What irks you in a story? - a list for writers on Lit.

[punkreader]

I'm curious to know, from the writers on here: What, in a story - erotic or non-erotic - do you not like seeing?

I've seen these kinds of threads on other boards, and always find them interesting and helpful, though I've a want to improve just because I enjoy writing. I'm thinking it could be helpful to a new writer on Lit., if this thread accumulates enough responses, and even to some more experienced writers - but mainly newer ones.

I'll kick it off, I suppose, with my own list (albiet a very short one).

• 
  Poor grammar and lack of basic spelling. I know it's in the site rules, and it's something that any decent writer checks as a matter of principle, but bad grammar always turns me away. If they're common mistakes, like "they're/their/there" or "to/two/too" then I can still look past them and usually enjoy the story. But if it's in chat, text, or leetspeak, then I don't give it it a second glance. If I can't read the damn thing, what's the point. Please, make sure others can actually read your story.
  
  On that note, no space in between dialogue, paragraphs, or a different item. I'm visually-impaired, so I'm sure I notice this more quickly than some others might, but spacing indicates, in English and German, anyway, some pretty vital things in writing. Make sure your story is properly spaced so I and others can tell where you put that important paragraph break.
  
  Clear inexperience with sex, its mechanics, or some other aspect of apparently never having taken a basic sexual education class. It's fine if you don't have any experience with sex - I don't, myself. But I read a lot about it, check my information, and ask lots of what are likely seen as embarassing questions. And it's paid off - my writing featuring sex is generally seen as good, and I've had people on other sites ask me if I'm really a virgin thanks to my writing, along with more common praise. I am, but I enjoy the implied compliment that the question has. Even if you're inexperienced, make sure you know what you're writing about, and how people feel before, during, and after whatever acts you plan to write.

That's all I'll write for now, but I'll probably post more later. Don't feel shy about adding repeats of something someone else has said - it counts as reenforcement! So, thoughts, anyone? Post away!

 

[Stella_Omega]

I would love to see someone who was inexperienced, write about being inexperienced.

Make a character who hasn't done anything yet, let them think about what they would like to do and what they think that would be like... A whole side of 'writing what you know" that people rarely think about.

 

[SamScribble]

If I’m reading for entertainment, I like my reading to be easy. So, yes, grammar, spelling, formatting – they are all important.

But I also like simple language. The moment I hit a paragraph or two overburdened with modifiers, I start to wonder what else I could be doing that might be more rewarding.

And lately, I find I get irked by writers who are determined to avoid simple dialogue tags. He said and she said work just fine, most of the time. All this declaring and affirming and asserting and … well, I think you know what I mean.

‘Keep it simple’ works for me.

Sam

 

[roomfor1more]

Things that irk me in a story includes:

• switching between first person, I, and second person, you, in a story
• characters names suddenly change
• new characters suddenly appear
• stories written in second person
• bad grammar
• a story with poor logical construction (e.g. events happening out of sequence)
• switching between tenses
• abrupt changes in a story
• long stories
• a lot of unnecessary content that makes the story a lot longer than necessary
• starting more than one sentence in the same paragraph with the same word
• overuse of the same word in a story

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Generally speaking. when a writer knows how to do something right but does it wrong THAT annoys me plenty.

I'm reading a wonderful novel yet the first chapter is so bad I almost tossed the book in the trash. There is such a glaring difference tween chapter one and two that youre forced to wonder why the writer didnt leave out or change chapter one. Maybe the editor did the mischief.

 

[lovecraft68]

Seeing where we are my answer will be based on what gets me in erotica. A complete suspension of reality.

I know its fiction. I know it is fantasy and has some suspension of reality but let's be a little real sometimes.

I hate incest stories whose plot is a s simplae as. "One day I looked at sis and thought damn! so I fucked her. Usually by chapter two of these stories the entore family is involved.

Women who are "meek" and inexperienced suddenly not only fucking the football team but has moves Jena Jameson has not seen yet.

Same girl who has never given a blowjob deep throating a 10 inch cock.

10 inch cocks. a lot of crappy stories feature over endowed men Also see above because every woman can always deep throat one that big.

The loving wives premise that every man wants to see his wife gangbanged,

The stereo typed "big black cock" every black man has the aforementioned 10" cock'

overly creative sexual descriptions. There was a thread talking about using new words for the standard porn words, But when I read things like, the "musky scent of her oozing sex cave" I'm thinking just say dripping pussy will ya?

My number one pet peeve in erotica is ridiculous dialogue. I know a lot of people read for stroke and I know in reality people will occasionally say something a little stupid and be repetitive but some of what I read here is so bad it kills the mood,

"Oh Matt I want your cock, oh how I love this cock, oh Matt give me that cock!"
"Oh fuck me, oh yes! just fuck me I need to get fucked oh you..."

The number one within my number one is this; used when people are cumming,

"Ohhhhhh arrrrrrrrghhhhhh! ughhhhh urrggggg Ummm ohhhhhhh ohhhhhh Gooooodddddddd!"

Just say moaning or screaming or "began making incoherant noises" if you must

The other way sounds like priests of Cthulhu performing a ritual.

 

[oggbashan]

Have a look at the Authors' Hangout Chain Story - The Worst Chain Story Ever. I started it. We tried to write badly and succeeded. Apart from the bad writing, some chapters were never written so it has sequential flaws.

The work of DurtGurl consortium is also worth a mention. You could start with this impressive How To.

Og

 

[TheeGoatPig]

The number one within my number one is this; used when people are cumming,

"Ohhhhhh arrrrrrrrghhhhhh! ughhhhh urrggggg Ummm ohhhhhhh ohhhhhh Gooooodddddddd!"

Just say moaning or screaming or "began making incoherant noises" if you must

The other way sounds like priests of Cthulhu performing a ritual.

Quite.... Nobody is supposed to know about that...



__

I hate it when stories rely on blackmail to get their characters moving. I could never be blackmailed (if I were famous I call a press conference and own up to anything just to spite a blackmailer), and I hate how easily some of these stories have their characters be extorted. There's no real leverage in some of them, but something is being hung over the character's head (other than a 10 inch cock ), and they have to follow all the whims of this halfwit blackmailer now.

I really hate that.

 

[lovecraft68]

One thing I left out and just now as I am working through the rough draft of my latest story caught myself doing.

One thing I tend to notice when reading erotica is the infamous "where did her panties go?".

If you dress and undress your character you need to explain where it all went. Somewhere in the writers resources there is an essay that mentions this.

Personally I very much get into some clothing being left on so I pay close attention to what the author says the woman is wearing. Many times near the end the girl who was wearing red stiletto's is now barefoot. Or the guy is just "slipping it in" and there is no mention of a thong being pulled to the side or the panties coming off. Pisses me off every time.

As I said I caught myself on this this morning. The main character works in a sleazy strip club and I describe her getting dressed. Later when she is on one of the stages in a private room some guys pay her to fuck the "birthday boy" on stage. She reaches into the top of her boot and removes a condom.

This is how I initially wrote this, then this morning, on my first go through I stopped and said "Where the fuck di she get the damn condom?" I went back and had her slip it into her boot when she got dressed.

I think that is why this pisses me off it is an easy catch on you "passes" through your work and a decent editor should catch it as well. My thing is I wonder how many people would wonder as they read it.

And for anyone wondering about the suspension of belief of a stripper fucking a guy on stage in Rhode Island up until last year indoor prostitution was legal and goddamn was their some crazy shit going on in the sleazier clubs. Ummm not that I would know firsthand, these are just things someone told me.

Mini rant: Sure legalize Marijuana. Distribute a narcotic to "sick" people who will invariably sell it on the street but heaven forbid a girl sells her pussy!

 

[AlmostAlice]

Agree with pretty much everything lovecraft68 said.

One thing that I've been coming across more than once recently - a long set-up followed by a couple of paragraphs of hasty sex at the end. I like a slow-burner as much as the next person but it is extremely frustrating to read a story with no or little pay-off. Maybe it's the fist part of a multi-chapter story that hasn't been published, but that's no excuse. If you don't have the follow-up, don't post a chapter that is all set-up and five lines of IKEA sex.

 

[oggbashan]

One thing I left out and just now as I am working through the rough draft of my latest story caught myself doing.

One thing I tend to notice when reading erotica is the infamous "where did her panties go?".

If you dress and undress your character you need to explain where it all went. Somewhere in the writers resources there is an essay that mentions this.

...

It is too easy to overcompensate and include too much detail of the actions.

One of my friends had an unfortunate habit of getting his characters to "turn to speak" to a different character. The poor hero was turning like a top when there was more than one other character present.

I don't think you need to be so precise about clothing removal (unless you are writing for lingerie fetishists). As with other writing scenarios, less is often more if you give a hint of the flavour of the undressing. "He unclasped her bra and let it fall. Their clothes dropped to the floor as their hands explored bare skin..."

The extreme example of too much information is Bulwer-Lytton's infamous opening "It was a dark and stormy night..."

You don't need to explain how the hero enters a room - He listens intently, carefully grasps the door handle, pushes it quietly downwards, eases the door open slowly, releases the handle making sure it doesn't click, walks through the doorway, gently pushes the door closed behind him ensuring that it shuts silently but securely and then walks on tiptoe across the room to the bed where the apparently sleeping heroine is invitingly displayed.

If the reader gets the impression that the hero goes into her room quietly - that's enough.

Og

 

[PennLady]

Oooooh... where to begin...

Well, I've been all over this in various threads so I won't repeat everything, especially since I agree with much of what others have said

-- poor grammar, punctuation, etc., is a total turn off no matter the genre. If you want me to read it, you can take the time to make it readable.

-- factual errors
I was reading a hockey romance by Rachel Gibson (a print book) and came across a number of STUPID errors, like players receiving three-minute penalties. Gah. That was like reading a book where they had four outs in an inning of baseball (yeah, I know, technically possible; my hub is a baseball guy, but you know what I mean). There are plenty of resources for these kind of factual issues.

-- inconsistent characters
Not necessarily a shy one who's suddenly hot in the sack, but just characters behaving out of character. I don't mind changes in the characters, but you need to lay the foundation for the change(s).

-- short, stacked women
I know they're out there and I know they read and write erotica, but I do get tired of a the 5' woman with the DD chest.

-- tall, over-endowed men
The opposite of the above, with whom they are often paired.

-- too many adverbs. I don't think most writers realize that from what they've given us about a character, we can figure if someone was quiet, or not, or whatever.

-- too many adverbs paired with dialogue tags. That gets really annoying. Just go with "said."

and with that... I'm off.

 

[lovecraft68]

It is too easy to overcompensate and include too much detail of the actions.

One of my friends had an unfortunate habit of getting his characters to "turn to speak" to a different character. The poor hero was turning like a top when there was more than one other character present.

I don't think you need to be so precise about clothing removal (unless you are writing for lingerie fetishists). As with other writing scenarios, less is often more if you give a hint of the flavour of the undressing. "He unclasped her bra and let it fall. Their clothes dropped to the floor as their hands explored bare skin..."

The extreme example of too much information is Bulwer-Lytton's infamous opening "It was a dark and stormy night..."

You don't need to explain how the hero enters a room - He listens intently, carefully grasps the door handle, pushes it quietly downwards, eases the door open slowly, releases the handle making sure it doesn't click, walks through the doorway, gently pushes the door closed behind him ensuring that it shuts silently but securely and then walks on tiptoe across the room to the bed where the apparently sleeping heroine is invitingly displayed.

If the reader gets the impression that the hero goes into her room quietly - that's enough.

Og

I am awkward with that myself except I don;t have them turning. I keep doing "he looked up at me, he looked away from me, he looked down." Apparently my characters have lazy eye!

 

[manyeyedhydra]

-- too many adverbs. I don't think most writers realize that from what they've given us about a character, we can figure if someone was quiet, or not, or whatever.

-- too many adverbs paired with dialogue tags. That gets really annoying. Just go with "said."

I think these two criticisms are used far too often by 'serious' writers wanting to have a good sneer at the JK Rowlings, etc.

Adverbs are simple. If there's a single word that conveys the same meaning, use it. If there isn't and you want to modify the verb to convey additional information, use an adverb. It's what they exist for.

Same rules apply for dialogue tags.

I agree some people use them too often, and it looks especially bad when they use them in place of a perfectly fine single verb, but going to the other extreme and eliminating them altogether out of a misplaced sense of 'superior' style is just as bad IMHO.

 

[PennLady]

I think these two criticisms are used far too often by 'serious' writers wanting to have a good sneer at the JK Rowlings, etc.

Adverbs are simple. If there's a single word that conveys the same meaning, use it. If there isn't and you want to modify the verb to convey additional information, use an adverb. It's what they exist for.

Same rules apply for dialogue tags.

I agree some people use them too often, and it looks especially bad when they use them in place of a perfectly fine single verb, but going to the other extreme and eliminating them altogether out of a misplaced sense of 'superior' style is just as bad IMHO.

Well, I'd disagree. I've seen this in a number of places. And for the record, I enjoyed all the Harry Potter books. In truth, it was Stephen King who put me onto the tags and adverb thing, in his book "On Writing." He's hardly "high-brow."

I am not saying I never use adjectives, because I do, for the reason you state. If I can't find the one word that gets it across, then I will go with an adverb. Same for dialogue tags. I do use them, but I try to be judicious (and this has a lot to do with my e-book editor, who hates them in many situations) and don't use them more than I have to. However, if you go back to some of my early stories, like Make a Wish, I think it's pretty easy to say I overused dialogue tags.

It's not a matter of style, superior or otherwise, at least not entirely. And to be clear, what I object to is too many adverbs, and too many dialogue tags. I've read stories where every line of dialogue is accompanied by a tag with an adverb. That's annoying.

Oh, and another irk: dialogue tags that aren't, like:

"I didn't know that," he smiled laughingly.

Smiled is not a speech word.

 

[MarlowBunny]

"I didn't know that," he smiled laughingly.

Smiled is not a speech word.

How about the following:

"I didn't know that." He smiled laughingly.

 

[PennLady]

How about the following:

"I didn't know that." He smiled laughingly.

Better, much better, but I'd leave off the "laughingly." For one thing, I'm not sure how one can smile laughingly. But also, that wasn't a great word choice on my part. I'd probably say something like:

"I didn't know that." He smiled and laughed. (or laughed and smiled).
or
"I didn't know that," he said with a smile.
or
"I didn't know that." He gave knowing smile.

 

[michchick98]

Well, I'd disagree. I've seen this in a number of places. And for the record, I enjoyed all the Harry Potter books. In truth, it was Stephen King who put me onto the tags and adverb thing, in his book "On Writing." He's hardly "high-brow."

I am not saying I never use adjectives, because I do, for the reason you state. If I can't find the one word that gets it across, then I will go with an adverb. Same for dialogue tags. I do use them, but I try to be judicious (and this has a lot to do with my e-book editor, who hates them in many situations) and don't use them more than I have to. However, if you go back to some of my early stories, like Make a Wish, I think it's pretty easy to say I overused dialogue tags.

It's not a matter of style, superior or otherwise, at least not entirely. And to be clear, what I object to is too many adverbs, and too many dialogue tags. I've read stories where every line of dialogue is accompanied by a tag with an adverb. That's annoying.

Oh, and another irk: dialogue tags that aren't, like:

"I didn't know that," he smiled laughingly.

Smiled is not a speech word.

Not so much overuse of adverbs for me, but overuse of punctuation will get to me. I read one author a few years back, not on here (it was a book I bought online) who loved using exclamation marks in her dialogue and her narrative. Kinda jarring after awhile.

Oh and overall poor editing. I can overlook a few minor mistakes, but when a print book or e-book is riddled with them, it annoys me. Gives me the impression the author and publisher don't care about the reader and just wanted to get the story out there to make money. That's great, but how much money will it make if it's unreadable or if the editing is so poor it pulls the reader OUT of the story?

Lastly, consistency is a big thing with me. Of course, this might go along with editing. I've read stories on here and SOL as well as print and e-books where characters hair color or eye color changes from one chapter to the next. In one particular series I remember, the background was explained about one of the main characters who was recurring throughout the four book series. In the first two books, she was from Minnesota. In the third and fourth, she was from Michigan.

I'm pretty flexible otherwise.

 

[Firebrain]

I shall be blogging on this shortly, but my current number one pet hate is contrived and improper descriptions of eyes.

So here's a few things eyes don't do:

Penetrate
Rake
Pierce
Glitter
Smoulder
Smile
Gleam

Now if only a few writers used these words, it might work, figuratively speaking. But when every frickin' romance writer uses them, it just sucks away their voice and makes them look lazy. There are a billion ways to describe eyes if you feel like getting fancy--so pick your own. You wouldn't plagiarise any other way to describe things.

Am also not liking gaze as a noun right now. Somehow feels wrong (and is mentioned too much in romance, again).

 

[manyeyedhydra]

Well, I'd disagree. I've seen this in a number of places. And for the record, I enjoyed all the Harry Potter books. In truth, it was Stephen King who put me onto the tags and adverb thing, in his book "On Writing." He's hardly "high-brow."

I am not saying I never use adjectives, because I do, for the reason you state. If I can't find the one word that gets it across, then I will go with an adverb. Same for dialogue tags. I do use them, but I try to be judicious (and this has a lot to do with my e-book editor, who hates them in many situations) and don't use them more than I have to. However, if you go back to some of my early stories, like Make a Wish, I think it's pretty easy to say I overused dialogue tags.

It's not a matter of style, superior or otherwise, at least not entirely. And to be clear, what I object to is too many adverbs, and too many dialogue tags. I've read stories where every line of dialogue is accompanied by a tag with an adverb. That's annoying.

I think we're saying the same thing. There's a time and a place for them, but don't overuse.

Oh, and another irk: dialogue tags that aren't, like:

"I didn't know that," he smiled laughingly.

Smiled is not a speech word.

I'm back and forth on this.

The grammatically correct versions are long-winded and clunky, or break up the flow with period road bumps.

I don't mind a bit of sloppiness here if it's more compact and improves readability, so long as the meaning's still clear. It might irk the purists, but so long as it doesn't bother the majority of readers it's probably okay.

 

[jomar]

Generally speaking. when a writer knows how to do something right but does it wrong THAT annoys me plenty.

I'm reading a wonderful novel yet the first chapter is so bad I almost tossed the book in the trash. There is such a glaring difference tween chapter one and two that youre forced to wonder why the writer didnt leave out or change chapter one. Maybe the editor did the mischief.

Reminds me of feedback I once got on the SDC!

 

[manyeyedhydra]

I shall be blogging on this shortly, but my current number one pet hate is contrived and improper descriptions of eyes.

So here's a few things eyes don't do:

Penetrate
Rake
Pierce
Glitter
Smoulder
Smile
Gleam

Now if only a few writers used these words, it might work, figuratively speaking. But when every frickin' romance writer uses them, it just sucks away their voice and makes them look lazy. There are a billion ways to describe eyes if you feel like getting fancy--so pick your own. You wouldn't plagiarise any other way to describe things.

Am also not liking gaze as a noun right now. Somehow feels wrong (and is mentioned too much in romance, again).

I think there's a deficiency in the English language around eyes/gaze/area-some-being-is-looking-at that forces writers to either break the rules or tie themselves in knots trying to create a grammatically pure convoluted sentence explaining something very simple.

I think this was an example I saw used a while back:

"His eyes slid down her dress."

I'm guessing the author doesn't mean it in the literal and rather icky eyeballs-sliding-down-the-poor-woman sense.

How to write it in a technically correct way?

Replace 'eyes' with 'gaze' (the verb as noun abuse)?

Or we could go with this lumbering monstrosity:

"The point his eyes were focused on moved down her dress."

Blegh. Knots. Awkward.

Same with:

"He stared at her with piercing eyes."

Yep, eyeballs aren't really piercing. They're sort of soft and gooey actually.

But the replacement?

"He stared at her and it was like he was looking right into her thoughts."

Long-winded.

Readability over technicalities for me, I'm afraid.

 

[Firebrain]

Readability over technicalities for me, I'm afraid.

And originality and talent over laziness and excuses for me

 

[manyeyedhydra]

And originality and talent over laziness and excuses for me

Laziness is good. Lazy people invent all the cool things because they get fed up of the old long-winded ways of doing things.

I'm sure the first person who used the 'piercing eyes' description was hailed as quite a wordsmith.

Eyes are gooey! They can't be... Oh wait, that's so deep.

Of course, after several thousand people have splattered it onto the page it starts to look a little worn.

BTW, if you have a better fit for the "Eyes slid down the dress" sentence, please let me know. I always end up getting tied in knots with that whole eyes/gaze thing.

 

[estragon]

Mark Twain: "As to the adverb: when in doubt, strike it out." Back to the original point, and at the risk of rattling sr's cage, I hate "Wanted Poster" stories, where the protagonist engages in a lengthy physical description of her/himself. Mies van der Rohe was right: less is more.

And spelling/grammar/syntax errors rile me. If the writer thinks his/her story is worth writing, why not write it right? Our crazy English spelling and grammar is difficult, I know, but one of the all-time greats didn't learn this language until he was twenty years old, and grew up speaking Polish--Joseph Conrad by name.

But if the writer has a good story, shows promise for more and better writing, and the grammar/spelling/syntax errors reflect the heat of inspiration, I'll quibble the story.