I Dont Get It.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Why is it that popular writers get worse with time?

I cant name one writer who improved as time passes. All of them crank-out 2-6 books that are commercial winners, then spend the next 30 years cobbling crap.

 

[TxRad]

It is said that everyone has at least one good story to tell. So and author with 2-6 winners is far ahead of the curve. Most burn themselves out by staying in the same theme/category throughout their career. Or they rehash the same story over and over again.

 

[SyncereLeeYours]

i agree.

 

[masterdrakin]

Not entirely tru one of my favorite writers has written 12 novels and 1 novella and has one coming out later this year and a contract that guarantees 4 more in 3-4 years and I love his work never fails to capture you with his story line and characters that just after learning about them you feel you have known them forever. His name is Terry Goodkind author of The Sword Of Truth. And The Law Of Nines. All great books and can't wait for more.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It is said that everyone has at least one good story to tell. So and author with 2-6 winners is far ahead of the curve. Most burn themselves out by staying in the same theme/category throughout their career. Or they rehash the same story over and over again.

Yes!, but for many the mechanics of their prose deteriorates like the mental faculties of a geezer with alzheimers. I get the rut part, I get the burn-out part, what I dont get is the lousy craftsmanship.

 

[masterdrakin]

Yes!, but for many the mechanics of their prose deteriorates like the mental faculties of a geezer with alzheimers. I get the rut part, I get the burn-out part, what I dont get is the lousy craftsmanship.

There are few that excel at writing that don't rut or show burn out little yet deal shitty craftsmanship I know the author I mentioned works hard to make sure he gives his best work each time.

 

[lovecraft68]

Complacency perhaps. Maybe ego their first books sellling so well they assume people will read any drivel coming out of their heads. Also in the case of some of the biggest authors like King I think it gets to where even the editors and publishers will take anything they put out.

Name recognition alone would turn anything KIng has into millions of sales. The millions who buy it can say it sucks but as for the publishers concerned the ybought it so what?

I think this happened with Anne Rice. Although I was never a fan the majority raved over her fist three vampire works but by the end of mayfair witches a lot of people were siding with me. She then got a point where every book was a stand alone based on another vampire just cashing in.

As for King I have not read anything he has done in a long time. After Pet Sematary he went down hill with "Insomnia" being the cure for that disease. Desperation and the Regulators would have never been picked up if it weren't KIng. Awhile back I tried to see if he bounced and picked up Black House that he wrote with Peter Straub.

You could tell by the style part one was his. I put the book down when after 50 pages he was still describing the town.

Now I think I just talked myself into my point. I think the editors and others around them are afraid to tell them that something sucks. Just like no one around him wanted to tell Michael Jackson he was a sick individual who needed help.

 

[masterdrakin]

Complacency perhaps. Maybe ego their first books sellling so well they assume people will read any drivel coming out of their heads. Also in the case of some of the biggest authors like King I think it gets to where even the editors and publishers will take anything they put out.

Name recognition alone would turn anything KIng has into millions of sales. The millions who buy it can say it sucks but as for the publishers concerned the ybought it so what?

I think this happened with Anne Rice. Although I was never a fan the majority raved over her fist three vampire works but by the end of mayfair witches a lot of people were siding with me. She then got a point where every book was a stand alone based on another vampire just cashing in.

As for King I have not read anything he has done in a long time. After Pet Sematary he went down hill with "Insomnia" being the cure for that disease. Desperation and the Regulators would have never been picked up if it weren't KIng. Awhile back I tried to see if he bounced and picked up Black House that he wrote with Peter Straub.

You could tell by the style part one was his. I put the book down when after 50 pages he was still describing the town.

Now I think I just talked myself into my point. I think the editors and others around them are afraid to tell them that something sucks. Just like no one around him wanted to tell Michael Jackson he was a sick individual who needed help.

I would have to agree mostly king's books make better movies then something to read he's way to wordy and drawn out while exhausting details on every little thing. As for rice I was never a fan of hers just wasn't me. But there are some that excel at what they do even able to take the same characters and put them threw new trials and still put out excellent work. Luckily my favorite authors haven't gone there and don't see them ever doing so.

 

[lovecraft68]

I would have to agree mostly king's books make better movies then something to read he's way to wordy and drawn out while exhausting details on every little thing. As for rice I was never a fan of hers just wasn't me. But there are some that excel at what they do even able to take the same characters and put them threw new trials and still put out excellent work. Luckily my favorite authors haven't gone there and don't see them ever doing so.

Brian Lumley is another good example with the Necroscope books he did a five part series that was lights out and followed with an equally good trilogy. Since then he keeps pushing out more books with the same heroes and keeps brining back the Vampires in a "this really is the last vampire, I really mean it!" manner.

I wonder if they realize they are doing it and don't care or if they think if they keep pushing they will "fget it back"

That's why I like Peter Straub and Robert McCammon both take years at a time between books but neither has really turned anything out I have not liked. Sometimes it's quality over quantity.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Brian Lumley eats shit.
Stephen King wrote maybe 6 good books and shoulda been euthanized after MISERY.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

There are few that excel at writing that don't rut or show burn out little yet deal shitty craftsmanship I know the author I mentioned works hard to make sure he gives his best work each time.

I mean you dont expect a plumber to get worse and make errors newbies are famous for.

LOVEBOAT

All editors know is history. They excel at looking back, not looking forward.

 

[lovecraft68]

Brian Lumley eats shit.
Stephen King wrote maybe 6 good books and shoulda been euthanized after MISERY.

I tend to enjoy Lumley because he is heavily influenced by Lovecraft. Even a lot of his Necroscope work can be traced to The Case of Charles Dexter Ward.

I agree on King. Salem's Lot the Stand (original not the one with the 300 extra pages), Pet Sematary were some of the best books I've read. I think Dark half was good as well except for that he needs to find someone with the stones to say he's lost it. Then again like I said if he is making money they dont; care about quality.

Did you know his son is one of the hottest comic book authors out right now? He started writing under Joe Hill to see if he could do it without dad's name. He did well but I thought it was funny that once he had some success he came right out and said who he was.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LOVE HANDLES

Joe Hill eats shit. H.P.Lovecraft eats shit, too. Most of them eat shit.

Stephen King got close to sublime a few times but lost his nerve as he touched the Holy Grail and recoiled in fear.

I think Truman Capote is maybe the best horror writer ever.

 

[lovecraft68]

LOVE HANDLES

Joe Hill eats shit. H.P.Lovecraft eats shit, too. Most of them eat shit.

Stephen King got close to sublime a few times but lost his nerve as he touched the Holy Grail and recoiled in fear.

I think Truman Capote is maybe the best horror writer ever.

So the people who have voted Lovecraft the most influential horror author of all time (and if he doesn't make #1 he is consistant top three) all eat shit?

Lovecraft is a bit dated in style but name another author in the horrorr genre whose influence is so wide spread. The Cthulhu mythos is by far the biggest and best horror pantheon ever created and is continually added to and borrowed from by many authors today.

He also put he Necronimicon on the map. King has done nothing but rehash old concepts Vampires, werewolves, serial killers pycho path's schizo's rabid dogs he even lowered himself to a zombie story. He is talented but his ideas are as original as white rice.

You can say that you are not a Lovecraft fan but to say he sucks shit in general puts you in the vast minority.

 

[oggbashan]

Part of the problem rests with the publishers.

They are unwilling to allow a successful author to deviate from what has proved a success before. Experimentation can be financial suicide.

The most obvious historic example is Somerset Maugham. His first novel was a great hit and a financial gold mine. His second was the novel he really wanted to write. His publishers printed large quantities for the era. It flopped and first editions are still effectively worthless, unlike true first editions of his first novel.

Og

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LOVE BOAT youre so middle class youre embarrassing. Literature isnt AMERICAN IDOL where every mouth breathing, knuckle walking, Depends sniffing dolt gets a vote.

HP Lovecraft was the Model T of horror writing.

Stephen King is the 64 Mustang of horror writing.

Truman Capote is much better, and especially how he transformed Henry James TURN OF THE SCREW into a masterpiece of horror that hints of ghostly juvenile seductions, and incest.

Robert Bloch was excellent at times.

 

[lovecraft68]

Part of the problem rests with the publishers.

They are unwilling to allow a successful author to deviate from what has proved a success before. Experimentation can be financial suicide.

The most obvious historic example is Somerset Maugham. His first novel was a great hit and a financial gold mine. His second was the novel he really wanted to write. His publishers printed large quantities for the era. It flopped and first editions are still effectively worthless, unlike true first editions of his first novel.

Og

So that is why V.C. Andrews is still getting fat off the same incestous family tree created back in Flowers in the attack.

 

[trysail]

Part of the problem rests with the publishers.

They are unwilling to allow a successful author to deviate from what has proved a success before. Experimentation can be financial suicide.

The most obvious historic example is Somerset Maugham. His first novel was a great hit and a financial gold mine. His second was the novel he really wanted to write. His publishers printed large quantities for the era. It flopped and first editions are still effectively worthless, unlike true first editions of his first novel.

Og

Og is right.


A best-seller establishes an author as a "brand." There's plenty of money to be made by exploiting that brand.


Nowadays that leads to "team writing" which we see all the time ( whether acknowledged or not). It also takes the form of hiring people to do some of the actual research spadework for biographies, history and other non-fiction. Capitalizing on the public's brand awareness for an author becomes a mini-industry unto itself ( see Tom Clancy ).


"Regression to the mean" is the eventual fate of any best-selling author. By definition, there are only going to be just-so many "Huck Finns" or George Smileys.

 

[TE999]

Robert Bloch was excellent at times.

IMO two other writers of horror and suspense that remained consistently excellent were Roald Dahl and Richard Matheson. Their stories were more creepy than horrific; two thinking persons horror writers.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

OG

I'm speaking of writers who create a few terrific books and then make every basic writing error possible. I mean, their good books prove they know how to write...and then its like they forgot how....static verbs, tons of prepositional phrases, adverbs for every verb, etc. Plus 4 syllable words when a simple word works better.

TE999

Matheson is better than the average bear.

 

[Loring2]

OG

I'm speaking of writers who create a few terrific books and then make every basic writing error possible. I mean, their good books prove they know how to write...and then its like they forgot how....static verbs, tons of prepositional phrases, adverbs for every verb, etc. Plus 4 syllable words when a simple word works better.

TE999

Matheson is better than the average bear.

I have a friend, a Brit who has turned out many fine books and the two of us were talking about what he calls "the second book syndrome", this was a number of years ago.

We pretty much decided at the time that most authors have only one story to tell and its their debut novel and also thier grande finale; they might as well go to work for the Morning Tribune if writing is what they want to do, after this.

Story tellers are a completely different species.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I have a friend, a Brit who has turned out many fine books and the two of us were talking about what he calls "the second book syndrome", this was a number of years ago.

We pretty much decided at the time that most authors have only one story to tell and its their debut novel and also thier grande finale; they might as well go to work for the Morning Tribune if writing is what they want to do, after this.

Story tellers are a completely different species.

Tis true! The writer I'm speaking of spread his one story across 4 novels, all of them entertaining and well-written, and then he spent 25 years wandering aimlessly like a geezer with alzheimers.

I recently ordered some novels by a writer named Chester Himes. He was a black ex-con who did some time in prison, then wrote a few books about his prison experiences before creating some popular detective characters who worked in the Harlem Jungle with plenty of feral creatures. But immediately after Hollywood filmed his detective tale Himes took up the crutches of a black victim, and his writing went to hell.

 

[amicus]

Robert Heinlein, Nevil Shute Norway, Wilbur Smith and, omg, Ayn Rand, refute your thesis easily James, generalizations are a bitch, now, ain't they?

chuckles...
\
and you know I am right..

der ami...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

I agree that two-headed babies exist but I do not endorse your theory that two-headed babies are the rule. Most popular writers churn out crap as time passes.

 

[Liar]

It may also be a thing with the readers. Once you've read an author once or twice, the novelty factor of their signature style of storytelling passes, and the third novel is duller than the first, because you know what to expect.