens in the Navy, you'll read about it here first.

Thank you. Now pulled directly from your article, which was quite informative thank you.

Intentions vs Capabilities.

Most of the debate concerning the PRC’s military policy seems to focus on the country’s intentions rather than what it is physically able to do. However, even in discussing capabilities, too often attention is devoted almost exclusively to a single weapon system instead of considering how a particular platform or weapon fits into a larger operational or strategic framework. Examples of such a misguided approach include the flurry of reports and analysis regarding the PLA’s new antiship ballistic missile and the prototype of the J-20 stealth fighter.

Experience conclusively points to great dangers in making policy or military decisions on the potential opponent’s intentions, instead of assessing a full range of his capabilities. An opponent’s intentions can change with very little or no warning. An enemy might skillfully hide or feign his intentions for a long time. Perhaps the worst thing to do is to determine an enemy’s capability by using “mirror imaging”: thinking he will not do certain things because you would not do them under similar circumstances.

This doesn't sound like the writings of someone who thinks China is about to attack. It's someone mentioning that if you see some guy sharpening a sword you should be aware of both his intentions and his capabilities. The article concludes that the PRC is well on its way to being a credible threat.

Still that's not someone who's about to attack, its someone who might potentially prevent us from helping our allies should something break out in Taiwan or Korea. Based on JUST that yeah I still go with cuts. At least if you're serious about the deficiet.

 

[richard_daily]

Thank you. Now pulled directly from your article, which was quite informative thank you.

Intentions vs Capabilities.

Most of the debate concerning the PRC’s military policy seems to focus on the country’s intentions rather than what it is physically able to do. However, even in discussing capabilities, too often attention is devoted almost exclusively to a single weapon system instead of considering how a particular platform or weapon fits into a larger operational or strategic framework. Examples of such a misguided approach include the flurry of reports and analysis regarding the PLA’s new antiship ballistic missile and the prototype of the J-20 stealth fighter.

Experience conclusively points to great dangers in making policy or military decisions on the potential opponent’s intentions, instead of assessing a full range of his capabilities. An opponent’s intentions can change with very little or no warning. An enemy might skillfully hide or feign his intentions for a long time. Perhaps the worst thing to do is to determine an enemy’s capability by using “mirror imaging”: thinking he will not do certain things because you would not do them under similar circumstances.

This doesn't sound like the writings of someone who thinks China is about to attack. It's someone mentioning that if you see some guy sharpening a sword you should be aware of both his intentions and his capabilities. The article concludes that the PRC is well on its way to being a credible threat.

Still that's not someone who's about to attack, its someone who might potentially prevent us from helping our allies should something break out in Taiwan or Korea. Based on JUST that yeah I still go with cuts. At least if you're serious about the deficiet.

This has never been about the deficit.. it's been about lengthening the recession so that the republicans can get back into office. THey'll do anything and everything towards that goal, including ruining the credit rating of the country, and ignoring the deficit by refusing to raise taxes on the wealthy to pay it down.

 

[lustatopia]

China as it stands is not a credible threat to us, nor are they a likely attacker in the short term. On the list of people who you don't attack the people who buy your products and you give loans to is pretty high. I'm sure their smart enough to know that the moment they fire a single bullet at us that the debt we owe them becomes zero. Not sure they'd like that plan.

Aside from just cus you want it and most Americans want to, hell if we weren't acting like morons I'd want to, there is no reason not to seriously slash the military budget.

Their build up is pathetic and you're not making a good case for why we should balance the budget by punishing grandma and her SS and medicare. Even though I tenatively support raising the retirement age I haven't heard ANY body address the point of how much this will raise unemployment and if it's really worth it when you remember that fact.

Sean, the key is you're claim China is not a threat to us in the SHORT TERM. So you're right, China isn't likely to attack the US in the SHORT TERM. But you are missing the bigger Pacific/Indian Ocean strategic situation. China is actively trying to expand it's control of shipping lanes and strategic islands from Somalia to Japan. They are willing to fire on Japanese and S Korean vessels and push back hard on US Navy patrols. Everyone in Asia is very nervous about China's new oceanic bullying and about Obama's weakness.

The US is committed by treaty to defend Taiwan and Australia in the event of war, not to mention Korea, Japan and the Philippines. Meanwhile, there is a coming nuclear stand-off between the crazy mullahs of Iran and Israel. Everyone is gearing up for a new war based in Palestine/Lebanon area. Turkey has become the last state overcome by the Islamofacsist desire to destroy Israel. Russia wants to retake it's lost colonies in Central Asia. And it's just a matter of time before China takes back Taiwan by force. The EU is going to have to split up at some level and are totally weak. The various revolutions in Syria and Egypt to Yemen are ongoing and still spreading, the oil tyrants of the middle east are desperate.

The world is in a very similar kind of situation it was before WWI. The old order (this time Pax Americana) is crumbling and weak. Hot spots exists all over the world. Dictators are building vast armies and preparing to take advantage of any chaos, while the great democracies are unilaterally disarming and concerned with domestic infighting.

This new economic chaos comes at the worst possible time. Some here think China has too much invested in the US to start a war, but maybe not so much now that Obama has destroyed the wealth of our nation and thus devalued the Chinese investment in America. China is a totalitarian empire held together by brutal oppression of all opposition. Unlike the US, an economic mess caused by WW III might well be worth the final resulting rebalancing of global power.

I can imagine a number of very plausible scenarios that could lead to global war before the Nov 2012 election. I can even imagine Obama cancelling the elections because of this war and declaring martial law.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

as long as we have ignorant jackasses like yourself, DC will remain broken and dysfunctional.

This has never been about the deficit.. it's been about lengthening the recession so that the republicans can get back into office. THey'll do anything and everything towards that goal, including ruining the credit rating of the country, and ignoring the deficit by refusing to raise taxes on the wealthy to pay it down.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Sean, the key is you're claim China is not a threat to us in the SHORT TERM. So you're right, China isn't likely to attack the US in the SHORT TERM. But you are missing the bigger Pacific/Indian Ocean strategic situation. China is actively trying to expand it's control of shipping lanes and strategic islands from Somalia to Japan. They are willing to fire on Japanese and S Korean vessels and push back hard on US Navy patrols. Everyone in Asia is very nervous about China's new oceanic bullying and about Obama's weakness.

Not even in the long run. Sure anything could happen but as you've just said there is no sign they are aggressive NOW. Yeah they are trying to control shipping lanes. Until they become a threat to US interests that's not actually a problem. It'd be nice for someone else to shoot the Somali Pirates the next time they act up anyway. If they're worried about Obama's weakness they shouldn't be. Can you source that to something please?

The US is committed by treaty to defend Taiwan and Australia in the event of war, not to mention Korea, Japan and the Philippines. Meanwhile, there is a coming nuclear stand-off between the crazy mullahs of Iran and Israel. Everyone is gearing up for a new war based in Palestine/Lebanon area. Turkey has become the last state overcome by the Islamofacsist desire to destroy Israel. Russia wants to retake it's lost colonies in Central Asia. And it's just a matter of time before China takes back Taiwan by force. The EU is going to have to split up at some level and are totally weak. The various revolutions in Syria and Egypt to Yemen are ongoing and still spreading, the oil tyrants of the middle east are desperate. .

Active imagination you got there.

The world is in a very similar kind of situation it was before WWI. The old order (this time Pax Americana) is crumbling and weak. Hot spots exists all over the world. Dictators are building vast armies and preparing to take advantage of any chaos, while the great democracies are unilaterally disarming and concerned with domestic infighting. .

Except that's not what happened before WW1 nor is that happening now.

This new economic chaos comes at the worst possible time. Some here think China has too much invested in the US to start a war, but maybe not so much now that Obama has destroyed the wealth of our nation and thus devalued the Chinese investment in America. China is a totalitarian empire held together by brutal oppression of all opposition. Unlike the US, an economic mess caused by WW III might well be worth the final resulting rebalancing of global power. .

You mean Bush? Why didn't they rush in when the economy was plummeting from 14k to under 10?

Lets say that they did, assuming the chips all fell where they ought and NATO fought on one side and there were no neutral countries it would suck but they'd lose. It wouldn't rebalance shit and unless they got really lucky and did some serious damage to mainland America it would be MORE likely just to re-establish US dominance as we would once again have taken away their manufacturing ability.

Now it's true, anything could happen. For all we know North Korea could have developed a couple of these babies and are preparing for world conquest and we must always remain prepared but at some point you're overprepared.

I can imagine a number of very plausible scenarios that could lead to global war before the Nov 2012 election. I can even imagine Obama cancelling the elections because of this war and declaring martial law.

Really? You can imagine Obama declaring martial law? Are there other righties out there that believe for ONE second that Obama has the leadership skills and political will to declare martial law and cancel elections?

 

[lustatopia]

Most wars happen because most or all the major player decide that war is in their advantage. Today the conditions conducive for a new global war are better than at any time since the 1930's. And our only hope to avoid one is to maintain a strong military. But even then, it might be too late to stop WW III

Everyone is gearing up for war. Russia wants to make war to take back some territories it lost in the break up of the Soviet Union...Iran is threatening nuclear war with Israel.... Syria needs a war with Israel as a cover to kill off internal dissent. The Turks would also like a go at Israel and retake Northern Iraq to control the Kurdish issue. The whole middle east is ripe for a reshuffle of power. China also has many expansionist desires especially toward Taiwan, the Sudan and it would like to oppress internal dissent more brutally than it can in a time of peace. Australia is a tempting Chinese mining colony. The Norks need war, any war, just to justify their existence and they have nukes. Venezuela, Ecuador and other S American leftist dictators have expansionist dreams. Might even like to divide up Colombia like the Germans did Poland. Pakistan vs India. The list goes on.

There are case-by-case reasons why each of these hot spots hasn't exploded, but they all have two big reasons in common. 1. The massive military power of the US is always a threat. 2. The massive global opprobrium they would reap if they started their little massacre in times of relative peace.

Three circumstances have open up a narrow strategic window of opportunity for a global war to occur. 1. The US has its stupidest president since the 19th century. 2. America's economic decline. 3. The 1968-style social chaos that is coming in the US as the November 2012 election approaches.

For America's enemies these signs of weakness are delicious and tempting indeed. What a great time to for a strategically place bit of mayhem on the world stage. It’s even possible to destroy America simply by a single amazing act of terrorism. Not in America, but somewhere America is forced to defend by treaty. Iran nukes Israel, for instance. And then all that pent up need to rebalance the world's order cascades in a rapid catastrophic failure of Pax Americana. Nork's nuke Japan. China invades Taiwan. Russia marches south. Syria takes Lebanon. Egypt takes Sinai. Venezuela attacks Columbia. The drug lords take Mexico City. The US military can't be everywhere at the same time.

None of that overseas shit would destroy America, you say? After all, no one can invade the US.

That's the really clever part of WWW III and why the window of opportunity only extends to Nov 2012. While the emerging powers redraw the world in their own image, Obama will be sure not to let a perfectly good crisis go to waste. Knowing he stands little chance of winning a fair election. He'll use the chaos of war to suspend elections, suspend habeas corpus and pull troops off foreign battle fields (in violation of our treaty obligation) to fight Americans in Texas and where ever else patriots revolt against martial law.

That's how those who hate us could destroy us in the autumn of 2012.

 

[RightField]

Most wars happen because most or all the major player decide that war is in their advantage. Today the conditions conducive for a new global war are better than at any time since the 1930's. And our only hope to avoid one is to maintain a strong military.

My compliments. Well done.

 

[garbage can]

Really? You can imagine Obama declaring martial law? Are there other righties out there that believe for ONE second that Obama has the leadership skills and political will to declare martial law and cancel elections?

Prolly not.

But if you view Obama as a Marionette, perhaps his manipulator will.

 

[eyer]

Iran says U.S. 'will be taught the mother of all lessons'

Editorial warns of pending cyber attack on electrical grid

Here we go with this 'mother' crap again...

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=329977

 

[koalabear]

I hope the sump pump works in this thread. I'd hate to see every drown in lib tears.

 

[garbage can]

This has never been about the deficit.. it's been about lengthening the recession so that the republicans can get back into office. THey'll do anything and everything towards that goal, including ruining the credit rating of the country, and ignoring the deficit by refusing to raise taxes on the wealthy to pay it down.

And here I thought that S&P told us that revenues were okay, but we had to stop spending.

Spending:...Is that how you heard it?

Are the Republicans responsible for lengthening the recession?
If so, how?

 

[koalabear]

Where's BB? While the market was crashing Oblamer was golfing, how did BB miss that!

 

[lustatopia]

The Australian military is very worried about China's intentions. Australia happens to be China's closest and biggest source of coal, gas, iron ore and uranium. In any future WWIII scenario. China would take the northwest half of Australia as soon as it could. The US is obligated by a mutual defence pact to declare war on China in such a case.

Note that American economic decline contains dire strategic implications for those within China's sphere of influence.

Ross Babbage has deep concerns about China’s growing military power and assertiveness. His concerns are magnified by his pessimism over the economic outlook for the United States throughout the next decade.

In Australia’s Strategic Edge in 2030 (Kokoda Paper No. 15, February 2011) Babbage asks what Australia should do to ‘offset and deter’ the rapidly expanding Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) in the Western Pacific.

Babbage says the rise of China’s military power faces Australia with its greatest security challenge since the Second World War. He likens Chinese strategic thinking to that employed by the Japanese in planning their attack on Pearl Harbour. He dismisses the ambitious military modernisation program set out in the White Paper as ‘not very effective.’ Instead he proposes a ‘highly asymmetric’ counter to China, involving acquisitions and policies that he says would be seen in Beijing and elsewhere as ‘game-changers.’

Babbage says Australia should acquire 10 to 12 American nuclear attack submarines, base major US combat capabilities in Australia, arm ‘arsenal’ ships with cruise missiles, join the US in building and deploying a new class of advanced stealthy strike aircraft, expand cyber warfare capabilities, and possibly join the US in developing and employing an advanced missile system.

He says Australia’s counter-strategy might include ‘seriously damaging the capacities of China’s strategic leadership to govern’ and ‘threatening the cohesion of the Chinese state.’ He proposes developing linkages with dissident Chinese ‘to stir serious internal disruptions and even revolts.’ How Australia might achieve such objectives against a Leninist nuclear power with a quarter of the world’s population is not explained.

Even the US military has publicly hinted that the probability of war with China over Taiwan is greater today than it has ever been in the past...Still remote, one would hope, but then remember smart players take advantage of crises to do things that they could not have done during more stable times.

"China's near-term focus appears to be on preparing for potential contingencies involving Taiwan, including possible US military intervention," Bloomberg quoted Panetta as saying in a hearing with the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Meanwhile, The New York Times (NYT) said, "China is trying hard to make up for its diplomatic setbacks in 2010, when, in quick succession, it picked territorial fights with Vietnam, the Philippines, Japan and India, and angered South Korea by not condemning Pyongyang's aggressions."

http://world.globaltimes.cn/asia-pacific/2011-06/663291.html

 

[koalabear]

Where's BB? While the market was crashing Oblamer was golfing, how did BB miss that!

It kind of reminds me of a guy that fiddled while Rome burnt.

http://conservativebyte.com/2011/08/obama-golfs-after-downgrade/

 

[unregistered]

 

[Beco]

Iran says U.S. 'will be taught the mother of all lessons'

Editorial warns of pending cyber attack on electrical grid

Here we go with this 'mother' crap again...

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=329977

Iran....shut up already!

 

[PannieMonster]

I felt a grave disturbance in my 401K. As if thousands of dollars suddenly cried out in terror and then were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

 

[mercury14]

My compliments. Well done.

So you think there's more chance for a world war now than at any time during the Cold War, huh? What you're saying is that things are even hotter than say, the Cuban missile crisis? Really?

 

[mercury14]

The Australian military is very worried about China's intentions. Australia happens to be China's closest and biggest source of coal, gas, iron ore and uranium. In any future WWIII scenario. China would take the northwest half of Australia as soon as it could. The US is obligated by a mutual defence pact to declare war on China in such a case.

Note that American economic decline contains dire strategic implications for those within China's sphere of influence.



Even the US military has publicly hinted that the probability of war with China over Taiwan is greater today than it has ever been in the past...Still remote, one would hope, but then remember smart players take advantage of crises to do things that they could not have done during more stable times.



http://world.globaltimes.cn/asia-pacific/2011-06/663291.html

Pure paranoia.

 

[mercury14]

And here I thought that S&P told us that revenues were okay, but we had to stop spending.

Spending:...Is that how you heard it?

Are the Republicans responsible for lengthening the recession?
If so, how?

Republicans used the threat of default as a bargaining chip and refused to compromise until the bitter end when they got 98% of what they wanted. S&P abhorred this tactic and called it the reason they downgraded us. Whether or not the debt ceiling should be raised should NEVER have been fought over. Therefore Republicans bear a ton of responsibility here.

 

[koalabear]

Republicans used the threat of default as a bargaining chip and refused to compromise until the bitter end when they got 98% of what they wanted. S&P abhorred this tactic and called it the reason they downgraded us. Whether or not the debt ceiling should be raised should NEVER have been fought over. Therefore Republicans bear a ton of responsibility here.

Good thing Obama didn't threaten to stop Grandma's SS check, MORON.