What's your line in the sand?

zipman

Literotica Guru
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
38,552
New York (CNN) -- "Not intended to be a factual statement."

This was the sound of the curtain coming back on what passes for political debate too often these days.

The now-infamous statement from Sen. Jon Kyl's office was released after he said on the floor of the U.S. Senate that abortions represent "over 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood does."

It turns out that the actual number is 3%, a mere rounding error of 87%. But it was presented to the American people and enshrined in the Senate Record as a means of arguing that Planned Parenthood should be entirely defunded in the current budget.

This has nothing to do with fiscal responsibility and everything to do with the disproportionate influence of social conservative activists.

Their most compelling argument is that the American people don't support federal taxpayer money paying for abortions, which is true -- and why federal funding of abortion has been banned since 1976.

But the facts are inconvenient, and so they are ignored. Instead, talking points taken from talk radio are repeated until they take on a life of their own and eventually get the validation of a U.S. senator.

The news wasn't that Kyl made a mistake; it was his staff essentially acknowledging that in the current hyper-partisan environment, facts are a secondary concern, even on the floor of the U.S. Senate, even when they are paraded as statistics. The important thing is to scare the hell out of people so that they remember your political point and pass it on.

Like the mirror image of some hippies of old, emotional truth is more important than literal truth. It creates a political tower of Babel.

In this absurd spin cycle, there's one dependable place to look for sanity: satire. And on cue came Stephen Colbert, who took Kyl's statement as a challenge and dialed it up to 11. Using the Twitter hashtag #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement, Colbert unleashed a steady stream of Jon Kyl mistruths with the requisite denial. Among my favorites:

• Jon Kyl developed his own line of hair care products just so he could test them on bunnies.

• Jon Kyl can unhinge his jaw like a python to swallow small rodents whole.

• Every Halloween Jon Kyl dresses up as a sexy Mitch Daniels.

• Jon Kyl sponsored S.410, which would ban happiness.

• Jon Kyl let a game-winning ground ball roll through his legs in Game 6 of the '86 World Series.

• Jon Kyl once ate a badger he hit with his car.

You get the idea. But the problem is much bigger than Jon Kyl. Colbert is going to have to get a bigger hashtag. Because we're heading to a strange place where Daniel Patrick Moynihan's truism "everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts" no longer applies.

Exhibit B this week: Donald Trump's re-enflaming of the thoroughly discredited birther conspiracy theory. When he repeats this falsehood in interviews, he is too often treated as a man with an unorthodox opinion, not someone repeating a lie on national television.

As a result, more people are duped and the country more divided, not on the many rational reasons to oppose President Obama's policy agenda but on paranoid fantasies cut out of whole cloth.

Perhaps not surprisingly, a man responsible for pushing the birther myth -- and a reported recent Trump adviser -- Joe Farah of the fringe website World Net Daily freely admitted to Salon.com this week that his site publishes "some misinformation."

"Misinformation" is a fancy word for lying with an ideological agenda in mind. It has become more acceptable and more influential with the rise of partisan media. It preys on the gullible and the stupid and the ditto-head alike.

The cycle of incitement that afflicts our politics ensures that this dynamic bleeds into both sides of the aisle. For example, the liberal Campaign for America's Future recently declared that "Congressman Eric Cantor wants to eliminate Social Security," a flat-out "pants on fire" lie, as described by indispensable PolitiFact.

A little-noticed local example of this strangeness caught my eye this week, courtesy of the website ThinkProgress. It seems that Texas state Rep. Leo Berman put forward a bill to ban sharia law in the Lone Star State.

When he was asked why such a step was necessary, he cited the city of Dearborn, Michigan, six times in testimony: "It's being done in Dearborn, Michigan ... because of a large population of Middle Easterners. The judges in Dearborn are using and allowing to be used sharia law."

This would indeed be troubling (and unconstitutional) if true, but when Berman was pressed about the source of his facts, here's what he said: "I heard it on a radio station here on my way in to the Capitol one day. ... I don't know Dearborn, Michigan, but I heard it on the radio. Isn't that true?"

No, it's not, as Dearborn Mayor Jack O'Reilly has been forced to make abundantly clear, stating that "these people know nothing of Dearborn, and they just seek to provoke and enflame their base for political gain."

But the misinformation percolating around the fringes of hyper-partisan media is creeping into state capitals and the U.S. Congress. Ignorance and incitement begin to blur, compounded by the civic laziness of speakers who don't care to fact-check.

"Not intended to be a factual statement" is an instant dark classic, a triumph of cynicism, capturing the essence of Michael Kinsley's definition of a gaffe in Washington: when a politician accidentally tells the truth.

No wonder "people are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke," as Will Rogers once said and Colbert increasingly embodies. But we can't keep depending on comedians to be the voices of sanity.

And don't be fooled. There are real costs to this careless courtship of the lowest common denominator. Without fact-based debates, politics can quickly give way to paranoia and hate. Our democracy gets degraded.Americans deserve better, and we should demand better, especially from our elected representatives. Empowering ignorance for political gain is unacceptable.
 
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I'll consider giving a fuck about this when an apology is issued by the asshat democrats who wrote to clearchannel to reprimand limbaugh for impugning the integrity of *cough* of an iraq war vet who told of witnessing atrocities committed by US troops ...never mind this " phony soldier " made it all up...that didn't stop reid , durbin , et al from lambasting the talk show host LIVE on CSPAN .

limbaugh auctioned the letter for a cool 1M then matched it out of his own pocket
 
"How about just tracking down every single person who said drill baby drill and putting them all in prison. Why don’t we do that?"
Alan Grayson

“There will be more Arizona-like massacres unless the Obama-care Repeal Bill is defeated.”
Jane Harman (D) CA-36

“They [the Republicans] don’t like the truth so they summarily dismiss it. They say it’s a government takeover of healthcare. A big lie just like Goebbels. You say it enough and you repeat the lie, repeat the lie, repeat the lie until eventually people believe it. Like blood libel, that’s the same kind of thing. The Germans said enough about the Jews and people believed it, and you have the Holocaust. You tell a lie over and over again.”
Representative Steve Cohen (D) Tennessee

And I think Mike Pence said he's often – he wants to be concise, careful, and consistent. Well, that's somebody, who I will never mention again, who lived in a previous century who worked for bad people, that's what he did.
Representative Steve Cohen (D) Tennessee

“I used to think the left wing was the home of tolerance, open-mindedness, respect for all viewpoints…
But, now I’ve learned the truth the hard way.

Juan Williams
__________________
Barry Says: You have that one nailed A_J!
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/files/2011/04/obama-wide-grin80.jpg
 
I'll consider giving a fuck about this when an apology is issued by the asshat democrats who wrote to clearchannel to reprimand limbaugh for impugning the integrity of *cough* of an iraq war vet who told of witnessing atrocities committed by US troops ...never mind this " phony soldier " made it all up...that didn't stop reid , durbin , et al from lambasting the talk show host LIVE on CSPAN .

limbaugh auctioned the letter for a cool 1M then matched it out of his own pocket

Today would be the very best of days to get on the phone and blast Limbaugh. He's going to have the "Birther" Trump on. You can give him an earful of "Tabagging" jokes, then maye you can pony up some of your own money for children's cancer research, no, wait, you already did that with my tax money and the Obamacare THAT'S GOING TO PAY FOR ITSELF AND DRIVE DOWN THE COST OF HEALTH CARE...

There's a line from a sandy beach...
__________________
Obama has never been overly modest about his own powers. [during his campaign], he declared that history will mark his ascent to the presidency as the moment when “our planet began to heal” and “the rise of the oceans began to slow.”
When you anoint yourself King Canute, you mustn’t be surprised when your subjects expect you to command the tides.

Charles Krauthammer
 
Here's a line for Democrats to consider.




PAYING YOUR TAXES AND NOT CHEATING THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF THEIR PORTION OF THE REVENUE!
__________________
A_J's corollary #9, “When a Republican does it, it is a high crime and misdemeanor, when a Democrat does it, then it is, *shrug*, they ALL do it...”
 
I'll consider giving a fuck about this when an apology is issued by the asshat democrats who wrote to clearchannel to reprimand limbaugh for impugning the integrity of *cough* of an iraq war vet who told of witnessing atrocities committed by US troops ...never mind this " phony soldier " made it all up...that didn't stop reid , durbin , et al from lambasting the talk show host LIVE on CSPAN .

limbaugh auctioned the letter for a cool 1M then matched it out of his own pocket

How the fuck can you compare a bunch of whiners writing a network to what this moronic SENATOR lied about on the floor? This is stupid in the bonus round.
 
How the fuck can you compare a bunch of whiners writing a network to what this moronic SENATOR lied about on the floor? This is stupid in the bonus round.

57th State?
Speaking Austrian?
Praising a Corpse, man...?

A_J's corollary #6, “The New Age Liberal thinks, ‘When I do/say it, it is right because of my open-minded education and intelligence. When you do/say it, it serves to demonstrate how narrow-minded, poorly educated and stupid you are.’”
 
Anyone other than "the gullible and the stupid and the ditto-head alike" care to comment?
 
57th State?
Speaking Austrian?
Praising a Corpse, man...?

A_J's corollary #6, “The New Age Liberal thinks, ‘When I do/say it, it is right because of my open-minded education and intelligence. When you do/say it, it serves to demonstrate how narrow-minded, poorly educated and stupid you are.’”

Thank you A_J the Stoopid, we appreciate you completely failing to answer the question posed to semen.
 
57 states, really?



Let me spend more money than Bush and I'll hold unemployment to 8%?

You've picked a fine time to want accountability of words...

How about the strict separation of english and stupidity?

Ordinality isn't a word.
__________________
A_J's corollary #4, “When cornered by the truth, the New Age Liberal resorts to ad hominem attacks. Admitting wrong is tantamount to treason to the Consensus.”
 
so

when teh DUMZ say

they should bash REPOZ with baseball bats

then they are really meaning it?
 
57 states, really?

Let me spend more money than Bush and I'll hold unemployment to 8%?

You've picked a fine time to want accountability of words...

__________________
A_J's corollary #4, “When cornered by the truth, the New Age Liberal resorts to ad hominem attacks. Admitting wrong is tantamount to treason to the Consensus.”

Nice Ad hominem. You really are the king of them, you know. Even barry agrees.

As for the rest of this nonsense, do you really think Obama thought there were 57 states? Really? Seriously? Of course not, that would be too stupid for even you to actually believe.

And that's the point, creating false equivalencies to try and deflect from the actual argument of a Senator purposefully lying about facts, not opinions or intentions.
 
so

when teh DUMZ say

they should bash REPOZ with baseball bats

then they are really meaning it?

Now those guys [French protestors over the retirement age of 62] know how to throw down.

Riots, protests, shutting down infrastructures with strikes.

We should have taken a page out of their book during the health care reform battle...

Yes, they really MEAN it...
 
Thank you A_J the Stoopid, we appreciate you completely failing to answer the question posed to semen.

I don't think there is a right wing poster on the GB who doesn't hesitate to call someone out for a lie in a post, or whatever they think is a lie.

Hypocrisy, double standard, whatever you want to call it.

True conservatives value truth above all else. The people who pass for conservatives just want to gather as many gullible people to their side and they don't care what they have to say to do this.

There is nothing in true conservative philosophy which condones deceit.
 
Nice Ad hominem. You really are the king of them, you know. Even barry agrees.

As for the rest of this nonsense, do you really think Obama thought there were 57 states? Really? Seriously? Of course not, that would be too stupid for even you to actually believe.

And that's the point, creating false equivalencies to try and deflect from the actual argument of a Senator purposefully lying about facts, not opinions or intentions.

You will notice that the ad hominums were begun like you because you're above any criticism, so you lash out preemptively.

I'm just trying to reply in a manner befitting your new tone of civility.

He BELIEVED he would hold unemployment to 8%.

Unless he was lying. Was he lying zip?

__________________
When I was asked earlier about, uh, the issue of coal. Uhhh, y'know, under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket....
We would put a cap-and-trade system in place, eh, that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there. So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It's just that it will bankrupt them because they're gonna be charged a huge sum for all that, uh, greenhouse gas that's being emitted.

Barack Hussein Obama
Editorial board meeting, San Francisco Chronicle
January 2008

“I’m just going to be honest with you. There’s not much we can do next week or two weeks from now... If you’re complaining about the price of gas and you’re only getting 8 miles a gallon, you know [laughingly], you might want to think about a trade-in.”
Barack Hussein Obama, the Green Pres__ent (with no id, uh…)
April 2011
 
I don't think there is a right wing poster on the GB who doesn't hesitate to call someone out for a lie in a post, or whatever they think is a lie.

Hypocrisy, double standard, whatever you want to call it.

True conservatives value truth above all else. The people who pass for conservatives just want to gather as many gullible people to their side and they don't care what they have to say to do this.

There is nothing in true conservative philosophy which condones deceit.

Which right-winger here has stated that 90% of Planned Parenthood's activities are abortions?

Ad hominem by circumstance (class).
 
New York (CNN) -- "Not intended to be a factual statement."

This was the sound of the curtain coming back on what passes for political debate too often these days.

The now-infamous statement from Sen. Jon Kyl's office was released after he said on the floor of the U.S. Senate that abortions represent "over 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood does."

It turns out that the actual number is 3%, a mere rounding error of 87%. But it was presented to the American people and enshrined in the Senate Record as a means of arguing that Planned Parenthood should be entirely defunded in the current budget.

This has nothing to do with fiscal responsibility and everything to do with the disproportionate influence of social conservative activists.

Their most compelling argument is that the American people don't support federal taxpayer money paying for abortions, which is true -- and why federal funding of abortion has been banned since 1976.

But the facts are inconvenient, and so they are ignored. Instead, talking points taken from talk radio are repeated until they take on a life of their own and eventually get the validation of a U.S. senator.

The news wasn't that Kyl made a mistake; it was his staff essentially acknowledging that in the current hyper-partisan environment, facts are a secondary concern, even on the floor of the U.S. Senate, even when they are paraded as statistics. The important thing is to scare the hell out of people so that they remember your political point and pass it on.

Like the mirror image of some hippies of old, emotional truth is more important than literal truth. It creates a political tower of Babel.

In this absurd spin cycle, there's one dependable place to look for sanity: satire. And on cue came Stephen Colbert, who took Kyl's statement as a challenge and dialed it up to 11. Using the Twitter hashtag #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement, Colbert unleashed a steady stream of Jon Kyl mistruths with the requisite denial. Among my favorites:

• Jon Kyl developed his own line of hair care products just so he could test them on bunnies.

• Jon Kyl can unhinge his jaw like a python to swallow small rodents whole.

• Every Halloween Jon Kyl dresses up as a sexy Mitch Daniels.

• Jon Kyl sponsored S.410, which would ban happiness.

• Jon Kyl let a game-winning ground ball roll through his legs in Game 6 of the '86 World Series.

• Jon Kyl once ate a badger he hit with his car.

You get the idea. But the problem is much bigger than Jon Kyl. Colbert is going to have to get a bigger hashtag. Because we're heading to a strange place where Daniel Patrick Moynihan's truism "everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts" no longer applies.

Exhibit B this week: Donald Trump's re-enflaming of the thoroughly discredited birther conspiracy theory. When he repeats this falsehood in interviews, he is too often treated as a man with an unorthodox opinion, not someone repeating a lie on national television.

As a result, more people are duped and the country more divided, not on the many rational reasons to oppose President Obama's policy agenda but on paranoid fantasies cut out of whole cloth.

Perhaps not surprisingly, a man responsible for pushing the birther myth -- and a reported recent Trump adviser -- Joe Farah of the fringe website World Net Daily freely admitted to Salon.com this week that his site publishes "some misinformation."

"Misinformation" is a fancy word for lying with an ideological agenda in mind. It has become more acceptable and more influential with the rise of partisan media. It preys on the gullible and the stupid and the ditto-head alike.

The cycle of incitement that afflicts our politics ensures that this dynamic bleeds into both sides of the aisle. For example, the liberal Campaign for America's Future recently declared that "Congressman Eric Cantor wants to eliminate Social Security," a flat-out "pants on fire" lie, as described by indispensable PolitiFact.

A little-noticed local example of this strangeness caught my eye this week, courtesy of the website ThinkProgress. It seems that Texas state Rep. Leo Berman put forward a bill to ban sharia law in the Lone Star State.

When he was asked why such a step was necessary, he cited the city of Dearborn, Michigan, six times in testimony: "It's being done in Dearborn, Michigan ... because of a large population of Middle Easterners. The judges in Dearborn are using and allowing to be used sharia law."

This would indeed be troubling (and unconstitutional) if true, but when Berman was pressed about the source of his facts, here's what he said: "I heard it on a radio station here on my way in to the Capitol one day. ... I don't know Dearborn, Michigan, but I heard it on the radio. Isn't that true?"

No, it's not, as Dearborn Mayor Jack O'Reilly has been forced to make abundantly clear, stating that "these people know nothing of Dearborn, and they just seek to provoke and enflame their base for political gain."

But the misinformation percolating around the fringes of hyper-partisan media is creeping into state capitals and the U.S. Congress. Ignorance and incitement begin to blur, compounded by the civic laziness of speakers who don't care to fact-check.

"Not intended to be a factual statement" is an instant dark classic, a triumph of cynicism, capturing the essence of Michael Kinsley's definition of a gaffe in Washington: when a politician accidentally tells the truth.

No wonder "people are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke," as Will Rogers once said and Colbert increasingly embodies. But we can't keep depending on comedians to be the voices of sanity.

And don't be fooled. There are real costs to this careless courtship of the lowest common denominator. Without fact-based debates, politics can quickly give way to paranoia and hate. Our democracy gets degraded.Americans deserve better, and we should demand better, especially from our elected representatives. Empowering ignorance for political gain is unacceptable.

Gaining political points is the name of the game for politicians. You know this. It does not matter if the statements are exaggerated, false, misleading, or whatever.
 
You will notice that the ad hominums were begun like you because you're above any criticism, so you lash out preemptively.

I'm just trying to reply in a manner befitting your new tone of civility.

He BELIEVED he would hold unemployment to 8%.

Unless he was lying. Was he lying zip?

__________________
When I was asked earlier about, uh, the issue of coal. Uhhh, y'know, under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket....
We would put a cap-and-trade system in place, eh, that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there. So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It's just that it will bankrupt them because they're gonna be charged a huge sum for all that, uh, greenhouse gas that's being emitted.

Barack Hussein Obama
Editorial board meeting, San Francisco Chronicle
January 2008

“I’m just going to be honest with you. There’s not much we can do next week or two weeks from now... If you’re complaining about the price of gas and you’re only getting 8 miles a gallon, you know [laughingly], you might want to think about a trade-in.”
Barack Hussein Obama, the Green Pres__ent (with no id, uh…)
April 2011

I'm certainly not above criticism, I'm just human, like everyone else here. That's just a red-herring argument.

You are the king of ad hominem attacks, and completely hypocritical not only about your use of them but also on who you call out for using them.

You have no principles which is a sad way to live your life. Your choice, but sad nonetheless.
 
Gaining political points is the name of the game for politicians. You know this. It does not matter if the statements are exaggerated, false, misleading, or whatever.

That they do it is less of a problem than the fact that people find this somehow acceptable and even defendable.

It is up to the people to hold them to a higher a standard than this regardless of political party or affiliation.

That's the point.
 
Can you provide a link back to the original article? I'd like to see what the comments on this piece say. Thanks.
 
Which right-winger here has stated that 90% of Planned Parenthood's activities are abortions?

Ad hominem by circumstance (class).

I did not say one did such a thing. Please read carefully.

I have been called a liar more than once on the GB. The label "liar" is freely used. You are free to call the Senator whatever you feel his action deserves.

If "liar" is an adhominen attack, maybe we should hate the lie and love the liar. Especially if his lies forward our own political agenda.
 
That they do it is less of a problem than the fact that people find this somehow acceptable and even defendable.

It is up to the people to hold them to a higher a standard than this regardless of political party or affiliation.

That's the point.

you are pathetic!
 
That they do it is less of a problem than the fact that people find this somehow acceptable and even defendable.

It is up to the people to hold them to a higher a standard than this regardless of political party or affiliation.

That's the point.

Yes, they should be held to a higher standard. I do not see it happening any time soon.
 
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