A LITTLE Realism?

[spyonme7]

The overwhelming problem with effectively ALL of these stories is that every aspect of the subject's deepest fantasies suddenly falls into his lap all at once - no waiting, no work, no effort, no resistance, no cost, no restrictions. It's kind of like, "well I was really horny so I went to a bar and there was this super hot blonde with the perfect body, all by herself, nobody else was bothering her so I walked up to her and bought her a drink and two point four six minutes later she was in my bed doing everything I ever dreamed of. It was just SO HOT!"

Yeah right. The real story would read like this: "I went to 3,748 bars and spent $125,968 over the course of two years and never saw a single female worth approaching who wasn't either already taken or swarmed by 26 other guys. I went to five swinger's parties and nobody would talk to me because I wasn't part of the clique. The sex industry made $1,419,278 off me in that time and I never did get any." THAT'S realistic.

I realize they're just stories, but a LITTLE effort to fulfill all these ultimate fantasies might make things a little more believable.

 

[sr71plt]

The overwhelming problem with effectively ALL of these stories is that every aspect of the subject's deepest fantasies suddenly falls into his lap all at once - no waiting, no work, no effort, no resistance, no cost, no restrictions.

Oh, bullshit. You haven't read "effectively ALL of these stories" on this Web site, have you?

I have 450 stories here myself, and I don't think a single one of them does that.

Why don't you write what you like and post it here rather than complaining about sweeping generalizations that aren't true--or do a little bit better research in finding the stories you read.

 

[PennLady]

I realize they're just stories, but a LITTLE effort to fulfill all these ultimate fantasies might make things a little more believable.

I imagine not everyone wants realism in their fantasies. Hence, they are fantasies.

Like SR71, I think I can safely say I don't have a guy (or woman) walk into bar and come out with their fantasy date in less than five minutes.

There probably isn't one, but I doubt you've read a representative sample of what's here.

 

[kitkat88]

The overwhelming problem with effectively ALL of these stories is that every aspect of the subject's deepest fantasies suddenly falls into his lap all at once - no waiting, no work, no effort, no resistance, no cost, no restrictions. It's kind of like, "well I was really horny so I went to a bar and there was this super hot blonde with the perfect body, all by herself, nobody else was bothering her so I walked up to her and bought her a drink and two point four six minutes later she was in my bed doing everything I ever dreamed of. It was just SO HOT!"

Yeah right. The real story would read like this: "I went to 3,748 bars and spent $125,968 over the course of two years and never saw a single female worth approaching who wasn't either already taken or swarmed by 26 other guys. I went to five swinger's parties and nobody would talk to me because I wasn't part of the clique. The sex industry made $1,419,278 off me in that time and I never did get any." THAT'S realistic.

This is a sex site hon. It's just like a porn movie. The writers only have limited time and space because if the story is to long they get bored and skip to the next one. This is FANTASY. Just like all the girls are hot and all the guys studs. For the record no one strikes out at swing parties dear. First of all you have to be invited which means they know your coming and will have as many unattached females as males or make sure there are couples who like a second man involved so please be factual with your bitching. As for striking out that much at the bar of course the hot girls are swarmed but what about the average looking girls? or are you such a stud that only the hot ones will do. You sound like some one who is sexually frustrated and so bitter that you are angry that even fictional characters get more than you. By the way sorry to intrude here I know this is more for authors but I saw this and had to respond. Typical guy stop being such a shallow prick and maybe you would have some company. Now on to the personals where I will talk dirty to some one I just "met" Imagine that fantasy on a porn site!

 

[CWatson]

I realize they're just stories, but a LITTLE effort to fulfill all these ultimate fantasies might make things a little more believable.

PennLady's point should be taken seriously.

Think about it this way: You live in the real world. I live in the real world. So does PennLady. Our lives are not glamorous. I can only speak for myself, but I was 27 before I got laid for the first time, because I don't ask out many girls, most of the ones I do ask out turn me down, and - of the five that didn't - three dumped me after six weeks and the other two were waiting for marriage. The only reason I don't still have my virginity is that one of the six-weekers was okay with sleeping with on the first date. You better believe I jumped on it.

Do you really want to read a story about that? Most wouldn't. Most don't want to read stories about people being losers, which - for good or ill - we all are, to one degree or another. Most people want to read stories about winners. And sex fiction delivers.

Pornography is about fantasy. We live our real lives every day, and it isn't fun. We don't want more of it from our play. We want something glamorous, something exotic, something different. (In my case, "glamorous and different" generally consisted of getting laid at all, and even in the few months since I lost my virginity I have seen the tilt of my stories moving in another direction.) We want escapism.

Now, it's true that a lot of porn can devolve into really ridiculous escapism, pure fantasy without a grain of reality to be found. But the point to be had is this: without at least a little fantasy, there is no sex fiction. The dollop of fantasy is what makes it sex fiction. You're going to have to accept some unrealism at some point.

(If you want to minimize it, read my works. </shameless self-promotion>)

 

[bashfullyshameless]

Many of the stories here (mine included) are less about the long, hard journey toward getting what you want, but instead the struggle to enjoy and hang onto that success after you've attained it. That alone can be plenty of conflict.

Past that: CWatson's response says most everything else I'd have to say. I certainly didn't come here for angst. Conflict is great. Pain and suffering? That's for another genre of literature.

Or not. You'll find plenty of that here, too. Just keep looking.

 

[michchick98]

As others have said, if you're looking for realism, then reading FREE stories on a FREE porn site isn't exactly the place you want to be looking. Perhaps once you've realize that, you'll realize that the monumental rant you just typed out is pretty much....well, unreal.

 

[Hotcappucino]

"Drama is life with the dull parts left out." - Alfred Hitchcock

No one wants to read a story that details life's monotony, and any story that starts out that way without quickly getting to some sort of hook is going to lose a lot of readers. It is possible to be realistic without including all of that monotony.

 

[Dragonlipz]

The overwhelming problem with effectively ALL of these stories is that every aspect of the subject's deepest fantasies suddenly falls into his lap all at once - no waiting, no work, no effort, no resistance, no cost, no restrictions. It's kind of like, "well I was really horny so I went to a bar and there was this super hot blonde with the perfect body, all by herself, nobody else was bothering her so I walked up to her and bought her a drink and two point four six minutes later she was in my bed doing everything I ever dreamed of. It was just SO HOT!"

Yeah right. The real story would read like this: "I went to 3,748 bars and spent $125,968 over the course of two years and never saw a single female worth approaching who wasn't either already taken or swarmed by 26 other guys. I went to five swinger's parties and nobody would talk to me because I wasn't part of the clique. The sex industry made $1,419,278 off me in that time and I never did get any." THAT'S realistic.

I realize they're just stories, but a LITTLE effort to fulfill all these ultimate fantasies might make things a little more believable.

You haven't read any of mine that are based on interviews and first person accounts of their exploits.....An exception is my Sci-Fi series - the rest are inspired by 'real' events.....

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I don't know if the OP has come back or will be coming back to respond to this thread; after all, the responses have been uniformly critical of his argument. That is unfortunate, because to some extent he does make a valid point. Far too many stories are set in a world were everyone is beautiful and sex is freely available in any form to anyone who merely seeks to step away from his or her computer and proposition the next anatomically perfect person he or she encounters. I find stories like this even more trite and boring than the stories where nothing sexual happens until page seven of an eight page story.

That being said, the OP apparently has not looked beyond the one and two page stroke stories that proliferate this site. There are, indeed, many authors whose stories are more about the chase than the capture; stories where sex is incidental to a broader conflict between characters; stories where unlikely pairings create sexual fireworks due to the disparate circumstances of the partners; and stories where fulfilled fantasies and sated desires lead to tragic consequences.

There is a wide variety of stories and approaches to storytelling available, if one merely takes the time to seek them out.

In general, I would say that the shorter the story, the more likely it is that the sexual encounter is going to commence rapidly and with little build-up or tension. This is not always the case, but probably more correct than incorrect. In many stories, the boring details are left out because they contribute nothing to the story. Many stories involve persons who are already in a relationship. Unless the story is about the obstacles to their couplling, a big build-up is not necessary.

Like other writers, many of my stories are based upon true events. In those stories details are often omitted, timelines are compressed, and two or more persons may be reduced to a single character. This is done to keep the story moving. If I were writing a novel length piece, I would do it differently.

Expand your horizons, read more stories, and learn to separate the wheat from the chaff before you have read more than half a page. Once you find authors your like, read more of their works and then look at their favorites. Often, their favorites will have influenced their work.

 

[sr71plt]

Far too many stories are set in a world were everyone is beautiful and sex is freely available in any form to anyone who merely seeks to step away from his or her computer and proposition the next anatomically perfect person he or she encounters.

And, so, you were elected to be the arbiter of what stories should be on Lit. and what disparate readers are interested in reading here? It's a huge site with a wide variety of approaches to erotica (and nonerotica, as well). I reject your premise as much as the OP's. I seriously doubt you have read even a fraction of the stories here. So, just another sweeping generalization based on supposition--and, possibly your bad choices in reading matter.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

And, so, you were elected to be the arbiter of what stories should be on Lit. and what disparate readers are interested in reading here? It's a huge site with a wide variety of approaches to erotica (and nonerotica, as well). I reject your premise as much as the OP's. I seriously doubt you have read even a fraction of the stories here. So, just another sweeping generalization based on supposition--and, possibly your bad choices in reading matter.

Have you ever noticed that you seek to create conflict where none exists? If you had read the rest of my post, you would have found the following:

"There is a wide variety of stories and approaches to storytelling available, if one merely takes the time to seek them out."

Your point mirrors mine (without attributing the original source, by the way).

I never suggested that any stories should not be published here. You put words in my mouth that were never uttered by me. Rather, I merely stated that too many authors take the easy way out and write stories where impossibly beautiful people have an unrealistically easy time of obtaining sex. I look for more than that in the stories I read. There seems to be an audience for nearly every kind of story posted here. Its a matter of opinion and personal taste. I don't have to read every story to know that I don't like a good percentage of them. However, I would not deny access to those who do.

 

[sr71plt]

Have you ever noticed that you seek to create conflict where none exists? If you had read the rest of my post, you would have found the following:

No, but I have noticed that I interject the "real" here (harking back to the OP), where fantasy even on the discussion board is preferred.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

No, but I have noticed that I interject the "real" here (harking back to the OP), where fantasy even on the discussion board is preferred.

If by "interject the 'real'" you mean "construct straw man arguments," then I see your point.

 

[polynices]

The overwhelming problem with effectively ALL of these stories is that every aspect of the subject's deepest fantasies suddenly falls into his lap all at once - no waiting, no work, no effort, no resistance, no cost, no restrictions. It's kind of like, "well I was really horny so I went to a bar and there was this super hot blonde with the perfect body, all by herself, nobody else was bothering her so I walked up to her and bought her a drink and two point four six minutes later she was in my bed doing everything I ever dreamed of. It was just SO HOT!"

Yeah right. The real story would read like this: "I went to 3,748 bars and spent $125,968 over the course of two years and never saw a single female worth approaching who wasn't either already taken or swarmed by 26 other guys. I went to five swinger's parties and nobody would talk to me because I wasn't part of the clique. The sex industry made $1,419,278 off me in that time and I never did get any." THAT'S realistic.

I realize they're just stories, but a LITTLE effort to fulfill all these ultimate fantasies might make things a little more believable.

I actually have some sympathy with the original post. To start with, I found it funny. In addition, although I agree that neither the original poster, nor I, nor anyone else can possibly have read every story on Literotica, I think what he says does cover an awful lot of the archive: in general Literotica stories deal in fantasy and wish-fulfillment to the exclusion of more realistic fiction.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not against fantasy and I'm not against wish-fulfillment. The greatest strength of Literotica as a site is that (almost) anything goes. We're free to write what we like. I'd also argue that there are some very, very good (i.e. effective) fantasies on the site. However, I've felt for a long time that there's a general type of Literotica story - a set of general norms that most stories conform to one way or another. It would be impossible to define those norms exhaustively here (and they are only a tendency anyway) - but, just as video pornography tends to have women with impossibly perfect breasts and so on (as well as impossibly perfect orgasms, of course), Literotica stories tend to deal in perfect sexual encounters. I don't condemn that out of hand, but I think there is room for other types of erotica which have a more convincing ring of truth. (Within the limits of fiction, of course. There's always that.)

I ought to say in closing that most of my own stories do conform to some kind of fantasy stereotype. I'm not setting myself up as Mr Perfect here, and I'm not unhappy to have posted my fantasies. But I think one important aspect of trying to write fiction involves an attempt to break out of pre-existing notions - of existing conventions: to write fiction that's fresh, that is. So I welcome spyonme7's contribution. He may not have the whole truth on his side, but I think his opinion is well-worth taking seriously.

- polynices

 

[sr71plt]

If by "interject the 'real'" you mean "construct straw man arguments," then I see your point.

Ummm, no. So you don't see my point. I tend to rankle at false strawman arguments--exactly like some sweeping generalization premises made on this thread. That's OK, you can think what you please.

 

[sr71plt]

However, I've felt for a long time that there's a general type of Literotica story - a set of general norms that most stories conform to one way or another.

To the extent that's true, it's because there's a general type of reader coming to Literotica. Look at the stories with the highest reads and vote counts. This is a broad-based site, and the largest collection of readers seem to be ones wanting a fast orgasm--or to fulfil fantasies of sleeping with their mother. I say stop complaining about what other folks like to write and/or read and dig out the stories that you like. There's a ton of every variety here and the site isn't here for just the readers with their noses in the air. (Although, don't get me wrong on that. I personally write most of my stories to appeal to the readers with their noses in the air.)

Interesting point on the move to conform. In past years we've had regular contributors to the Feedback forum giving "everyone does/should" type critiques. Thank god we seem to have gotten beyond that here.

 

[polynices]

Quote:
Originally Posted by polynices
However, I've felt for a long time that there's a general type of Literotica story - a set of general norms that most stories conform to one way or another.

To the extent that's true, it's because there's a general type of reader coming to Literotica. Look at the stories with the highest reads and vote counts. This is a broad-based site, and the largest collection of readers seem to be ones wanting a fast orgasm--or to fulfil fantasies of sleeping with their mother.

Yes, I agree. It's possible to ignore our perceptions of what's popular, of course, but there is a pressure on most of us to conform to reader expectations. We don't write in a vacuum - most us don't anyway.

I say stop complaining about what other folks like to write and/or read and dig out the stories that you like. There's a ton of every variety here and the site isn't here for just the readers with their noses in the air. (Although, don't get me wrong on that. I personally write most of my stories to appeal to the readers with their noses in the air.)

I imagine you're characterizing the original poster here. We'll have to agree to differ on that, perhaps. I'd agree, of course, that he can't legislate on what should or shouldn't be posted here, but I don't think he was really trying to do that anyway - on my reading, at least.

Interesting point on the move to conform. In past years we've had regular contributors to the Feedback forum giving "everyone does/should" type critiques. Thank god we seem to have gotten beyond that here.

For me, all fiction writing involves a tension between trying to meet readers' expectations and keeping the writing fresh. It's a tug of war. If we meet expectations 100%, we just produce pabulum; but if we completely ignore their expectations, what we write is unintelligible.

- polynices

 

[sr71plt]

For me, all fiction writing involves a tension between trying to meet readers' expectations and keeping the writing fresh. It's a tug of war. If we meet expectations 100%, we just produce pabulum; but if we completely ignore their expectations, what we write is unintelligible.

I agree. I haven't been posting here to what I write--or try to write--but rather on what others should be given room to write and read here as well without someone with no real interest in what they write/read complaining about and ragging on them.

 

[estragon]

Diff'rent Strokes for Diff'rent Folks

Guys, Live and let live, love and let love, bitch and let bitch--Laurel and Manu have pitched a very big tent; there's room for all of us, so let's each of us write what s/he wants to write. And the readers can read what they like, ignore what they don't, or bail out if they can't stand the whole shebang. And if anybody has their nose in the air, I quote the late Oscar Hammerstein II: "When you walk, through a storm, hold your chin up high, and the rain, will run right, down your nose."

 

[sr71plt]

I quote the late Oscar Hammerstein II: "When you walk, through a storm, hold your chin up high, and the rain, will run right, down your nose."

Don't forget the next line: "And you won't be afraid of dehydration."

 

[RandallKinds]

I realize they're just stories, but a LITTLE effort to fulfill all these ultimate fantasies might make things a little more believable.

Sounds like a challenge to me!

 

[LulaBlue]

"Drama is life with the dull parts left out." - Alfred Hitchcock

No one wants to read a story that details life's monotony, and any story that starts out that way without quickly getting to some sort of hook is going to lose a lot of readers. It is possible to be realistic without including all of that monotony.

This is how I see it; the Hitchcock quote is particularly adroit

Seems to me there are two separate issues that could be part of the complaint: [1] all of these stories feature people getting lucky, so to speak, with everything (and everyone) coming together quickly, which in the scheme of every day is rare; and [2] the details of many of the stories seem unrealistic. I'd agree with [2] at times: part of writing is to get that suspension of disbelief going. When you're writing in particular genres, that can be half the battle. With Writin' Blue, for me at least that means things like not having sex acts that are either impossible or implausible as written, or having people who fit every possible cliche of "desirable", to the point where sometimes it's clear the writer might not actually know what he or she is talking about, much less the rudiments of biology (I'm thinking when someone goes overboard and says something like "my massive manstick is 12 inches long, and 6 inches in diameter [I'm no math teacher, but I think he was thinking of "circumference" -- I saw this once in a story long ago and it is most unfortunate] and I come a cup at a time!") That's a legitimate bone to pick, sure, when every character is Barbie or Ken now with superior genitalia.

But [1]...as Hotcappuccino said...stories are about the out-of-the-ordinary, even if they're presented as the ordinary. Otherwise, there is no dramatic tension and no story arc. The details the OP gives (which are pretty amusing) could be worked into an erotic story...but then someone better put out eventually, or there is no payoff for the reader. Who'd want to read that? It's not a story. In this genre, even if you're writing a bonafide story, and not a little vignette to stroke to, IMO the pacing had better move pretty quick into the payoff. I tend to like to start in the middle of things, or pretty close to it, myself. YMMV.

If I write about a real-life experience, things may be colored more positively than they actually were, though a lot of that might be due to the emotional state I was in at the time that I'm trying to convey. Because if I *am* getting very lucky, lucky enough to one day write about, I'm not going to be looking for the pimples on the butt of reality, so to speak. I did once write an account of *terrible sex* I once had, and it was written as it happened, but phrased to make it plain it was funny. In retrospect. At the time it was just terrible. So yes, I might idealize a bit, but it has everything to do with what I'm trying to convey emotionally, if that makes sense.

 

[polynices]

An attempt at realism in erotica

Although, as I've already admitted, most of my stories on Literotica conform to fantasy stereotypes in one way or another, I have made a few attempts at something like realism. Here's a very short example:

http://www.literotica.com/s/klimt-etc

The story's luke-warm reception seems to bear out the theory that most Literotica readers don't come here for realism - though I'd accept that my attempt at realism may not be the only reason for the lack of reader response.

Anyway, for what it's worth, this may be an example of realistic erotica. Putting aside the issue of the relative merits (or lack of them) of this particular piece as a story, it does point to the kind of writing I'd personally like to see more of on Literotica. (But not, I hasten to add, to the exclusion of straightforward sex fantasies. I firmly believe there's room for both.)

- polynices

 

[estragon]

Poly, Great Story

written for adults. That this site has room for this as well as stroke is why I enjoy this site to much.