Copyright Mix-up Got Me Rejected - Vent-and-Rant

[estragon]

This is a vent-and-rant, so if you don't want to hear it, tune out now. If you feel like making wiseguy, snarky remarks, knock yourselves out; most wiseguy, snarky remarks only serve as evidence of the intelligence and morals of those who make them.

I wrote what I thought was a great story, but I was using dweaver999's wonderful Valerie characters. If you haven't read the Valerie and Death of a Master and Stranger than Truth series, stop reading my crap and read those. dweaver999 is a Grand Master. His characters are alive and vivid, as real to me as people I meet every day (and if you ride mass transit as I do every working day, you'll see there are plenty of unreal people).

Of course before I would even think of submitting my story, I requested permission from dweaver999 to use his characters and e-mailed him my draft, stating that if he did not reply affirmatively, or did not wish me to submit, I would never offer the story for publication anywhere. I respect the copyright laws; if you've ever been sued as a defendant personally (and I have, but not over copyrights), you know what pain is--even if you win (and I did), you lost.

dweaver999 very kindly commented on my story, made some very important changes and encouraged me. Of course I owe dweaver999 an unrepayable debt. To receive attention from a Grand Master of our craft is the height of achievement. After making all the changes dweaver999 directed, I got dweaver999's permission to publish on a single-use license, one-time. I submitted my story to Literotica as a "Celebrities" item, fan fiction, as dweaver999 had directed me to do. I added at the end an extensive copyright notice, stating that dweaver999's characters and other details of his marvelous stories were his exclusively, and that I had a single-use license, one-time, from dweaver999.

My story was rejected, the grounds being that I had to obtain permission from dweaver999. I had permission; I e-mailed back on the "contact us" link, offering to forward the entire e-correspondence I had had with dweaver999 to prove I had permission.

No answer.

This is unfair and unjust.

My story was a Christmas story. I had hoped for a Christmastime publication. I resubmitted as soon as I got the rejection, again offering to forward the entire e-correspondence to prove I had permission. Now it will not be published when I wanted it published, if it's even published at all.

I know I have no right to be published on Literotica, and if I don't like whatever Literotica does I can go elsewhere. I understand that Literotica does not want to be involved, much less play referee, in a copyright fight.

But at least let me show that I acted properly and justly before accusing me of stealing someone else's work.

This is the best erotic literature site there is--I'm sure you all know the snuff, pedophile, bestiality trash that you find elsewhere, and it's nauseating. Literotica has standards, and some beautiful writing, worthy of being published in the mainstream. Writers like dweaver999 and Sir_Nathan (and I'm sure all of you have other favorites of equal stature) set a bar so high that I am sure I will never reach. To be allowed to play on the same field as the champions is a privilege I would cherish, even though my standard of play is laughably below theirs.

If you've read this far, thank you. I am hurt, angry and bitter. Those feelings will go away. But the feeling that I was unjustly treated will take a lot longer.

 

[Darkniciad]

They really need to do something about the "contact us" link. More or less, it doesn't work. I can't think of anybody who's received an answer from that email addy.

So the problem isn't that you were ignored, but rather that they never saw it.

The only reliable way to get into contact with the site is to send a PM through the forum to Laurel ( or if it's directly related to site nuts-n-bolts function, Manu )

My LST3K series is entirely working with other people's stories, so I developed a pattern immediately of including a link to the permission ( if it was present on the forum ) or detailing the permission from email/IM/etc. in the "notes" section. That prevented any speed bump rejections on all of those.

Did you mention anywhere that it was based off the original story? If so, did you mention the input and approval from the original author? If that was present in an author's note/forward/afterward/whatever, then it's probably a matter of speed scanning. Lit approves around 70 stories a day, so Laurel has to make some snap decisions. If she missed the part where you mention already having permission, that could have caused the rejection.

Using the "notes" section of the submission form is the best way to cover anything like this ( though you can certainly acknowledge it for readers in the story text as well ) I've used it to point out sections that are role-playing, to prevent incorrect rejections for underage characters. I use it on every LST3K to prevent copyright rejections, and grammar rejections ( many times, poor grammar is part of what I'm spoofing)

When you put something in the "notes" section, it gets special scrutiny, and can often eliminate the potential for snap-decision rejections that shouldn't really happen.

 

[sr71plt]

It's not a copyright issue to begin with. It's a trademark issue. Characters can't be copyrighted; only linked words can be copyrighted. Characters can be trademarked. That doesn't help your dilemma, of course. But Lit. obviously hasn't even found the boat on this.

And Dark's right. They don't answer much of anything except by Private Mesages (PMs) (See upper right edge of this screen). They don't really have time to check everywhere, but along with adding new features to the Web site, they really should clean up the ones they already have. If they aren't going to check the "Contact" buttons or e-mail, they should just delete those as possibilities and be clear about how to actually contact them.

 

[fuckwaffle]

maybe you should have come here first, after receiving the author's permission, and asked the knowledgeable the best way to handle the submission. just saying.

oh, it's been said on this forum many times, the only way to contact the powers that be is by PM.

 

[sr71plt]

maybe you should have come here first, after receiving the author's permission, and asked the knowledgeable the best way to handle the submission. just saying.

oh, it's been said on this forum many times, the only way to contact the powers that be is by PM.

Not the OPs fault in any way, I don't think. He used the contact process indicated. There's no reason he should have thought he'd have to ask in the forum first (or ever).

 

[Darkniciad]

Between having a FAQ and the "contact" links everywhere, one would naturally assume that those resources should be the primary source of contacting the website or getting questions answered. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Anybody up for going through the FAQ to point out things that aren't real clear or ommissions that should really be there? I'd be willing to start the thread, create appropriate links, and dig through to find a few such points myself, but there's no point if it's just going to get ignored and fall off the first page before the day's over.

If anybody's up for trying to make things easier for the newbies and those of us who answer their questions when the available resources fail, sing out. If nobody else wants to bother, I'll just continue passing those things along piecemeal whenever I come across one.

 

[Laurel]

But at least let me show that I acted properly and justly before accusing me of stealing someone else's work.

Hi all,

For the record, no one was accused of stealing anyone's work. The exact wording of the rejection was:

Hi there! To avoid possible problems, I wanted to see if you'd talked to dweaver999 about this derivative work. In the past, we've had authors post stories based on other Lit author's work. Sometimes the original author is cool with it, but sometimes the original author gets very publicly upset. You may want to contact the dweaver999 about this before publishing to avoid any potential issue. Thanks, and Happy New Year!

If you have indeed discussed this with dweaver999, then simply resubmit the story with a note in the NOTES field stating that you've discussed this dweaver999 and he's fine with it.

Hope this clears things up. If you - or anyone else - have any further questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[fuckwaffle]

Hi all,

For the record, no one was accused of stealing anyone's work. The exact wording of the rejection was:



If you have indeed discussed this with dweaver999, then simply resubmit the story with a note in the NOTES field stating that you've discussed this dweaver999 and he's fine with it.

Hope this clears things up. If you - or anyone else - have any further questions, feel free to PM me.

from out wonderful editor in chief laurel...nice rant though estragon, nice rant.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If you have indeed discussed this with dweaver999, then simply resubmit the story with a note in the NOTES field stating that you've discussed this dweaver999 and he's fine with it.

Aha! The missing ingredient! Now the soufflè can soufle.

 

[estragon]

Laurel, please excuse my over-reaction. I put my guts and my soul, such as they are, into this story, which is my homage to the Grand Master dweaver999. I would never ever dream of taking what someone else created and using that without having explicitly obtained written permission for the exact use I made.

If you wish, I will forward to you the entire e-mail correspondence with dweaver999. I hesitate to suggest you contact dweaver999 directly, because I do not wish to involve that great author in any further discussion; I have already imposed upon his generosity far too much.

Moreover, I wish to thank all who responded for their gracious replies. I withdraw my ill-tempered remark about snarky responses. I should have known better.

Happy New Year to all! In Peace, signed estragon

 

[sr71plt]

Interesting, though, that all one has to do is claim they have the original author's permission and that's good enough for this Web site. I would think that anyone prepared to steal the work of another would be just as prepared to lie and say they have permission to do so. (This is a comment on the policy, not the current example.)

 

[Stella_Omega]

Laurel, please excuse my over-reaction. I put my guts and my soul, such as they are, into this story, which is my homage to the Grand Master dweaver999. I would never ever dream of taking what someone else created and using that without having explicitly obtained written permission for the exact use I made.

If you wish, I will forward to you the entire e-mail correspondence with dweaver999. I hesitate to suggest you contact dweaver999 directly, because I do not wish to involve that great author in any further discussion; I have already imposed upon his generosity far too much.

Moreover, I wish to thank all who responded for their gracious replies. I withdraw my ill-tempered remark about snarky responses. I should have known better.

Happy New Year to all! In Peace, signed estragon

All you have to do is place a note in the notes section. She didn't tell you that the first time, but now that she has-- follow the directions.

 

[estragon]

vent-and-rant ended

To sr71plt, those blackbirds were some aircraft! Good going. Yes, merely claiming permission when in fact one has not is adding fraud to theft. That criminals will do so, see the warnings about habitual plagiarists and thieves elsewhere in this forum. I however will not steal or lie.

to stella: I have resubmitted with the note. I apologize for my ignorantly trusting the "contact us" link.

To all: I really want to end this thread, which is better suited to a therapy session than to an authors' discussion. I am grateful to all who commented, and wish all a very happy New Year. In Peace, estragon

 

[Stella_Omega]

You should not have to apologise for trusting a link which does not work-- that would be the site owners apology for leaving it there.

 

[estragon]

I said I wanted to end this thread, as my ill-considered rant appears more childish and embarrassing each time I read it. But now that my story has been published on Literotica, I must again publicly thank dweaver999 for his generosity and kindliness. Not only is dweaver999 a great author, but also a great human being. I ask him to accept my grateful homage.