NRA and Florida gag pediatricians: no more firearm safety advice for parents

[coastal-boy]

So he also asks about the type of lawnmower, number of steps going in and out of the house. proper stair height on inside staircases, is the handrail the proper height and sturdy, gas or electric heat, is the house properly grounded in case of a lightning strike, are ground fault breakers installed in the correct locations......

these are all regulated by other gov't entities...try again

 

[cjh]

So he also asks about the type of lawnmower, number of steps going in and out of the house. proper stair height on inside staircases, is the handrail the proper height and sturdy, gas or electric heat, is the house properly grounded in case of a lightning strike, are ground fault breakers installed in the correct locations......

should we pass a law to make those inquiries illegal?

 

[koalabear]

should we pass a law to make those inquiries illegal?

The more intrusion the merrier.

 

[cjh]

The more intrusion the merrier.

maybe we need an administrative agency devoted to nothing but defining off-limit areas of inquiry for doctors. yes?

 

[koalabear]

maybe we need an administrative agency devoted to nothing but defining off-limit areas of inquiry for doctors. yes?

Run by law clerks.

 

[Peregrinator]

Well, I think Perg pretty much covered that aspect by unfavorably comparing their intelligence to that of a trained chimpanzee.

No I didn't. My post indicates that a trained chimpanzee is the bar over which I place pediatricians who have not been properly certified in gun safety by the interventionist thugs in this thread or their proxies.

Then they should educate through flyers or paying for some ads or something. When I go to my doctor, Perg, I really don't want to spend even a couple of the few minutes I get with her talking about gun safety - or seat belts. I'd rather discuss my swollen ankles and how my shoulder is doing after the surgery.

On the other hand, I see no point in passing a law saying she can't even mention it. Everybody's reasons for going to a doctor are different, and people have as many different relationships with their doctors as there are doctor/patient relationships. It's ridiculous for the government to step in, treat it all like a generic, and tell us what we can't talk about.

I agree with you all the way on this. The only time I can see a peditatrician asking a parent about guns is in some sort of initial--possibly even pre-natal--education session about "how to make your home safe for your new kid. I don't claim to be an expert in pediatrics, but if it were me, I'd just hand them a pamphlet and tell them to email the nurse with questions.

Pereg owns a gun, he was referring to himself.

I don't own a gun.

So are we still arguing it's a question of privacy? C'mon folks. If you don't want your doctor to know something, don't tell him about it, or tell him it's none of his business. That's not too hard, is it? You're making the average gun owner sound kinda stupid.

This is the most absurd part of the whole thing. We need a law so people don't have to say "I'm not going to discuss that with you?" Once you start down that slippery slope of hiding under the government's skirt, where do you end up?

So he also asks about the type of lawnmower, number of steps going in and out of the house. proper stair height on inside staircases, is the handrail the proper height and sturdy, gas or electric heat, is the house properly grounded in case of a lightning strike, are ground fault breakers installed in the correct locations......

How could I possibly know the answer to these questions? More importantly, who gives a shit? Do you think there should be a law preventing him from asking any of those things? You sure do like straw men and smoke screens, Fuzzy.

 

[koalabear]

How could I possibly know the answer to these questions? More importantly, who gives a shit? Do you think there should be a law preventing him from asking any of those things? You sure do like straw men and smoke screens, Fuzzy.

You brought up threat assessment Einstein.

 

[Peregrinator]

You brought up threat assessment Einstein.

So what?

 

[koalabear]

So what?

When?

 

[sigh]

where?

how?

why?

who?

(I think that's it...and that's the end of journalism class for today)

 

[coastal-boy]

So he also asks about the type of lawnmower, number of steps going in and out of the house. proper stair height on inside staircases, is the handrail the proper height and sturdy, gas or electric heat, is the house properly grounded in case of a lightning strike, are ground fault breakers installed in the correct locations......

these are all regulated by other gov't entities...try again

just pointing out the obvious

 

[koalabear]

just pointing out the obvious

Who regulates private housing construction?

 

[Byron In Exile]

I would assume that they are.

Seems to me you've already made the assumption they're not.

That doesn't change a physician's need to perform risk assessment, does it?

Given that that need is zero, no, it doesn't.

 

[Byron In Exile]

I don't own a gun.

^ weirdo.

 

[Ishmael]

Seems to me you've already made the assumption they're not.

Given that that need is zero, no, it doesn't.

Outside the boundaries of medicine they have no business opining on any sort of risk assessment, another area for which they are unqualified. If they feel that that is their calling in life, go to school and become an actuary. (Higher pay with 1/10th the hassle anyway.)

Ishmael

 

[Peregrinator]

Seems to me you've already made the assumption they're not.

Given that that need is zero, no, it doesn't.

You're mistaken. I have not made any such assumption.

There's no need for a doctor to perform preventative advising to parents of young children?

 

[Peregrinator]

Outside the boundaries of medicine they have no business opining on any sort of risk assessment, another area for which they are unqualified. If they feel that that is their calling in life, go to school and become an actuary. (Higher pay with 1/10th the hassle anyway.)

Ishmael

Interesting that you think the state legislature and the NRA are qualified to dictate what doctors should and shouldn't say to their patient's legal guardians.

How's that interventionism working out for you, Ish? Government got enough fingers in private businesses yet for you?

 

[Peregrinator]

^ weirdo.

I'm thiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close, though...

 

[sigh]

Who regulates private housing construction?

Around here we have building permits to buy, codes to follow, and inspectors to please.

I live in town, though. Even if you're off in the woods on your own property I suspect there are still some basic codes about sewage and such to satisfy.

 

[sigh]

I'm thiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close, though...

I told you I can't sell you the 12 gauge.

 

[Morcheeba]

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/0...boing/iBag+(Boing+Boing)&utm_content=FaceBook

People need more super sharp knives in their lives.

 

[Peregrinator]

Below is a synopsis of the text of the bill in question;

"Privacy of Firearm Owners: 1)Provides that licensed practitioner or facility may not record firearm ownership information in patient's medical record; 2)provides exception; 3)provides that unless information is relevant to patient's medical care or safety or safety of others, inquiries regarding firearm ownership or possession should not be made; 4)provides exception for EMTS & paramedics; 5)provides that patient may decline to provide information regarding ownership or possession of firearms; 6)clarifies that physician's authority to choose patients is not altered; 7)prohibits discrimination by licensed practitioners or facilities based solely on patient's firearm ownership or possession; 8)prohibits harassment of patient regarding firearm ownership during examination; 9)prohibits denial of insurance coverage, increased premiums, or other discrimination by insurance companies issuing policies on basis of insured's or applicant's ownership, possession, or storage of firearms or ammunition; 10)clarifies that insurer is not prohibited from considering value of firearms or ammunition in setting personal property premiums; 11)provides for disciplinary action."

Ishmael

I just wanted to take another look at what the law actually says.

1) That's fine; the information is irrelevant anyway, and I see this as protecting 2nd amendment rights.

2) I wish I knew what exception(s) were included.

3) Equally fine, and completely unnecessary. The patient is free not to answer, free to find another doctor. Only a true interventionist would support this.

4) Necessary, if the law has to exist at all. EMT's go into people's homes when said people are not at their best. "Scene Safety" is the mantra of all prehospital providers, and knowing whether there's a gun around is part of that.

5) Patient may already decline to provide such information. Unnecessary legislation.

6) Good. Physicians like any other service provider have the right to choose their customers subject to obvious limitations eg race, gender, etc.

7) No reason that the facilities or providers should know about gun ownership. Not a good reason, imho, to refuse care, but the law is intrusive and interventionist.

8) I would need to know how "harassment" is defined in the law. I would also think that any sort of harassment is already regulated. The patient is free to choose another doctor in any case. Or sue the harassing one.

9) This is ridiculous. I've been denied coverage because I engage in "activities in the mountains using ropes or other equipment." If any increased risk of payoff is fair game, they all should be. That's what actuarial science is all about.

10) Whatever.

11) Provides for the Florida Legislature to decide what a doctor should and shouldn't say to a patient's legal guardians at the point of that gun held by the long arm of the interventionist government. Fantastic.

 

[Peregrinator]

I told you I can't sell you the 12 gauge.

Check your closet. I stole it.

 

[neci]

I would assume that they are. That doesn't change a physician's need to perform risk assessment, does it?

i don't think i should have used the term risk assessment. when you look at the historical role of doctors, they have always been educators to the community. there is no mandatory education about basic gun safety. not in the schools. not on PBS. maybe a short lecture from someone who has owned a gun. since the beginning of time, we have not only relied on doctors and healers to help us when we are sick, but we have relied on them to pass down the knowledge of what will keep you safe. common sense mandates that if you have a weapon in you home that can kill - be it gun, knife, metal tongs, sharp scissors, broken metal chair - you keep them away from children. guns are high risk. if you get a bullet in you, your chances of blood loss are much greater than cutting off the tip of your finger with the butcher knife. every kid and every parent should know about basic gun safety. even more so if you've never owned a gun. if you go over to a friend's house, and the little boys run off with what they think is a bb gun, the risk is higher than if they decide to go cut a piece of cake. mommy was busy in the kitchen, and daddy is bringing in the deer. if you haven't taught your 7 year old about gun safety, who has? that's why doctors ask the questions. i think my doctor had a check list of possible hazards we went through. everything from lead paint to medicine storage. sometimes they even give out a little handout with home safety information.

the problem with this case is that a doctor refused to treat a patient when the parent of the patient refused to disclose the families gun ownership status. instead of addressing the patient's rights to be seen by a doctor regardless of gun ownership or the insurance companies excuse for higher premiums, they censured all doctors in the state. now it's going to take twice as much time for doctors to see patients when they have to say, "I'm not allowed by law to ask you about gun ownership, but i need to let you know that is you ever buy a gun, this is how you keep it safe from your children."

 

[Byron In Exile]

I'm thiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close, though...

You're already dangling yourself off the sides of mountains with ropes... you should just go for it and try and max out the old risk-o-meter.

Get a few guns, place them loaded with safeties off on various easy-to-reach open surfaces (coffee or end tables, kitchen counter, etc.), take up skydiving, keeping bees, and flying kites in the rain.

And if your doctor asks you if you engage in any risky activities, tell him you aren't sure because you have a memory problem. He'll do some expensive tests which your insurance will pay for, they'll come back negative, and then it'll be his fault since he couldn't determine the cause of the malady which prevents you from answering his stupid questions.