Will Casey Anthony Get Billed by the State of Florida?

[Zeb_Carter]

Will Casey Anthony Get Billed by the State of Florida?

We have several breaking developments in the Casey Anthony case, including word that the state of Florida will seek reimbursement for "special costs" due to the investigation and trial.

WTF?

 

[PennLady]

WTF?

That is indeed bizarre. I mean, the state brought the charges and didn't prove the case, so I don't see how they can get costs out of her... weird. Where was that from?

 

[soflabbwlvr]

She was convicted of on four counts of lying to police, and sentenced to one year of prison and fined $1000.00 for each count. Under Florida law, the State is entitled to reimbursement of its costs to investigate and prosecute the case. I believe the minimum she can be assessed is $50 or $100. Had she told the truth from the beginning, the State would not have spent thousands of dollars searching for the child and investigating her false leads.

 

[TE999]

I've not been following this media circus trial much at all, but I am curious; did Anthony's attorneys take her case pro bono or what? I can't imagine her family had the bucks to hire those guys.

Either way, their fortunes are made. Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan.

 

[PennLady]

She was convicted of on four counts of lying to police, and sentenced to one year of prison and fined $1000.00 for each count. Under Florida law, the State is entitled to reimbursement of its costs to investigate and prosecute the case. I believe the minimum she can be assessed is $50 or $100. Had she told the truth from the beginning, the State would not have spent thousands of dollars searching for the child and investigating her false leads.

Right, that makes sense. I'd forgotten (sort of) about the charges of lying to police.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

She was convicted of on four counts of lying to police, and sentenced to one year of prison and fined $1000.00 for each count. Under Florida law, the State is entitled to reimbursement of its costs to investigate and prosecute the case. I believe the minimum she can be assessed is $50 or $100. Had she told the truth from the beginning, the State would not have spent thousands of dollars searching for the child and investigating her false leads.

Right, that makes sense. I'd forgotten (sort of) about the charges of lying to police.

Yeah, about those...if I find myself on a jury considering a charge of lying to a law enforcement officer, I’m going to refuse to convict unless the accused was under oath at the time the lie was told. I’m not going to convict someone of lying to a law enforcement officer so long as it is perfectly legal for a law enforcement officer to lie to me.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I've not been following this media circus trial much at all, but I am curious; did Anthony's attorneys take her case pro bono or what? I can't imagine her family had the bucks to hire those guys.

Either way, their fortunes are made. Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan.

No the state paid for them...the initial estimate was $103,000.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Yeah, about those...if I find myself on a jury considering a charge of lying to a law enforcement officer, I’m going to refuse to convict unless the accused was under oath at the time the lie was told. I’m not going to convict someone of lying to a law enforcement officer so long as it is perfectly legal for a law enforcement officer to lie to me.

Zeb, it is a crime to give false information during a missing person investigation. The evidence of her guilt was overwhelming. The jury followed the instructions as they were sworn to do.

837.055 False information to law enforcement during investigation. —Whoever knowingly and willfully gives false information to a law enforcement officer who is conducting a missing person investigation or a felony criminal investigation with the intent to mislead the officer or impede the investigation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082

 

[PennLady]

Yeah, about those...if I find myself on a jury considering a charge of lying to a law enforcement officer, I’m going to refuse to convict unless the accused was under oath at the time the lie was told. I’m not going to convict someone of lying to a law enforcement officer so long as it is perfectly legal for a law enforcement officer to lie to me.

I wonder if there's (much) difference between lying to police and obstructing justice, or if it's just the way things are worded in different places. Because that's what lying to cops would be, I'd think. By lying, you're impeding the investigation.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Zeb, it is a crime to give false information during a missing person investigation. The evidence of her guilt was overwhelming. The jury followed the instructions as they were sworn to do.

837.055 False information to law enforcement during investigation. —Whoever knowingly and willfully gives false information to a law enforcement officer who is conducting a missing person investigation or a felony criminal investigation with the intent to mislead the officer or impede the investigation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082

I wonder if there's (much) difference between lying to police and obstructing justice, or if it's just the way things are worded in different places. Because that's what lying to cops would be, I'd think. By lying, you're impeding the investigation.

Well like I said, when it's legal for the police to lie to me, why is it illegal for me to lie to them.

Especially, when my answer is "I don't know."

which means

"Quit bothering me about shit I don't know anything about, not that I would tell you if I knew what the fuck you were talking about. I mind my own business and don't stick my nose where it don't belong."

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Well like I said, when it's legal for the police to lie to me, why is it illegal for me to lie to them.

Especially, when my answer is "I don't know."

which means

"Quit bothering me about shit I don't know anything about, not that I would tell you if I knew what the fuck you were talking about. I mind my own business and don't stick my nose where it don't belong."

She wasn't convicted of saying "I don't know." She was convicted of four specific lies relating to whether the child was missing; that she had received a telephone call from the child; where she worked; and with whom she left the child.

 

[stephen55]

I believe that the evidence against OJ was enough to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt, of murder. (What did OJ say to the judge after he was acquitted? "I want my glove back."

In the Anthony case, I also believe that the evidence points directly to Casey herself. I've heard that the jury wasn't able to find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt because there was no hard evidence (such as DNA) linking Casey to the death of Caylee (the little girl). For example, forensics was not able to show the presence of a substance like chloroform (to render the girl unconscious) in her bodily remains. Nor were they able to conclusively match a degraded trace of DNA on duct tape found with the body to Casey Anthony.

If Casey hadn't lied to the investigating authorities, Caylee's remains might have been found after only two months, instead of the six it actually took. DNA evidence found on the duct tape at the body site might have not been so degraded as to be not useful as a match to Casey or her father.

Why did Casey lie to the authorities? Her reason, trumpeted loud and long by her defense was that she had been repeatedly sexually abused by her father and had learned that in order to survive she had to lie. Her main defense lawyer told the jury at the beginning that Casey was a liar and had lied because it was her nature to lie.

Casey's father, who both denied the abuse and being part of an attempted cover up, had his testimony trumped by a defendant who was clearly a liar and who's defense lawyers managed to turn that into something positive. (Something tells me that this is hardly a first in the history of American jurisprudence.)

What else went wrong?

The authorities fucked up big time, as in they fucked up so badly that only in a state like Florida will they not only keep their jobs but likely get promoted.

A fellow by the name of Roy Kronk found a small skull in the woods near the Anthony home and reported it to the cops early in Aug, 2008. He called back over three consecutive days, wondering why the police weren't interested before he gave up. Four months later, he was out in the woods again and once more came across the skull. This time when he called the police, they responded.

Why a police force, into an investigation of a missing little girl, would repeatedly ignore a report of a small skull found close to the little girl's home is beyond me.

A Dutch expert in dealing with small traces of DNA testified that a better DNA profile could have been established using more modern techniques available than the ones that were actually used. In addition, maggots in a pile of paper towels found in a trash bag Casey's car could have been DNA tested to look for Casey's DNA. (The theory was that Casey used the paper towels to clean up fluids from Caylee's decomposing body. The maggots fed on the fluids.) That testing was never done.

"The state attorney for Orange County, Lawson Lamar, characterized the investigation and prosecution of Anthony as a “dry bones case, very, very difficult to prove.”
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/case-against-casey-anthony-slam-dunk-wasn-t-222739019.html

Why did Casey lie about her missing daughter? Why did she mislead the people looking for her daughter? My guess is she knew that if she mislead them well enough and long enough, her daughter might have never been found. She missed on that but she did delay the finding of her daughter long enough so that incompetent police and out of touch lab techs couldn't put together a case that would have been a no-brainer anywhere that values justice over legal theatrics and cost-saving last century lab technique.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

No the state paid for them...the initial estimate was $103,000.

No. Casey Anthony paid Baez $200,000; she sold the use of personal photos and vids to get the money.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I believe that the evidence against OJ was enough to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt, of murder. (What did OJ say to the judge after he was acquitted? "I want my glove back."

In the Anthony case, I also believe that the evidence points directly to Casey herself. I've heard that the jury wasn't able to find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt because there was no hard evidence (such as DNA) linking Casey to the death of Caylee (the little girl). For example, forensics was not able to show the presence of a substance like chloroform (to render the girl unconscious) in her bodily remains. Nor were they able to conclusively match a degraded trace of DNA on duct tape found with the body to Casey Anthony.

If Casey hadn't lied to the investigating authorities, Caylee's remains might have been found after only two months, instead of the six it actually took. DNA evidence found on the duct tape at the body site might have not been so degraded as to be not useful as a match to Casey or her father.

Why did Casey lie to the authorities? Her reason, trumpeted loud and long by her defense was that she had been repeatedly sexually abused by her father and had learned that in order to survive she had to lie. Her main defense lawyer told the jury at the beginning that Casey was a liar and had lied because it was her nature to lie.

Casey's father, who both denied the abuse and being part of an attempted cover up, had his testimony trumped by a defendant who was clearly a liar and who's defense lawyers managed to turn that into something positive. (Something tells me that this is hardly a first in the history of American jurisprudence.)

What else went wrong?

The authorities fucked up big time, as in they fucked up so badly that only in a state like Florida will they not only keep their jobs but likely get promoted.

A fellow by the name of Roy Kronk found a small skull in the woods near the Anthony home and reported it to the cops early in Aug, 2008. He called back over three consecutive days, wondering why the police weren't interested before he gave up. Four months later, he was out in the woods again and once more came across the skull. This time when he called the police, they responded.

Why a police force, into an investigation of a missing little girl, would repeatedly ignore a report of a small skull found close to the little girl's home is beyond me.

A Dutch expert in dealing with small traces of DNA testified that a better DNA profile could have been established using more modern techniques available than the ones that were actually used. In addition, maggots in a pile of paper towels found in a trash bag Casey's car could have been DNA tested to look for Casey's DNA. (The theory was that Casey used the paper towels to clean up fluids from Caylee's decomposing body. The maggots fed on the fluids.) That testing was never done.

"The state attorney for Orange County, Lawson Lamar, characterized the investigation and prosecution of Anthony as a “dry bones case, very, very difficult to prove.”
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/case-against-casey-anthony-slam-dunk-wasn-t-222739019.html

Why did Casey lie about her missing daughter? Why did she mislead the people looking for her daughter? My guess is she knew that if she mislead them well enough and long enough, her daughter might have never been found. She missed on that but she did delay the finding of her daughter long enough so that incompetent police and out of touch lab techs couldn't put together a case that would have been a no-brainer anywhere that values justice over legal theatrics and cost-saving last century lab technique.

RECALL THAT ROY KRONK CALLED THE SHERIFF AFTER HE FOUND THE REMAINS. THAT WAS AUGUST OF 2008. THE SHERIFF BLEW HIM OFF AND GAVE HIM A HARD TIME. KRONK CALLED THE SHERIFF AGAIN IN DECEMBER AND THE SHERIFF CHECKED IT OUT.

SPECULATION ISNT EVIDENCE. JUST CUZ EVERYONE HAS A NIFTY THEORY DOESNT MEAN ITS THE RIGHT THEORY. I WATCH HOUSE!

I SUSPECT CAYLEE OVERDOSED ON MOMMA'S DOPE, LITTLE KIDS DO THAT. THEN CASEY BLACKMAILED GRANDPA TO HELP HER OUT. HE'S A RETIRED COP AND KNOWS HOW THE GAME'S PLAYED.

 

[sr71plt]

I SUSPECT CAYLEE OVERDOSED ON MOMMA'S DOPE, LITTLE KIDS DO THAT. THEN CASEY BLACKMAILED GRANDPA TO HELP HER OUT. HE'S A RETIRED COP AND KNOWS HOW THE GAME'S PLAYED.

And the need to duct tape the face of a dead person would be . . . ?

 

[Pure]

i disagree with some posters and the general public: i don't think the evidence as to Casey "murdering" her kid was conclusive. indeed that the mom 'caused' the death was not solidly established.

further the prosecution had no good evidence-backed theory as to how it happened. the use of chloroform was speculation.

we know the mom covered up whatever it was, and lied repeatedly and was hardly 'overcome' with grief. i wonder why she was not charged with obstruction of justice. the lying charges and sentence do not result in any addition time. she's free, now.

--
that said, the incompetence of the florida authorities, the policie ignoring the early tip about the skull, etc. are major factors in the failure of the prosecution's case.

 

[3113]

And the need to duct tape the face of a dead person would be . . . ?

Fear of zombies?

 

[PennLady]

Obviously a lot of things went wrong in this case, from all sides. I'm one of the few who apparently had no idea it was going on; I found out about a week before the verdict was announced after talking to a friend. (How did I miss, one might ask? I do not watch cable news, and the websites I visit rarely mentioned it.)

But any one who posts that they would have found her guilty because of x, y, or z is just speculating (just what this case needs). Something bad happened, there is no doubt, but none of what was presented seemed to prove Casey Anthony killed her daughter.

I also think that we the non-jury public might forget that the jury was sequestered and did not have access to the ranting that passed for analysis, or just all the filler that was used.

It's awful. It's screwed up and we'll likely never know what happened.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

we know the mom covered up whatever it was, and lied repeatedly and was hardly 'overcome' with grief. i wonder why she was not charged with obstruction of justice. the lying charges and sentence do not result in any addition time. she's free, now.

Chapter 843 defines various acts which constitute the crimes of obstruction of justice. Giving false information to police is not listed under that chapter. By definition, she did not commit obstruction of justice under Florida law.

Chapter 837 defines various acts which constitute perjury. Section 837.055 makes it a crime to provide false information to law enforcement authorities conducting an investigation of a missing person or a felony. She was properly charged and convicted pursuant to this statute.

 

[stephen55]

If there ever was a jury I wouldn't want to have sat on, this is it.

I agree that the prosecution failed to present the solid evidence required to achieve a conviction, especially in a case of murder one which can end with a death sentence. The jury rightly did not find Casey Anthony guilty of murder one. That said, if Casey didn't do it, then OJ didn't either. My gut feeling, while not anything admissible in court, is that Casey murdered her daughter as surely as the glove in the OJ trial belonged to OJ.

I agree that the evidence presented failed to establish beyond a reasonable doubt, that Casey murdered Caylee (or even that Caylee was murdered at all). And yes, now that Casey has been acquitted, we will likely never know what happened to that little girl.

I just can't help feeling that a more determined and professional effort by those involved in investigating this child's case might have brought both justice and closure.

As for JBJ's theory that little Caylee OD'd on mommy's stash of dope and a retired police officer (Casey's dad) was blackmailed into helping Casey cover it up...didn't JBJ just post something about speculation not being evidence?

BTW Jimbo, typing your theory in caps makes it likely true, just as episodes of House only contain cutting edge medicine.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Uh, Steve? That "Can I have my glove back?" is a punch line, not an actual quote.

The L.A. District Attorney's Office built up this supposedly ironclad case against OJ but didn't bother to figure out the timeline that it required. Cochran did and the case fell apart. When something like that happens in a high profile case, the prosecutor's career is over. Either they leave the office, the profession or end up prosecuting traffic violations. In the OJ case, both prosecutors had to find new jobs.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Chapter 843 defines various acts which constitute the crimes of obstruction of justice. Giving false information to police is not listed under that chapter. By definition, she did not commit obstruction of justice under Florida law.

Chapter 837 defines various acts which constitute perjury. Section 837.055 makes it a crime to provide false information to law enforcement authorities conducting an investigation of a missing person or a felony. She was properly charged and convicted pursuant to this statute.

The law is whatever judges say it is. A few Florida judges (retired) were on tv suggesting that obstruction of justice was the route to go as it tied together the lying and concealment of information about Caylee's death etc. These same judges say the state attorney went for the gusto rather than charges a jury would buy. In this case judge Perry allowed the jailhouse vids though Casey wasnt mirandized and the vids werent evidence.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

If there ever was a jury I wouldn't want to have sat on, this is it.

I agree that the prosecution failed to present the solid evidence required to achieve a conviction, especially in a case of murder one which can end with a death sentence. The jury rightly did not find Casey Anthony guilty of murder one. That said, if Casey didn't do it, then OJ didn't either. My gut feeling, while not anything admissible in court, is that Casey murdered her daughter as surely as the glove in the OJ trial belonged to OJ.

I agree that the evidence presented failed to establish beyond a reasonable doubt, that Casey murdered Caylee (or even that Caylee was murdered at all). And yes, now that Casey has been acquitted, we will likely never know what happened to that little girl.

I just can't help feeling that a more determined and professional effort by those involved in investigating this child's case might have brought both justice and closure.

As for JBJ's theory that little Caylee OD'd on mommy's stash of dope and a retired police officer (Casey's dad) was blackmailed into helping Casey cover it up...didn't JBJ just post something about speculation not being evidence?

BTW Jimbo, typing your theory in caps makes it likely true, just as episodes of House only contain cutting edge medicine.

But the OJ glove didnt fit. It covered his fingers but not his hand.

 

[Pure]

reply to sofla

The Florida Criminal Code at 843.06 reads as follows:

843.06 Neglect or refusal to aid peace officers.—Whoever, being required in the name of the state by any officer of the Florida Highway Patrol, police officer, beverage enforcement agent, or watchman, neglects or refuses to assist him or her in the execution of his or her office in a criminal case, or in the preservation of the peace, or the apprehending or securing of any person for a breach of the peace, or in case of the rescue or escape of a person arrested upon civil process, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083

==
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0843/0843.html

to lie to the cops [telling stories that lead to wild goose chases] is, at very least, neglecting to assist them, and arguably 'refusal' to assist them. indeed, when a child goes missing, NOT to report it for a month is also, arguably, neglecting to assist them.

 

[lovecraft68]

Many people said that Anthony made them sick with her excited reaction to the verdict. They saw it as a bitch that got away with killing her child and is thrilled she 'got off'

Two things here. One, let's say for the sake of argument she did not do it, well you would be pretty goddamn excited if you were innocent and had done 3 years and was going to get out.

On that note Anthony served three years. That is more time then many found guilty serve for various crimes (not murder of course)I know it sucks and it is not the death penalty but she did do some time.

She will also spend the rest of her life hiding from vigilante lunatics who want to 'make things right'.

Back in the DSK thread I remarked that the onus is upon the prosecution to do more work than the defense. I was told that is how it should be. Prosecution failed and their case fell apart. DSK over here anyway, will get off.

As it should be the prosecution could not do their job, perhaps DSK was innocent. Gut says no, but prove it right? Many people were not happy but oh well the woman was of ill reputation.

A child is murdered. The prosecution failed. The onus was upon them and they dropped the ball. (Well combined with Anthony's mother defaulting to not wanting to see her daughter die and mucking things up.) Now there is hue and cry. There should be, I think she did it. But it's the same system the guilty seem to walk more often than not. Gotta love it unless you want to jump borders and leave it.

These are the times when one wonders if Vigilantism and Martial law do not have merits.