Heart Problems 3500 Years Old!

[3113]

Now people, don't take this the wrong way. Just because she had this disease doesn't mean that smoking and chowing down on cheeseburgers aren't to blame--or that they won't make things worse if they're not to blame. All it means is that such heart problems can't be blamed only and entirely on modern things like smoking and cheeseburgers. Which I think a lot of us already knew (damn genetics!). But this certainly helps confirm it (then again, there were certain weeds to smoke back then, and plenty of lard to eat.....hmmm...).

An ancient Egyptian princess who died almost 3,500 years ago has become the earliest documented case of heart disease. And chances are good that cheeseburgers and junk food weren't to blame.

Princess Ahmose Meryet Amon, the daughter of a Pharaoh, likely never had any of the bad habits that plague so many modern-day women like a sedentary lifestyle, smoking, and a fondness for late-afternoon snacking. And yet by the time of her death in her early 40s, she had blockages in five major arteries, including those that supply blood to the brain and heart. Cardiologists have conducted CT scans on the princess's mummified remains and found that she had developed a textbook case of coronary atherosclerosis -- the buildup of plaque in the heart's arteries.

Left untreated -- and hers almost certainly was -- the condition can lead to a heart attack or stroke. In fact, the princess's heart disease was so advanced that if she were living today, she would likely have needed a heart bypass, say the researchers. The findings are surprising, given that many assume heart disease to be a modern scourge. But it's clear that the disease existed thousands of years ago as well.

Full story here.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And people were lucky to live past 35 back then and they were the ones doing the work. The royalty lived a life of luxury...they didn't move finger for themselves let alone exercise.

 

[Handley_Page]

Oh but they did exercise.
Horse-riding, Archery and other (often military) pursuits were followed quite avidly.
But I wonder which Pharaoh was Daddy ?

 

[voluptuary_manque]

People confuse the life expectancy at birth with the actual life span of those who lived past childhood. There is a large statistical difference. If you lose half of all children before the age of five and most of the rest live to seventy, the average life expectancy is thirty-five but the other half lives to a ripe old age. Watch out for them statistics, eh?

 

[stephen55]

From what I've read, the Egyptian Royalty were a rather inbred lot. Brothers marrying sisters, mothers marrying sons and the Pharaoh boinking whoever happened to be walking by.

A variety of autosomal recessive traits would have come about, with the child needing to inherit the defective gene from both parents to be affected.

One of them is cystathionine beta synthase deficiency, otherwise known as homocystinuria. One of the results is extensive vascular atheroma formation in early life as well as intra-vascular thrombosis.

Other effects are a tall, thin, Marfanoid body habitus, seizures, and a variety of other ills including glaucoma and subluxation or full dislocation of the lens in the eyes.

Homocystinuria and a variety of other inherited disorders likely played a part in the ill health and early death of many an Egyptian Royal.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

From what I've read, the Egyptian Royalty were a rather inbred lot. Brothers marrying sisters, mothers marrying sons and the Pharaoh boinking whoever happened to be walking by.

A variety of autosomal recessive traits would have come about, with the child needing to inherit the defective gene from both parents to be affected.

One of them is cystathionine beta synthase deficiency, otherwise known as homocystinuria. One of the results is extensive vascular atheroma formation in early life as well as intra-vascular thrombosis.

Other effects are a tall, thin, Marfanoid body habitus, seizures, and a variety of other ills including glaucoma and subluxation or full dislocation of the lens in the eyes.

Homocystinuria and a variety of other inherited disorders likely played a part in the ill health and early death of many an Egyptian Royal.

Sisters marrying brothers, Stephen. Inheritance was primogenitural, but property and titles were owned by men. If the first-born were female, the family's wealth and status would be lost to her husband's family upon her marriage. In that case, she was obliged to marry her younger brother to keep the family's inheritance. Mating between any other sibling combinations was considered improper.
As a note, a similar practice continues today in the Near East, where a first-born girl may be married to her father's brother's son (patrilateral parallel cousin) in order to keep the wealth in the patrilineage.

 

[3113]

Sisters marrying brothers, Stephen. Inheritance was primogenitural, but property and titles were owned by men. If the first-born were female, the family's wealth and status would be lost to her husband's family upon her marriage. In that case, she was obliged to marry her younger brother to keep the family's inheritance. Mating between any other sibling combinations was considered improper.

Would this fly in the incest category? I don't read that category, but it seems to me that an Egyptian themed brother/sister incest story would come across as ho-hum and not a bit alluring to the incest folk because it's not forbidden and everyone knows that's what they did.

Much more fun if it's taboo.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Would this fly in the incest category? I don't read that category, but it seems to me that an Egyptian themed brother/sister incest story would come across as ho-hum and not a bit alluring to the incest folk because it's not forbidden and everyone knows that's what they did.

Much more fun if it's taboo.

Right. And while incest is sex with a close relative, societies count relatives differently. In the Trobriand Islands, for example, a "father" is not related to his children; he is the husband of their mother. If a man were to have sex with his wife's daughter, it wouldn't be considered incest. But it would still be frowned on, in this case as greedy, since he'd be taking two women from the same matrilineage.

 

[trysail]

People confuse the life expectancy at birth with the actual life span of those who lived past childhood. There is a large statistical difference. If you lose half of all children before the age of five and most of the rest live to seventy, the average life expectancy is thirty-five but the other half lives to a ripe old age. Watch out for them statistics, eh?

Hooray for VM!!!


The misuse, misunderstanding, misinterpretation and intentional misrepresentation of statistics is one of the banes of my existence.


As we both know, it's easily possible to drown in a lake that has an average depth of five inches ( and we haven't even mentioned the mode or median ).

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Hooray for VM!!!



As we both know, it's easily possible to drown in a lake that has an average depth of five inches ( and we haven't even mentioned the mode or median ).

The misuse, misunderstanding, misinterpretation and intentional misrepresentation of statistics is one of the banes of my existence.

Stats are useless (well, not quite; they can be used to imply 'things) unless the include a measure of dispersion along with the central tendency. And even then, the truth might be hidden if the data is bi (or even poly) modal.
If all you have is an average, a mode, or a median, you have insufficient information to describe the sample or the population.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

When presented with statistical data I really prefer to see the entire graph. It keeps the presenter on his/her toes.

 

[stephen55]

King Tut Mysteries Solved: Was Disabled, Malarial, and Inbred

In the new study, the mummies of King Tut and ten other royals that researchers have long suspected were his close relatives were examined. Of these ten, the identities of only three had been known for certain.

Using DNA samples taken from the mummies' bones, the scientists were able to create a five-generation family tree for the boy pharaoh.

The team looked for shared genetic sequences in the Y chromosome—a bundle of DNA passed only from father to son—to identify King Tut's male ancestors. The researchers then determined parentage for the mummies by looking for signs that a mummy's genes are a blend of a specific couple's DNA.

In this way, the team was able to determine that a mummy known until now as KV55 is the "heretic king" Akhenaten—and that he was King Tut's father. Akhenaten was best known for abolishing ancient Egypt's pantheon in favor of worshipping only one god.

(Pictures: "Who Was King Tut's Father?" [2007].)

Furthermore, the mummy known as KV35 was King Tut's grandfather, the pharaoh Amenhotep III, whose reign was marked by unprecedented prosperity.

Preliminary DNA evidence also indicates that two stillborn fetuses entombed with King Tut when he died were daughters whom he likely fathered with his chief queen Ankhensenamun, whose mummy may also have finally been identified. (See "King Tut Tomb Fetuses May Reveal Pharaoh's Mother.")

Also, a mummy previously known as the Elder Lady is Queen Tiye, King Tut's grandmother and wife of Amenhotep III.

King Tut's mother is a mummy researchers had been calling the Younger Lady.

While the body of King Tut's mother has finally been revealed, her identity remains a mystery. DNA studies show that she was the daughter of Amenhotep III and Tiye and thus was the full sister of her husband, Akhenaten.

Some Egyptologists have speculated that King Tut's mother was Akhenaten's chief wife, Queen Nefertiti—made famous by an iconic bust (Nefertiti-bust picture). But the new findings seem to challenge this idea, because historical records do not indicate that Nefertiti and Akhenaten were related.

(See "Nefertiti's Real, Wrinkled Face Found in Famous Bust?")

Instead, the sister with whom Akenhaten fathered King Tut may have been a minor wife or concubine, which would not have been unusual, said Willeke Wendrich, a UCLA Egyptologist who was not involved in the study.

"Egyptian pharaohs had multiple wives, and often multiple sons who would potentially compete for the throne after the death of their father," Wendrich said.

Inbreeding would also not have been considered unusual among Egyptian royalty of the time.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100216-king-tut-malaria-bones-inbred-tutankhamun/

So let's see..

King Tut's grandfather was Pharaoh Amenhotep III.
King Tut's father was the Heretic Pharaoh, Akhenaten.
King Tut's mother was the the daughter of Amenhotep III and Tiye and thus was the full sister of her husband, Akhenaten.

So Tut"s mother and father were full brother and sister.

Tut's chief wife, Ankhesenamun, daughter of Nefertiti and Akhenaten, was either a half sister or a full sister to Tut.

No wonder his two daughters were stillborn.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

And Ramses II had ninety-nine sons (the number of daughters is less certain) and he sure didn't do that with only one sister/wife!

 

[trysail]

The misuse, misunderstanding, misinterpretation and intentional misrepresentation of statistics is one of the banes of my existence.

Stats are useless (well, not quite; they can be used to imply 'things) unless the include a measure of dispersion along with the central tendency. And even then, the truth might be hidden if the data is bi (or even poly) modal.
If all you have is an average, a mode, or a median, you have insufficient information to describe the sample or the population.

Mein Gott!

The next thing you know, somebody on Lit will launch into a lecture on appropriate statistical methods for non-Gaussian distributions, semi-variance, σ and Χ².

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Mein Gott!

The next thing you know, somebody on Lit will launch into a lecture on appropriate statistical methods for non-Gaussian distributions, semi-variance, σ and Χ².

Das ist richtig, mein Herr.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

King Tut Mysteries Solved: Was Disabled, Malarial, and Inbred

In the new study, the mummies of King Tut and ten other royals that researchers have long suspected were his close relatives were examined. Of these ten, the identities of only three had been known for certain.

Using DNA samples taken from the mummies' bones, the scientists were able to create a five-generation family tree for the boy pharaoh.

The team looked for shared genetic sequences in the Y chromosome—a bundle of DNA passed only from father to son—to identify King Tut's male ancestors. The researchers then determined parentage for the mummies by looking for signs that a mummy's genes are a blend of a specific couple's DNA.

In this way, the team was able to determine that a mummy known until now as KV55 is the "heretic king" Akhenaten—and that he was King Tut's father. Akhenaten was best known for abolishing ancient Egypt's pantheon in favor of worshipping only one god.

(Pictures: "Who Was King Tut's Father?" [2007].)

Furthermore, the mummy known as KV35 was King Tut's grandfather, the pharaoh Amenhotep III, whose reign was marked by unprecedented prosperity.

Preliminary DNA evidence also indicates that two stillborn fetuses entombed with King Tut when he died were daughters whom he likely fathered with his chief queen Ankhensenamun, whose mummy may also have finally been identified. (See "King Tut Tomb Fetuses May Reveal Pharaoh's Mother.")

Also, a mummy previously known as the Elder Lady is Queen Tiye, King Tut's grandmother and wife of Amenhotep III.

King Tut's mother is a mummy researchers had been calling the Younger Lady.

While the body of King Tut's mother has finally been revealed, her identity remains a mystery. DNA studies show that she was the daughter of Amenhotep III and Tiye and thus was the full sister of her husband, Akhenaten.

Some Egyptologists have speculated that King Tut's mother was Akhenaten's chief wife, Queen Nefertiti—made famous by an iconic bust (Nefertiti-bust picture). But the new findings seem to challenge this idea, because historical records do not indicate that Nefertiti and Akhenaten were related.

(See "Nefertiti's Real, Wrinkled Face Found in Famous Bust?")

Instead, the sister with whom Akenhaten fathered King Tut may have been a minor wife or concubine, which would not have been unusual, said Willeke Wendrich, a UCLA Egyptologist who was not involved in the study.

"Egyptian pharaohs had multiple wives, and often multiple sons who would potentially compete for the throne after the death of their father," Wendrich said.

Inbreeding would also not have been considered unusual among Egyptian royalty of the time.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100216-king-tut-malaria-bones-inbred-tutankhamun/

So let's see..

King Tut's grandfather was Pharaoh Amenhotep III.
King Tut's father was the Heretic Pharaoh, Akhenaten.
King Tut's mother was the the daughter of Amenhotep III and Tiye and thus was the full sister of her husband, Akhenaten.

So Tut"s mother and father were full brother and sister.

Tut's chief wife, Ankhesenamun, daughter of Nefertiti and Akhenaten, was either a half sister or a full sister to Tut.

No wonder his two daughters were stillborn.

Not really, Stephen, though it ispartof it. Inbreeding will increase homozygosity, and with it allow for deleterious recessives to have more significant effects, butthe same would hold for traits we consider valuable. It is the basis of artificial selection and European Monarchy.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Uh, given the history of Europe, how about 'the basis of artificial selection versus European monarchy'?

 

[R. Richard]

Now people, don't take this the wrong way. Just because she had this disease doesn't mean that smoking and chowing down on cheeseburgers aren't to blame--or that they won't make things worse if they're not to blame. All it means is that such heart problems can't be blamed only and entirely on modern things like smoking and cheeseburgers. Which I think a lot of us already knew (damn genetics!). But this certainly helps confirm it (then again, there were certain weeds to smoke back then, and plenty of lard to eat.....hmmm...).

I Can Has Cheezburger?

 

[stephen55]

Not really, Stephen, though it ispartof it. Inbreeding will increase homozygosity, and with it allow for deleterious recessives to have more significant effects, butthe same would hold for traits we consider valuable. It is the basis of artificial selection and European Monarchy.

Regarding the revelation that King Tut's mother and father were brother and sister, Pusch said, "Inbreeding is not an advantage for biological or genetic fitness. Normally the health and immune system are reduced and malformations increase," he said.


Inbreeding is always deleterious. Artificial selection (breeding a faster thoroughbred) is done by selecting desirable traits and breeding for those traits. It doesn't usually involve inbreeding. When it does, breeders generally weaken a breed. (British bulldogs with a face so short they have trouble breathing.)

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Regarding the revelation that King Tut's mother and father were brother and sister, Pusch said, "Inbreeding is not an advantage for biological or genetic fitness. Normally the health and immune system are reduced and malformations increase," he said.


Inbreeding is always deleterious. Artificial selection (breeding a faster thoroughbred) is done by selecting desirable traits and breeding for those traits. It doesn't usually involve inbreeding. When it does, breeders generally weaken a breed. (British bulldogs with a face so short they have trouble breathing.)

Never said it was good, Stephen; just that it is used for increasing traits some people consider good. Biological fitness and adaptibility reside in heterozygosity; homozygosity is never useful in the long run.

A note on dog faces, though, Stephen. They aren't short. Selective breeding cannot modify the ratio of mandibular length to cranial length, but it can be used to modify the breadth. Short-faced dogs are really just wide-headed. The problem arises in the soft tissue. It grows to the length that would match the width, and you end up with wrinkled snouts (how cute! [sic]) and over-sized tongues (how deadly! ).

 

[3113]

It is the basis of artificial selection and European Monarchy.

Can you all say hemophilia? I knew you could!

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Can you all say hemophilia? I knew you could!

and porphyria (the Hanoverians - "the Madness of King George))...and did you know the Hapsburgs had "tails?" (Their coccyxes protruded externally - the jaw wasn't the only characteristic brought out by inbreeding).

 

[R. Richard]

Not really, Stephen, though it ispartof it. Inbreeding will increase homozygosity, and with it allow for deleterious recessives to have more significant effects, butthe same would hold for traits we consider valuable. It is the basis of artificial selection and European Monarchy.

The pre-European polynesians knew well the bad effects of inbreeding. Since they were often few people isolated on widely separated islands, they adopted sexual customs designed to allow a maximum mixing of available genes, to prevent inbreeding.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

The pre-European polynesians knew well the bad effects of inbreeding. Since they were often few people isolated on widely separated islands, they adopted sexual customs designed to allow a maximum mixing of available genes, to prevent inbreeding.

Many small communities have adopted marriage and mating rules that minimize the effects. Cross-cousin marriage is one of the most common, and can be fairly effective. Brother-Sister mating will bring you up to 95% homozygosity in 5 generations. First Cousin mating will have the same effect in 10 generations. But second cousin pairing will plateau at around 40% after 15 generations, and stay there. Small communities still suffer from a dgree of homozygosity, but usually not enough to threaten their survival as populations.

 

[R. Richard]

Many small communities have adopted marriage and mating rules that minimize the effects. Cross-cousin marriage is one of the most common, and can be fairly effective. Brother-Sister mating will bring you up to 95% homozygosity in 5 generations. First Cousin mating will have the same effect in 10 generations. But second cousin pairing will plateau at around 40% after 15 generations, and stay there. Small communities still suffer from a dgree of homozygosity, but usually not enough to threaten their survival as populations.

It has been stated that small, isolated populations often practiced 'sacred prostitution.' A girl, of a certain age, had to present herself at the temple/church and fuck a man for pay. The price was supposedly set high enough that only a rich merchant or military officer could afford the tariff. The object wasn't sex, but the capture of 'good genes.' (The rich or noble had, by definition, good genes.) The supposed practice was necessary to insure a good supply of new genes to the gene pool. (There is some argument as to the actual existence of the practice.)

However, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrine_prostitute