bring and take

[pg240]

"He had been to the camp commissary earlier and packed some items to bring along for lunch."

Ran across this today and wondered if any of you wonder why so many people don't understand the distinction between bring and take. Or has the line blurred so much that it doesn't really matter?

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Where is my mother when you need her? This one has always been a sore spot of hers.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Where is my mother when you need her? This one has always been a sore spot of hers.

Deixis is always an issue in English, as well as other European languages. It does have to do with perspective, and thus bring or take might be equally valid in a particular construction, depending on the point of view.

For example, if the food is on its way to where he will eat it, bring makes perfectly good sense. However, if the food is being transported away from someplace, such as the store or the narrator, then take would be appropriate.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think "bring" is okay in that particular sentence, actually.

"He took food from the Camp Commissary for lunch."

 

[Boxlicker101]

"He had been to the camp commissary earlier and packed some items to bring along for lunch."

Ran across this today and wondered if any of you wonder why so many people don't understand the distinction between bring and take. Or has the line blurred so much that it doesn't really matter?

Bring might be the preferred verb in the example. If "he" was going to a potluck lunch, and stopped at the camp commissary to acquire something, "bring" is proper. If he was going hiking, and he and his companions were all expected to provide their own lunches, "take" would be preferred.

 

[sr71plt]

I'd change that to "take" in an edit--unless he held the sandwich behind him all the time he was walking so that, technically, it was following him.

 

[Handley_Page]

"He bought some items for lunch from the commissary"

Solves the dilemma, I think

 

[mynameisben]

"He had been to the camp commissary earlier and packed some items to bring along for lunch."

Step 1: Strip the sentence of all that is superfluous to the grammar question at hand. Having done so, your stripped sentence becomes:

He had packed items to [bring ? take].​

Step 2: Determine the direction of transport, AT THE TIME the transportation occurs. This further simplifies the sentence by eliminating "had." So the correct grammar boils down to deciding between bring and take for this sentence:

He packed items to [bring ? take].
​

Action starts with "He" and "items" at the same location. At no time does "He" ever "bring" items towards himself. The items are subsequently transported away from their origin, with "He" acting as the agent for transport. The correct grammar for the core sentence is:

"He packed items to take."​

He took items away. He did not bring items away. The fact that he "had" done this in the past is irrelevant.

Step 3: Apply the same grammar used in the core sentence to your original, which makes it grammatically correct as:

"He had been to the camp commissary earlier and packed some items to take along for lunch."​

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Sorry Ben, but the focus of the action is towards the place of lunch; that things are leaving the commissary isn't the important part. Both take and bring are acceptable here, but I would lean towards bring, given the direction of the action.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

I love Grammar Girl!

Grammar Girl had a podcast about this several years ago.

"Whether you use bring or take depends on your point of reference for the action. The quick and dirty tip is that you ask people to bring things to the place you are, and you take things to the place you are going."

The podcast and transcript are here. It's short and worth the read or listen.

Take is correct.

 

[mynameisben]

Sorry Ben, but the focus of the action is towards the place of lunch; that things are leaving the commissary isn't the important part. Both take and bring are acceptable here, but I would lean towards bring, given the direction of the action.

"He packed some items" is a clause, having both a subject (He) and a predicate (packed some items).

"to [bring ? take] along for lunch" is a phrase, which contains no subject, and is therefore lower in the grammatical hierarchy.

On the basis of the grammatical hierarchy of the critical constructs, the "focus" of the action is most definitely NOT towards the place of lunch. Any other basis for stating that "the focus of the action is towards the place of lunch" is both arbitrary and subjective, since every transport has both an origin and a destination, whether explicitly stated or implied.

"He packed some items" is the clause (which trumps the phrase). The focus of the action is away from the origin; the destination does not appear in the clause. That things are leaving the commissary is, in fact, the important part.

Take (and only take) is grammatically correct.

 

[Boxlicker101]

"He packed some items" is a clause, having both a subject (He) and a predicate (packed some items).

"to [bring ? take] along for lunch" is a phrase, which contains no subject, and is therefore lower in the grammatical hierarchy.

On the basis of the grammatical hierarchy of the critical constructs, the "focus" of the action is most definitely NOT towards the place of lunch. Any other basis for stating that "the focus of the action is towards the place of lunch" is both arbitrary and subjective, since every transport has both an origin and a destination, whether explicitly stated or implied.

"He packed some items" is the clause (which trumps the phrase). The focus of the action is away from the origin; the destination does not appear in the clause. That things are leaving the commissary is, in fact, the important part.

Take (and only take) is grammatically correct.

It is an independent clause, because the sentence is compound, with "he" being the subject of both clauses. For the second, "he" is understood. The predicate of the second clause is "packed" and "items," modified by the adjective "some," is a direct object. "To bring" is an infinity, and "along" is an adverb and "for lunch" is a prepositional phrase, and they both modify the verb "bring."

As for whether "bring" or "take" is correct, it depends on the context. For example: "All the campers, including John planned to have a potluck lunch, with everybody providing what he or she chose. He had been to the camp commissary earlier and packed some items to bring along for lunch." "Bring" is correct here, because the emphasis is on acquiring the items for lunch and transporting them to the place of lunch. However,m it is not a good sentence, because of the use of the past perfect verb "had been."

It makes more sense in this context: "John was on a solitary hike across the meadow, and decided to stop to rest and eat under a tree just ahead. He had been to the camp commissary earlier and packed some items to take along for lunch." "Take" is better here, because the main thing is removing the items from the camp commissary for lunch, not the transporting of them, because the destination was not known at the time of the acquisition.

 

[mynameisben]

It is an independent clause, because the sentence is compound, with "he" being the subject of both clauses. For the second, "he" is understood. The predicate of the second clause is "packed" and "items," modified by the adjective "some," is a direct object. "To bring" is an infinity, and "along" is an adverb and "for lunch" is a prepositional phrase, and they both modify the verb "bring."

As for whether "bring" or "take" is correct, it depends on the context. For example: "All the campers, including John planned to have a potluck lunch, with everybody providing what he or she chose. He had been to the camp commissary earlier and packed some items to bring along for lunch." "Bring" is correct here, because the emphasis is on acquiring the items for lunch and transporting them to the place of lunch. However,m it is not a good sentence, because of the use of the past perfect verb "had been."

It makes more sense in this context: "John was on a solitary hike across the meadow, and decided to stop to rest and eat under a tree just ahead. He had been to the camp commissary earlier and packed some items to take along for lunch." "Take" is better here, because the main thing is removing the items from the camp commissary for lunch, not the transporting of them, because the destination was not known at the time of the acquisition.

My argument is based on the assumption that English is a Context Free Grammar, that the grammatical correctness of any given sentence is independent of the presence of any other sentences. The original sentence was, in fact, presented without context. In its context-stripped state, take is the only grammatically correct choice, regardless of the CFG assumption.

However, I concede that English is NOT a context free grammar. Your argument is persuasive, and I agree with you (and Tio) that bring and take are both acceptable, depending on context.

I stand corrected. Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me.

 

[Cattypuss]

"He had been to the camp commissary earlier and packed some items to bring along for lunch."

Ran across this today and wondered if any of you wonder why so many people don't understand the distinction between bring and take. Or has the line blurred so much that it doesn't really matter?

Oh. It must be more complicated than I thought. I thought North Americans said "bring" and Brits said "take" in that sort of context.

I've just learned something.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

"He packed some items" is a clause, having both a subject (He) and a predicate (packed some items).

"to [bring ? take] along for lunch" is a phrase, which contains no subject, and is therefore lower in the grammatical hierarchy.

On the basis of the grammatical hierarchy of the critical constructs, the "focus" of the action is most definitely NOT towards the place of lunch. Any other basis for stating that "the focus of the action is towards the place of lunch" is both arbitrary and subjective, since every transport has both an origin and a destination, whether explicitly stated or implied.

"He packed some items" is the clause (which trumps the phrase). The focus of the action is away from the origin; the destination does not appear in the clause. That things are leaving the commissary is, in fact, the important part.

Take (and only take) is grammatically correct.

The sentence implies that the items were taken from the commissary at some indeterminate earlier time, and their removal from the commissary has no bearing on the current action. The key is that he packed them for lunch and is transporting them to that spot. The focus is on the reason the items are being transported, and, for all we know, he could be on his way to meet the narrator for a picnic. In that case, the narrator should definitely use "bring" rather than "take."

Given what we we don't know, I think either of the deictic forms is acceptable and appropriate, though the context may lead to a preference for one over the other.

(And what would we do without such points to argue...

 

[3113]

Grammar Girl had a podcast about this several years ago.

"Whether you use bring or take depends on your point of reference for the action. The quick and dirty tip is that you ask people to bring things to the place you are, and you take things to the place you are going."

Good tip. Thanks for posting that.

 

[mynameisben]

The sentence implies that the items were taken from the commissary at some indeterminate earlier time, and their removal from the commissary has no bearing on the current action. The key is that he packed them for lunch and is transporting them to that spot. The focus is on the reason the items are being transported, and, for all we know, he could be on his way to meet the narrator for a picnic. In that case, the narrator should definitely use "bring" rather than "take."

Given what we we don't know, I think either of the deictic forms is acceptable and appropriate, though the context may lead to a preference for one over the other.

(And what would we do without such points to argue...

Given what we don't know, we'd all be know-it-all's.

 

[TE999]

You bring casseroles, the sheaves and a date.

You take a letter, five and a crap.

 

[Cattypuss]

You bring casseroles, the sheaves and a date.

You take a letter, five and a crap.

Ah. But on this side of the Atlantic you don't take a crap. You have a crap.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Ah. But on this side of the Atlantic you don't take a crap. You have a crap.

Can you have your crap and take it too?

 

[sr71plt]

"Take" is erotic; "bring" is not. The End.

 

[TE999]

Can you have your crap and take it too?

I think it's best to leave it.