Yale suspends Bush's Fraternity

[cloudy]

Damn...stereotype much?

I can't wait til y'all start protesting when someone stereotypes a group you belong to so I can see y'all start screaming about it.

Hypocrites.

 

[PennLady]

This fraternity is going to do what all fraternities do when they get in a jam. There will be a meeting, where the fraternity bylaws are examined. Rule #17, which states, "What happens in the house, stays in the house." will be amended to add, "for real, this time, okay".

Amendment: "Unless it seems like a good idea at the time."

 

[PennLady]

Respect for women is instilled when a child is still a child and is a combination of having a father who respects the mother and a mother that demands respect.

Agreed.

Now who is at fault here? The kid for being such an ignorant ahole (frat boy) or the girl for having such low self esteem she thinks she needs this prick and doesn't deserve to be treated better.

Answer? His asshole parents and her parents as well.

You know, things like this just show that you have as many prejudices as you perceive those on "the other side" to have against you.

Maybe they had a bet and she lost. Maybe she felt she owed him for something nice he'd done for her. Maybe she wanted to do it herself so that she knew how to do it in the future. (My mom hates to pump gas; luckily for her, she lives in NJ, where it's still full-serve.) Maybe she just offered to be nice, and he was beat, and accepted her offer.

As for the no-dating rule, well, fine, if your daughter is good with it. I never dated a frat guy, but I wouldn't tar all frat guys with the same brush. Presumably you wouldn't want people doing such a thing to you, or your daughters.

I admit that when we're together, my husband pumps the gas. When I'm alone or alone with the kids, I do it. And if he was really tired, or whatever, I'd have no problem doing it.

As per usual, we're all getting off track. If the Bushes are still active in this fraternity, then I would hope that above all, they would be ashamed and embarrassed.

 

[lovecraft68]

Agreed.



You know, things like this just show that you have as many prejudices as you perceive those on "the other side" to have against you.

Maybe they had a bet and she lost. Maybe she felt she owed him for something nice he'd done for her. Maybe she wanted to do it herself so that she knew how to do it in the future. (My mom hates to pump gas; luckily for her, she lives in NJ, where it's still full-serve.) Maybe she just offered to be nice, and he was beat, and accepted her offer.

As for the no-dating rule, well, fine, if your daughter is good with it. I never dated a frat guy, but I wouldn't tar all frat guys with the same brush. Presumably you wouldn't want people doing such a thing to you, or your daughters.

I admit that when we're together, my husband pumps the gas. When I'm alone or alone with the kids, I do it. And if he was really tired, or whatever, I'd have no problem doing it.

As per usual, we're all getting off track. If the Bushes are still active in this fraternity, then I would hope that above all, they would be ashamed and embarrassed.

If she lost a bet that would be fine on a decent day, in the pouring rain the guy does it. This is why although chivalry may not be dead it is barely breathing.

There was a movie called the Bronx tale and in it the young kid is seeing a black girl which was pretty taboo for the time and especially for the Italians.

Deneiro's advice to the kid was that if she were the one then when he lets her in the car first, a good woman then leans over and unlocks the door for you. Sounds dumb but there are a lot of little signs that can tell you about a person.

If you were approaching a door with your arms full does someone wait and hold it open or do the yjust let it go in your face.

Things like the gas incident say a lot. By the way the kid denied nothing did not stick for himself just sat there smirking.

I'm a two way street judge me all you want. Funny how freedom of speech only gets tossed around when everyone agrees and likes what they hear.

 

[lovecraft68]

Damn...stereotype much?

I can't wait til y'all start protesting when someone stereotypes a group you belong to so I can see y'all start screaming about it.

Hypocrites.

I'm a high school drop out with a bit of a checkered past, follow the teachings of Anton Levay and have a shit load of tattoos and a habit of shooting my mouth off. I get sterotyped plenty. My wifes family (very goody goody bunch of old school Italians not the mobster type the "you look hungry!" type) was not thrilled with her choice specially because I was divorced with two kids. The ythought iwas trouble wrong side of the tracks all that.

her sister married a very smooth sales rep from a decent size company educated smooth talker great guy! Why couldn't Gina marry someone like him? Mr wonderful was found too have two mistresses and had fathered another kid we also found out much too late that he beat my sister in law. Yet I was the one too watch. I know all about stereotyping.

For the record I stereotype men, especially certain types of men the same way you do.

I also have had similiar conversations with you and that in your opinion me thinking the girl shouldn't be pumping gas is me saying the woman is to weak to pump her own gas and needs a man to do it.

I agree and disagree on that. Women can do anything a guy can but in a lot of cases why the hell should they? Nothing wrong with showing some manners and upbrinigng.

 

[PennLady]

If she lost a bet that would be fine on a decent day, in the pouring rain the guy does it. This is why although chivalry may not be dead it is barely breathing.

There was a movie called the Bronx tale and in it the young kid is seeing a black girl which was pretty taboo for the time and especially for the Italians.

Deneiro's advice to the kid was that if she were the one then when he lets her in the car first, a good woman then leans over and unlocks the door for you. Sounds dumb but there are a lot of little signs that can tell you about a person.

If you were approaching a door with your arms full does someone wait and hold it open or do the yjust let it go in your face.

Things like the gas incident say a lot. By the way the kid denied nothing did not stick for himself just sat there smirking.

I'm a two way street judge me all you want. Funny how freedom of speech only gets tossed around when everyone agrees and likes what they hear.

Oh for heaven's sake I didn't say anything about freedom of speech. It did occur to me, though, that maybe the kid just didn't care for a stranger to be getting in his business for no reason and so he ignored you. I would have. He didn't need to stick up for himself; it was none of your business.

What you're describing -- opening doors, etc. -- is just nice, courteous behavior, and should cross genders. I hold doors for people, and I certainly appreciate it when they do for me, and when my husband does nice little things for me as well.

I still don't see the big deal about the woman pumping gas. For one thing, most gas stations I've seen have the pumps under some kind of roof, so I'm guessing she wasn't just standing in the rain. Maybe it was her car. Maybe he offered and she refused. Chivalry is fine, but you were making judgments on what you saw -- and you may have been wrong.

 

[bronzeage]

Oh for heaven's sake I didn't say anything about freedom of speech. It did occur to me, though, that maybe the kid just didn't care for a stranger to be getting in his business for no reason and so he ignored you. I would have. He didn't need to stick up for himself; it was none of your business.

What you're describing -- opening doors, etc. -- is just nice, courteous behavior, and should cross genders. I hold doors for people, and I certainly appreciate it when they do for me, and when my husband does nice little things for me as well.

I still don't see the big deal about the woman pumping gas. For one thing, most gas stations I've seen have the pumps under some kind of roof, so I'm guessing she wasn't just standing in the rain. Maybe it was her car. Maybe he offered and she refused. Chivalry is fine, but you were making judgments on what you saw -- and you may have been wrong.

Many years ago, I was a mechanic in a discount store auto center. Our shop doors opened onto the parking lot. It irritated us when someone drove up and expected us to walkout to their car. We thought it was rude and disrespectful, especially if they honked the horn.

One day a car pulled up and the man yelled, "Hey!". The Service Writer was inside and we were all working, so he was ignored. After a few more "heys", I saw the car door open. A crutch tip hit the pavement, followed by another crutch, followed by one foot. Between the two crutches and one leg, he made it to the service desk, where all decent customers were served.

 

[PennLady]

I also have had similiar conversations with you and that in your opinion me thinking the girl shouldn't be pumping gas is me saying the woman is to weak to pump her own gas and needs a man to do it.

I agree and disagree on that. Women can do anything a guy can but in a lot of cases why the hell should they? Nothing wrong with showing some manners and upbrinigng.

I never thought you were saying the woman was too 'weak' to do anything. I'd ask why shouldn't a woman pump the gas, even in the rain? Like I said -- you have no idea what happened before that, and got into a situation that was none of your business. I wouldn't have appreciated it if I was pumping gas and you got into my husband's face about it.

And fine -- you're a contradiction in terms. Lots of tattoos but a nice guy underneath it all. Fine. But there are plenty of guys who look like you and aren't nice guys. And there plenty of your former BIL's examples, and plenty of nice, well-dressed guys who are, in fact, nice guys.

 

[PennLady]

Many years ago, I was a mechanic in a discount store auto center. Our shop doors opened onto the parking lot. It irritated us when someone drove up and expected us to walkout to their car. We thought it was rude and disrespectful, especially if they honked the horn.

One day a car pulled up and the man yelled, "Hey!". The Service Writer was inside and we were all working, so he was ignored. After a few more "heys", I saw the car door open. A crutch tip hit the pavement, followed by another crutch, followed by one foot. Between the two crutches and one leg, he made it to the service desk, where all decent customers were served.

See, to me this is different. You had no way of knowing that the guy was on crutches, and unless he'd called in advance to let you know, I can't blame you for not going out if that was the policy.

I will admit I'm a bit on the fence about it, generally. I'd think if someone went on for a while like that, it might be worth figuring they had a reason why and going to check. Still, I also think that someone with a problem like that owes it to themselves to call ahead or whatever and make arrangements.

 

[bronzeage]

See, to me this is different. You had no way of knowing that the guy was on crutches, and unless he'd called in advance to let you know, I can't blame you for not going out if that was the policy.

I will admit I'm a bit on the fence about it, generally. I'd think if someone went on for a while like that, it might be worth figuring they had a reason why and going to check. Still, I also think that someone with a problem like that owes it to themselves to call ahead or whatever and make arrangements.

There was no real policy, one way or the other. If an attractive young lady had driven up, I probably would have walked out and said, "May I help you?"

My attitude at the time was "Fuck you, you old bastard. Get out of your car, just like everybody else." I was just being a dick about it.

 

[PennLady]

There was no real policy, one way or the other. If an attractive young lady had driven up, I probably would have walked out and said, "May I help you?"

My attitude at the time was "Fuck you, you old bastard. Get out of your car, just like everybody else." I was just being a dick about it.

LOL Well, now I see. Guess I would have had to walk up.

Still, I don't think that was anything terrible. You had no way of knowing the guy was on crutches.

 

[sr71plt]

Check what out? I don't really care, All I said was it was Bush's former fraternity, all other fraternities I know of, Alumni have some influence, official or otherwise, don't see why this is any different.

Who do you think you are kidding? The whole reason you posted this because it was Bush's fraternity. Why make the connection if that wasn't the point of posting?

 

[sr71plt]

Don't bother arguing with SR he is a conformist people like Bush are his heroes and fraternities like that are his role models. Perfect little assholes raised by perfect little assholes who can do no wrong.'

It takes balls to call out the privelaged. You are dealing with someone who lost his somewhere along the line and spends his time yessing authority to death like a bobblehead.

Thing is fraternities like that are all about tradition so the question is did Bush do it too and does he condone it? I think we both know the answer there.

Ah, back to out-of-the-blue harrassment mode are we?

Bush my hero? You don't pay much attention to the thread discussions, do you?

"privelaged?"

 

[lovecraft68]

I never thought you were saying the woman was too 'weak' to do anything. I'd ask why shouldn't a woman pump the gas, even in the rain? Like I said -- you have no idea what happened before that, and got into a situation that was none of your business. I wouldn't have appreciated it if I was pumping gas and you got into my husband's face about it.

And fine -- you're a contradiction in terms. Lots of tattoos but a nice guy underneath it all. Fine. But there are plenty of guys who look like you and aren't nice guys. And there plenty of your former BIL's examples, and plenty of nice, well-dressed guys who are, in fact, nice guys.

Umm I think you thought I was speaking to you I thought i was "speaking" to Cloudy as far as the "weaker sex" remarks. She once got very upset with me because I made a comment that in a violent situation a man should protect a woman.

Her take is there are women like her who can defend themselves and i was saying all women are defenseless. That was not my point my point was that as a man I feel that if I ever saw a woman in trouble that I should help.

Both of my daughters are black belts (well the 18 year old takes her test in four months but she will ace it) but still i would like to think if god forbid they were attacked someone would help.

Honestly I am not really a contradiction in terms. I am admittedly not that nice of a guy in general. i am however very good to my wife, my kids and those that are good to me. Aside from that I have a bit of an everyman for themselves mentality.

I did grow up in a family of abusive losers however and it made me very conscious of how a lady should be treated. So i tend to be nicer to women. I get a lot of pussy whipped jokes and some guys think I'm gay because my knuckles don;t drag when I walk and I tend to hate your average redneck loser.

As for this kid this morning all I can say to you is that it was a bit of an intangible thing. If you were there and saw it you would know that at least in this case i was right. It was in the look on his face, the posture the car the clothes the attitude. Ever people watch? You can get a good sense of people rather quickly gut instinct maybe.

We are off topic as always but as for stereo typing a fraternity is a club comprised of like minded individuals. In the case of this frat house if there was a guy sitting there saying "well gee that's not right" he would be booted.

High end fraternities like the kind at Yale and Duke have a certain "type" they take, a pure bred their "kind" so to speak. So to me it is easy to lump them all into one dirty little pile.

In the thread about the Loser from France Boxlicker brought up the Duke case where the kids were innocent. Everyone wanted to see them crucified because the average person knows them for the privileged little snots they are. People are tired of these assholes. I think a street kid who gets a scholarship and works his ass off and works through school is ten times the person one of these kids are. daddy's money, daddy's car and daddy's total disregard for anything else. especially women frat boys like this "use women" they are just sex toys to them something to degrade.

I'll repeat a little story I told in that thread. The reason my daughters do not date frat boys. My oldest who goes to a community college (her mom let her quit then she got a GED so best she could do) Met this dink from Brown University third generation grandpa and dad are doctors he will be a doctor. I should be excited yeah? Well no just suspicious.

My daughter goes to a party with him and some friends during the party her and another girl see him and a friend circling girls and hovering near the drinks and putting things in them. The friend and my daughter called the police. The other kid was arrested "doc jr" somehow was innocent! Surpise!

My daughter tells him she's done he can't believe it! Keeps calling her finally leaves a message that a white trash slut should be happy to be with him. Well I tell her give him a call and get him to the house. I took him down stairs into the room where all my karate trophy's are and showed him first the .357 then the hollowpoint I had carved his name into. He has not been around since and hence the no frat boy rule.

her new boyfriend goes to her school drives a fifteen year old car and works his ass off. and most of all treats my daughter well. take him over one of the Frat's any day of the week.

All frat kids aren't jerks but once something like that happen there is no reason to take the chance. Sorry really rambling here. One of these days down the line when I square away a situation I am working on I might post the real reason I feel the non consent category should be banned but that's another story.

 

[PennLady]

High end fraternities like the kind at Yale and Duke have a certain "type" they take, a pure bred their "kind" so to speak. So to me it is easy to lump them all into one dirty little pile.

And you would know this because...?

In the thread about the Loser from France Boxlicker brought up the Duke case where the kids were innocent. Everyone wanted to see them crucified because the average person knows them for the privileged little snots they are. People are tired of these assholes.

Doesn't matter if they were snots. THEY WERE INNOCENT. That should be the deciding factor, not whether you like them or not.

her new boyfriend goes to her school drives a fifteen year old car and works his ass off. and most of all treats my daughter well. take him over one of the Frat's any day of the week.

All frat kids aren't jerks but once something like that happen there is no reason to take the chance. Sorry really rambling here. One of these days down the line when I square away a situation I am working on I might post the real reason I feel the non consent category should be banned but that's another story.

Kudos to you for tarring all frat guys with one brush because of one incident. Like non-frat guys don't do the same. What an open-minded guy you are. And I'm unimpressed with the gun story. I'd run the other way, too. No reason to take a chance? Please. So, then by the same token, if a guy like you -- tattoos, bad rep, etc. -- treats a woman badly, it's okay if everyone assumes guys that look like that are like that? God, where does it end? I guess it doesn't.

I don't actually care why you think non-con should be banned. You've gone on many times before about how your friend was raped, how you beat the guy up and got sent to jail. Way to go -- do something illegal; cause worry to your friends and family. If you don't like non-con, don't read it. And again, there's something ironic about you wanting non-con banned when you write about incest, which is illegal.

If you don't want to read non-con, then don't. And if you don't want to publish on a site that allows it, then don't.

 

[xssve]

Who do you think you are kidding? The whole reason you posted this because it was Bush's fraternity. Why make the connection if that wasn't the point of posting?

So now you're telling me what I think?

Tell you what, it's a free country: you make of it what you will, and I'll make of it what I will - that work for you?


Dumbass.

 

[sr71plt]

So now you're telling me what I think?

Tell you what, it's a free country: you make of it what you will, and I'll make of it what I will - that work for you?


Dumbass.

Why are you trying to hide what you obviously meant by this thread? Embarrassed by it?

It's a free country, but this is a private writer's site--to which you contribute nothing for the privilege of posting irrelevant and provocative posts. Which makes you a parasite and a drone.

Once again, you must do this because you are impotent in your debate tactics and probably have been kicked off of every discussion board that's moderated for your parasitic irrelevance.

Dumbass back atcha.

 

[jomar]

Watch out for the Ice, Bro.

 

[xssve]

Power corrupts PennLady, it about privilege, and these kids can get away with damn near anything 'cuase daddy will buy them out of it - don't you read the news? Mostly it's just drugging and drinking, date rape, stuff like that, though occasionally they beat random people down with baseball bats for no apparent reason. Like Lovecraft said, some of them are just trying to get through college, but every frat has these guys, and others, if they aren't like that to begin with, end up like that.

In this case, they're taking "ordinary" kids, however you want to define that, and indoctrinating them into a culture of misogyny - clearly, one of them at least thought this was a crock of shit. I kinda wonder how many calls he'll be getting four years from now, and from what firms.

Meritocracy, as if. Without his connections, Bush would be sweeping floors and cleaning out toilets - I think everybody, deep down, knows that.

 

[Guest]

*deleted*

 

[PennLady]

Power corrupts PennLady, it about privilege, and these kids can get away with damn near anything 'cuase daddy will buy them out of it - don't you read the news? Mostly it's just drugging and drinking, date rape, stuff like that, though occasionally they beat random people down with baseball bats for no apparent reason. Like Lovecraft said, some of them are just trying to get through college, but every frat has these guys, and others, if they aren't like that to begin with, end up like that.

In this case, they're taking "ordinary" kids, however you want to define that, and indoctrinating them into a culture of misogyny - clearly, one of them at least thought this was a crock of shit. I kinda wonder how many calls he'll be getting four years from now, and from what firms.

Meritocracy, as if. Without his connections, Bush would be sweeping floors and cleaning out toilets - I think everybody, deep down, knows that.

Whoa, whoa. Rant somewhere else. No doubt power corrupts, and no doubt a ton of people get into colleges of all sorts because of connections and not merit. It certainly appears that Bush 43 got in as a legacy more than anything. However, it doesn't mean that everyone in a frat, or at an Ivy League college, is a menace to society.

It's also just stupid to say that "everyone" who was in a frat (or any other group) will end up "like that." It's stupid because it's not true.

Look, I wasn't in a sorority and my connection with a frat was that I had a tutor who was a brother in one in college. The "Greek life" did not appeal to me in the least. I'm not trying to defense these guys. I'm just saying that to demand you not be judged b/c of people who may look like you or share some other connection, then turn around and do it, is hypocritical. And sometimes these privileged snots will be accused of things they did not do and they will in fact be innocent.

 

[Guest]

*deleted*

 

[xssve]

It's also just stupid to say that "everyone" who was in a frat (or any other group) will end up "like that." It's stupid because it's not true.

Which is exactly why I didn't say that.

Look, I wasn't in a sorority and my connection with a frat was that I had a tutor who was a brother in one in college. The "Greek life" did not appeal to me in the least. I'm not trying to defense these guys. I'm just saying that to demand you not be judged b/c of people who may look like you or share some other connection, then turn around and do it, is hypocritical. And sometimes these privileged snots will be accused of things they did not do and they will in fact be innocent.

And that happens, and people believe it, because they have a reputation for it - how did they get a reputation for it?

All leading to, what should they do about that - any ideas?

Every guy who was in a fraternity and has spent their live trying to make the world a better place is feeling like shit tonight, trying to explain it to their wives and kids.

NPR did a short piece on the history of Fraternities - these guys would have been kicked out, instead, they're running it, where were all the "good guys"?

Something is funky in Denmark, admit it.

 

[sr71plt]

Whoa, whoa. Rant somewhere else.

The point is that xssve can't rant anywhere else. If he could, he'd pick a more relevant place to do so.

 

[xssve]

It's my fucking thread, I'll rant all I want, I'm letting you whine, and drivel, and rationalize aren't I?