How do I help someone appreciate poetry?

[twelveoone]

I found this old thread started by WickedEve, thought it was a strange and interesting question, of which I don't have an answer to, not even a flip one.
What was interesting was...Jackson Pollock

 

[vrosej10]

I found this old thread started by WickedEve, thought it was a strange and interesting question, of which I don't have an answer to, not even a flip one.
What was interesting was...Jackson Pollock

I think this is a hard one. Poetry is largely symbolic in nature and I have noticed that the people who seem not to get symbolic language never learn it no matter how hard they might try; I think it might be a brain wiring thing.

I think if I was trying this, I would find poetry on subject matter about which they are passionate; maybe the kick in the guts of something really intense might encourage them to look closer.

 

[twelveoone]

I think this is a hard one. Poetry is largely symbolic in nature and I have noticed that the people who seem not to get symbolic language never learn it no matter how hard they might try; I think it might be a brain wiring thing.

I think if I was trying this, I would find poetry on subject matter about which they are passionate; maybe the kick in the guts of something really intense might encourage them to look closer.

ahh, we think alike. In the thread the way it was described was it sounded like they were either hitting on her, or they were Men in Black, or aliens, the space kind.

It has to be a brain wiring thing. Auden (I think) had this great quote about a person having the "stuff" if he said something to the effect of he just liked hanging around with words.

 

[vrosej10]

ahh, we think alike. In the thread the way it was described was it sounded like they were either hitting on her, or they were Men in Black, or aliens, the space kind.

It has to be a brain wiring thing. Auden (I think) had this great quote about a person having the "stuff" if he said something to the effect of he just liked hanging around with words.

My mother is what makes me think it is brain wiring. She has absolutely no ability to recognise the simplest symbolic connections. She can't even understand what I mean by it.

i am the other way. I can see the symbolic nature of just about everything (I am great at dream interpretation and divining the nature of omens, handy given I am Neopagan). I do wonder whether it is because I am left handed and she's a righty. The right side of your brain is supposed to be all about symbols...

 

[butters]

if they already have 'the stuff', then it has to be easier - simply point them in interesting directions to read, get them to try writing if they haven't before, talk to them about why a certain poem does something more than it appears to on the surface.

for those without the initial interest, i think it'd be wasted energy. that's not to say they're stupid or willfully ignorant, just that their 'stuff' might be the sweetness they find in mechanics, or mathematics, or how to lay the perfect patio... yeah, there will always be those with layers of overlap - most have it, but when their skills are their driving force (and when WE don't 'get it' about their crafts) and inform their whole lives, then i don't think trying to get them to appreciate poetry's going to be a fruitful pursuit.

 

[vrosej10]

if they already have 'the stuff', then it has to be easier - simply point them in interesting directions to read, get them to try writing if they haven't before, talk to them about why a certain poem does something more than it appears to on the surface.

for those without the initial interest, i think it'd be wasted energy. that's not to say they're stupid or willfully ignorant, just that their 'stuff' might be the sweetness they find in mechanics, or mathematics, or how to lay the perfect patio... yeah, there will always be those with layers of overlap - most have it, but when their skills are their driving force (and when WE don't 'get it' about their crafts) and inform their whole lives, then i don't think trying to get them to appreciate poetry's going to be a fruitful pursuit.

I only discovered Mum had this deficit when i was trying to help her understand some comments from a teacher in her business class. She is not the most insightful person (don't get me wrong, I do love my mum) and the combination of these two traits was causing her to fail a subject she was smart enough to pass. I have tried introducing her gently to poetry but she can't understand them on more than a superficial level, say if it was a poem about a dog but the dog was a metaphor for crime, she would only get that it is a poem about a dog and be completely mystified when I sat down and showed her how it was a poem about crime...

 

[butters]

I only discovered Mum had this deficit when i was trying to help her understand some comments from a teacher in her business class. She is not the most insightful person (don't get me wrong, I do love my mum) and the combination of these two traits was causing her to fail a subject she was smart enough to pass. I have tried introducing her gently to poetry but she can't understand them on more than a superficial level, say if it was a poem about a dog but the dog was a metaphor for crime, she would only get that it is a poem about a dog and be completely mystified when I sat down and showed her how it was a poem about crime...

it's like they have no doorways opening off the 'one level' corridor. it's a blank alley, the only two points of interest being A and B.

some of us have a few doorways, others many, and some get so lost in the labyrinthe of multiple layers of doorways they never find their way back!

 

[vrosej10]

it's like they have no doorways opening off the 'one level' corridor. it's a blank alley, the only two points of interest being A and B.

some of us have a few doorways, others many, and some get so lost in the labyrinthe of multiple layers of doorways they never find their way back!

I think your right. With Mum I think it might be a symptom of a larger issue with language. Mum is very ASD and I think if she had been a kid now, she would have been diagnosed with Asperger's.

 

[greenmountaineer]

................... (don't get me wrong, I do love my mum) ................... I have tried introducing her gently to poetry but she can't understand them on more than a superficial level, say if it was a poem about a dog but the dog was a metaphor for crime, she would only get that it is a poem about a dog and be completely mystified when I sat down and showed her how it was a poem about crime...

In my career I did some work with Jung's Psychological Type Theory. Long story made short: the practical application of it in the workplace was popularized in the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, commonly known as the MBTI. For reasons not fully understood, some of us perceive the world around us differently than others. There are those who are more intuitive than others who tend to be more detailed and concrete in their perception. I don't want to appear to be pigeon-holing people because one of the important principles of MBTI is that we all share these characteristics, but in different strengths of preference, and that can be measured with the instrument; however, those who prefer an intuitive view of the world around them tend to like poetry whereas others don't for the same reasons they prefer a concrete view of the world.

A colleague of mine with whom I used to train this stuff once said, "I open the refrigerator door and can't see the mustard because I'm thinking about all of the things I'm going to make my sandwich with, so I shout to my wife in the next room, asking her where the mustard is, and she says that it's in the upper right hand compartment on the fridge door, and there it is staring right back at me." He likes poetry; she doesn't.

 

[twelveoone]

In my career I did some work with Jung's Psychological Type Theory. Long story made short: the practical application of it in the workplace was popularized in the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, commonly known as the MBTI. For reasons not fully understood, some of us perceive the world around us differently than others. There are those who are more intuitive than others who tend to be more detailed and concrete in their perception. I don't want to appear to be pigeon-holing people because one of the important principles of MBTI is that we all share these characteristics, but in different strengths of preference, and that can be measured with the instrument; however, those who prefer an intuitive view of the world around them tend to like poetry whereas others don't for the same reasons they prefer a concrete view of the world.

A colleague of mine with whom I used to train this stuff once said, "I open the refrigerator door and can't see the mustard because I'm thinking about all of the things I'm going to make my sandwich with, so I shout to my wife in the next room, asking her where the mustard is, and she says that it's in the upper right hand compartment on the fridge door, and there it is staring right back at me." He likes poetry; she doesn't.

that's great
scary thing, I can't find the fridge, 'cause I get bogged down with the magnets

 

[Palba_Noruda]

if they already have 'the stuff', then it has to be easier - simply point them in interesting directions to read, get them to try writing if they haven't before, talk to them about why a certain poem does something more than it appears to on the surface.

for those without the initial interest, i think it'd be wasted energy. that's not to say they're stupid or willfully ignorant, just that their 'stuff' might be the sweetness they find in mechanics, or mathematics, or how to lay the perfect patio... yeah, there will always be those with layers of overlap - most have it, but when their skills are their driving force (and when WE don't 'get it' about their crafts) and inform their whole lives, then i don't think trying to get them to appreciate poetry's going to be a fruitful pursuit.

I agree, Chip. You can lead a horse to water, and all that jazz.

If you believe in destiny, it seems only natural that some are interested in poetry and some aren't for cosmic reasons beyond our control. Still worthwhile to introduce people to poetry when the opportunity presents itself, but not much sense in beating people over the head with it if they're not into it.

 

[butters]

I agree, Chip. You can lead a horse to water, and all that jazz.

If you believe in destiny, it seems only natural that some are interested in poetry and some aren't for cosmic reasons beyond our control. Still worthwhile to introduce people to poetry when the opportunity presents itself, but not much sense in beating people over the head with it if they're not into it.

hey! long time since i saw you dropping by. good to see you

 

[vrosej10]

In my career I did some work with Jung's Psychological Type Theory. Long story made short: the practical application of it in the workplace was popularized in the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, commonly known as the MBTI. For reasons not fully understood, some of us perceive the world around us differently than others. There are those who are more intuitive than others who tend to be more detailed and concrete in their perception. I don't want to appear to be pigeon-holing people because one of the important principles of MBTI is that we all share these characteristics, but in different strengths of preference, and that can be measured with the instrument; however, those who prefer an intuitive view of the world around them tend to like poetry whereas others don't for the same reasons they prefer a concrete view of the world.

A colleague of mine with whom I used to train this stuff once said, "I open the refrigerator door and can't see the mustard because I'm thinking about all of the things I'm going to make my sandwich with, so I shout to my wife in the next room, asking her where the mustard is, and she says that it's in the upper right hand compartment on the fridge door, and there it is staring right back at me." He likes poetry; she doesn't.

I am ISFJ on myer-briggs...and you're right, Mum has a kind of orderly view of life, that things must progress in a predictable fashion. I am more intuitive.

 

[bronzeage]

I am ISFJ on myer-briggs...and you're right, Mum has a kind of orderly view of life, that things must progress in a predictable fashion. I am more intuitive.

I just took the Myer-Briggs test and discovered I am ENTJ, which means I am a Fieldmarshal.

That's great. Now, I have to buy a hat.

As for helping someone appreciate poetry, I don't think it can be done. They either do or don't. It's not a matter of exposure or education. I used to think my wife appreciated poetry, but I discovered she just likes the sound of my voice.

 

[vrosej10]

I just took the Myer-Briggs test and discovered I am ENTJ, which means I am a Fieldmarshal.

That's great. Now, I have to buy a hat.

As for helping someone appreciate poetry, I don't think it can be done. They either do or don't. It's not a matter of exposure or education. I used to think my wife appreciated poetry, but I discovered she just likes the sound of my voice.

I am the protector. I am lucky, my husband and I have the same personality type so we like to run our lives the same way, I think that's why we are such a good match.

 

[mynameisben]

Appreciating poetry

A Dick Cheney water boarding might coerce someone to appreciate poetry.

 

[twelveoone]

it's like they have no doorways opening off the 'one level' corridor. it's a blank alley, the only two points of interest being A and B.

some of us have a few doorways, others many, and some get so lost in the labyrinthe of multiple layers of doorways they never find their way back!

Do you have game shows over in England? Or is it all High Class Stuff, like Cod Piece Theatre?

 

[Angeline]

Appreciation for poetry can be learned (at least imo as someone who has taught it), but one does need some desire to try. That may be motivated by things that have nothing to do with poetry (like wanting to pass the class), but sometimes love for poetry is born from it.

You know I have two kids who are now old enough to appreciate poetry on their own if they want. I've read some (ok a lot) of my poems to them. They say they like them (and I believe they basically do), but they like them because I wrote them and they love me. They're both literate, both big readers but neither would pick up a book of poems on their own.

I think one needs a love of metaphor and image to feel the spark of connection to poetry. Also an appreciation for language and how it can be manipulated. I know that last thing is what drew me to it.

One other point. When I was teaching middle school English many moons ago I found that my twelve year old students whose eyes would glaze over if we read straight poetry got very excited about song lyrics. I often began my section on poetry by bringing in a record player (I said it was a long time ago lol) and having them read the lyrics along as they listened to the songs.

 

[butters]

Do you have game shows over in England? Or is it all High Class Stuff, like Cod Piece Theatre?

tv is filled with crappy gameshows. plenty of them american imports, but plenty are homegrown, too.

i don't have a lot of time for gameshows, but i do love a spot of QI in the evenings it's also one of my 14 year old son's favourite programmes.

 

[butters]

whenever i've done the meyers-briggs thing, i show as an INFJ or an ENFJ - my E and I are very well balanced, and come out around 49-51 or vice-versa. this calls for another thread, though, so as not to hijack this one

 

[twelveoone]

whenever i've done the meyers-briggs thing, i show as an INFJ or an ENFJ - my E and I are very well balanced, and come out around 49-51 or vice-versa. this calls for another thread, though, so as not to hijack this one

how does BDSM apply? I see alot of it in new poems, although I don't appreciate it much.

 

[twelveoone]

how does BDSM apply? I see alot of it in new poems, although I don't appreciate it much.

EPFF on the Briggs and Stratton
Extra perverted fooled by fantasy
EPFF's rank high...

 

[vrosej10]

how does BDSM apply? I see alot of it in new poems, although I don't appreciate it much.

The BDSM fairy visited me the other day in Chippy's exercise thread. I escaped (barely) limping and confused...

 

[twelveoone]

whenever i've done the meyers-briggs thing, i show as an INFJ or an ENFJ - my E and I are very well balanced, and come out around 49-51 or vice-versa. this calls for another thread, though, so as not to hijack this one

c'mon chip how is this different from the zodiac or any other thing that comes down the business consulate pike?
The Latest Buzz

The process of an education system is to introduce the bees to the business of business, some of the high order drones going on and graduating from B-school.

in other words bullshit, I can hardly wait till the time the West exports this type of non sense to what was formerly third world countries, so that the US and England can regain a sense of parity.

Once was a time, we made shoes, once was a time of Detroit, true you couldn't breathe in Pittsburgh, Birm 'n'ham.
Now all we make is EMT's for fat hearts
dying of shock when the Chinese...
raise their prices
on crap.

 

[twelveoone]

The BDSM fairy visited me the other day in Chippy's exercise thread. I escaped (barely) limping and confused...

that'll teach you
to moon a caner