Story Discussion 12/26: The Times That Lie In Between

[Lalochezia]

Chapter 1:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=505449

Chapter 2:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=505869

Chapter 3:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=506662


Obviously all three chapters are rather long, so please feel free to just critique one or two if you would like. But all three are there, if you are interested.

 

[Lalochezia]

Question 1) Are the characters believable?

Question 2) Are the actions of the characters relatively understandable, or are they totally unrealistic? (particularly chapter 3)

Question 3) What do you think of the humor? Not really humorous? Distracting? Or does it work well with the story?

Question 4) I am relatively worried that the sex is the weakest part of this story. Since this is an erotica site, this strikes me as...bad. Do you get the same impression? Could the story do without the sex?


That's all I had to ask. I suppose I will leave any other comment or criticism you would like to make up to you. It's always the questions that are unasked who's answers most easily allude us.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Question 1) Are the characters believable?

Question 2) Are the actions of the characters relatively understandable, or are they totally unrealistic? (particularly chapter 3)

Question 3) What do you think of the humor? Not really humorous? Distracting? Or does it work well with the story?

Question 4) I am relatively worried that the sex is the weakest part of this story. Since this is an erotica site, this strikes me as...bad. Do you get the same impression? Could the story do without the sex?


That's all I had to ask. I suppose I will leave any other comment or criticism you would like to make up to you. It's always the questions that are unasked who's answers most easily allude us.

Lalochezia,

Before I address your specific questions, I would like to first make a few general observations. Due to time constraints, it will take multiple posts for me to completely answer your questions.

The first thing I want to say is congratulations on posting a complete story. I cannot emphasize enough how satisfying it is to read a story with a beginning, a middle, and an end. Most of what I read here lacks one or another of those elements.

That being said, your story would be better if you used an editor. There are paragraphs in each chapter that are comprised of one sentence fragment after another, each separated by a period. These fragments generally lack a verb or a subject. Sometimes both are missing. It felt as though James T. Kirk were the narrator. I usually found those paragraphs immediately following the sex scenes, where you were most likely trying to create a feeling of breathless, disjointed, post-coital recovery. You can get away with sentences like that in dialogue, but not in the narrative.

Finally, I think you did the story a disservice by placing it in Erotic Couplings. This was a difficult story to categorize, but it probably should have been in either BDSM or Romance. In reality, it is a tragedy, but there is no category for that.

I would also add that your title makes no sense to me, and the tag lines were rather obscure. As a result, this story is generating far fewer views than it deserves (if the view counts at the end of each chapter are accurate).

I will address your specific questions in a subsequent post.

 

[PacoFear]

Hi Lalo,

A response to soffi's post before touching on your questions and sharing some of my own thoughts...

I agree with soflabb insofar as you've done a marvelous job, Lalo, of serving up a complete story with distinct characters and an arc. No small feat. Serious kudos to you.

Where soflabb and I part company is here:

That being said, your story would be better if you used an editor. There are paragraphs in each chapter that are comprised of one sentence fragment after another, each separated by a period. These fragments generally lack a verb or a subject. Sometimes both are missing. It felt as though James T. Kirk were the narrator. I usually found those paragraphs immediately following the sex scenes, where you were most likely trying to create a feeling of breathless, disjointed, post-coital recovery. You can get away with sentences like that in dialogue, but not in the narrative.

For clarity, I think this is an example of what soflabb was commenting on:

When he was done with her, Albert pulled out and left her there on the bed. Naked ass in the air. Used pussy pulsing helplessly as a pool of her juices spread beneath it. Eyes wide and glassy. Mouth open slightly, drooling. Mind blank. Tess was nothing, and she was everything.

This is a matter of style for me. As a writer, once you've demonstrated to me (as your reader) that you can use the language properly, I'm willing to give you the artistic license to bend the grammatical rules for effect because I can tell you're doing it on purpose. I thought you put your fragments to good use. Your usage may be a little different from the norm though. By that I mean that the breathless, fragmented descriptions you're deploying are more often delivered from the first person POV. Tess, if she were narrating this tale, probably would/should be awestruck by what Albert did to her in the preceding paragraphs and consequently describe her post-coital self this way. It's a little different giving us these descriptions from third person, but I thought it was interesting.

Finally, I think you did the story a disservice by placing it in Erotic Couplings. This was a difficult story to categorize, but it probably should have been in either BDSM or Romance. In reality, it is a tragedy, but their is no category for that.

This would be a tough story to categorize and you no doubt struggled. EC is the catch-all category. The story, overall, struck me also Romance too, although the sex is what I would call "control" -- putting it in a strange little territory between D/s and non-consent/reluctance. The BDSM readers are an odd lot and I've never really gotten a handle on their preferences. If you'd posted this there it might have gone poorly because you've painted the D as a homicidal/suicidal freak by the end. They might be offended. Likewise, I'm not so sure the Romance folks would have endured the rough sex to get to the mushy ending. So I think you did the right thing by slipping this into the mixed bag of Erotic Coupling.

I would also add that your title makes no sense to me, and the tag lines were rather obscure. As a result, this story is generating far fewer views than it deserves (if the view counts at the end of each chapter are accurate).

I'm with soffie here. You made a common newb miscalculation: underestimating the power of the title and description. S'ok, I did the same thing at the start. Truth is, I don't think people read the New Stories list on Lit slowly enough and with a careful enough eye to see your title/description and get intrigued by what it means. You can get away with a vague title, but your description it really needs to hint at the sort of kink your story contains in order to draw in your target audience and to steer away the folks that won't enjoy it and might vote poorly as a result.

Hope this helps,

-PF

 

[PacoFear]

Question 1) Are the characters believable?

I thought so. From your character descriptions, I pictured Tess as a female version of Brian O'Halloran, the listless but conscientious lead from the film Clerks. That put Neil at the Jeff Anderson slacker sidekick role, though yours was a bit more cerebral. Alicia and her brother Cory were the comic relief akin to what was provided by Jason Mewes (Jay) and Kevin Smith (Silent Bob).

Albert? Most decidedly the psycho-hubby from Sleeping with the Enemy.

Question 2) Are the actions of the characters relatively understandable, or are they totally unrealistic? (particularly chapter 3)

Spoiler Alert
I thought the characters gelled rather well. Albert's "turn" was sufficiently foreshadowed. Likewise, Tess's decision to break it off and go her own way. His "ending" seemed fitting too. The way Neil demonstrated his feelings at the end was imaginative and tender.

Question 3) What do you think of the humor? Not really humorous? Distracting? Or does it work well with the story?

You've got a solid wit and the amount of chuckles a reader is looking for will vary. For me, it was 90% good. The only time humor runs afoul for me is when it feels like it's humor only for humor's sake and doesn't move the story along. It can become a pacing issue. On that point, I didn't think Cory or his movie quotes were needed. But, hey, somebody else might get a kick out of them. Tell you this, though, I was sufficiently curious to look up the line from Wicker Man. That says something, I guess.

Question 4) I am relatively worried that the sex is the weakest part of this story. Since this is an erotica site, this strikes me as...bad. Do you get the same impression? Could the story do without the sex?

I don't think the story could have done without the sex because it's through the sex that we see Albert's true colors begin to show. In that sense, you've done something marvelous -- used your smut to advance your story. Too often, the sex is a detour from a storyline, a pornographic scooby snack tossed to the Lit readers to keep them along for the ride.

That said, to be honest, yep, your sex was the weakest part for me. The same way the first few paragraphs can make or break your story, the first few paragraphs of sex can make or break the nooky. Yours just didn’t grab me:

Albert held her there, one arm wrapped tightly around her stomach, the other hidden under her clothes, deftly stroking her swollen clit. Tess could feel his hard cock pressed tightly against her pert ass as he held her. She could feel his fingers working at her clit, numbing her mind. He just used the tip of one finger. He gently stroked up and down. Up and down. Up and down. Each time brushing the tip of her sensitive clit. When he did she would tremble and groan. It was maddening, each stroke of his finger sending Tess further and further into the primal depths of animal lust. Sensation was all that mattered in this forgotten part of her brain.

Everybody, I mean everybody has opinions on this sort of thing and I’m no different. You ran afoul of one of my hang-ups and that’s writing sex in a way that treats a woman’s clit as a cock-substitute, as though it’s thrust out there all on its lonesome and when it’s fiddled with it induces instant joy. This view is often a dead giveaway that the author is male (I checked your bio only to come up blank, cheeky bastard/bitch ). I say that because, sadly, sex for us fellas is too often a sport “me and my cock” engage in, as though we have this separate thing we bring to bed, like a sexual tool. Naturally, some of us presume that women have the same mindset.

Still, you rescued me from iffy sex land with the dialogue that Albert slips into in that first scene when describing how he’s going to love watching Tess dissolve. Good god, Lalo, that was fabulous. If I thought my wife wouldn’t freak out, I’d print the paragraph below on a t-shirt and wear it around the house every Sunday:

"You're intelligent. You're funny. You have strong character and well-formed opinions. You have a quick mind and a good sense of yourself." Albert smiled as he wiped the corner of her mouth again. "And I'm going to watch all of that drain away. I'm going to watch as your eyes roll back in your head. I'm going to watch as you lose yourself. I'm going to watch as you twitch and beg and drool. I'm going to smile down at you as your eyes stare up at me with that empty look and your hungry little cunt clenches my cock. I'm going to watch all of that intelligence drain away as you become a sweaty, helpless, carnal thing impaled on me."

An engaging “control” sex scene can be hard to write because, by definition, one character is being passive. Tess’s job is to whimper and moan. Trouble is, passive characters are kind of boring to read. For me anyway. You’re hamstrung too inasmuch as your narration is third person and not all that close, i.e., you don’t have the luxury of rattling off what’s going through Tess’s head. You might try reaching around that problem a bit by describing what her “eyes say” or “the movement of her hips told him.” Just a thought.

That's all I had to ask. I suppose I will leave any other comment or criticism you would like to make up to you. It's always the questions that are unasked who's answers most easily allude us.

My general comment is that you’ve got some parts that, on my read, could use some tightening up. For example, your first paragraph:

The Old West had saloons. Medieval Europe had taverns. The Serengeti had watering holes. South Main Street had Starbucks. Young professionals and college students came to quench their thirst, staying in herds to avoid predators. Tucked in between two of these caffeine dens was a dirty little shop with a creaky sign that read simply, "P&J's Games, Cards, and Comics."

Bear with me, Lalo, because I’m going to pick a bit. Your fifth sentence about young professionals didn’t make sense to me. I understand that you’re trying to tie Starbucks back to the Serengiti water holes but unless I’m missing something young professionals and college students don’t have predators. The metaphor fell apart for me. Worse, the very next sentence mixed the metaphor. First Starbucks was a watering hole and now it’s a den? And then I find out that these observations are only partly relevant because we’re not really going to be talking about Starbucks; we’re interested in a comic book store nearby. Oi.

The impression this first paragraph left me with wasn’t a good one. To be honest, I read it as a warning that I was in for a lot of half-sensical cleverness.

Your second paragraph fared slightly better but had the same sort of trouble on my read:

Inside Tess gestured at the super hero on the cover of the comic in the customer's hand. "He's called the Conscientious Objector. He has an unnatural amount of patience which he got when an irradiated high school guidance counselor bit him on the leg. He fights crime by staying out of it and letting the authorities do their job."

First off, the notion of a Conscientious Objector comic book hero is funny as all hell. It’s the kind of thing that Ben Edlund might have conjured for The Tick, a personal fave. But, more picking, Lalo, a conscientious objector doesn’t stand aside because he’s patient. He stands aside because he objects to violence on moral grounds. Think Quaker or Almish or Ghandi. And even if it made sense that the root the Objector’s power were patience, why a high school guidance counselor? I’m sure they vary the world around, but the ones in my school system were known most for their indifference. Their job was to talk students into going to college to improve the college-bound statistics for the high school. If a student was already going, there wasn’t much need for conversation. So, for patience, why not a nun? Or a social worker?

Let me back up a sec. It’s very likely that three-quarters of the folks who are reading your post aren’t looking that hard at this stuff. I'd guess 10%, tops, might be reading it, chuckling at first, then saying “uh, wait, that didn't entirely make sense.”

Don’t fret too much, Lalo. The fact that we’re having discussions like this is proof of the impressive effort you’ve put together. The fact that it’s a first post makes it downright applause worthy.

I look forward to seeing what the other folks have to say and to reading your next work.

Cheers,

-PF

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Question 1) Are the characters believable?

Absolutely. Starting with your minor characters, Alicia and Neil completely worked for me. I would have lilked to have seen more of those two characters in the story. Cory worked for me, although I found him somewhat less believable. His schtick came off as something that could be seen in a movie, but not necessarily in real life. I guess that I am a little on the fence about Cory. I liked him, but he seemed to be less believable than the other two.

Tess worked for me also. I have known brilliant people who, for one reason or another, were directionless at some point in their lives. I don't know that I understood all of the choices she made in the story, but I could picture her in the positions where those choices were presented.

Albert was a different story. I did not like him from the moment of his first appearance. I thought of him as a flaming asshole, and he did not disappoint. Did I find him believable? Yes, up until the point where he pulled the gun. That might have been a stretch, but you did a very good job of setting everything up so that it was, indeed, consistent with his character. You were meticulous in planting the seeds of the story that eventually blossomed into the final confrontation. Overall, a very good effort.

Question 2) Are the actions of the characters relatively understandable, or are they totally unrealistic? (particularly chapter 3)

For the most part, yes. As I indicated above, I did have a few problems. Regarding Tess, my biggest issue is with her putting on the collar in the first place. I don't know that you sufficiently developed her as a submissive by that point to accept a collar. I have a hard time accepting the alternative, that she did it just because she was horny. I don't read a lot of BDSM stories, but in most the sub is little more than a compliant piece of flesh. If that was Tess, I didn't see her getting to that point. If she were conflicted in her role as sub, then you have a more interesting story and that aspect should have been expressed a little more fully.

With respect to Albert, well, I already mentioned my issue with him. The fact of the matter is that on occasion people do blow up and take guns into their lover's work places when relationships end. So I cannot say his actions were unrealistic. And, as I already mentioned, you dropped enough hints in the story that some would have seen it coming. I think that maybe one instance of his anger in chapter one would have made his meltdown in chapter three more plausible for me.

Question 3) What do you think of the humor? Not really humorous? Distracting? Or does it work well with the story?

I loved the humor. Just enough to keep me interested without becoming a distraction.

Question 4) I am relatively worried that the sex is the weakest part of this story. Since this is an erotica site, this strikes me as...bad. Do you get the same impression? Could the story do without the sex?

I agree with Paco on these points. The sex was central to the story, and yet it was the weakest part of the story.

I found the sex necessary for two reasons. One, Albert revealed his character through the sex scenes. Two, it seemed to be the only reason that Tess was attracted to him.

Writing better sex scenes is something that you can easily improve upon. There are two directions you can go: the "less is more" style of description, or the "full porno" style. Right now, you seem to be somewhere in the middle of the two. The imprecise style is one problem; the other is repetitive language. Neither of these problems is fatal to your story, and both are problems that you can fix with practice.

That's all I had to ask. I suppose I will leave any other comment or criticism you would like to make up to you. It's always the questions that are unasked who's answers most easily allude us.

My other comments were mentioned in my earlier post. I will respond to paco when I get another chance to write.

 

[Pure]

some comments

thanks for posting your story. it IS a story, which is nice, and shows lots of work. mostly good work.

right now i have just a little time, so excuse the narrow focus, but it is something you asked about. maybe more another day.

i'm in agreement with sofla, as to editing, but it could be by you. the sex scene, as you implied, is perhaps the weakest, esp. its non-dialogue--descriptive--parts. in a word, overembellished. adjectives piled on before nouns, "-ly" adverbs tossed in. I have single asterisked the dubious adjectives and double asterisked the dubious adverbs. in many cases they are predictable, hence dispensable (deletable); occasionally replace with something fresh. prune your prose, man. as sofla said, 'less is more.'

there are *parts* i rather liked, and i haven't reproduced them; as noted by sofla, Albert's 'what i want' speech is nice and fresh.

===

Albert held her there, one arm wrapped tightly around her stomach, the other hidden under her clothes, deftly stroking her swollen clit. Tess could feel his *hard cock pressed tightly against her *pert ass as he held her. She could feel his fingers working at her clit, numbing her mind. He just used the tip of one finger. He gently stroked up and down. Up and down. Up and down. Each time brushing the tip of her *sensitive clit. When he did she would tremble and groan. It was maddening, each stroke of his finger sending Tess further and further into the *primal depths of *animal lust. Sensation was all that mattered in this forgotten part of her brain.

Tess squirmed in his arms. She wanted more. She wanted Albert to rip her clothes off and finger her violently. She wanted to be fucked. She wanted to be filled. She needed it. She craved it. Her body screamed for it. But all she got was the slow, methodical, torturous stroking. Each time his finger tip passed over her clit Tess arched her hips, **desperately trying to get more contact, but Albert's hand would slip away. And then it would be back, making her squirm and groan and jerk. But she couldn't cum. He wouldn't let her.[this para is much better]

Tess's mouth opened slightly. Her eyes glazed over. A tiny drop of saliva ran down the corner of her mouth as her body squirmed helplessly. Her knees trembled and managed to stay up only with Albert's arm circling her.

Albert grinned and pressed his *growing erection harder against her *helpless body as he gently reached up with the arm that held her and wiped the moisture from the corner of her mouth. "Do you know what makes you so much fun?"

Tess groaned and squirmed.

[albert says what he wants-- good]]

Tess lay there helpless, trembling, squirming. Her *hungry cunt was drooling down her thighs, ripe to be fucked. Dressed completely except that her pants were shoved around her knees, hindering her movement. Her ass in the air ready, waiting.

She hadn't planned on letting him fuck her tonight, but she needed it so badly. **Desperately. She could hardly think, hardly breath. Before she had time to get her brain working again, Albert had a condom on. With one swift motion he was inside of her, and Tess became nothing. [good]

Her mind went blank as her body responded **obediently to his. Her hips bucked, her body trembled, her *swollen, *unshaven cunt clenched hard on the cock it so **desperately needed. Tess screamed into the pillow as Albert grabbed her hips and fucked. He pumped hard and fast. Unmerciful, unrelenting. Tess's face was slammed into the pillow again and again, knocking her glasses from her face. The sounds of *sweaty flesh pounding together filled the room and the smell of *excited pussy hung thick in the air.
Albert gripped her so hard bruises began to form as his *hard cock filled her and fucked her over and over. With a groan he thrust one more time and came deep inside of Tess's *helpless body. She squirmed beneath him, pinned down by his weight as her *hungry little cunt sucked him into her *wet folds.

 

[Lalochezia]

Thanks to all three of you for such great criticism and critique!

I'm not entirely sure where to start my reply, so I suppose I'll just start babbling.

My major concern for this story, at the moment, is the sex. As all of you noted, it is definitely the weakest part of the story, but it's also central to the character development and explanation of why Tess is with a raging asshole.

I should probably give a bit of background on this story. I wrote it just over a year ago, with the intention of posting it to lit. I got an editor, on this site, who gave me some very good advice (without it I'm sure you guys would have had many more negative things to say) but, unfortunately, while I was still editing in some of his advice and tweaking it (I'm sure he mentioned the problems with the sex) things started cropping up in real life and I put this on the back burner and basically forgot about it. Skip to a year later poking around my computer I found it and figured, "What the hell? I don't care if it's done, I'll throw it up and see what happens or nothing will be done with it." So, I did. But rereading it after all that time really made the sex scenes stand out. I'm not happy at all with them. To the point that I wonder if I should pull them and perhaps simply develop the characters with traditional dialogue, which I am better at writing. I would keep the sex in a vague, fade to black sort of way and probably keep some of the dialogue that went with it to help explain the attraction. Basically, I'm wondering if this story belongs on lit at all, and if I can bring it to an entirely different direction. Or, the other possibility, clean up the sex and leave it as is. Perhaps I'll try both? Yes, I think I will do both. Question answered.

I'm glad that nobody has found Albert's severe level of crazy near the end of the story surprising. This was my other main concern, but it seems to have gone over rather well. At least, better than I had expected. As Sofla pointed out, I think I do need to expand on that a bit more near the beginning of the story. But perhaps not as much as I thought.

For the most part, yes. As I indicated above, I did have a few problems. Regarding Tess, my biggest issue is with her putting on the collar in the first place. I don't know that you sufficiently developed her as a submissive by that point to accept a collar. I have a hard time accepting the alternative, that she did it just because she was horny. I don't read a lot of BDSM stories, but in most the sub is little more than a compliant piece of flesh. If that was Tess, I didn't see her getting to that point. If she were conflicted in her role as sub, then you have a more interesting story and that aspect should have been expressed a little more fully.

Tess was most certainly not supposed to be a compliant piece of flesh, and I'm glad that she did not come across that way.

I suppose conflicted would be a better way of putting what I was going for. That transition should have been a combination of things: her being horny, her wanting to please Albert, and also simply her eventual realization that sometimes you just have to let go and see what happens. More than anything, I guess, she's unsure of what to do. And in that indecision latches onto the only solid thing there at the moment: what Albert wants. But I could have done a better job building up to that. I'll work on that, thanks for the in put! I also wanted to conflict it with the next sex scene where she is still --technically-- the submissive, but in which she takes an active role in putting on the collar and the sex in general, which is not submissive at all. Soon after that is when the break up happens. So, once Tess is finally comfortable and confident in her role is when things start to go to hell, because Albert never wanted someone confident or comfortable with themselves. That's what I was going for, anyway.

My general comment is that you’ve got some parts that, on my read, could use some tightening up. For example, your first paragraph:

Oh...yeah.

Looking back, those paragraphs just suck.

Those will be rewritten, entirely.

When I started I think I just had no idea on how to do a good introduction so I just ended up rambling a bit. See the first few paragraphs of this post for another good example of that.

Everybody, I mean everybody has opinions on this sort of thing and I’m no different. You ran afoul of one of my hang-ups and that’s writing sex in a way that treats a woman’s clit as a cock-substitute, as though it’s thrust out there all on its lonesome and when it’s fiddled with it induces instant joy. This view is often a dead giveaway that the author is male (I checked your bio only to come up blank, cheeky bastard/bitch ). I say that because, sadly, sex for us fellas is too often a sport “me and my cock” engage in, as though we have this separate thing we bring to bed, like a sexual tool. Naturally, some of us presume that women have the same mindset.

Good advice.

Do you have an example of clit play done well, if I may ask? (I'm just curious. Looking back, I can see what I did wrong, but unfortunately that doesn't always give a clear view of what would have been right)

i'm in agreement with sofla, as to editing, but it could be by you. the sex scene, as you implied, is perhaps the weakest, esp. its non-dialogue--descriptive--parts. in a word, overembellished. adjectives piled on before nouns, "-ly" adverbs tossed in. I have single asterisked the dubious adjectives and double asterisked the dubious adverbs. in many cases they are predictable, hence dispensable (deletable); occasionally replace with something fresh. prune your prose, man. as sofla said, 'less is more.'

Thanks for this! It will definitely come in handy as I rewrite this story trying to keep the sex scenes.




I'm glad finding a place for this story was as confusing for you guys as for me. I had no idea where to put it. BDSM would make the most sense for the sex but, as PacoFear mentioned, I doubt they would have taken kindly to the dominant being an unapologetic psychopath. Not that I think doms are psychopaths, I just think psychopaths probably aren't all rose petals and sweet nothings. Other than that I had no idea, so...erotic couplings.

The tag lines definitely could have been better. I really just had no idea what to do.

The title I'm a little surprised about. Probably not the most grabbing title for an erotica site, however I thought it was relatively appropriate to the story, which I thought was more important. Does the title come across as out of context or weak, after having read the story? Or was it just not a very good title for erotica?

 

[Pure]

afternote

i have made it to the end, and the story has some nice twists. the story has an element of believability, esp. in the buildup of albert’s assholish, ultimately psycho behavior. i'm not entirely convinced as to his de facto suicide.

i have already written about the sex scenes and now that i've been through all of them, i'd say they are like excessively detailed for the story. it is the old question of how much you wish to seem like a pornographer--if you do, then everything is fine, and there's maybe too much story! if you don't, then the fate of every last bit of goo may not be a topic to be so loving detailed.

i think the general plot is a good one, unformed young woman meeting control freak. i believe one poster mentioned 'sleeping with the enemy.'

my one qualm is about her motives, which you depict as--i'm just guessing-- 80% sexual. as you say repeatedly, she simply becomes [you, the author make it so] an animal under the ministrations of his cock and mouth. of course it makes sense that Albert would have that approach, because it's somewhat of a macho-dominant delusion. it makes less sense that Tess conform to it so totally; this is what you, the author have decided. even the bizarre last 'candle' ritual does not fail to turn her into something both feral and jelly-like. if one wanted reality, some of his more extreme efforts might misfire, at least a little--i.e. put her off--not simply make her 'go feral.'

in effect, the narrator endorses Albert's view, that his cock and technique reduce a woman to blubbering ferality. so this brings up the question, where you, the author stand. i see two main possibilities: 1) your pornographic goal is primary; in that case the 'unfailingly, instantly, ultraresponsive woman whose cunt drools within minutes of encountering the hero's technique, is quite fitting.
this caters to the common male illusion, "get her cunt flowing and twitching and you've got her."

2) your story telling goal is primary, and you've 'seasoned' your story, to put it mildly, with a few pounds of spice. in that case, Tess's repeated reversion to animality is perhaps over done. And further, using this as a motive for accepting a marriage proposal, is also open to question. IOW, mightn't a real, actual woman say to herself,
"yes, i'm fucked ten ways from sunday, and deliciously tortured and degraded in our scenes, and his cock works magic in every orifice, but what's he like overall? what's he have to offer?"

she doesn't seem like 18, but rather older, so one might expect her estimate about marital happiness/fulfillment to be based on more than getting soundly fucked and degraded regularly. in simple terms, "he's a fine Top/Master and wonderful fucker, but do I want *him*-- does he meet other needs beyond the 'animal' ones centred in my pussy?"

it's not all of nothing, of course. the story could have her overwhelmed by passion, i.e. swayed by it, but also have her show awareness of what, beyond a domineering fuck, she's looking for.
here is one idea: stretch things out a bit. you have her bashing heads just after being proposed to. perhaps is there were *several* [ 3+] scenes where the nature of his plans becomes more evident; initially, she has misgivings, but then *finally* she hears "2 kids and stay home with them" and she says to herself "enough, this is turning into a preview of a nightmare."

---
PS. i agree that the placement is tricky. it is, perhaps, a bdsm tale akin to 9 1/2 weeks but the standard rules of the genre do not include 'dom as psycho murder-suicide prone asshole.' so it's more a romance, albeit a misfired one, that's loaded down--perhaps too much-- with lots of hot, detailed sex scenes. of course it's NOT a misfire if she's with the right guy at the end, but that outcome is somewhat unprepared and unelaborated.

 

[Lalochezia]

here is one idea: stretch things out a bit. you have her bashing heads just after being proposed to. perhaps is there were *several* [ 3+] scenes where the nature of his plans becomes more evident; initially, she has misgivings, but then *finally* she hears "2 kids and stay home with them" and she says to herself "enough, this is turning into a preview of a nightmare."

This is a great idea, I think I will use it. Thank you.

I was definitely going for number 2, which is why cutting the sex almost entirely seems very appealing, at this point.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

A few additional thoughts

I was definitely going for number 2, which is why cutting the sex almost entirely seems very appealing, at this point.

Everyone seems to be in agreement that the sex scenes were the weakest part of the story, but in my opinion, amputation is not the answer. My problem was not that they were too detailed or too lengthy. Rather, I felt the language you employed could have been tighterned up a little. Too much of the language was repetitious. That is one of the most difficult things about writing sex scenes, since sex is repetitious. Everything that you do is done mutliple times, and that creates a challenge when writing about sex.

i have made it to the end, and the story has some nice twists. the story has an element of believability, esp. in the buildup of albert’s assholish, ultimately psycho behavior. i'm not entirely convinced as to his de facto suicide.

I felt the same way. The foundation for the climax was laid out over the three chapters, yet it still came as a suprise to me. I had to go back and re-read some parts that I glossed over the first time, and sure enough, all the clues were there. Yet it still felt a little extreme, but aren't we always at least a little surprised by extreme behavior?

i have already written about the sex scenes and now that i've been through all of them, i'd say they are like excessively detailed for the story. it is the old question of how much you wish to seem like a pornographer--if you do, then everything is fine, and there's maybe too much story! if you don't, then the fate of every last bit of goo may not be a topic to be so loving detailed.

I have to disagree with Pure on this point. Albert revealed his assholish personality in sex scenes, and found them crucial to the story. I prefer more detail to less, if it is done well. I felt these scenes could have been done better, not by eliminating detail, but by making the detail more precise. That is a matter of personal taste, however, and my preference is toward the pornographic, rather than the suggestive.

2) your story telling goal is primary, and you've 'seasoned' your story, to put it mildly, with a few pounds of spice. in that case, Tess's repeated reversion to animality is perhaps over done. And further, using this as a motive for accepting a marriage proposal, is also open to question. IOW, mightn't a real, actual woman say to herself,
"yes, i'm fucked ten ways from sunday, and deliciously tortured and degraded in our scenes, and his cock works magic in every orifice, but what's he like overall? what's he have to offer?"

she doesn't seem like 18, but rather older, so one might expect her estimate about marital happiness/fulfillment to be based on more than getting soundly fucked and degraded regularly. in simple terms, "he's a fine Top/Master and wonderful fucker, but do I want *him*-- does he meet other needs beyond the 'animal' ones centred in my pussy?"

These are excellent points, but I am not sure they could have been addressed adequately in a story of this length. I alluded to this same issue when I expressed my reservations about Tess accepting the collar, and this is another expample of the same type of conflict, although elevated to another level. For me, this is the only real weakness in storytelling. It is the difference between giving this story 4 stars as opposed to 5 stars. I needed a little more to accept her decisions, and this is what was lacking for me.

Thanks to all three of you for such great criticism and critique!

Basically, I'm wondering if this story belongs on lit at all, and if I can bring it to an entirely different direction. Or, the other possibility, clean up the sex and leave it as is. Perhaps I'll try both? Yes, I think I will do both. Question answered.

Lalo, you have a fine story, with a few minor flaws. Welcome to Lit., where you are already ahead of 90% of the authors I have read this (last) year. I would not go back and rewrite this story or work on it any more. Rather, I would prefer to see you turn your imagination and skill toward something new.

Looking back, those paragraphs just suck.

Those will be rewritten, entirely.

When I started I think I just had no idea on how to do a good introduction so I just ended up rambling a bit. See the first few paragraphs of this post for another good example of that.

I wouldn't say that they sucked, but rather, they were inappropriate for the story and, more importantly, inappropriate for the voice. If this were a story told in the first person by Tess, or even Neil (especially someone as irreverant as Neil), they would worked much better.

I'm glad finding a place for this story was as confusing for you guys as for me. I had no idea where to put it. BDSM would make the most sense for the sex but, as PacoFear mentioned, I doubt they would have taken kindly to the dominant being an unapologetic psychopath. Not that I think doms are psychopaths, I just think psychopaths probably aren't all rose petals and sweet nothings. Other than that I had no idea, so...erotic couplings.

The tag lines definitely could have been better. I really just had no idea what to do.

The title I'm a little surprised about. Probably not the most grabbing title for an erotica site, however I thought it was relatively appropriate to the story, which I thought was more important. Does the title come across as out of context or weak, after having read the story? Or was it just not a very good title for erotica?

The way I see it, you have four tools to sell your story to readers: your name, the category, the title, and the tag line. Since this was your first story, your name carried no weight at all. The story fell by default into erotic couplings, and I don't think anyone really looks for stories in that category. It is the miscellaneous aisle for all manner of stories that fit nowhere else. That left your title and the tag line. The title is interesting, but not for a piece of erotic fiction. It tells me nothing about the story. A title does not have to be obvious, but it should say something about the story, and frankly, I just didn't get the reference. I expected it to appear as a line in the story somewhere, but that didn't happen. It told me no more about the story when I was finished than it had before I started.

That left the tag lines, which I should add are not part of the story, but are there to help you capture an audience. Next time, spend a little more time thinking of a brief phrase that will get readers to notice you. I learned this lesson the hard way; my lowest viewed story was part four of a five part story that merely said "preparing for the finale." Almost no one has read it.

Still, you rescued me from iffy sex land with the dialogue that Albert slips into in that first scene when describing how he’s going to love watching Tess dissolve. Good god, Lalo, that was fabulous. If I thought my wife wouldn’t freak out, I’d print the paragraph below on a t-shirt and wear it around the house every Sunday:

The paragraph Paco referenced was brilliant. I wish I had written it.

First off, the notion of a Conscientious Objector comic book hero is funny as all hell. It’s the kind of thing that Ben Edlund might have conjured for The Tick, a personal fave. But, more picking, Lalo, a conscientious objector doesn’t stand aside because he’s patient. He stands aside because he objects to violence on moral grounds. Think Quaker or Almish or Ghandi. And even if it made sense that the root the Objector’s power were patience, why a high school guidance counselor? I’m sure they vary the world around, but the ones in my school system were known most for their indifference. Their job was to talk students into going to college to improve the college-bound statistics for the high school. If a student was already going, there wasn’t much need for conversation. So, for patience, why not a nun? Or a social worker?

I collected comics for nearly 30 years, not as an investment but because I loved the medium. I found this concept irreverant and refreshing, but I have to question the originality. It reminds me of a recent episode of South Park, and the emergence of Captain Hindsight. CH arrives at the sight of a disaster and immediately points out everything that should have been done to prevent the disaster. The similarilty is not so much in the execution, but in the utter uselessness of the character as a superhero. In any event, it was funny and completely brought Neil to life for me.

This is a matter of style for me. As a writer, once you've demonstrated to me (as your reader) that you can use the language properly, I'm willing to give you the artistic license to bend the grammatical rules for effect because I can tell you're doing it on purpose. I thought you put your fragments to good use. Your usage may be a little different from the norm though. By that I mean that the breathless, fragmented descriptions you're deploying are more often delivered from the first person POV. Tess, if she were narrating this tale, probably would/should be awestruck by what Albert did to her in the preceding paragraphs and consequently describe her post-coital self this way. It's a little different giving us these descriptions from third person, but I thought it was interesting.

I am going to have to agree to disagree with Paco on this point. If you had used a different point of view, I might have been more receptive to this incomplete sentence structure. But from the third person point of view, it just didn't work for me. It only occurred a few times, so it was not a major problem for me.

Overall, a fine effort and I look forward to reading your next story.

 

[Lalochezia]

I would like to experiment with this story a little more. Develop the characters without the sex. Improve the sex. See how it turns out, I rather like the characters so I just want to see where it goes.

I do, however, want to keep writing new things at the same time, so thank you very much for the encouragement.

As for the first few paragraphs, I suppose I was a little harsh on them. But you are both right, they do not fit the story. I think I was still trying to find the tone at that point, if that makes any sense.

The title line was in there. (you had me worried, I deleted a good page of the end before posting it, and I thought it was lost) But it was the last or second to last paragraph, "Life was in the nights of idly whispered nothings and shared warmth under twisting covers. Life was in the sleepless nights of study and the espresso before a midterm. Life was in the times that lie in between." You're right though, not the best title to attract readers on an erotic site.

I'm really glad you liked most of it!