Intentional vs Accidental shame/humiliation?

[3113]

Greetings, BDSM folk. I need your thoughts and observations for a story and the creation of a character. If you are a Dom/sub who gets turned on by situations of shame/humiliation (or know a couple that leans that way), do you (they) feel the same if the situations are intentional vs. accidental?

Intentional means that the Dom sets up the situation where the sub will be shamed/humiliated (we'll say publicly) as that turns one of both of them on. Publicly meaning whatever is right for the relationship, be it in a dungeon with other like-minded folk or out at a restaurant where the public is unaware that what's happening is deliberate.

Accidental is, well, the usual. Something goes wrong and the sub is humiliated or embarrassed. The Dom is witness to it, but had nothing to do with it, and neither one wanted it to happen.

Would the accidental event make one or both parties feel bad, or, being that it is witnessed by the Dom and experienced by the sub, give one or both parties a similar thrill to what they'd get if the shame/humiliation was intentional and for the purpose of exciting/stimulating? And even if both feel bad at the time, would it stimulate later on remembering it?

Obviously, I can make my character be anyway I like, but I'm asking this question because I'm not sure how I want to make the character. Your answers and thoughts will be very helpful to me in making the character more real and alive. So thank you very much for any thoughts you're willing to offer on this topic.

 

[Primalex]

Greetings, BDSM folk. I need your thoughts and observations for a story and the creation of a character. If you are a Dom/sub who gets turned on by situations of shame/humiliation (or know a couple that leans that way), do you (they) feel the same if the situations are intentional vs. accidental?

No.





~qp~

 

[Stella_Omega]

Only if the shame or humiliation is, accidentally, in the direction the bottom likes it to be, I.E. "You're a slut who can't keep your filthy hands offa my dick."

Which is utterly different from "You let the dog run into the street and it's dead!" or "Don't you know how to order wine properly? Look, the waiters are all laughing at you!"

Well... maybe the waiters laughing would be sexy.

 

[Netzach]

Not the same but I like both for different reasons. The intentional kind feeds my control freak, the less intentional kind lets me get off vicariously on an unpredictable situation from a safe enough distance.

Hey, the shoe fits, I'm perfectly honest...

 

[Emerald_Lilly]

Depending on the relationship and the circumstances, intentional can be a good thing for me. Accidental is not healthy for me in any way.

 

[3113]

Not the same but I like both for different reasons. The intentional kind feeds my control freak, the less intentional kind lets me get off vicariously on an unpredictable situation from a safe enough distance.

Hey, the shoe fits, I'm perfectly honest...

Very much appreciate the honesty! It really helps in getting a realistic idea. Too many people say what they think we all want to hear rather than what is.

 

[Domwoolf]

Intentional vs Accidental

Greetings, BDSM folk. I need your thoughts and observations for a story and the creation of a character. If you are a Dom/sub who gets turned on by situations of shame/humiliation (or know a couple that leans that way), do you (they) feel the same if the situations are intentional vs. accidental?

Intentional is a control issue, accidental is the Dom's fault as he/she is supposed to be in charge and protecting his sub.

 

[CutieMouse]

Intentional is a control issue, accidental is the Dom's fault as he/she is supposed to be in charge and protecting his sub.

True story -

I'm talking with an acquaintance about miscellaneous things, and we get on the subject of pens. Without thinking I say "Yeah... one of the reasons I dated X was because he had a great Mont Blanc..." She gave me the funniest look, and 2 seconds later I realized "Mont Blanc" could easily be seen as a sexual euphemism and blushed furiously.

Now, I'm not in a relationship at the moment, but even if I were how on earth would a Dominant lover control that particular situation [a slightly embarrassing/humiliating moment] and prevent it? And if he couldn't [control the situation and prevent the embarrassment], how is he at fault and how exactly would he have "failed to be in charge and protect his sub"?

As to the OP's question -

If I'm deadly honest with myself, accidental humiliation can be [usually is] just a hot as intentional; just different. I know my mind, and the darker corners enjoy mindfucks of that variety, even if I'm the one doing the accidental mindfucking. LOL (Bonus points of the fun kind if a lover knows this about me, and is intelligent enough to utilize it for our mutual pleasure.)

 

[Netzach]

True story -

I'm talking with an acquaintance about miscellaneous things, and we get on the subject of pens. Without thinking I say "Yeah... one of the reasons I dated X was because he had a great Mont Blanc..." She gave me the funniest look, and 2 seconds later I realized "Mont Blanc" could easily be seen as a sexual euphemism and blushed furiously.

Now, I'm not in a relationship at the moment, but even if I were how on earth would a Dominant lover control that particular situation [a slightly embarrassing/humiliating moment] and prevent it? And if he couldn't [control the situation and prevent the embarrassment], how is he at fault and how exactly would he have "failed to be in charge and protect his sub"?

As to the OP's question -

If I'm deadly honest with myself, accidental humiliation can be [usually is] just a hot as intentional; just different. I know my mind, and the darker corners enjoy mindfucks of that variety, even if I'm the one doing the accidental mindfucking. LOL (Bonus points of the fun kind if a lover knows this about me, and is intelligent enough to utilize it for our mutual pleasure.)

Shit happens, what you *do* about it is where you shine.

Like if you get pulled over because you're fingering her in front of truckers, do you point to her and go "it's all her officer" or are you going to step up?

I'd hate to be so in control that the edgy unpredictable nature of shit happening was always scary/bad.

 

[midwestyankee]

Shit happens, what you *do* about it is where you shine.

Like if you get pulled over because you're fingering her in front of truckers, do you point to her and go "it's all her officer" or are you going to step up?

I'd hate to be so in control that the edgy unpredictable nature of shit happening was always scary/bad.

This.

I find that I get more creative and enjoy the opportunity to improvise when my partner is forced to react to a "Mont Blanc moment" (see, Mouse, Cutie) so I relish situations like that when they occur. At the same time, creating situations that are fraught with the potential for embarrassment - even if they never actually result in any embarrassment or humiliation - is quite satisfying.

Each has its own flavor and I'm something of an omnivore.

 

[3113]

Intentional is a control issue, accidental is the Dom's fault as he/she is supposed to be in charge and protecting his sub.

I don't know quite what you mean by this. As CutieMouse pointed out, what I mean by accidental is that the Dom is, maybe, having a drink over in one corner at a normal, vanilla party, his/her sub is over in the other corner, He/She looks and sees something embarrassing happen to sub via the usual "shit-happens" accident. Like the sub spills a drink on the host's trousers (right across is fly) or hostess' bosom and ends up blushing furiously and stammering apologies as all the guests look over.

Why, exactly, would that be the Dom's fault and how is He/She supposed to protect His/Her sub from such accidents?

 

[3113]

If I'm deadly honest with myself, accidental humiliation can be [usually is] just a hot as intentional; just different.

Many thanks for the honesty--and honestly, I wasn't expecting to get any "yes" answers at all, so I'm finding this interesting.

So, let me ask you this, when you do find it hot--is it hotter if Dom was there to witness? (and, in Dom's case, hotter because it happened to sub?). Or, as Midwestyankee put it, is it an omnivore thing? Any experiencing of it (for sub) and any witnessing it or hearing about it gives one a hot flash?

This brings to mind, by the way, the very stylized and rather silly Art Frahm 50's pin-ups of women accidentally and publicly humiliated because their underwear (magically!) fell down as they boarded the bus or stepped out of a phone booth. There is always a male witness, and they're always blushing and trying to tug at their skirts if they can, though usually they're carrying some bundles and can't.

Likewise, similar pin-ups by other artists of women with skirts flying up in a breeze offering a glimpse of stocking tops and garter belts to the public, sometimes with a wink, but often with a blush.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I can't think of any specific examples, but I'm of the mind that should something accidental happen, I'd be utterly mortified, and not in a sexy frame of mind whatsoever.

 

[YourCaptor]

Greetings, BDSM folk. I need your thoughts and observations for a story and the creation of a character. If you are a Dom/sub who gets turned on by situations of shame/humiliation (or know a couple that leans that way), do you (they) feel the same if the situations are intentional vs. accidental?

Intentional means that the Dom sets up the situation where the sub will be shamed/humiliated (we'll say publicly) as that turns one of both of them on. Publicly meaning whatever is right for the relationship, be it in a dungeon with other like-minded folk or out at a restaurant where the public is unaware that what's happening is deliberate.

Accidental is, well, the usual. Something goes wrong and the sub is humiliated or embarrassed. The Dom is witness to it, but had nothing to do with it, and neither one wanted it to happen.

Would the accidental event make one or both parties feel bad, or, being that it is witnessed by the Dom and experienced by the sub, give one or both parties a similar thrill to what they'd get if the shame/humiliation was intentional and for the purpose of exciting/stimulating? And even if both feel bad at the time, would it stimulate later on remembering it?

Obviously, I can make my character be anyway I like, but I'm asking this question because I'm not sure how I want to make the character. Your answers and thoughts will be very helpful to me in making the character more real and alive. So thank you very much for any thoughts you're willing to offer on this topic.

I found it's most powerful when she did something accidentally and then I intentionally drew attention to it. You could see the pang on her face and the red smile would soon follow.

 

[CutieMouse]

Many thanks for the honesty--and honestly, I wasn't expecting to get any "yes" answers at all, so I'm finding this interesting.

So, let me ask you this, when you do find it hot--is it hotter if Dom was there to witness? (and, in Dom's case, hotter because it happened to sub?). Or, as Midwestyankee put it, is it an omnivore thing? Any experiencing of it (for sub) and any witnessing it or hearing about it gives one a hot flash?

This brings to mind, by the way, the very stylized and rather silly Art Frahm 50's pin-ups of women accidentally and publicly humiliated because their underwear (magically!) fell down as they boarded the bus or stepped out of a phone booth. There is always a male witness, and they're always blushing and trying to tug at their skirts if they can, though usually they're carrying some bundles and can't.

Likewise, similar pin-ups by other artists of women with skirts flying up in a breeze offering a glimpse of stocking tops and garter belts to the public, sometimes with a wink, but often with a blush.

Hmmm... if a lover is around who understands that part of my odd little mind, yes I suppose you could say the visceral reaction is a bit stronger. However, given my odd little mind (and how annoyingly single and celibate I tend to be these days LOL), I'm just as capable of laughing to myself and filing the incident away to utilize at a later date - goofy little stories like the Mont Blanc incident can sometimes be good tools to introduce new lovers to my mind.

 

[Domwoolf]

fault

True story -

I'm talking with an acquaintance about miscellaneous things, and we get on the subject of pens. Without thinking I say "Yeah... one of the reasons I dated X was because he had a great Mont Blanc..." She gave me the funniest look, and 2 seconds later I realized "Mont Blanc" could easily be seen as a sexual euphemism and blushed furiously.

Now, I'm not in a relationship at the moment, but even if I were how on earth would a Dominant lover control that particular situation [a slightly embarrassing/humiliating moment] and prevent it? And if he couldn't [control the situation and prevent the embarrassment], how is he at fault and how exactly would he have "failed to be in charge and protect his sub"?


No one can be in charge 24/7. However the Dom would be at fault if he/she did not correct his submissive’s error and used the faux pas as a teaching moment. In this case it is not a matter of protecting the submissive but one of correcting and teaching the submissive to think before she speaks, thus turning an embarrassing moment into a lesson.

 

[CutieMouse]

No one can be in charge 24/7. However the Dom would be at fault if he/she did not correct his submissive’s error and used the faux pas as a teaching moment. In this case it is not a matter of protecting the submissive but one of correcting and teaching the submissive to think before she speaks, thus turning an embarrassing moment into a lesson.

Wow.

For the record, my comments re: the Mont Blanc pen were literal - I noticed the man used a Mont Blanc on our first date, commented on it, we started discussing literature/writing, and I ended up dating him for a while. The person I was talking to made the leap from "Mont Blanc" to "penis". She raised an eyebrow, I realized it could be viewed as a euphemism and I blushed. BTW, I'm the sort of person who blushes easily. Hell, a man can stare at me too intensely and I'll blush. LOL

I'm curious in that situation, how I was supposed to "think before I speak" or somehow prevent the direction the conversation went?

Odd little random slips of the tongue are part of who I am. "Correcting" or "teaching" me to no longer make those random (often unintentionally) humorous comments would result in removing a part of my personality that I [my friends, my children, my former lovers] happen to enjoy.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

No one can be in charge 24/7. However the Dom would be at fault if he/she did not correct his submissive’s error and used the faux pas as a teaching moment. In this case it is not a matter of protecting the submissive but one of correcting and teaching the submissive to think before she speaks, thus turning an embarrassing moment into a lesson.

Ouch.

That really smacks of micro management, and makes me feel bad. If every single word I said was policed, and every 'unsuitable' comment used as a 'lesson' I'd be feeling like nothing I said or did would be good enough, and I'd either get beaten down into a meek automaton, or there'd be a fight.

And what sort of Dom wants to find fault in someone being human?

 

[SoulWeaver]

Ouch.

That really smacks of micro management, and makes me feel bad. If every single word I said was policed, and every 'unsuitable' comment used as a 'lesson' I'd be feeling like nothing I said or did would be good enough, and I'd either get beaten down into a meek automaton, or there'd be a fight.

And what sort of Dom wants to find fault in someone being human?

Just browsing the thread, very interesting points.

But this struck a chord. I've been on the end of a sub having this problem with me. Everything I said was taken literally or had a hidden meaning from her past. Word micro management is as sucky in these situations as it is in real life.

Just tiring.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Just browsing the thread, very interesting points.

But this struck a chord. I've been on the end of a sub having this problem with me. Everything I said was taken literally or had a hidden meaning from her past. Word micro management is as sucky in these situations as it is in real life.

Just tiring.

I fully recognise that for some people/couples, micro management would and does work well and make them happy. I imagine it would indeed be Very Hard Work, but they'd thrive on it.

I just know it's not for me, and not for the person I'm in a relationship with.

 

[seela]

For me the enjoyment I get from accidental humiliation comes after the thing has already happened. When I'm in a situation that's humiliating for me, I really do feel truly and well humiliated and don't get a lot of enjoyment out of it per se, unless the situation lasts long enough for me to have time to indulge in it. But almost certainly later, when I'm thinking back to what happened, I get all kinds of hot and bothered.

The same is true for intentional humiliation at times, but if it's clear from the get go that he's in control of the situation, I find it easier to let go and enjoy the ride. Then again, the things we engage in humiliationwise, are rarely situations, where he could be 100% in control. There's always that random factor, that neither of us knows about. Things unravel in pretty magnificent ways sometimes and it thrills me in a totally different way than the idea of him being completely in control of everything.

Having my nose rubbed in the mistakes I've done can be hot, too. But it's not really used as a teaching tool for us and in no way is he to blame for my fuck ups.

 

[Ravenwind]

For me, it's highly situational. Sometimes I'll go running off crying like a little schoolgirl, while others I'll get really turned on, while still others I'll do both (be horrified at first, but in hindsight, enjoy it). Doesn't matter whether it's accidental or intentional, but rather, "what happened, who it happened around, and why it happened". I'm still trying to figure out some kind of predictable pattern to what I think is hot, and what shatters my ego.

 

[Domwoolf]

Apologies

Ouch.

That really smacks of micro management, and makes me feel bad. If every single word I said was policed, and every 'unsuitable' comment used as a 'lesson' I'd be feeling like nothing I said or did would be good enough, and I'd either get beaten down into a meek automaton, or there'd be a fight.

And what sort of Dom wants to find fault in someone being human?

It seems as if I didn't make myself clear which is always a problem when one is typeing in short bursts rather than discussing a concept at length. I didn't mean to be seen as micro managing but rather pointing out that any situation can be used as a teaching/lesson point.

 

[Netzach]

True story -

I'm talking with an acquaintance about miscellaneous things, and we get on the subject of pens. Without thinking I say "Yeah... one of the reasons I dated X was because he had a great Mont Blanc..." She gave me the funniest look, and 2 seconds later I realized "Mont Blanc" could easily be seen as a sexual euphemism and blushed furiously.

Now, I'm not in a relationship at the moment, but even if I were how on earth would a Dominant lover control that particular situation [a slightly embarrassing/humiliating moment] and prevent it? And if he couldn't [control the situation and prevent the embarrassment], how is he at fault and how exactly would he have "failed to be in charge and protect his sub"?


No one can be in charge 24/7. However the Dom would be at fault if he/she did not correct his submissive’s error and used the faux pas as a teaching moment. In this case it is not a matter of protecting the submissive but one of correcting and teaching the submissive to think before she speaks, thus turning an embarrassing moment into a lesson.

My God the fun must never end.

 

[Netzach]

Many thanks for the honesty--and honestly, I wasn't expecting to get any "yes" answers at all, so I'm finding this interesting.

So, let me ask you this, when you do find it hot--is it hotter if Dom was there to witness? (and, in Dom's case, hotter because it happened to sub?). Or, as Midwestyankee put it, is it an omnivore thing? Any experiencing of it (for sub) and any witnessing it or hearing about it gives one a hot flash?

This brings to mind, by the way, the very stylized and rather silly Art Frahm 50's pin-ups of women accidentally and publicly humiliated because their underwear (magically!) fell down as they boarded the bus or stepped out of a phone booth. There is always a male witness, and they're always blushing and trying to tug at their skirts if they can, though usually they're carrying some bundles and can't.

Likewise, similar pin-ups by other artists of women with skirts flying up in a breeze offering a glimpse of stocking tops and garter belts to the public, sometimes with a wink, but often with a blush.

Art was kinda freaky in his pursuit of the motif. I've heard that panties tended to do that a lot more often till elastic got better, but it still seems like such a stretch.