FYI Bin Laden is Dead

[PandoraGlitters]

Here for live news coverage. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42852646#42852646

 

[butters]

i am glad he's dead. i won't be joining in the understandable outburst of aggressive celebration by many americans at Lit as seen on the GB. it happened on american soil and it's not for me to say how they should or should not respond to the news of his death.

has dna confirmed it's really him? i hope so.

 

[CharleyH]

Chips? I love you, but I'm gonna disagree. I think anytime a thug like that isn't brought to justice before the whole of the world is a disservice to the concept of "innocent until proven guilty". I'd have preferred a trial rather than a murder. I'm not proud to party on anyone's grave, not even his.

PS, from what I've heard, yes, DNA is confirmed.

 

[bogusagain]

I think anytime a thug like that isn't brought to justice before the whole of the world is a disservice to the concept of "innocent until proven guilty". I'd have preferred a trial rather than a murder. I'm not proud to party on anyone's grave, not even his.

PS, from what I've heard, yes, DNA is confirmed.

Whole heartedly agree. With extra-judicial executions you're lowering yourself to standards of terrorists. It might feel satisfying to many but they are probably just feeling the same satisfaction terrorists feel when they are successful in killing someone.

Al Qaida doesn't really exist anyway, it's a western umbrella name for a myriad fundementalist groups that are unrelated and bin Laden was never its leader, he just tried to claim responsibilty for all fundementalist actions.

 

[butters]

Chips? I love you, but I'm gonna disagree. I think anytime a thug like that isn't brought to justice before the whole of the world is a disservice to the concept of "innocent until proven guilty". I'd have preferred a trial rather than a murder. I'm not proud to party on anyone's grave, not even his.

PS, from what I've heard, yes, DNA is confirmed.

charley, girl, you are as free as i to voice your opinion. who says we have to think alike? no-one i'm glad he's dead only inasmuch as it prevents some decades-long legal carnival being touted daily by the world's media, and the added heartache this would bring to survivors/families of victims.

i am glad to hear you are not a grave-partyer.

 

[bulltlr]

We lost over 3000 fellow Americans on Sept 11, 2001...Osama Bin Laden claimed that destruction and became the target of US Americans...not for revenge but for our safety or a step in that direction! Killing him didn't bring those we lost back but it reunited us as a nation.... What our President did was a promise kept...he did what Bush refused to do!!

DNA was confirmed and he was given a proper Muslim send off!

I do not dance on grave's...its bad luck!

 

[Senna Jawa]

It's a relief that this mass murderer is no more.

They have ran out of virgins down there ages ago. They provide each time just the same 72 plastic dolls of nondescript sexual orientation.

We need human resources (time, energy, ...) to provide assistance to the sick and elderly, to teach children academic topics, to gardening, to keep the city streets clean, ... There is only so much one can do. When you waste resources on garbage activities then decent people don't get medical attention and die. That mass murderer which was on a brutal dirty WAR against humane values didn't need any trial. Sending'im down the tubes, and to the ocean was adequate.

 

[Angeline]

It's a relief that this mass murderer is no more.

They have ran out of virgins down there ages ago. They provide each time just the same 72 plastic dolls of nondescript sexual orientation.

We need human resources (time, energy, ...) to provide assistance to the sick and elderly, to teach children academic topics, to gardening, to keep the city streets clean, ... There is only so much one can do. When you waste resources on garbage activities then decent people don't get medical attention and die. That mass murderer which was on a brutal dirty WAR against humane values didn't need any trial. Sending'im down the tubes, and to the ocean was adequate.

Right on, Senna. I don't delight in anyone's murder but there sometimes is justice in our chaotic universe and this is a strong example of it. As for the Americans who are celebrating bin Laden's death so openly and (apparently) gleefully, I believe it has as much to do with something happening right for America after a long season of bad news and, instead of bipartisan attempts to deal with our very real problems, a whole lot of smoke and red herrings (pardon my nutty colloquisms) about stuff that has nothing to do with real peoples' lives.

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I'm glad to see that, too. Hopefully events in North Africa and the Middle East will continue so more people have greater freedom; and this should be more important long-term.

I also am concerned about discussions concerning the possible role of torture in getting the information. Arguments that it's acceptable in such cases fly into the face of tit-for-tat consequences - my beliefs are relative to my viewpoint with no absolute right vs wrong.

Wonder if Obama will need to release pictures in the end, much like the birth certificate issue.

 

[WillowedCabin]

All in the timing:

I think it's interesting how his death came at a crucial time for the Arab world.

What he attempted to do with violence and hate, others have succeeded at with fighting for liberty and equal, civil and human rights.

It has a sort of poetic eloquence, doesn't it? Out with the old ways, in with the new ways...

I wonder what he must have thought of all those youth, minority, and mixed sex peoples starting rebellions by making facebook groups?

Good thing my generation is realizing they don't have to blow themselves up to have their voice heard in a community.

Eza alla rad, we can close the chapter on that.

Hamdella,
Willowedcabin

 

[bogusagain]

Let me be controversial. The west is not a benign civilisation, it is imperial. We only have to go back as far as 1953 to find the Brits and Americans overthrowing a democracy in Iran for access to oil. This was on top of decades of back stabbing and double dealing by the west but its pointless listing all the meddling the west has done. As westerners we tend to forget how aggressive western countries are because to their ciitizens on the inside, they appear to be benign. We really don't occupy the high ground.

 

[bronzeage]

Let me be controversial. The west is not a benign civilisation, it is imperial. We only have to go back as far as 1953 to find the Brits and Americans overthrowing a democracy in Iran for access to oil. This was on top of decades of back stabbing and double dealing by the west but its pointless listing all the meddling the west has done. As westerners we tend to forget how aggressive western countries are because to their ciitizens on the inside, they appear to be benign. We really don't occupy the high ground.

I have no argument with anything you say here.

In the past half century, the US decided the automobile and roads were the ideal transportation system. The basic idea is one car for every person, along with roads to everywhere and a parking space for every car.

This policy has shaped every facet of our life, to the point some people cannot imagine anything different. Our government has given us what we wanted, which at first was cheap energy, and later, energy at any price, just as long as the supply was plentiful. If we had pursued a different course 50 years ago, this might not be our priority today. It has entangled us in Middle Eastern politics ever since.

Past is past and reality is what it is. Any changes will be in the future.

The people who live in the moment, have to deal with the moment. Sometimes this means doing terrible things. It is part of the deal we took, when we decided concrete and cars were the way to go.

If there is anyone in the US who feels bad about the way Bin Laden was killed, I'll take them seriously when I see them sell there car and move to a place withing walking distance of their job.

 

[CharleyH]

charley, girl, you are as free as i to voice your opinion. who says we have to think alike? no-one i'm glad he's dead only inasmuch as it prevents some decades-long legal carnival being touted daily by the world's media, and the added heartache this would bring to survivors/families of victims.

I am glad to hear you are not a grave-partyer.

I'm not sure his death should be celebrated. I remember 9/11 not only because I was a media writer at the time, but I had a loved one there. I remember those days, when people in Arab countries were partying in the streets and Americans were up in arms because of it. Why some Americans feel good about partying on the grave like their enemy did is beyond comprehension to me.

Let's revisit WW2

 

[Senna Jawa]

I'm not sure his death should be celebrated. I remember 9/11 not only because I was a media writer at the time, but I had a loved one there. I remember those days, when people in Arab countries were partying in the streets and Americans were up in arms because of it. Why some Americans feel good about partying on the grave like their enemy did is beyond comprehension to me.

Oh, c'mon CharleyH, you're talking mostly about American youngsters cheering--teenagers & in their twenties. For them it's like another baseball match; on 9-11 they were barely out of their diapers.

 

[CharleyH]

We lost over 3000 fellow Americans on Sept 11, 2001...Osama Bin Laden claimed that destruction and became the target of US Americans...not for revenge but for our safety or a step in that direction! Killing him didn't bring those we lost back but it reunited us as a nation.... What our President did was a promise kept...he did what Bush refused to do!!

DNA was confirmed and he was given a proper Muslim send off!

I do not dance on grave's...its bad luck!

One man did it all. Bin Laden. You're sure about that?

 

[bronzeage]

I'm not sure his death should be celebrated. I remember 9/11 not only because I was a media writer at the time, but I had a loved one there. I remember those days, when people in Arab countries were partying in the streets and Americans were up in arms because of it. Why some Americans feel good about partying on the grave like their enemy did is beyond comprehension to me.

Let's revisit WW2

The people who are partying think they are celebrating a victory. It's a natural reaction, just like those people in Arab countries in 9-11.

It is seldom a thing like 9-11 can be attributed to a single person, but Bin Laden took full credit for it. Whether he cared about the danger in which he placed himself and all those around him, we may never know. In any case, he set things in motion and the end was inevitable. The fact he was surrounded by women and children when he died shows he either felt perfectly secure in his hiding place, or did not care how many people died with him.

 

[CharleyH]

Oh, c'mon CharleyH, you're talking mostly about American youngsters cheering--teenagers & in their twenties. For them it's like another baseball match; on 9-11 they were barely out of their diapers.

That's not what I saw on TV, Senna. It was like another baseball match, yes, but there were people of all ages cheering. It was kind of creepy, to tell the truth.

 

[bulltlr]

One man did it all. Bin Laden. You're sure about that?

What a silly question you ask..... I didn't say he Bin Laden personally flew the planes that hit the towers, pentagon nor the one that went down in Pennsylvania... I didn't say that he was the only one involved.... What I did say was that he Bin Laden claimed the destruction! You don't remember the tall, lanky fellow with the beard broadcasting that he was the mastermind behind the destruction of 9-11-01?

 

[bogusagain]

If there is anyone in the US who feels bad about the way Bin Laden was killed, I'll take them seriously when I see them sell there car and move to a place withing walking distance of their job.

I don't feel bad about Bin Laden, he got what was coming. I feel bad about the west and the delusion in which we all live in thinking that we are morally superior when our history shows we clearly aren't.

I don't own a car, I gave it away as I said in one of my poems.

 

[bogusagain]

That's not what I saw on TV, Senna. It was like another baseball match, yes, but there were people of all ages cheering. It was kind of creepy, to tell the truth.

I have to agree with you. It repelled me and left me cold in a similar way people cheering about 9/11 in the middle east repelled me. Again, it is not the actual death of Bin Laden that chilled me, he had it coming, it is what it says about us as westerners that chills me.

 

[bronzeage]

I don't feel bad about Bin Laden, he got what was coming. I feel bad about the west and the delusion in which we all live in thinking that we are morally superior when our history shows we clearly aren't.

I don't own a car, I gave it away as I said in one of my poems.

I live where I work, which cuts down driving quite a bit. If my city had a functioning mass transit system, I might be able to do without completely.

I don't have any delusions of moral superiority, but I do have a realistic view of the responsibilities of my government. There are no moral absolutes in the real world. Sometimes a bad thing must be done because it is one choice among many bad things.

It is a situation where a person must say, "The sin be on my head," and act.

The responsibility of a guardian does not come with the guarantee the protected will always understand or approve what is done on their behalf.

 

[bogusagain]

It is a situation where a person must say, "The sin be on my head," and act.

The responsibility of a guardian does not come with the guarantee the protected will always understand or approve what is done on their behalf.

I think western leaders are lost in a moral maze, they clearly have no moral compass. If the government, whether yours, mine or someone elses are supposed to be guardians, its better they don't create a conflict in the first place but these conflicts are created because a minority of people want to make money, no matter what the cost is to anyone else.

Damn, this is becoming the liviest thread on Lit!

 

[bronzeage]

I think western leaders are lost in a moral maze, they clearly have no moral compass. If the government, whether yours, mine or someone elses are supposed to be guardians, its better they don't create a conflict in the first place but these conflicts are created because a minority of people want to make money, no matter what the cost is to anyone else.

Damn, this is becoming the liviest thread on Lit!

Moral Maze is a good choice of words. My government at the present time inherited an impossible puzzle. There really are no good choices from this point forward. We are engaged in too poorly conceived wars. The people who started them thought each conflict would be a few months. I don't know why they thought this. No one else in the world saw it that way.

 

[Angeline]

I'm not sure his death should be celebrated. I remember 9/11 not only because I was a media writer at the time, but I had a loved one there. I remember those days, when people in Arab countries were partying in the streets and Americans were up in arms because of it. Why some Americans feel good about partying on the grave like their enemy did is beyond comprehension to me.

Let's revisit WW2

I don't feel good about anyone dancing on anyone's grave, and I think I have a pretty good awareness (compared to a lot of Americans) about my country's imperialist history (including recent history). It doesn't feel totally benign to everyone on the inside (in note of Bogus's comment). Otoh I was living about 60 miles from NYC on 9/11, and I knew people who died in the World Trade Towers, one was the son of a coworker--he was only 22 and it was his first real job. And my daughter, who was only eight when it happened, had nightmares for months. For a year afterward, every time a plane flew over our house, she'd hide and cry. You have to understand how deeply that event affected many children in their formative years, I think, to understand why they (especially) reacted the way they did to this news. And for the record, I can't imagine it's any different from the way young people in Iraq must feel about Americans and American soldiers, for example. It's all more nuanced than it appears on the surface.

 

[EroticOrogeny]

Moral Maze is a good choice of words. My government at the present time inherited an impossible puzzle. There really are no good choices from this point forward. We are engaged in too poorly conceived wars. The people who started them thought each conflict would be a few months. I don't know why they thought this. No one else in the world saw it that way.

But I don't think that's a particularly uncommon delusion for those who start wars. The historical record is filled with the bodies of those who were unfortunate enough to be forced into the fray.