"Too submissive" - submissiveness becoming a problem

[punkreader]

Submissive - both a sexual label and a separate personality trait. For me, it seems to be both. I'm quite submissive in real life, in entirely nonsexual situations. I often acquiesce to others' opinions - even when doing so is to my detriment - and I will do almost anything to please the people I love, going so far as to at times say what I think they want to hear. I'm working on it, though. But it still bothers me...

I'm sometimes told that I'm "too submissive," and that I should learn to be more assertive. I think that my over-submissiveness stems from my childhood, which...well, it wasn't very pleasant. I was subjected to parental domestic abuse by my father, a documented sociopath, narcissist, and violent alcoholic, for almost six years. The abuse was physical, verbal, and emotional - some of his favorite ways to "make me behave" (by which I mean, act like I was happy to be with him, say nothing to others, and never speak my mind or challenge him in any way) were:

• Depriving me of food, clean clothing, and bathing

• Pinning me against the wall or my bed in painful and humiliating positions and berating me untill I apologized for some unknown slight

• Keeping me isolated in his house for the weekend

• Depriving me of my critical (asthma) medication, which almost killed me more times than I'd like to remember

• Strike me, beat me, or dislocate my shoulders (which, due to a genetic condition that he passed on to me, dislocate with extreme ease, along with all the rest of my joints)

• Scream at, insult, and just generally degrade me for no real reason I could figure - for example, making me spend an entire weekend cleaning because I spilled something on the hardwood floor

• Become overattentive, watching and listening to everything I did and said, breathing down my neck except for when in the bath - he even, many times, stood over my bed and just watched me - I was feigning sleep

• Neglected me - the food, the clothes, the bathing, etc.; at times he would be like the above, and at others (most of the time), I didn't exist in any meaningful way, and was left by myself while he went off to do something - when I think back, I realize it would either have been to fuck or smoke pot

• Drinking heavily - not a single beer, not two, not three, no... he drank constantly, and drove drunk on a regular basis (which utterly terrified me), mocking me and taking his temper out on me when I asked him to stop (the drinking or driving drunk)

I think you see what I'm getting at: I was forced to be submissive, to be quiet and complacent, to keep myself alive when I had to be with him. If I spoke my mind, said that I hated being with him, the punishment was severe, and I was constantly terrified of being killed in a rage or car accident. And I hated every second of it - I didn't want to be submissive, or be a quiet victim, but at 7, 9, 11, what could I really do that wouldn't result in making it worse? I tried talking to people at school, but they made it worse by contacting him, resulting in much misery. My mom was under assault as well, all that same time. Thankfully, he is no longer my legal father, and I want absolutely nothing to do with him (although he's apparently entertaining the delusion that the protective order I have vanished when I turned 18, and that I'll run back to him the first chance I get...). However, I do have PTSD (as does my mom) from the cumulative experience, and I've noticed more and more that the submissiveness that I had to have when with him has not vanished - and it is becoming a problem.

I still have an extraordinarily difficult time speaking my mind, even when I've been given permission to do so, and assurance that nothing bad will happen; I still defer to others as a default; I don't always tell others things I should for (irrational) fear of a bad, explosive reaction; I flinch when touched in certain places (neck, back of shoulder, face, my back itself) although I'm also hypersensitive to touch, I only flinch strongly when touched in those places; I seek to please others, at almost all times. These things are problems, as they prevent me from doing my best at times - my sexual submissiveness seems to (from experimentation) come out when in similar physical situations, however, even though such similar situations also frighten me...

I don't understand - is it my brain's way of trying to cope, hanging on to the behavior that kept me alive during what should have been happy, formative years? Is it my channeling my insecurities and unresolved fears into "safe-mode" behavior? Whatever it is, it's problematic, and I'd desperately like to lessen it.

I'd like to note that, at this time, I am looking for a counselor to deal with my unresolved issues and anger. I'm also aware of my depression, which likely contributes, and which counseling should help (I'm worried about the side effects of antidepressants and would rather wait until I turn 25 to start them).

I'm fine with my sexual submissiveness, but not with my submissive behavior outside of that. Has anyone else had a similar problem? When do you think it started, and how did/are you dealing with it?

 

[YourCaptor]

That is a rough childhood. You're no longer in that situation anymore though, which of course is fantastic. You aren't broken either, childhood doesn't define you forever. Don't listen to all that Freud stuff. Listening to Freud is like going for treatment using Hippocrates humors theory. It's out of date.

You are right, you have PTSD, but that's ok, cause now that you know the issue you can deal with it directly. You can find a professional to help you with that. If you feel that those issues from your past really cause you to not be able to function at all, then please do it immediately.

Now that you are in a different environment you'll gradually learn how far you can lower your guard. You may need to push it a bit and experiment, but don't do too much, we do get those bad feeling for a reason. They are very useful actually. They shouldn't be excessive though.

Some of it may be your personality too. Some people are a bit more anxious naturally, like my mom for example It changes as we grow older, most people do become more cautious and neurotic over time. So you may not have been like that as a child.

But really the point is being comfortable, not having your thoughts return to past abuse. As for being too submissive. Wow did you come to the wrong place. No such thing. As submissiveness increases so does perfection. If it only bothers you, keep the submissiveness, it looks good on you. If you really hate it, you can work on it.

I wouldn't look at the situation as relapsing to past incidents. We have reactions, they are designed to be automated, however they are also designed to be adaptive in a changing environment. You need to teach your mind and body the appropriate reactions, and you can only do that with practice. It's not easy, and we all have flaws, but you should feel comfortable in your own skin.

 

[CutieMouse]

I would argue that your tendency to be "submissive" is actually survival instinct. Given your history and youth, I don't know that you are individualized/fully formed enough [yet] to take on the label and KNOW that's how you are/are meant to be, rather than having had those necessary survival traits burned into you.

My advice would be to work with a therapist. Are you in college? Most University programs offer free/low cost therapy; another low cost resource would be the county MHMR department. Once you've done some work to figure out where/who YOU are underneath all the abusive past, the decision to embrace submission/dominance/top/bottom/pink and purple unicorns will be you CHOOSING your path, rather than your abusive past dictating it.

 

[ownedsubgal]

welcome punkreader. reading your post struck a few familiar chords with me...the submissive personality, the abusive early life, the frustration/depression over always being taken advantage of by others, etc. however there is a major difference between us, and that is the fact that i do not view my submissive personality as an affliction for which i need to find a cure. i find it to be rare, beautiful and a huge part of what makes me me. and it saddens me a bit that you cannot see that value in submissiveness also.

i have always firmly disagreed with the idea that submissiveness must be this conscious choice, this desire one follows for their own fulfillment. what is wrong with it simply being who you are, the way you are wired, and choice simply not coming into the picture? (nothing, that's what )

however i agree with CM in that you must discover whether or not you truly are submissive by nature, or if it is simply the way you have been conditioned due to your traumatic past. but in seeking that truth you should note a little something: our own individual survival instincts do, in great part, define who we are. and by that i mean the fact that your survival instinct is submission (as is mine), should tell you that you differ from the person who experienced the same horrors but responded by acting out in violence and aggression, or by running away at the first inkling of an opportunity. and again i would urge you to stop viewing submissiveness as some ugly negative thing.

 

[Hellscumet]

Hi there,

I went through some similar experiences that left me with a very fragile sense of self for a couple of years. During that time I was very, very submissive to basically anybody, no choice whatsoever on my part. And that is the main point, I think, that makes this different from being a sub in a sm relationship.

The reason I behaved like this was twofold, one I was simply used to it and I believed that my needs didn't matter anyway. And second, it was a defense mechanism. When you agree with everything somebody wants from you, you are offering them a facade, not your real self. You create a smooth surface that serves as a barrier between you and the rest of the world.

It's a bit of a vicious cycle, really. Because since people can't know what you want and who you are, they will continue to take what you offer them, which in turn fuels your impression that this is how it should be.

Now, this is only my personal opinion and I am very, very far from being an expert on SM, but I believe that true submission in a relationship that is also loving cannot be achieved this way. Honesty and trust are very important and necesary to allow somebody so deeply under your skin that domination becomes meaningful.

What helped me realize that I am a full person, who can say no was therapy and a change of, well, everything. I moved, got a new job, got a hair cut , and decided to find out what I really wanted. And what I really couldn't stand. Some of the things I thought were unpleasant, actually ended up being very very pleasant, but they required that I open up and this was what made me back off before. It's a process, and you take one step after the other. You don't need to move, but I found that having an external reminder of my intent to change from now on, really helped me stay focused.

So, yes, as others have already suggested, a therapy would do you good. My therapist specialiced in cognitive behavioural therapy, which is more "active" than psychoanalysis. Maybe this would work well for you too?

 

[Patchouli]

welcome punkreader. reading your post struck a few familiar chords with me...the submissive personality, the abusive early life, the frustration/depression over always being taken advantage of by others, etc. however there is a major difference between us, and that is the fact that i do not view my submissive personality as an affliction for which i need to find a cure. i find it to be rare, beautiful and a huge part of what makes me me. and it saddens me a bit that you cannot see that value in submissiveness also.

i have always firmly disagreed with the idea that submissiveness must be this conscious choice, this desire one follows for their own fulfillment. what is wrong with it simply being who you are, the way you are wired, and choice simply not coming into the picture? (nothing, that's what )

however i agree with CM in that you must discover whether or not you truly are submissive by nature, or if it is simply the way you have been conditioned due to your traumatic past. but in seeking that truth you should note a little something: our own individual survival instincts do, in great part, define who we are. and by that i mean the fact that your survival instinct is submission (as is mine), should tell you that you differ from the person who experienced the same horrors but responded by acting out in violence and aggression, or by running away at the first inkling of an opportunity. and again i would urge you to stop viewing submissiveness as some ugly negative thing.

i agree. i think you need to try practicing some self acceptance. i know it's difficult. i really do. my situation was very different from yours, but my mother is very likely a woman with borderline personality disorder. i spent my entire childhood never knowing from one minute to the next how she was going to react to anything i said, did, or she thought i was saying or doing. my days were filled with emotional abuse and neglect. she never let me go without anything that was necessary, as she was acutely aware of what other people thought. but, at say...age 7 she would get mad at me for something and not talk to me for 3 days.

the neglect was less visible than denying my daily needs. as an example, she would tell every doctor that i was a hypochondriac, because i always had stomachaches. any time i transferred my medical records, each new doctor would learn that i was a hypochondriac. it wasn't until i stopped transferring my medical records that i was diagnosed with celiac disease...gee, i wonder why i always had tummyaches.

i learned how to read people. that was how i survived. i had to pay incredibly close attention to her because her moods could shift in an instant. she might be happy one minute, and livid the next. my ability to read people kept me safe. it didn't help me escape the verbal abuse, but it did help me keep the beatings infrequent.

i'm sure that i was born with abilities in this regard. i remember being aware of other people's feelings even at a young age. but, my experience with my mother made me have to hone it into a much sharper tool. i'm now the person that other people come to with their problems; friends, strangers, relatives...anyone. to be as blunt as possible, i "get it". when someone is upset, i know exactly how they feel because i can sense exactly how they feel. i don't have to rely on sympathy when i've got true empathy to use.

i wasn't aware until my 20's that i was doing something that most people couldn't do. it was a bit shocking to realize how differently i see the world. i can almost always tell when someone is lying, for instance. sometimes, i just get impressions of people when i meet them and know that they are someone to be avoided. about this, i have never been wrong.

some might think this hyperawareness of others is a curse. i've felt that way myself. i get overwhelmed with other people's stuff sometimes. parties are torture for me, so much info coming at me all at once that i can't hear myself think. but, i really do see it for what it is. it is something mostly wonderful and positive that i got out of a very crappy childhood. it helped me survive, and now helps me to cultivate wonderful friendships. sometimes it makes me feel overwhelmed, but mostly...it just makes me feel.

i agree that you need to figure out if being submissive is something that you are or something that you've been conditioned to be. does it give you joy? does it give you satisfaction? or is it a prison for you? there is nothing wrong with being submissive. it can be a gift, both to you and your partners. but, if it's not right for you, then you need to learn how to leave it behind little by little. it may take a while for the guilt to go away, but eventually you'll get to see what's pleasing to you. if it truly isn't part of who you are, you'll come to know that.

i second the counseling as well. it helped me immensely.

be well...

i hope this helped some.

 

[punkreader]

welcome punkreader. reading your post struck a few familiar chords with me...the submissive personality, the abusive early life, the frustration/depression over always being taken advantage of by others, etc. however there is a major difference between us, and that is the fact that i do not view my submissive personality as an affliction for which i need to find a cure. i find it to be rare, beautiful and a huge part of what makes me me. and it saddens me a bit that you cannot see that value in submissiveness also.

i have always firmly disagreed with the idea that submissiveness must be this conscious choice, this desire one follows for their own fulfillment. what is wrong with it simply being who you are, the way you are wired, and choice simply not coming into the picture? (nothing, that's what )

however i agree with CM in that you must discover whether or not you truly are submissive by nature, or if it is simply the way you have been conditioned due to your traumatic past. but in seeking that truth you should note a little something: our own individual survival instincts do, in great part, define who we are. and by that i mean the fact that your survival instinct is submission (as is mine), should tell you that you differ from the person who experienced the same horrors but responded by acting out in violence and aggression, or by running away at the first inkling of an opportunity. and again i would urge you to stop viewing submissiveness as some ugly negative thing.

Hi there, ownedsubgal. I don't view my submissive personality as any sort of affliction, and I find it beautiful in others. I've only recently even begun to realize what it was, what I am (or might be - confirmation, as others have noted, is needed). And I'm still kind of uncomfortable with it, though that's slowly getting better. My submissive personality itself doesn't bother me; that it's having a detrimental impact on other areas of my life does. I don't want to cure anything, but I do want to not be so submissive in settings where it's really important that I speak up for myself, voice my opinion, and get what I need to move ahead - by which I mean college, right now, and the workplace later. I see nothing wrong with a submissive personality at all, but when I've been ultra-submissive in the past (once out of the abusive situation), it's only made things worse, and harder to take care of.

I always thought that was a ridiculous idea myself. Agreed.

And I agree with you, CM, and the others on that. That's true...I hadn't thought about that. Thank you - that does help. I...don't view it as an inherently ugly or negative thing, I think it's rare and beautiful, as you said. But I don't want it to hold me back from my goals, and when it does that, it becomes something that needs adjustment (not fixing). I'm dead-set on acheiving the goals I've set for myself - I haven't let anything stop me before, and I don't plan to let anything do so now, no matter what gets thrown my way.

 

[KoPilot]

My submissive personality itself doesn't bother me; that it's having a detrimental impact on other areas of my life does. I don't want to cure anything, but I do want to not be so submissive in settings where it's really important that I speak up for myself, voice my opinion, and get what I need to move ahead - by which I mean college, right now, and the workplace later. I see nothing wrong with a submissive personality at all, but when I've been ultra-submissive in the past (once out of the abusive situation), it's only made things worse, and harder to take care of.

I think THAT is a really important realization, and a huge step in the right direction. Taking responsibility and ownership of something that you're doing that is having a negative impact on your quality of life, and perhaps future quality of life is a difficult hurdle to overcome.

For some people, following those inclinations feels healthy; for others, it does not.

Just remember that the first 15 years of your life is not who you are forever. And it's good that you're thinking about the future! I sometimes see s-types using their submissiveness as a way to avoid thinking about it-- glad to see you haven't fallen in that trap. Get some professional help, especially since it seems you do have PTSD. Maybe try working on some morning feel-good mantras in front of the mirror? I have friends that do that and swear by it. At any rate, keep looking ahead; you've got quite a bit of life to live yet! And know, deep down, that there'll be a morning where you'll wake up and think to yourself, "Today, I'm going to speak my mind. And it's going to feel great."

 

[YourCaptor]

"Today, I'm going to speak my mind. And it's going to feel great."

And most likely nobody will listen anyway, and then you gotta use a megaphone 2.3 cm from their inner ear, and even then all you’ll get is a vegetated drool, in which case you have to hold their hand and make them go through all the motions.

Don’t be afraid of people, most are kindergartners in adult form.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm honestly surprised this thread has gone the way it has. I saw it last night and thought, "Oh, honey, you're not going to get much sympathy here." But y'all have pleasantly surprised me.

I've got a kajillion things to do right now (and shouldn't even be on Lit at all), so I don't have the time to devote to this topic that I should, but, punkreader, if it makes you feel any better, I know how you feel to a large degree, minus the physical abuse part.

 

[Mmmmmm06]

I'd like to note that, at this time, I am looking for a counselor to deal with my unresolved issues and anger. I'm also aware of my depression, which likely contributes, and which counseling should help (I'm worried about the side effects of antidepressants and would rather wait until I turn 25 to start them).

I'm fine with my sexual submissiveness, but not with my submissive behavior outside of that. Has anyone else had a similar problem? When do you think it started, and how did/are you dealing with it?

First, I'd like to say that I'm happy you realize the need for counseling. I'm not so sure you recognize the urgency though. Run, don't walk. Don't debate the merits of medication vs. no medication, etc. until you've taken the first step by talking to someone. Then make that decision with your professional. Take the first step and just do it, sweetie.

You mention that you're fine with your "sexual submissiveness". I do hope you're not in any type of D/s relationship. I would be concerned it would only feed your demons at this point. Get healthy first and then go from there. Best of luck to you.

 

[CurvAppeal]

I love degradation to be honest....

I love when my Master says "You fucking pathetic worthless cunt" and he squeezes my jaw pushing my lips forward. That's hot. But I can tell by the tone of his voice, in reality, he thinks i'm the most beautiful creature that has ever stepped foot into his life. =)

That is exactly what turns me on so much. But we're all different. We all have our kwirks.

 

[Kurokami]

Y'know, it's strange: I had the whole abusive father thing ruining my life too (I'm blind in one eye, all the nerves in my right hand are completely severed, and I've had more bones broken for me than I care to remember) and to survive I had to completely submit to that fucker too... but it had the opposite effect. I guess all the anger I felt just kept piling up higher and higher until I eventually took a swing at my father, leading to the fight where I lost my sight. Actually, that was what triggered a larger "fight back" mechanism, to the point where my dad is now in prison. Different people react in different ways, I suppose.

I guess my point is that you want that counselling, dude. You really do. It helps. Maybe it won't completely cure you or anything- I still have nightmares and a phobia of deep water- but it'll straighten you out a bit inside. I'm a better person for my experiences in therapy, and I'm happy to say that I've mostly left the past behind me, as have my siblings. I hope that you can do the same, Punkreader.

Good Luck!