Socialism

[neci]

What a strange, quirky, totally meta thread this has become...

http://livingstontalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/palin-the-socialist3.jpg

i've gotten lost. i'm going to follow you.

 

[eyer]

[shrug] You made it sound in the first place as if you were talking about "true capitalist" businessmen, not "true capitalist" ideologues. There is little place for ideologues of any kind in the corporate boardrooms.



They would not be insulted, but they might insist on your using the country's official name, which was never "Communist China" or "Red China" but the "People's Republic of China." (Shut up, it's no monarchy and it's got . . . people in the government, all right?)



Debatable. The Chinese government actually proclaims a lot more Communism than it practices, nowadays . . . and it proclaims hardly any at all, any more.

I'll just account this pathetic reply to your heart just not being into it...

...thanks anyway.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Buddha and his sycophant toady, the Dalai Lama are socialists, too. Listen to these capitalism-killing words:

20 Wise Quotes From The Dalai Lama

1- Happiness is not something ready-made. It comes from your own actions.

2- If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them.

3- If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

4- My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.

5- Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.

6- The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.

7- We can live without religion and meditation, but we cannot survive without human affection.

8- We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves.

9- Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.

10- If you have fear of some pain or suffering, you should examine whether there is anything you can do about it. If you can, there is no need to worry about it; if you cannot do anything, then there is also no need to worry.

11- If you don't love yourself, you cannot love others. You will not be able to love others. If you have no compassion for yourself then you are not able of developing compassion for others.

12- Human potential is the same for all. Your feeling, "I am of no value", is wrong. Absolutely wrong. You are deceiving yourself. We all have the power of thought - so what are you lacking? If you have willpower, then you can change anything. It is usually said that you are your own master.

13- We must recognize that the suffering of one person or one nation is the suffering of humanity. That the happiness of one person or nation is the happiness of humanity.

14- Through violence, you may 'solve' one problem, but you sow the seeds for another.

15- As people alive today, we must consider future generations: a clean environment is a human right like any other. It is therefore part of our responsibility toward others to ensure that the world we pass on is as healthy, if not healthier, than we found it.

16- To conquer oneself is a greater victory than to conquer thousands in a battle.

17- There is a saying in Tibetan, "Tragedy should be utilized as a source of strength."
No matter what sort of difficulties, how painful experience is, if we lose our hope, that's our real disaster.

18- The creatures that inhabit this earth-be they human beings or animals-are here to contribute, each in its own particular way, to the beauty and prosperity of the world.

19- A spoon cannot taste of the food it carries. Likewise, a foolish man cannot understand the wise mans wisdom even if he associates with a sage.

20- In our struggle for freedom, truth is the only weapon we possess.

http://cdn.babble.com/famecrawler/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/buddha_big.jpg

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Here is what you cannot define:



What is the hard, logical, quantifiable limit of the provision of security? [1] What is the cutoff off "easy taxes?" What is a "tolerable" as opposed to intolerable administration of justice?

Who are the enemies of the state? [2] Should the state be concerned about those who would pervert science in the name of belief in a fairy tale? [3] Do internal enemies count too? [4] Was Iraq a direct threat to the security of the state? Is Brazil? How about Cuba? Israel? I'm pretty sure you and I agree that Libya was no threat. Is toxic runoff from factory farms a threat to the state? What about air pollution? Acid rain? Spent nuclear fuel rods? [5]

Fear mongering? You mean like "Obama will bankrupt the US?" [6] Like "Environmentalists want to dismantle the US economy?" That kind of fear mongering? Is "Oh! My ducats!" fear mongering somehow more honorable?

Okay. Until you find me exact, precise parameters of how little government is little enough, I'm sticking with "anarchist," because from here, you look like one. I'm kidding, but the truth is that you do believe in government intervention, in plenty of circumstances. You just have a list in your head of what's acceptable intervention and what isn't. And the criteria you supplied which I quoted above don't always apply.

Are you concerned with my liberty as well as your own? Because if so, that's very altruistic thinking. If you see it as the highest good and want me to have it, then the only applicable term is altruism.

1. The basics. Defense form foreign powers and defense from theft, any theft be it malicious, deceitful, or even completely unintended as when "big evil business" "poisons" its consumers...

2. Anyone who tried to fight or deceive it.

3. Covered in one. Plus, as an aside, the writing style guide does not call for two spaces after a period.

4. Covered in 2. Yes. Disruption of energy supplies and making war on our alliances. Libya has been kinetically engaged in a quid-pro-quo with our allies. I oppose it, but since we elected multi-cultural Socialists, we get great deference to France, who btw, held the egalitarian revolution they so love, full of "payback."

5. Covered in 1.

6. Pretty easy call based upon his book, his past associations, and his proclivities when talking "SCIENCE." When government is big enough to direct SCIENCE...

I submit that this reply indicates a tacit admission that you cannot tell me when doing good ends and that you have not thought out the logical consequences, for example, if Republicans get their hands on SCIENCE. My definition prevents them from doing stupid shit with unintended consequences. Your definition leads to Oligarchy. There are so many things wrong with your interventions, but your unshakable belief in yourself, your SCIENCE and the good works of government lends a certain nobility to your views and, of course, those of us who would challenge those views and the slow strangulation of government by illogical thinking would, of necessity be opposed to your good works, and thus rather unsavory characters, but you see, we fear for your Liberty and its future in this country as year after year of doing good leads us into a Grecian Formula as deadly as if Darius and Xerxes had actually prevailed over Greece and prevented the spread of individual Liberty and the idea of Republic.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

We need to hold the government to the thirty or so enumerated powers of Congress.

Constitution doesn't say what we can do for you...

Let the states handle it. Then we have 50 different systems to know what works not one that we're knowingly told will work, as it did during our "Summer of Recovery."

Sounds like a "Great Leap Forward."

 

[HB1965]

THINK.

Is that so hard to ask?

Ishmael

HAHAHAHA! Oh please, Ish, you don't like it when women think because that's a threat to you. Get over it. I do think and I draw conclusions that are a threat to your opinion and how you see the world. Insulting my intelligence is not going to stop that. What I suggest to you, Ish, is to think. Think about the world and maybe think that there's more to it than maybe your little narrow portion of it.

A very excellent post example re: the ignorance of true capitalism... <snip>

Eyer, when YOU understand what REAL socialism and REAL capitalism then I'll discuss it with you. You obviously don't.



OH and JEN, since you didn't bother to prove your point I'm not convinced that you aren't a mindless conservative drone.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Gas Dreams Come True

High energy costs to the Obamites are only unfortunate in terms of overcoming short-term political challenges. Otherwise, they are more or less welcome. That is not a partisan slur, but simply a summary of the 2007-8 Obama team’s view of energy prices — and the 2009-11 uninterest in exploring for new oil. True, we are, as the president says, pumping more oil than ever. But that is only because of prior leases, approved by Clinton and Bush, that have come on line, and the quite spectacular — and unexpected — oil finds in the North Dakota Bakken fields.

If one were to collate Obama’s campaign rhetoric (bad coal companies would be “bankrupt” under his envisioned cap and trade plans, energy prices would “sky-rocket”) with that of Secretary Chu’s (“somehow” American gas prices should climb to European levels; we should be worried about our abundant fossil fuel resources that can “cook” us), then the present climb to near $5 a gallon gas is what the president and his energy secretary once thought would be salutary — a sort of Europe U.S.A. After all, we Americans in our ridiculous pick-ups and SUVs (remember the president’s advice to the questioner concerned about fuel prices to trade in his gas-guzzler, or perhaps his earlier advice to inflate our tires in lieu of off-shore drilling) sort of got what we deserved.

Just consider all the positives that accrue from climbing prices: Subsidized mass transit (“high-speed rail”) — managed by government and operated by public union employees — becomes more palatable. When fewer people drive, then we are “cooling” the planet and lessening our carbon footprint. Moreover, subsidized wind and solar and “millions of green jobs” are closer to reality. The Volt, not the Yukon, is on the horizon — but, again, only at $5-6 a gallon.

In short, the only reason why Obama brags about record U.S. oil production is for purposes of reelection (otherwise, he would rather borrow to buy Brazilian off-shore finds to help our southern neighbor). We are living the Obama-Chu dream as outlined by both. Again, to quote Secretary Chu, “Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.”

I think that “somehow” has been reified.

Big Debt, Small Problem

What is so bad about this year’s $1.6 deficit, or the additional $5 trillion in debt piled up by Obama since January 2009? Without the 2010 Tea Party-inspired midterm correction, would Obama today be at all rhetorically concerned about deficits? We lament that such borrowing is unsustainable, but why do we think others would agree? Is not Greece a more equitable, a more livable place in 2011 than in 1990? Instead, look at debt through the Obama prism.

Printing and redistributing more money devalue the currency, and are already leading to increases in inflation: those without capital benefit, those with it find their stash lessened in value.

The decline of the U.S. dollar is an inevitable reflection of a new unexceptional America, one nation among many abroad, with a currency that reflects such a readjusted profile. If it were a question of balancing the budget or expanding federal employment and entitlement payouts, then obviously “people come first.” Record debt means record levels of federal employment and redistributive entitlements. We have now reached a point where half the population pays no income tax. More money was borrowed in February than in all of “Bush did it” 2007. Half the population also receives some sort of federal pay or entitlement. For a quarter of the population, federal money is about their only source of income. Some may vote on the basis of worrying over deficits; but others may vote on the basis of whether checks are cut off and reduced — or instead maintained and increased.

BUT! It's not "SOCIALISM." Just some well-intended regulations, SCIENCE, and "fairness."
__________________
Some of you see hypocrisy with Obama’s abject about-face on Guantanamo, renditions, tribunals, preventative detention, Predators, Iraq, public campaign financing, revolving door appointments, earmarks, and promises to post legislation on the internet. Others note the paradox of an anti-war Laureate invading a third Arab Muslim oil-exporting nation that posed no threat to U.S. security. Still others can’t figure out how progressives, people of the people, so easily melt into Martha’s Vineyard, Vail, or Costa del Sol. Or *how a reformer, a hope and change avatar, can preside over the tax-cheating or tax-avoidance of Timothy Geithner, Eric Holder, and Hilda Solis (and let us not forget Tom Daschle or Charles Rangel).

Easy answer: sophisticated guardians, as liberal technocrats, cannot possibly live by the myriad of complex rules and regulations that are necessary to corral a less able, wild society. They need “down” time, given their herculean labors, and surely as Ivy-League experts can be trusted without the intrusive oversight accorded to hoi polloi. In the Obama dream, Harvard- and Yale- trained lawyers, empathetic Wall Street magnates, and progressive CEOs need not be bothered with fear of hypocrisy, conflict of interest, or taxes inasmuch as they have devoted their entire lives to making sure that we, the ignorant, do not destroy our own lives. What we see as rank hypocrisy, they see as an occasional expected carelessness, or overindulgence of the guardian class who is simply exhausted....
Victor Davis Hanson

 

[IrezumiKiss]

http://www.miqel.com/images_1/random_image/r1/truth-of-freedom-liberty.gif

 

[vrosej10]

Buddha and his sycophant toady, the Dalai Lama are socialists, too. Listen to these capitalism-killing words:

20 Wise Quotes From The Dalai Lama

1- Happiness is not something ready-made. It comes from your own actions.

2- If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them.

3- If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

4- My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.

5- Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.

6- The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.

7- We can live without religion and meditation, but we cannot survive without human affection.

8- We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves.

9- Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.

10- If you have fear of some pain or suffering, you should examine whether there is anything you can do about it. If you can, there is no need to worry about it; if you cannot do anything, then there is also no need to worry.

11- If you don't love yourself, you cannot love others. You will not be able to love others. If you have no compassion for yourself then you are not able of developing compassion for others.

12- Human potential is the same for all. Your feeling, "I am of no value", is wrong. Absolutely wrong. You are deceiving yourself. We all have the power of thought - so what are you lacking? If you have willpower, then you can change anything. It is usually said that you are your own master.

13- We must recognize that the suffering of one person or one nation is the suffering of humanity. That the happiness of one person or nation is the happiness of humanity.

14- Through violence, you may 'solve' one problem, but you sow the seeds for another.

15- As people alive today, we must consider future generations: a clean environment is a human right like any other. It is therefore part of our responsibility toward others to ensure that the world we pass on is as healthy, if not healthier, than we found it.

16- To conquer oneself is a greater victory than to conquer thousands in a battle.

17- There is a saying in Tibetan, "Tragedy should be utilized as a source of strength."
No matter what sort of difficulties, how painful experience is, if we lose our hope, that's our real disaster.

18- The creatures that inhabit this earth-be they human beings or animals-are here to contribute, each in its own particular way, to the beauty and prosperity of the world.

19- A spoon cannot taste of the food it carries. Likewise, a foolish man cannot understand the wise mans wisdom even if he associates with a sage.

20- In our struggle for freedom, truth is the only weapon we possess.

http://cdn.babble.com/famecrawler/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/buddha_big.jpg

I love this Irezumi. There is a shit load of the phrase highlighted in red going on here.

 

[tactful]

Obviously, quite different than Social Studies in high school, will they start to change the cirriculum this year?

 

[JenAltArmy]

maybe this will help:

those who believe in socialism are low on the economic totem poll, or are government workers which add no value anyway to society. In farming & hunting centered economy socialism is legs, not in a modern world

Those that believe in socialism are either insane, ignorant, on drugs, have given up on life, or just to lazy.

Government is like vitamins, you need a little, have too much and government becomes toxic

i've gotten lost. i'm going to follow you.

 

[off2bed]

maybe this will help:

those who believe in socialism are low on the economic totem poll, or are government workers which add no value anyway to society.

Doesn't work. Look at Soros.

 

[JenAltArmy]

Doesn't work. Look at Soros.

that's cuz Soros has a different agenda

I love my new quote" Government is like vitamins, you need a little, have too much and government becomes toxic"

 

[richard_daily]

I'll just account this pathetic reply to your heart just not being into it...

...thanks anyway.

So should we just chalk up all your posts to your brain not being in it?

 

[JenAltArmy]

what I'm worried is that some idiots bleive that socialism is a good thing. which is a freaking insane fantasy

Then why are you so worried about it?

 

[JenAltArmy]

So should we just chalk up all your posts to your brain not being in it?

please, reboot yourself. you are not making sense

 

[richard_daily]

We need to hold the government to the thirty or so enumerated powers of Congress.

Yeah, and we need to wear powdered wigs in congress, and own slaves, and deny women the right to vote too...

Right vet?

 

[JenAltArmy]

how many years ago was Buddha, on earth?

why is it that you are unable to find anything recent? to find any good news, or how socialism can add value in a modern world?

maybe, cuz there isn't a good reason for socialism

Buddha and his sycophant toady, the Dalai Lama are socialists, too. Listen to these capitalism-killing words:

20 Wise Quotes From The Dalai Lama

1- Happiness is not something ready-made. It comes from your own actions.

2- If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them.

3- If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

4- My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.

5- Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.

6- The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.

7- We can live without religion and meditation, but we cannot survive without human affection.

8- We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves.

9- Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.

10- If you have fear of some pain or suffering, you should examine whether there is anything you can do about it. If you can, there is no need to worry about it; if you cannot do anything, then there is also no need to worry.

11- If you don't love yourself, you cannot love others. You will not be able to love others. If you have no compassion for yourself then you are not able of developing compassion for others.

12- Human potential is the same for all. Your feeling, "I am of no value", is wrong. Absolutely wrong. You are deceiving yourself. We all have the power of thought - so what are you lacking? If you have willpower, then you can change anything. It is usually said that you are your own master.

13- We must recognize that the suffering of one person or one nation is the suffering of humanity. That the happiness of one person or nation is the happiness of humanity.

14- Through violence, you may 'solve' one problem, but you sow the seeds for another.

15- As people alive today, we must consider future generations: a clean environment is a human right like any other. It is therefore part of our responsibility toward others to ensure that the world we pass on is as healthy, if not healthier, than we found it.

16- To conquer oneself is a greater victory than to conquer thousands in a battle.

17- There is a saying in Tibetan, "Tragedy should be utilized as a source of strength."
No matter what sort of difficulties, how painful experience is, if we lose our hope, that's our real disaster.

18- The creatures that inhabit this earth-be they human beings or animals-are here to contribute, each in its own particular way, to the beauty and prosperity of the world.

19- A spoon cannot taste of the food it carries. Likewise, a foolish man cannot understand the wise mans wisdom even if he associates with a sage.

20- In our struggle for freedom, truth is the only weapon we possess.

http://cdn.babble.com/famecrawler/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/buddha_big.jpg

 

[JenAltArmy]

hey, went out on our friends boat. oh that is just horriable, I know. just another reason why capitalism sucks. to work hard, and enjoy a couple fine things in life, like spending the day on the ocean.

capitalism just sucks!

HAHAHAHA! Oh please, Ish, you don't like it when women think because that's a threat to you. Get over it. I do think and I draw conclusions that are a threat to your opinion and how you see the world. Insulting my intelligence is not going to stop that. What I suggest to you, Ish, is to think. Think about the world and maybe think that there's more to it than maybe your little narrow portion of it.



Eyer, when YOU understand what REAL socialism and REAL capitalism then I'll discuss it with you. You obviously don't.



OH and JEN, since you didn't bother to prove your point I'm not convinced that you aren't a mindless conservative drone.

 

[KingOrfeo]

how many years ago was Buddha, on earth?

Same number number of years as Jesus, plus about 400.

 

[KingOrfeo]

that's cuz Soros has a different agenda

What would Soros' agenda be, and how would it differ from that of the average "socialist"?

 

[rosco rathbone]

What would Soros' agenda be, and how would it differ from that of the average "socialist"?

It sometimes occurs to me that by "socialist", the baggers really mean something akin to "corporatist". The tax burden is being shifted off wealth onto labor, to pay for an increasingly large, increasingly less responsive state in the control of faceless MNC's. They just lose me on the "it's all a conspiracy between Als Gore & Sharpton" thing.

 

[Sean Renaud]

God I'm glad there are no real socialist in America and I don't have to worry about them taking over. Cus all the "capitalists" are fucking retards and only make my case look worse.

 

[JenAltArmy]

when has a government program ever saved money?

a project been finished on time?
or on budget?

why do you accept incompliance?

guessing you were a career was a government bureaucrat

It sometimes occurs to me that by "socialist", the baggers really mean something akin to "corporatist". The tax burden is being shifted off wealth onto labor, to pay for an increasingly large, increasingly less responsive state in the control of faceless MNC's. They just lose me on the "it's all a conspiracy between Als Gore & Sharpton" thing.