As I'm reading, I find I do not understand something.

[bhndblueyes88]

I do not understand why people encourage punishments that are invitations to infectious disease, general illness, or long term physical damage. I'm sure part of my lack of understanding stems from learning so much about bacteria and disease in my courses and thus developing a degree of hyper-awareness, but it just does not make sense to me.

If you care for someone (emotionally and/or as a caretaker), why would you put them in that situation, regardless of your power dynamic?

It does not seem to be a smart thing to do and I do not understand.

 

[CutieMouse]

Example, please?

I don't understand why people punish, period. Punishment dynamics [generally] don't work; communication and personal responsibility [generally] does.

 

[BiBunny]

I do not understand why people encourage punishments that are invitations to infectious disease, general illness, or long term physical damage. I'm sure part of my lack of understanding stems from learning so much about bacteria and disease in my courses and thus developing a degree of hyper-awareness, but it just does not make sense to me.

If you care for someone (emotionally and/or as a caretaker), why would you put them in that situation, regardless of your power dynamic?

It does not seem to be a smart thing to do and I do not understand.

Because people are dumbfucks, mostly. I wish I had a more eloquent answer for you, LOL.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Some possible answers;

1) ignorance

2) it's just fantasy talk

3) they've done it before with no ill effects and won't believe your warnings.

4) it feels so good they are willing to take the risk.

5) they intend to take hygienic precautions, they just didn't bother mentioning that.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Because people are dumbfucks, mostly. I wish I had a more eloquent answer for you, LOL.

That's okay, sometimes the least eloquent answers are the most forthright

Actually, come to think of it, that should be MOST of the least eloquent answers. Eloquent statements always seem to be hiding something >.>

 

[Homburg]

Some possible answers;

1) ignorance

2) it's just fantasy talk

3) they've done it before with no ill effects and won't believe your warnings.

4) it feels so good they are willing to take the risk.

5) they intend to take hygienic precautions, they just didn't bother mentioning that.

#2 for the win, again and again and again.

Le sigh.

Note - The rest are valid. #2 just seems to keep on popping up.

 

[Stella_Omega]

#2 for the win, again and again and again.

Le sigh.

Note - The rest are valid. #2 just seems to keep on popping up.

Why else are we on the internet?

By the way-- what punishements are you complaining about, bhbe?

 

[Homburg]

Why else are we on the internet?

Uh, communication with like-minded folk on topics of mutual interest, finding pussy/cock, attempting to alleviate boredom, self-education, etc. Lots of reasons aside from fantasy. They usually run second, tihrd, etc, but still lots of reasons.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Why else are we on the internet?

By the way-- what punishements are you complaining about, bhbe?

Nothing specific, I just keep seeing suggestions (I don't want to point out specific posts) made that make me go "uhmmm, are you ASKING for X-disease/pathological-process??" Honestly, I don't even see it that frequently in stories to the point where I just go ""

 

[ownedsubgal]

blueyes, are you talking about punishments specifically or just activities period? because i can't say i've seen much "encouraging" of punishments at all...after all punishment is an unpleasantness meant to be avoided. i agree with Stella and Homburg, it just sounds like you're coming across a lot of wank material never intended for reality.

of course people are absolutely to take risks of all sorts in order to accomplish a particular goal within this lifestyle...my Master frequently shares me sexually with other men, for instance, and even with protection there are always going to dangers there. but those are the risks we are willing to take. everyone chooses the risk level they find acceptable in their lives.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Example, please?

I don't understand why people punish, period. Punishment dynamics [generally] don't work; communication and personal responsibility [generally] does.

while i understand (i think) your issue with punishment dynamics in general CM, it should be noted that they are very effective and quite necessary for some people. and of course the implementing of a punishment dynamic does not that communication and personal responsibility are tossed out the window.

 

[teknight]

of course people are absolutely to take risks of all sorts in order to accomplish a particular goal within this lifestyle...my Master frequently shares me sexually with other men, for instance, and even with protection there are always going to dangers there. but those are the risks we are willing to take. everyone chooses the risk level they find acceptable in their lives.

Or we dismiss some dangers as we don't think they apply to us, we can't really understand the risks, or are just plain ignorant.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Nothing specific, I just keep seeing suggestions (I don't want to point out specific posts) made that make me go "uhmmm, are you ASKING for X-disease/pathological-process??" Honestly, I don't even see it that frequently in stories to the point where I just go ""

I assume you're talking about urine retention in that one thread on punishment ideas-- or the possibility of choking on grapes?

I think the grapes idea is dumb, but urine retention is kinda hot.

As ownedsubgal points out, many people's BDSM practices seem risky to outsiders. Or are risky, even. That's just the way it is. That's also why BDSM folk have forums to themselves, so as not to have to deal with vanilla reactions to the things we like.

Hell, we have enough problems here with our own reactions to things... Everyone's boundaries get stepped on at some time.

 

[sb2009]

so stabbing my eye with a rusted fork a dozen times for each time I forget to call him Most Holy Master of the Largest Cock in the Universe is probably not the safest thing to do?

 

[CutieMouse]

while i understand (i think) your issue with punishment dynamics in general CM, it should be noted that they are very effective and quite necessary for some people. and of course the implementing of a punishment dynamic does not that communication and personal responsibility are tossed out the window.

My views on punishment stem from my philosophies re: parenting and discipline dynamics with children, and many years of disciplining the short humans. IMO discipline involving natural consequences tends to teach lessons; punishment (often fear based) is more likely to teach fear of fucking up. The dots don't necessarily always connect. I also acknowledge that there are those for whom punishment dynamics are vital to the health of the relationship - I simply consider those people to be rather rare birds in the grand scheme of things.

I do believe in discipline in power based relationships. Granted it's a somewhat semantical point, but every time I see a suggestion that someone be "punished" by climaxing 73 times in a row, or see some idiot suggest a "punishment" that has Jack to do with the crime, I tick off the Horney Net Geek box and decide the source is a twit.

 

[Stella_Omega]

so stabbing my eye with a rusted fork a dozen times for each time I forget to call him Most Holy Master of the Largest Cock in the Universe is probably not the safest thing to do?

As long as you're aware of the risk and it's consensual...

And maybe I'm not there to witness it.

 

[teknight]

so stabbing my eye with a rusted fork a dozen times for each time I forget to call him Most Holy Master of the Largest Cock in the Universe is probably not the safest thing to do?

It was THIRTEEN times! Get it right!

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I assume you're talking about urine retention in that one thread on punishment ideas-- or the possibility of choking on grapes?

I think the grapes idea is dumb, but urine retention is kinda hot.

As ownedsubgal points out, many people's BDSM practices seem risky to outsiders. Or are risky, even. That's just the way it is. That's also why BDSM folk have forums to themselves, so as not to have to deal with vanilla reactions to the things we like.

Hell, we have enough problems here with our own reactions to things... Everyone's boundaries get stepped on at some time.

Those weren't really examples I was thinking of. I'm sorry if I'm coming off all "vanilla reaction"-y. It simply does not make sense to me to make yourself or someone else ill, even if that is not the intent. Sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[teknight]

Those weren't really examples I was thinking of. I'm sorry if I'm coming off all "vanilla reaction"-y. It simply does not make sense to me to make yourself or someone else ill, even if that is not the intent. Sorry if I offended anyone.

I'm gonna make a leap of faith and say that the posters aren't offended.
Or are you looking to get punished for being naughty?!
If anything, I'm confused cause you're being too vague!

 

[ownedsubgal]

My views on punishment stem from my philosophies re: parenting and discipline dynamics with children, and many years of disciplining the short humans. IMO discipline involving natural consequences tends to teach lessons; punishment (often fear based) is more likely to teach fear of fucking up. The dots don't necessarily always connect. I also acknowledge that there are those for whom punishment dynamics are vital to the health of the relationship - I simply consider those people to be rather rare birds in the grand scheme of things.


I do believe in discipline in power based relationships. Granted it's a somewhat semantical point, but every time I see a suggestion that someone be "punished" by climaxing 73 times in a row, or see some idiot suggest a "punishment" that has Jack to do with the crime, I tick off the Horney Net Geek box and decide the source is a twit.

both discipline and punishment (and i don't find the difference to be purely semantic...they are quite different beasts) are vital elements of my relationship. too often punishment dynamics get a bad rap because of just the sort of thing you mention...people coming online and using the word "punishment" to mean "really fun kinda kinky thing i like to do," or just as bad...being seemingly punishment-obsessed and spending all their time making up new and yet more ridiculous things to subject someone to for the mildest of "infractions."

i do think it's a shame though that there isn't more discussion on the effectiveness of punishment within D/s, when properly implemented. it also sucks that so many have the assumption that punishment is used as a replacement for discipline or productive communication. the one point on where we agree...real punishment does tend to induce fear, however that too can be a positive. i fear my Master, but the fear is not what keeps me in line. it does help me maintain a humble and reverential mindset toward him, and for us that is vital.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Not by any of you lot I just don't like to offend people (although I tend to do so without thinking)

I dunno. I suppose, oh, like some of the suggestions like drinking a bunch salt water or vaginal administration of wine or whatever. It just strikes me as if people don't actually THINK about the health consequences of such suggestions, which I don't understand. I mean, I'd be pissed as hell if my boyfriend thought that little of my well being, no matter what he's called in private!! But, as I said, I could just be hyper-aware of such risks due to my education, and I'm also not as in to BDSM most people here are, I'm sure.

 

[teknight]

Not by any of you lot I just don't like to offend people (although I tend to do so without thinking)

I dunno. I suppose, oh, like some of the suggestions like drinking a bunch salt water or vaginal administration of wine or whatever. It just strikes me as if people don't actually THINK about the health consequences of such suggestions, which I don't understand. I mean, I'd be pissed as hell if my boyfriend thought that little of my well being, no matter what he's called in private!! But, as I said, I could just be hyper-aware of such risks due to my education, and I'm also not as in to BDSM most people here are, I'm sure.

How about, for stuff like that, people are just plain clueless to the health implications? Besides, I like totally read that in a story on Lit, where there's nary a condom to be found.

To cite Stella and at least one other poster- it's blatant ignorance, combined with the whole fantasy thing. But, yeah, I'd cite ignorance.

 

[CutieMouse]

both discipline and punishment (and i don't find the difference to be purely semantic...they are quite different beasts) are vital elements of my relationship. too often punishment dynamics get a bad rap because of just the sort of thing you mention...people coming online and using the word "punishment" to mean "really fun kinda kinky thing i like to do," or just as bad...being seemingly punishment-obsessed and spending all their time making up new and yet more ridiculous things to subject someone to for the mildest of "infractions."

i do think it's a shame though that there isn't more discussion on the effectiveness of punishment within D/s, when properly implemented. it also sucks that so many have the assumption that punishment is used as a replacement for discipline or productive communication. the one point on where we agree...real punishment does tend to induce fear, however that too can be a positive. i fear my Master, but the fear is not what keeps me in line. it does help me maintain a humble and reverential mindset toward him, and for us that is vital.

Yep. You're one of the rare birds that have taught me over the years that there are relationships where punishment is a meaningful and positive part of a relationship.

 

[CutieMouse]

Not by any of you lot I just don't like to offend people (although I tend to do so without thinking)

I dunno. I suppose, oh, like some of the suggestions like drinking a bunch salt water or vaginal administration of wine or whatever. It just strikes me as if people don't actually THINK about the health consequences of such suggestions, which I don't understand. I mean, I'd be pissed as hell if my boyfriend thought that little of my well being, no matter what he's called in private!! But, as I said, I could just be hyper-aware of such risks due to my education, and I'm also not as in to BDSM most people here are, I'm sure.

Online especially, most people don't - because BDSM and D/s is some hawt fantasy land /porn thing, not reality. As I mentioned in another thread. there's far more D/s stuff I don't do, than do do - yet I identify as a submissive/masochist type person. (IMO) It isn't so much about being into BDSM or not, as being into the fantasy of BDSM or not.

 

[teknight]

Online especially, most people don't - because BDSM and D/s is some hawt fantasy land /porn thing, not reality. As I mentioned in another thread. there's far more D/s stuff I don't do, than do do - yet I identify as a submissive/masochist type person. (IMO) It isn't so much about being into BDSM or not, as being into the fantasy of BDSM or not.

Isn't there a thread...possibly started by Keroin, where the question is whether BDSM authors have any sort of responsibility to present the acts truthfully in terms of consequences, etc?