Need Help: Submissive Not Using Safeword?

[nightschild789]

I will start out by saying that I am not a Dom by nature. In fact, I've been a submissive for the last six years and enjoy it immensely. To me, my safeword is something I call upon whenever I need it, and I was trained to use it when necessary. I met someone though, and I've been in love with him for two years. We're getting married in 2012, and I'm ecstatic.

There seems to be a problem though. About a year ago, my fiance admitted that while he did enjoy being my Dom, there were occasions when he would like to submit as well. While it's not in my nature, I agreed to explore that area with him. We set up a safeword, and everything seemed fine.

We were in the middle of a scene that involved anal play. He started getting really quiet, and when I paused to make sure he was okay, he told me he was. Because it was our first scene, I gently reminded him of his safeword. He said it was fine, so I continued. He was quiet for a few minutes, then suddenly cried out in agony (not the good kind). I stopped the scene; he was crying and shaking and panicking. After he settled down, I asked what happened. He admitted that he had needed to use his safeword but just couldn't seem to say it. (Keep in mind, he was not bound, nor was he gagged.) It really scared me. One minute I thought everything was fine, the next I'm finding out that things *were not* okay, and that even when I'd asked during the scene he didn't admit that I needed to slow down.

Two months later, we tried a different scene. He was tied up, and I was spanking him. He started getting quiet again. I asked if he needed to use his safeword. He shook his head and said, "No. I'm fine. Keep going." I started again, and he started shaking. I took matters into my own hands and stopped the scene. I'm glad I did, because later I found out that he, again, just couldn't seem to manage to say his safeword when he needed it. He said he was sorry and that he'd work on saying his safeword.

Has anyone else had this problem? He says he really wants to do another scene, but I can't be his Dominant if I can't be sure he'll tell me when I need to stop. Am I doing something wrong? I've spent so much time on the other end of the bindings that I'm wondering if I'm failing at this. I'd hate to think that he was getting hurt because of me.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I'd say no, you're not doing anything wrong.

In fact, I'm impressed at your ability to know your partner and to know when to stop, despite your inexperience as a dominant.

There's a fair few top and dominant people here, that will be able to give their perspective, in the meantime, take heart, you're not stuffing up.

 

[wicked woman]

<snip>

Has anyone else had this problem? He says he really wants to do another scene, but I can't be his Dominant if I can't be sure he'll tell me when I need to stop. Am I doing something wrong? I've spent so much time on the other end of the bindings that I'm wondering if I'm failing at this. I'd hate to think that he was getting hurt because of me.

Any advice would be appreciated.

I don't think it's that unusual, especially for a new submissive, to have difficulty using their safe word. I know I've been there. It can be for a variety of reasons...not wanting to displease the Dom, not knowing your limits and wanting to push them a bit, wanting to submit, conflict within yourself - wanting to stop, but not...just to name a few. What helped me was my Dom expressing the bold part. That he needed the feedback from me, even though like you, he was good at reading my body language.

Talk to him about it. Let him know that you won't be disappointed if he uses his safeword. That it's important to you that he does.

oh and no, it's not you.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Nobody can be his top if he won't use his safeword. Not if they care about him.

My suggestions; Try talking about your sessions as topping/bottoming rather than as dominating/submitting. This might work better for him. He won't say anything because he thinks that isn't proper "submission." Tell him that at this time, his 'Submission" isn't your goal, it's getting him used to the activities that you want to indulge in. You can't do that properly if he doesn't participate.

remind him that when he doesn't use his safeword in time, everything stops. If he lets you know to go slower, he can have more fun-- and so can you.

Maybe the "green" "yellow" "red" system would be better for you right now. Green means everything's great, yellow means go slow/not sure/there might be a problem/and red of course, means stop.

 

[DVS]

Nobody can be his top if he won't use his safeword. Not if they care about him.

Maybe the "green" "yellow" "red" system would be better for you right now. Green means everything's great, yellow means go slow/not sure/there might be a problem/and red of course, means stop.

I agree with Stella. He not only hurts himself by not saying the safe word, but he also can damage your confidence to be the Domme he desires. It sounds like it has been a good thing that you stop when you do, even without his help. He should appreciate how well you can read him.

Because he's more of a Dom (a manly sort, I assume), he may feel he's wussing out by using his safe word. He needs to know that when he's the submissive, he's not in control. It seems like he's topping from the bottom, not allowing you to be in control. He's risking his safety by doing this. If he truly wants you to Dom him, he needs to understand what his role is as submissive.

Because you are a submissive first, maybe you can explain to him how you feel when you must use your safe word. Help him understand that you don't want to use it either, but there are times when it is necessary. And when you both are learning these new roles, it's even more important for him to follow these rules, so you can know his limits. His limits as submissive are your limits as his Domme.

As Stella has suggested, in this situation, it might be a good thing for you to change from one safe word to the green, yellow, red method. Just as she has explained, it's a step process where he can have you slow down if necessary. Because he has issues with using his safe word, saying "yellow" might give you earlier warning before things get too far out of hand.

But, it is also good for you to continue watching him as you have, because that is the job of a good Dominant. Oh, and tell him to stop being a wuss and use his safe word.

 

[Stella_Omega]

He might be comparing his pain tolerances to yours. If you can take a spanking, why can't he? If you can take an ass-reaming, why can't he?

Tell him to cut that shit out right now.

If what he wants is to submit-- he can do that in pain free ways. If what he wants is strong physical sensation-- you and he can work together to find out exactly how strong those sensations optimally are. They don't necessarily have to be pain.

For instance, speaking of anal play.... http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=37433209&postcount=4

 

[wicked woman]

For instance, speaking of anal play.... http://forum.literotica.com/report.php?p=37433209

Don't think that's the link you want Stella.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Don't think that's the link you want Stella.

dammit I always do that

try this one:
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=37433209&postcount=4
there that's better...

 

[sarel101]

While I'm so expert, if I have a sub that won't use their safe words, I'm not playing.

 

[neci]

when he starts shaking, quit hurting him and finish him off. flip back subbie mode and take care of him. give him rewards for telling you how he feels. he may be fighting the loss of control to you more than the pain, as it's being inflicted. sounds kind of masochistic to me.

 

[Aurantica]

Sounds like you two have different attitudes towards safewords. I may be reading too much into this, but it seems like you are fairly comfortable using your safeword when something gets a bit too much for you, while your partner may view safewording as a sort of "chickening out". Talk about this with him. Make sure he knows you won't think less of him if he safewords.

If that doesnt work, try a safe signal instead. Have him hold a ball or something in his hand. Dropping it is the safe signal. You can use a bell too, just have him wrap his fingers around the clapper.

 

[ultramarineblue]

He might be comparing his pain tolerances to yours. If you can take a spanking, why can't he? If you can take an ass-reaming, why can't he?

Tell him to cut that shit out right now.

If what he wants is to submit-- he can do that in pain free ways. If what he wants is strong physical sensation-- you and he can work together to find out exactly how strong those sensations optimally are. They don't necessarily have to be pain.

he may be fighting the loss of control to you more than the pain, as it's being inflicted. sounds kind of masochistic to me.

I agree with both of these. If I were in this situation, I would not play again until some questions were explored on his part. One would be what did he want out of the play. Did he want the submission or the physical sensation. It's possible to be the Dom while receiving pain from the submissive. Another question would be is it a situation, like neci stated, of fighting the loss of control to the one he normally controls. Or is his difficulty stemming from comparison of physical tolerance. One other thing to consider is the ability to switch with the same partner. Some can and others cannot. Those I know that cannot play with other people after the limitations are outlined for all involved.

He really needs to examine his motives and what he wants out of the situation. Otherwise, you both could end up losing trust or getting hurt emotionally or physically.

Also, although what I'm about to say does not seem to apply to your situation, I think it is important. Safewords are important. However, I remember reading about a scene where a one time regular here was pushed past a place she would normally safeword. Doing that is very very risky because it can really hurt people involved. It was done in a very established relationship where she was not allowed a safeword with careful attention to every reaction. However, I think there are times that it may be what is needed. Again, I don't think this applies to your situation. I think it's important to remember that there are broad spectrums to the concept of safeword for anyone reading new to the concept.

 

[mitchell67]

re: abracadabra

I think this situation is yet another example as to the shortcomings of a safeword. There's nothing magical about a safeword and it ought never to be used as a shortcut for active communication. The one doing the inflicting needs to take more responsibility than merely listening for a word to know when to stop.
For the thread starter, I suggest that you need to ask for affirmation with your sub at this stage. You should not be afraid of slowing anything down when assuming the dominant role. There is no finish line afterall. You can ask him to state affirmatively what he wants you to continue doing, AND you don't need to wait until you start to worry. You can ask him at any point so it becomes a habit and not a sign that you sense you've gone too far.

I wanted to find the link of a jackass who recently topped a first time sub who got into trouble with the law after she pressed charges. His defense was that she didn't use her safeword. I hope he sits in jail for a spell and learns whether any cellmates stop whenever he says his safeword.

 

[monique_minx]

I agree with Mitchell. When I go quiet, my Dom makes sure everything is alright by making conversation and he can usually tell what's up by listening to my tone of voice.

But I also agree with the 'green, yellow, red' system because it's better than having an all stop. He might think (as I did when I first started out) that saying the safeword will ruin or end the entire scene when he simply wants a breather.

You need to have some open and honest communication beforehand though, telling you what the problem is exactly will help you come up with a solution. If he isn't going to participate in this then there is no point at attempting further scenes which will end in the same way.

Just get him talking and keep him talking. He needs to know that it's not topping from the bottom or being unmanly to be honest with you. This isn't weight lifting and male subs can get hurt by their female partners whether they know it or not. It's not about how tough you can be - I think that might be his main issue, looking like a wuss (as one of the others said before me) in front of you. Just let him know it's for fun and mutual enjoyment - keep it that way.

 

[nightschild789]

Wow! Thank you so much for all of the responses. When I posted, I didn't expect to get this much.

Admittedly, I did leave out a few details as not to be crass. Then I remembered later: this is Lit. Everyone's kinky. I actually do use the "Red, Yellow, Green" system, and it works well for me. I think I used "safeword" as a very broad definition, and I apologize. But he didn't say "Red" or "Yellow" during our play at all. So, unfortunately (as far as hoping to remedy the problem), that system doesn't work.

I did talk to him tonight. I tried to explain that using a safeword didn't mean he was disappointing me or letting anyone down. He gave me this weird look and said, "Yeah, I'm well aware of that." When I pressed why he did it, he got really defensive. Finally he said, "I just forgot to say it, okay?"

...how does someone *forget* to say their safewords/phrases? When I asked him to clarify, he said that because he's a masochist, he likes pain quite a bit. He finally admitted that he likes it so much that he'll push himself too far, and by that point, he's already past the point that he should have said "Red", much less "Yellow". I guess he gets so into it that he doesn't know how to stop himself, even if it hurts him.

I'm not quite sure what to think of this. I'm glad I talked with him, but it almost made me feel a bit hopeless about the situation. I don't know if one would consider this "topping from the bottom" (as I've never heard of it), or if this is masochism gone too far. I love him, and we're really in sync. He's the best friend I've ever had. But honest to goodness, for some reason that conversation made me want to run back to my apartment and keep my collar on for good.

Thank you again for all the responses. It was great to hear all of that input.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Just an idea but if he isn't going to use his safeword then maybe take away his right to have one.

In theory I still have a safeword, but I don't use it. My Daddy and I discussed the issue and it was decided that I would not use one unless i thought injury was going to occur. For example a few weeks ago my wrists were bound high over my head to the rafters in the basement and it got to the point where my fingers were getting numb. I told him "My fingers are getting totally numb". So he moved me elsewhere.

On the other hand during a rather sever caning I was in intense pain. The thought of screaming a safeword, or anything just to make it stop crossed my mind many times. But I knew he wasn't killing me or wasn't causing irreparable damage. So I just endured because of our no safeword discussion. This ended up being one of the most fulfilling experiences in our relationship so far.

We have been together for 6 years so he knows my body, he knows my sounds and how much I can take mentally. The lack of a safeword really frees me to get even more out of the experience. It takes away all choice. (more or less)

Just an idea.

 

[subish2009]

I'm going to riff off es's advice a little bit. It sounds like he's just getting so deep into subspace that he's not even remembering that a safeword exists. I've never had to use mine, and my husband watches me very closely because he doesn't trust me to say it either. Not because I'd WILLFULLY not say it, but because neither of us thinks I'd remember it was an option if I got to a point where I actually needed it.

I think that if you guys are going to do this, this is just one more responsibility you have to take on yourself. You're going to have to be hyper-aware of his body language, breathing, color, utterances, posture, everything, at all times. You're going to have to check in with him verbally, with eye contact, whatever you have to do to read him. And he may have to learn that one time things go a little too far because you're not a mind reader. And he's going to have to be understanding about that. If he's going to go that deep, he needs to be aware of the risks, and willing to accept them. Hopefully, you'll never make a mistake, but shit happens and there's only so much you can realistically be in control of. Don't be stupid. Control as much as you can. Maybe play up the mind fuck to avoid taking as big physical risks as you otherwise might? I don't know. I'm a sub. This isn't my bag. But I can relate.

Like es, I have a safeword, I've never used it, but just two nights ago, I did start urgently saying "I can't breathe! I can't breathe!" during some play, and he responded immediately. I didn't panic, it didn't really interrupt play, and no trust was lost, no harm came to anyone. He's going to have to learn his own limits, know what I mean?

 

[chy_girl]

I've a bit of a silly question... Can he still make words when he gets into it? Or, for that matter, is he physically and/or mentally able to answer a question with a negative?

I can't. My brain forgets how to make my mouth work and my mouth forgets how to make my tongue work, my vocabulary promptly packs up and leaves on an extended vacation... then all I can do is nod. It's literally the only answer I can give after a point. It's a very odd, slightly disturbing sensation. It's also why I carry a jingly cat bell on a rubber band in my toy bag. Jingling it is yellow, dropping it is red, and throwing it at my top is "red! Red! RED!FUCKING RED!"

It might be easier for him than making the words come out.

 

[ultramarineblue]

throwing it at my top is "red! Red! RED!FUCKING RED!"

This is why I you, chy!

 

[bhndblueyes88]

It's also why I carry a jingly cat bell on a rubber band in my toy bag. Jingling it is yellow, dropping it is red, and throwing it at my top is "red! Red! RED!FUCKING RED!"

Lol!!

 

[chy_girl]

This is why I you, chy!

..........

 

[skittybelle]

It's also why I carry a jingly cat bell on a rubber band in my toy bag. Jingling it is yellow, dropping it is red, and throwing it at my top is "red! Red! RED!FUCKING RED!"

You. Are. Fucking. Adorable.

.............................have you thrown it at him?

 

[chy_girl]

You. Are. Fucking. Adorable.

.............................have you thrown it at him?

Only once at him. A couple of times at the her though.

 

[Vixandra]

Chy raises a very good point. And it doesn't have to be a bell, it could be a set of keys, a cowbell, a tambourine, etc.

If he goes that deep and has a noise maker, I'd periodically make him use it upon my request, to remind him that it is there and it does work. If he drops it, that's the same as using it outside of a direct request- play pauses.

On a personal note- I hadn't heard of a sub or masochist that goes too deep to safeword out of something they know is bad and think may harm them. So thank you for posting this.