Making characters realistic?

[teknight]

Hi, all.
As my sig proudly proclaims, I've recently (yesterday, relative to the time of this post) had my first story published on lit. It happens to be my first piece of fiction ever.
One of the comments that I've received mentions that my characters are flat. I'm not saying they're not- if anything, I was trying to keep them vague, in the hopes that more people would identify with them.

I have a few questions:
How does one make characters "real"? What sort of touches do you use?

I've heard it said that lit is sort of like mainstream porn- people come here for the fantasy, hence all the characters need to be stereotypically ideal. Do you agree with this? Can one have a blonde, DDD porn starlet wannabe princess slut*...and make her be realistic?

I appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks.


*used for illustrative purposes only. YMMV.

 

[Bebeslut]

I had the four characters who make up the core of my stories in mind before I started writing about them. They are not "Barbie Finally Does Ken" nor "Betty and Veronica Go Bi." I think they are individuals, with individual traits and ambitions.
The thing that helped me in creating the characters is that I had a couple of real-life people in mind when I created them, girls I had seen in amateur porno who struck me. I based a couple of my characters on them; as I wrote, they gained more individual characteristics.
You will find that most of the authors here in AH feel that character is very important to their stories. There are hundreds of thousands of porn characters who are vague, and therefore not very interesting.
I'd go for creating the best characters and stories that you can, and forget what other people think about them. Just do the best job you can.

Hi, all.
As my sig proudly proclaims, I've recently (yesterday, relative to the time of this post) had my first story published on lit. It happens to be my first piece of fiction ever.
One of the comments that I've received mentions that my characters are flat. I'm not saying they're not- if anything, I was trying to keep them vague, in the hopes that more people would identify with them.

I have a few questions:
How does one make characters "real"? What sort of touches do you use?

I've heard it said that lit is sort of like mainstream porn- people come here for the fantasy, hence all the characters need to be stereotypically ideal. Do you agree with this? Can one have a blonde, DDD porn starlet wannabe princess slut*...and make her be realistic?

I appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks.


*used for illustrative purposes only. YMMV.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Hi, all.
As my sig proudly proclaims, I've recently (yesterday, relative to the time of this post) had my first story published on lit. It happens to be my first piece of fiction ever.
One of the comments that I've received mentions that my characters are flat. I'm not saying they're not- if anything, I was trying to keep them vague, in the hopes that more people would identify with them.

I have a few questions:
How does one make characters "real"? What sort of touches do you use?

I've heard it said that lit is sort of like mainstream porn- people come here for the fantasy, hence all the characters need to be stereotypically ideal. Do you agree with this? Can one have a blonde, DDD porn starlet wannabe princess slut*...and make her be realistic?

I appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks.


*used for illustrative purposes only. YMMV.

I wasn't going to comment, but when I read your comment about the "blonde, DDD porn starlet" I had to jump in.

This is just my personal opinion mind you, but the thing that gets me to click out of a story quickly is as soon as I read bra size or measurements.

I read stories for fantasy not sci-fi. Every chick running around does not have 38" DD tits. Once I read that it doesn't make any difference what kind of character development they writer might have created, because I know he/she is writing stereotypical hack crap.

I look for a character I can relate to, not some plastic, Barbie doll. To make a fantasy GOOD, which is why we all read them, you need to have a character who is real enough for you to relate to and often that might mean that they have little flaws or an A cup.

 

[3113]

If we think about the history of comic book characters, we can kinda see how to develop characters from flat to rich. Back in the early days, comic book characters were flat because they had to be (by law almost) aimed at kids. So if you think about comic books either old or aimed at kids, you see a flat character.

What we find is that such characters have no real likes or dislikes out of what is needed for the story (like "yum, apple pie!" so they can steal it out a window, or "That's breaking the law! That's wrong!" so they can stop a criminal). They have no unique way of talking, no life or background outside of their adventures. They never change and there are never consequences or repercussions to their actions (they throw cars but no innocent person gets killed and it's all cleaned up by next comic book). They usually have one stereotypical trait that identifies them like "rich girl" or "the class clown" or the "snooping reporter"--that is all they are, they never learn, never change directions, never develop.

Okay. Move up to when comic book character took on two-dimensions. There in the 60's when they started to be for teens. What you'll notice is that writers gave them backgrounds. They now had parents or came from an orphanage or had siblings, and it mattered. Batman brooded about his murdered parents. Spiderman worried about his sick aunt. Superman doted on his adopted mom.

They also had at least one psychological/emotional problem. Like guilt or loneliness or anger.

This one core "problem" is where that connection can be made while keeping characters "vague" so that everyone can identify with them. Because we all feel these things sometimes. We all feel angry or frustrated. So if our class clown is really angry on the inside and dealing with parents and siblings, now we feel they're not a flat character. We identify. We connect. Most superhero movies these days feature such characters.

That may be as far as you need to go for your purposes, meaning to make the characters not-flat. Give them such elements as you would give to a superhero. Does that help?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

All we really know of real people is what they say and do. So I dont do mind reading or interpretation of my characters. When they sweat thats what I write; if I assemble the action and description competently the reader oughta get the idea of whazzup with the character.

I also add real background to the scenes...kids quarreling and crying and squealing outside. A firetruck wailing down a nearby street. Lucy and Ricky on the tv. Jimmy Dorsey on the radio. The ice cream man's bicycle bell.

 

[stephen55]

Can one have a blonde, DDD porn starlet wannabe princess slut*...and make her be realistic?

In a word, yes. It's possible.

The question is; are you going to be able to pull it off? Perhaps a more realistic woman as your character would make for a better story.

 

[favoritesgoddess]

What makes a character interesting to me is what's going on in her head. What motivates her to do what she does? I want to know where she's at emotionally. Flaws are interesting. Though come to that, even if she's entirely perfect in every way, you can make her interesting by letting us see how she feels about being perfect. Is it a struggle? How has the world's perception of her influenced the way she relates to it?

What struck me is where you said "...lit is sort of like mainstream porn- people come here for the fantasy, hence all the characters need to be stereotypically ideal." That mindset is why mainstream porn is a vast sea of mindless, boring fucking, and Lit is overpopulated with unimaginative porn. You can decide if you want to add to it, or if you want to offer something outside of the mainstream for those not impressed by the stereotypical ideal. It's up to you, and I don't think there's a wrong answer. Either way you're bound to make someone happy.

 

[driphoney]

Hi, all.

How does one make characters "real"? What sort of touches do you use?

I've heard it said that lit is sort of like mainstream porn- people come here for the fantasy, hence all the characters need to be stereotypically ideal. Do you agree with this? Can one have a blonde, DDD porn starlet wannabe princess slut*...and make her be realistic?

I appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks.

You heard that?

I think it's common, but I think that not only do they not need to be (though it's fine if they are), it's best if they are not.

I think it's treading on dangerous ground to say any story of any type has to be any specific way, but I do think it builds a more interesting story, and attracts me more as a reader, when lead characters are less than perfect.

Think of it like this: a story has some sort of message or a journey, if it doesn't, even if it's just porn, it's kind of boring, right? Where can you take perfect characters? How can they change? Grow? How can we relate?

About your DDD breasted babe. I think there's room in porn for that, I think there's room for large cocks, too. But I think it takes a delicate hand to do it well. Practice. SR often writes large cocks into his stories, but he doesn't get out a tape measure and he's skilled at making it believable.

Quint's take on characters

Congrats on your first story.

 

[bronzeage]

Hi, all.
As my sig proudly proclaims, I've recently (yesterday, relative to the time of this post) had my first story published on lit. It happens to be my first piece of fiction ever.
One of the comments that I've received mentions that my characters are flat. I'm not saying they're not- if anything, I was trying to keep them vague, in the hopes that more people would identify with them.

I have a few questions:
How does one make characters "real"? What sort of touches do you use?

I've heard it said that lit is sort of like mainstream porn- people come here for the fantasy, hence all the characters need to be stereotypically ideal. Do you agree with this? Can one have a blonde, DDD porn starlet wannabe princess slut*...and make her be realistic?

I appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks.


*used for illustrative purposes only. YMMV.

It's nice when a reader identifies with a character, but not necessary. The keep to realistic characters is their reaction to the situation. Everyone has a plausible reason for every conscious decision. When a character does something implausible, the reader steps back and says, "what the fuck?"

"Plausible" does not mean clever. It simply means the character pursues whatever is wanted. If the character is set up as a happily married woman with a wonderful husband, she is not going to have sex with the vinyl siding salesman. If she does, the reader says, What the fuck?" and dismisses the story as "unrealistic".

It does not take much work from the writer to show she is not really happy and does not think the husband is wonderful. Once she is shown to be discontent and not very smart, almost anything can happen.

 

[sr71plt]

I think you can make your "blonde, DDD porn starlet wannabe princess slut" a believable character by giving her some other surprising quirks (while not being so descriptive of the sterotyped ones--all of those elements can be there in the character, and readers actually are comforted by some stereotypes, but it works better if they conclude that sterotype from "shown" hints rather than flat telling--and if they can relate the character to someone they actually know). Describing too much is as offputting as describing too little. The reader will be engaged by making assumptions and discoveries about the character themselves as the story progresses and will be especially interested if the character spins out to be not quite as first impressions made her out to be.

Surprising character quirks that seem tangential at first but later turn out to be key to the story are also particularly effective. (E.g., that sharp metal nail file that the blonde starlet is using to destraction or the gum she's always irritatingly popping help define her character, but they can also become key to the story when she fights off a rapist with said nail file or when the wife of her lover finds a wad of chewing gum under the edge or her nightstand.)

 

[LizzyDark]

Hi, all.
As my sig proudly proclaims, I've recently (yesterday, relative to the time of this post) had my first story published on lit. It happens to be my first piece of fiction ever.
One of the comments that I've received mentions that my characters are flat. I'm not saying they're not- if anything, I was trying to keep them vague, in the hopes that more people would identify with them.

I have a few questions:
How does one make characters "real"? What sort of touches do you use?

I've heard it said that lit is sort of like mainstream porn- people come here for the fantasy, hence all the characters need to be stereotypically ideal. Do you agree with this? Can one have a blonde, DDD porn starlet wannabe princess slut*...and make her be realistic?

I appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks.


*used for illustrative purposes only. YMMV.

You fell into the usual beginner's trap of trying to make your reader put themselves in the story. There's no tried and true method of doing this because everyone is different and they're all going to react to different things. Making your characters flat and blank just leaves you with boring characters that only flat, blank, boring people will find anything to identify with.

The first thing you need to consider is your audience. Who are you trying to get off with these stories? And, let's be honest here, if you're a straight man, odds are you're going to be writing stories for other straight guys. The good news about that is you already have a fairly good idea about what they might like. Start writing to that strength--write erotica you'd want to read.

The second thing you need to consider in character development isn't trying to write characters for people to identify with. It won't work. Write characters that are real, fleshed out people, and readers will naturally start identifying with them. Before you write a character, start thinking of what kind of person that character is. Are they a Coke or Pepsi person? Do they sleep late? Are they in denial about something? Once you've determined all these things in your head DON'T WRITE THEM. When you know the character, when you've thought them through, write them as they would react to the situations you put them in. The qualities you've given them might come out in the natural action of the story, but as long as you know the characters in a realistic sense, you'll be able to write them in a more realistic sense without ever listing bra size or cola preference explicitly.

 

[ishtat]

Emma

"Emma Woodhouse, handsome clever and rich" the first sentence of the novel.

Jane Austen spends the first few paragraphs on her personality and history but no physical description.

Seems to work.

 

[Weird Harold]

One of the comments that I've received mentions that my characters are flat.

On a hunch, I C&P your story into Word 97 and checked the readability statistics -- your story is "4% passive voice sentences" and yur first paragraph is "20% passive voice sentences."

That is important because of an explanation I found on Purdue University's Online writing Lab for Passive voice:

Overuse of passive voice thoroughout an essay can make your prose seem flat and unintersting

(I'm pretty sure the OWL has been updated several time since, so I can't say it is the current explanation)


In trying to cure my problem with passive voice, I discovered that the predicted effect can show up with a passive voice sentences percentage as low as 3%. I conjecture that the percentage is so low because of two points:

1) There are just fewer sentences where passive or active voice is a consideration. The majority of sentences are neither active nor passive.

2) The thought patterns that lead to choosing passive voice over active voice where a choice is possible also affect the word choices and sentence structure to create an overall passive narrative style.

I don't think your characters are necessarily "flat" I think the surrounding text makes them seem flat.

One other thing that will improve your characterizations -- your dialogue is a bit stilted. It's lot better than many first stories, but it could stand to be less formal and more colloquial. Let your characters talk more, too; conversational asides and tangents can reveal a lot about your characters with surprisingly few words.

For example:

"Steve, I don't mind you ogling my bod, but I didn't let my son talk me into recommending you last month so you could do it at work," Kay teased her son's best friend. She set her fresh cup of coffe aside, turned back to the data for her monthly presentation and scrolled down to the next screen.

 

[LizzyDark]

"Emma Woodhouse, handsome clever and rich" the first sentence of the novel.

Jane Austen spends the first few paragraphs on her personality and history but no physical description.

Seems to work.

I love Jane Austen, but she was a Romantic. We're in the midst of Post-Modernism where we don't write out the character's entire life story to that point in the first three pages of them appearing in the story. The way Austen wrote was very typical of Victorian writers, but if you wrote like her now, people would wonder why you were trying to write in a style that faded almost a century ago. It's the same reason modern playwrights don't sound anything like Shakespeare. In Post-Modernism, the information of handsome, clever, and rich would have to come out through the action of the story; we shifted away from telling to showing in our writing.

 

[sr71plt]

You fell into the usual beginner's trap of trying to make your reader put themselves in the story.

You are saying the beginner shouldn't try to make his/her reader put her/himself in the story? Sorry, but putting the reader into the story is a very good technique to keep your reader reading your stories. And beginners don't become experienced by avoiding trying out what are good writing techinques just because they probably won't be experts at it right out of the gate.

 

[sr71plt]

On a hunch, I C&P your story into Word 97 and checked the readability statistics -- your story is "4% passive voice sentences" and yur first paragraph is "20% passive voice sentences."

A 4% passive voice count across a short story is a very good count. And 20% passive voice in a paragraph is only an indication to look at the paragraph to see if the passive wasn't the best choice. We have passive voice because it sometimes is the right choice for the context.

 

[LizzyDark]

You are saying the beginner shouldn't try to make his/her reader put her/himself in the story? Sorry, but putting the reader into the story is a very good technique to keep your reader reading your stories. And beginners don't become experienced by avoiding trying out what are good writing techinques just because they probably won't be experts at it right out of the gate.

You can't force your reader to do anything, least of all put themselves into a story if they don't identify with characters in the story. What's more, trying to predict which character a reader will identify with is a total fools errand. Don't try to manipulate your readers with cheap tricks--write vibrant, interesting characters doing fun and interesting things and let your readers be drawn in by them.

Writing blank canvas characters is NOT a good writing technique. My point was that it was a common mistake that most writers move past when they gain more experience, so he shouldn't feel bad about trying it because most everyone does.

 

[Weird Harold]

A 4% passive voice count across a short story is a very good count. ... We have passive voice because it sometimes is the right choice for the context.

0% passive voice is even better -- unless there is a very specific, conscious, purpose for using it. Otherwise, you run into the effect predicted by the quote from Purdue's OWL: "Your prose can seem flat and uninteresting" -- which, coincidently, is what his readers complained about.

 

[DeeZire]

I don't think LIT readers want realistic characters. When I portrayed a middle-aged mom with "saggy boobs" I caught hell for it. Readers here want everything idealized. They're the equivalent of the readers of Romance books who demand a happy ending every single time.

On the one hand, aspiring to write more realistic characters is an admirable goal. On the other hand, be careful about how realistic you make them.

 

[sr71plt]

0% passive voice is even better -- unless there is a very specific, conscious, purpose for using it.

Which, again, could very well turn out to be 4%. When you tell a developing writer they need to use 0% passive voice and no adverbs--and they believe you--you have just stopped their creative writing development dead in its tracks.

 

[sr71plt]

You can't force your reader to do anything, least of all put themselves into a story if they don't identify with characters in the story. What's more, trying to predict which character a reader will identify with is a total fools errand. Don't try to manipulate your readers with cheap tricks--write vibrant, interesting characters doing fun and interesting things and let your readers be drawn in by them.

Writing blank canvas characters is NOT a good writing technique. My point was that it was a common mistake that most writers move past when they gain more experience, so he shouldn't feel bad about trying it because most everyone does.

We'll chat further maybe when you get around to addressing what I actually post.

I love it when a poster who has been on Lit. all of one month and has only one story in the Lit. story file is telling "beginners" how to write and what flies or doesn't fly in erotica.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think LIT readers want realistic characters. .

I think most of the Lit readers who respond to my stories do. And they evidently like realistic situations and storylines too. Unless I'm concentrating on the heat in a work posted to Lit--which I do too. I don't have just one audience set.

There's no "one reader covering all" at Lit.

 

[3113]

I don't think LIT readers want realistic characters. When I portrayed a middle-aged mom with "saggy boobs" I caught hell for it.

Depends on which category and what the tagline warns the reader they're going to get. I have a romance story with very plain, 30-something characters with stretch marks and love-handles and such. It's in the romance section and it's done just fine. I've never gotten hell, let alone one complaint, that the characters weren't the cookie-cutter fantasy all porn stories ought to have.

If, however, I had put this story in certain categories, I'm absolutely sure I would have gotten hell for not making them young and sexy.

 

[sr71plt]

Depends on which category and what the tagline warns the reader they're going to get. I have a romance story with very plain, 30-something characters with stretch marks and love-handles and such. It's in the romance section and it's done just fine. I've never gotten hell, let alone one complaint, that the characters weren't the cookie-cutter fantasy all porn stories ought to have.

If, however, I had put this story in certain categories, I'm absolutely sure I would have gotten hell for not making them young and sexy.

Ah, yes, one of my highest rated/most read/commented stories on Lit. is a nonerotic one about a mentally stressed housewife, and the entire story is about the flip flops going on in her brain.

 

[3113]

Bullshit

I've heard it said that lit is sort of like mainstream porn- people come here for the fantasy, hence all the characters need to be stereotypically ideal. Do you agree with this?

We will agree that erotic literature is fantasy literature to a point. But to say that means that all characters need to be stereotypically ideal is complete and utter bullshit. B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T.

Have you even LOOKED at the categories of pornographic "fantasy" literature that are offered to readers on this site? Literotica has something like twenty-six categories including "Mature" (that means older characters--so your DDD porn slut is in her 60's), "transexuals" (that means your DDD blond slut has a dick) "interracial" (DDD slut is Asian and wearing a blond wig), and "Toys" (DDD porn slut is a doll!).

All these categories have tons of stories in them, and all those stories have been read by tons of readers. Which means that readers of porn have fantasies that include characters above and beyond (sometimes waaaaaay beyond) the "mainstream" stereotype. Some of these readers are women who want to read a story with a heroine who looks like them--meaning flat, or fat or old. Some of them are men who want to read a story with a girl who looks like the woman they're lusting after--meaning skinny or fat or a with a dick (it may shock you to your core, but not all men want that DDD blonde). Some of them don't want a girl in the story at all. Some want a creature with tentacles!

I promise, promise, promise you that if you write a story with whatever looking hero/heroine having whatever kind of sex (so long as it's allowed by the site), there will be readers out there to appreciate it.

And I promise you that whatever you write, even if it includes a DDD blond slut, you won't please every reader. What else is new, right? Pick out the donut from the box that you like, not the one glazed with sugar because that's the most popular. Those that are bored with the glazed will thank you for giving them one covered in nuts or dripping with chocolate instead.

Besides, those who have only the glazed, day after day, really aren't worth going after. They tend to read stories and move on, never favoring any, never leaving comments or feedback or votes, never remembering who wrote what. Why should they? To them, all such stories are the same.