No rules for non human?

[lovecraft68]

I had started to post this as a reply to Darkincaid's statement about the non human/sci fi categories picking up a lot of viewers lately in my "sweep" thread then decided to just start this and see what others think.

As far as the non human category picking up a lot of votes and viewers dark is absolutely right. However,I believe it is because people who have more outre taste's shall we say are picking up on the fact that this topic seems to be able to get away with anything.

"mythical creatures" is poorly masked bestiality. Due to the subject matter there is a lot of death in that section including during sex. If I am not mistaken SRPilot once told me he wrote a vampire GM story where the guy was "fucked to death".

That is technically snuff and had it been two humans would not have even flown in non consent or the hardest core BDSM stories. That bad boy would have been flagged.


Here is the link to a story another author mentioned in the "hypothetical question thread:

http://www.literotica.com/s/evangeline?page=2

The female character is 15. 15 and engaging in sex with a "vampire". This was a contest entry so you know it was supposedly "vetted". it has 9 comments. Read them, almost everyone points out the under age sex. Even Firebrain commented on it and wondered if it would stick around.

According to the author that mentioned it, it has also been complained about officially yet still there six months later. Long story short, write about a "mythical being", and you can break every rule on the site and people who are into those particular things will begin to read whether they are into non human or not. They will read for their "fix"

Especially the under age. If there are more stories like the one above all the people who are upset they can't read underage will start flocking there in droves and the authors who want to write about it will start attempting the category.

Don't get me wrong I am not "bitching" or calling out the category, and like anything else for right now this is a handful of authors and not the majority and what they do they do. In a way I give them credit for being clever enough to have apparently circumvented the rules. Dark mentioned its rise, however and to me there you have it. The rules aren't applying over there. That and of course "Twilight" and the whole "sexy vampire" story lines in hollywood and mainstream novels are at an all time high.

Pays to not be human these days.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

I had started to post this as a reply to Darkincaid's statement about the non human/sci fi categories picking up a lot of viewers lately in my "sweep" thread then decided to just start this and see what others think.

As far as the non human category picking up a lot of votes and viewers dark is absolutely right. However,I believe it is because people who have more outre taste's shall we say are picking up on the fact that this topic seems to be able to get away with anything.

"mythical creatures" is poorly masked bestiality. Due to the subject matter there is a lot of death in that section including during sex. If I am not mistaken SRPilot once told me he wrote a vampire GM story where the guy was "fucked to death".

That is technically snuff and had it been two humans would not have even flown in non consent or the hardest core BDSM stories. That bad boy would have been flagged.


Here is the link to a story another author mentioned in the "hypothetical question thread:

http://www.literotica.com/s/evangeline?page=2

The female character is 15. 15 and engaging in sex with a "vampire". This was a contest entry so you know it was supposedly "vetted". it has 9 comments. Read them, almost everyone points out the under age sex. Even Firebrain commented on it and wondered if it would stick around.

According to the author that mentioned it, it has also been complained about officially yet still there six months later. Long story short, write about a "mythical being", and you can break every rule on the site and people who are into those particular things will begin to read whether they are into non human or not. They will read for their "fix"

Especially the under age. If there are more stories like the one above all the people who are upset they can't read underage will start flocking there in droves and the authors who want to write about it will start attempting the category.

Don't get me wrong I am not "bitching" or calling out the category, and like anything else for right now this is a handful of authors and not the majority and what they do they do. In a way I give them credit for being clever enough to have apparently circumvented the rules. Dark mentioned its rise, however and to me there you have it. The rules aren't applying over there. That and of course "Twilight" and the whole "sexy vampire" story lines in hollywood and mainstream novels are at an all time high.

Pays to not be human these days.

First of all, you can't write an entire post complaining about nonhumans and then say you aren't "bitching" or "calling out the category." You are. This is a classic, "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" post.

Moving on, the story you linked to is in the Erotic Horror category, not Nonhuman. If you want to complain about a story that includes a nonhuman and a fifteen-year-old, that's fine, but you can't link that complaint to a complaint about the nonhuman category. It just doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, you say this is a handful of authors. You point out one (maybe two, if you count sr71plt, but unless he's talking about a story posted under an alt or has since pulled, I'm guessing his is under gay male. I just checked; he doesn't have a story in nonhuman).

There are stories that slip by that include underage sex. There are stories that include nonhumans. Make a Venn diagram, and there is bound to be some overlap. That's what you are seeing, and you are drawing conclusions from it. It's utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, it seems to me that you are still annoyed that the non-erotic dream (or whatever it was) that happened between your two siblings when they were teens was rejected, while this was not. I understand why it would piss you off--really, I do--but it seems like sour grapes to add nonhuman to your list of hated categories because a story in the Erotic Horror section includes a vampire and a fifteen-year-old.

 

[Firebrain]

The nonhuman section does not break any rules (unless, of course, the stories do actually break the rules ). It just conforms to the conventions of the genre: dealing with self-esteem issues in a thinly veiled Freudian fashion.

Writing vampires and werewolves is all about finding bloodthirsty psychopaths attractive. I discussed it in my Alpha article. A woman being "brutalised" by her vampire lover is more akin to BDSM than snuff or abuse. The consent is present, for starters, as is the need to "control the beast." The psychology of lusting after a werewolf is very different to that of beastiality. There's an art to writing nonhuman stories in pinpointing this difference -- some authors don't manage it. If they're going to be anywhere, it'll be Lit

(I'm surprised that the story is still up...especially since I'm 99% sure I reported it).

 

[lovecraft68]

The nonhuman section does not break any rules (unless, of course, the stories do actually break the rules ). It just conforms to the conventions of the genre: dealing with self-esteem issues in a thinly veiled Freudian fashion.

Writing vampires and werewolves is all about finding bloodthirsty psychopaths attractive. I discussed it in my Alpha article. A woman being "brutalised" by her vampire lover is more akin to BDSM than snuff or abuse. The consent is present, for starters, as is the need to "control the beast." The psychology of lusting after a werewolf is very different to that of beastiality. There's an art to writing nonhuman stories in pinpointing this difference -- some authors don't manage it. If they're going to be anywhere, it'll be Lit

(I'm surprised that the story is still up...especially since I'm 99% sure I reported it).

If you enjoy this type of work. the overpowering vampires and the rough sex and even some rape. Check out Brian Lumley's Necroscope series if you have not already you will love it if you enjoy what you read here.

 

[lovecraft68]

First of all, you can't write an entire post complaining about nonhumans and then say you aren't "bitching" or "calling out the category." You are. This is a classic, "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" post.

Moving on, the story you linked to is in the Erotic Horror category, not Nonhuman. If you want to complain about a story that includes a nonhuman and a fifteen-year-old, that's fine, but you can't link that complaint to a complaint about the nonhuman category. It just doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, you say this is a handful of authors. You point out one (maybe two, if you count sr71plt, but unless he's talking about a story posted under an alt or has since pulled, I'm guessing his is under gay male. I just checked; he doesn't have a story in nonhuman).

There are stories that slip by that include underage sex. There are stories that include nonhumans. Make a Venn diagram, and there is bound to be some overlap. That's what you are seeing, and you are drawing conclusions from it. It's utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, it seems to me that you are still annoyed that the non-erotic dream (or whatever it was) that happened between your two siblings when they were teens was rejected, while this was not. I understand why it would piss you off--really, I do--but it seems like sour grapes to add nonhuman to your list of hated categories because a story in the Erotic Horror section includes a vampire and a fifteen-year-old.

Erotic horror and non human are kissing cousins sort of like non consent and some hardcore BDSM to me pretty damn close. Ghosts vampires whatever if it ain't human it ain't human.

As for SR it was most likely GM as that sort of trumps other categories and he seemed as if he wrote it thinking he was going to get the boot and was surprised not to. I am not insinuating he is into snuff it was just something he took a shot at.

Sour grapes? Maybe a little I don't give a rats ass in general what they will or won't allow. I do my best to follow the rules and had a brain fart with the story you mentioned. I should have assumed it wouldn't fly and for the record as salt in the wounds the wife told me it wouldn't so hence the real sour grapes; had to tell wifey she was right.

I look simply for consistancy. I am fine with "borderline" things a little word play with underage and so on and so forth but in this case it was very blatant I mean 15 is pushing the bar and Fire just confirmed complaining about it. That is my issue if Lit missed it they missed it but when members are calling it out in comments and complaining to the powers that be and it is still sitting there it gets me. You're either all in or your not.

This could be a pre rant however as on this note I submitted another attempt at a non sexual event in my characters pasts (sis 18 bro 16) so we'll see. Figure if they are hitting and missing maybe this one will miss.

 

[sr71plt]

First of all, you can't write an entire post complaining about nonhumans and then say you aren't "bitching" or "calling out the category." You are. This is a classic, "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" post.

Amen. The constant bitcher.

(And so obsessed with me that it's getting pathetic.)

 

[lovecraft68]

Amen. The constant bitcher.

(And so obsessed with me that it's getting pathetic.)

If you don't like what I say don't follow my posts or better yet put me on ignore.

Don't flatter yourself with thinking I am obsessed with you. I am not the plot bunny to your next Habu story.

"it started on a forum. There was dislike between us and yet....

 

[3113]

I give them credit for being clever enough to have apparently circumvented the rules. Dark mentioned its rise, however and to me there you have it. The rules aren't applying over there. That and of course "Twilight" and the whole "sexy vampire" story lines in hollywood and mainstream novels are at an all time high.

Pays to not be human these days.

It's always paid not to be human. Stories of sex between humans and gods (non-humans) or humans and angels, or yes, humans and vampires (Dracula) have always been hugely popular, far more popular than regular romances. As for circumventing the rules, there is no circumventing under age save by accident on the part of Literotica--meaning they missed it somehow. It's the most serious rule and if you're bitching that someone got away with that by going for non-human sex, I can pretty much guarantee you they didn't. Somehow it got by, and it won't stay up for long.

However, I do think that Literotica has non-human (and horror, and sci-fi) as a way of looking the other way on some of the other rules. Underage sex can get them in real trouble, the FBI is looking for such porn, fer christ's sake, and there are laws that can get sites taken down, can get the owners listed as sex offenders. It's just too dangerous to allow it. But there isn't that much vigilance or harshness for bestiality. So while the site doesn't allow it, they kinda do with werewolves and centaurs. Bestiality might get them into uncomfortable legal challenge--not a serious legal challenge like underage sex, so the site owners don't allow it to avoid the legal challenges, but allow it with werwolves. I think that's very smart of them.

Nonhuman, horror and sci-fi/fanatsy isn't just vampires and werewolves, however, even if those dominate; such categories also includes sex with angels, ghosts, nymphs and naiads, elves, leprechauns, and Santa Claus. Where would the fun in erotica be if these categories were not allowed?

 

[lovecraft68]

It's always paid not to be human. Stories of sex between humans and gods (non-humans) or humans and angels, or yes, humans and vampires (Dracula) have always been hugely popular, far more popular than regular romances. As for circumventing the rules, there is no circumventing under age save by accident on the part of Literotica--meaning they missed it somehow. It's the most serious rule and if you're bitching that someone got away with that by going for non-human sex, I can pretty much guarantee you they didn't. Somehow it got by, and it won't stay up for long.

However, I do think that Literotica has non-human (and horror, and sci-fi) as a way of looking the other way on some of the other rules. Underage sex can get them in real trouble, the FBI is looking for such porn, fer christ's sake, and there are laws that can get sites taken down, can get the owners listed as sex offenders. It's just too dangerous to allow it. But there isn't that much vigilance or harshness for bestiality. So while the site doesn't allow it, they kinda do with werewolves and centaurs. Bestiality might get them into uncomfortable legal challenge--not a serious legal challenge like underage sex, so the site owners don't allow it to avoid the legal challenges, but allow it with werwolves. I think that's very smart of them.

Nonhuman, horror and sci-fi/fanatsy isn't just vampires and werewolves, however, even if those dominate; such categories also includes sex with angels, ghosts, nymphs and naiads, elves, leprechauns, and Santa Claus. Where would the fun in erotica be if these categories were not allowed?

This particular "oversight" has somehow lasted six months and has been complained about. But it is what it is.

Just out of curiousity when you say the FBI looks for under age-under 18- is not the age of consent in many states now 16? Or is it a different set of rules for Erotica?

P.S. why are you putting Santa in with mythical creatures? Are you saying he is not real?

 

[PennLady]

lc, you're making a lot of generalizations about the non-human genre. I've written five nonhuman stories (I think) and not one of them involves any "snuff" factor. Like any kind of fantasy fiction, they give you different or extra mechanisms for exploring whatever themes.

Easy example -- the Star Trek episode with the black and white faces. One race is black on the left, the other on the right. A none-too-subtle look at racism, but the sf setting allowed people to think "Whoa, that's stupid." Couldn't have been done in a straight black/white way.

I'm sure there's "snuff" non human stories and if you don't like them, then do as you've suggested people do with your posts and don't read them.

But people are doing all kinds of things with nonhuman stories and they don't all involve BDSM, or non-con, or violence, or whatever. For myself, I've done stories with themes of loneliness, betrayal, fear of believing in good things, etc. In Light and the Darkness, a vampire kidnaps a witch to fulfill a debt incurred by her brother. There's sexual attraction, but anything that happens is consensual.

Perhaps nonhuman gives more room to skirt the rules, but the fault there likes more with the vetting process than with the writers, IMO. And I take issue with the implication that "mythical creatures" is just a veil for bestiality. For one thing, not all mythical creatures are animals. For another, you need to take the scenes in context. I've read some bestiality (on SOL) and let me tell you, it's nothing like the non-human stuff.

And yes, when you say you're not bitching, and then proceed to bitch -- well that's just a wee bit hypocritical.

 

[Stella_Omega]

A guy who names himself after H.P. Lovecraft should't waste his time worrying about consistancy. He should be worrying about the eldrich gods rising out of their cthonic slumber and all of that jazz...

Just saying.

 

[3113]

Just out of curiousity when you say the FBI looks for under age-under 18- is not the age of consent in many states now 16? Or is it a different set of rules for Erotica?

All the FBI has to hear is "underage" and they'll look. They may not pursue but who wants them looking? And what is Federal law about underage anyway? Because Lit is read in all fifty states. And 15 is under 16 last I looked.

P.S. why are you putting Santa in with mythical creatures? Are you saying he is not real?

I didn't put him in with mythical creatures. I put him in with nonhuman creatures, some of whom are viewed as myths, like angels. Santa, of course, is real if not human.

 

[lovecraft68]

All the FBI has to hear is "underage" and they'll look. They may not pursue but who wants them looking? And what is Federal law about underage anyway? Because Lit is read in all fifty states. And 15 is under 16 last I looked.


I didn't put him in with mythical creatures. I put him in with nonhuman creatures, some of whom are viewed as myths, like angels. Santa, of course, is real if not human.

In this particular example it is 15 which I don't believe is age of consent anywhere(could be wrong who knows in some of the southern states) I was just curious about 16 as age of consent.

16 is age of consent in RI so a 19 year old having sex with a 16 year old is no longer statuatory rape (they are however in my mind still subject to a serious beat down from the girls father) so curious where FBI would see a crime.

Granted lit is smart with 18 to just not get into debates.

Glad you cleared that up about Santa I was getting concerned.

 

[lovecraft68]

A guy who names himself after H.P. Lovecraft should't waste his time worrying about consistancy. He should be worrying about the eldrich gods rising out of their cthonic slumber and all of that jazz...

Just saying.

Only when the stars are alligned will Cthulhu rise up from R'yleh. Until then I'm stuck here with the rest of you guys and gals

 

[Stella_Omega]

Only when the stars are alligned will Cthulhu rise up from R'yleh. Until then I'm stuck here with the rest of you guys and gals

Good one!

 

[lovecraft68]

Good one!

Thank you My lady

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thank you My lady

You can call me "Dude," if you like. I am nobody's 'lady.'

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

[lovecraft68]

You can call me "Dude," if you like. I am nobody's 'lady.'

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Sorry "dude" I am old school and was raised to respect women and to refer to them as ladies. However if you prefer dude then dude it shall be.

On the otherhand dude is so very 80's how about "Bud"?

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Stories about the Undead bore me to tears. If I'm going to read non-human stories, I'm looking for tentacle sex, aliens, seductive plants, etc. From that point of view, it's one of my favorite categories to write for.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Sorry "dude" I am old school and was raised to respect women and to refer to them as ladies. However if you prefer dude then dude it shall be.

On the otherhand dude is so very 80's how about "Bud"?

Bud is the 50s! Everything old is new again, huh.

I refer to some women as "ladies" because that's the role they've chosen for themselves. Other women have other titles... Some women are not female or maybe vice versa. You can bet that someone who scribbles a moustache and beard over their phiz doesn't consider herself especially ladylike.

Stories about the Undead bore me to tears. If I'm going to read non-human stories, I'm looking for tentacle sex, aliens, seductive plants, etc. From that point of view, it's one of my favorite categories to write for.

The undead can be very lively at times...

In fact, as much as I love tentacles-- and I do-- there's very little else going on there--usually. There has to be more than that, or I get bored.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Bud is the 50s! Everything old is new again, huh.

I refer to some women as "ladies" because that's the role they've chosen for themselves. Other women have other titles... Some women are not female or maybe vice versa. You can bet that someone who scribbles a moustache and beard over their phiz doesn't consider herself especially ladylike.

The undead can be very lively at times...

In fact, as much as I love tentacles-- and I do-- there's very little else going on there--usually. There has to be more than that, or I get bored.

Ladylike, perhaps not. Adorable, oh yez! I agree about the tentacles. There needs to be a motivation and at least an attempt at a story. I'm kind of proud of "The Addict" in My Stories.

 

[MarlowBunny]

I had a habit of calling people Mr. Soandso and Ms. Soandso. I think my parents always introduced people to me that way, and I didn't know their first names. I still revert to that sometimes, but I get odd looks. Our culture has become less formal over the years, and that's not a bad thing. I have gotten in trouble with titles too. For example, I called someone Mr. when they were correctly Dr. and offended the guy. Ms. is also a social land mine sometimes.

Particularly for my subordinates, I often ask, "how would you like to be addressed?" They usually provide a first name, and then I use that. I still call one of the best engineers I have ever met, Miss Schlosser. I think she was teasing me when she first suggested that appellation, but now I tease her by continuing to use it years later after we have been work friends and are becoming family friends. She gives me the skeptical look every time.

 

[lovecraft68]

I had a habit of calling people Mr. Soandso and Ms. Soandso. I think my parents always introduced people to me that way, and I didn't know their first names. I still revert to that sometimes, but I get odd looks. Our culture has become less formal over the years, and that's not a bad thing. I have gotten in trouble with titles too. For example, I called someone Mr. when they were correctly Dr. and offended the guy. Ms. is also a social land mine sometimes.

Particularly for my subordinates, I often ask, "how would you like to be addressed?" They usually provide a first name, and then I use that. I still call one of the best engineers I have ever met, Miss Schlosser. I think she was teasing me when she first suggested that appellation, but now I tease her by continuing to use it years later after we have been work friends and are becoming family friends. She gives me the skeptical look every time.

The other day I was approaching the door to a restaurnat and a waoman was also coming from the other way. I sped up a little so that I could hold the door open for her. She looked at me and said "I don't need a man to hold a door open for me!"

I mean jeez.

 

[lovecraft68]

Bud is the 50s! Everything old is new again, huh.

I refer to some women as "ladies" because that's the role they've chosen for themselves. Other women have other titles... Some women are not female or maybe vice versa. You can bet that someone who scribbles a moustache and beard over their phiz doesn't consider herself especially ladylike.

The undead can be very lively at times...

In fact, as much as I love tentacles-- and I do-- there's very little else going on there--usually. There has to be more than that, or I get bored.

You know if he knew how big tentacle sex was these days Cthulhu would wake his ass up a hell of a lot sooner.

Oh and for the record let's just make sure that all tentacles are 18 years or older!

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

This could be a pre rant however as on this note I submitted another attempt at a non sexual event in my characters pasts (sis 18 bro 16) so we'll see.

Best of luck to you.

The story you referenced in the first post has been removed, by the way.