Fight Club

[sweetnpetite]

I just saw fight club for the first time (on TV) and I would appreciate some intelligent conversation on it (by those who like and/or dislike it). I tried imdb, but as usual, that was fruitless as most conversations are "it was really deep" or "this movie sucks ass and is an over-rated piece of crap." or "where can I get the tshirt that Brad Pitt wore in that one scene?"

Thoughts?

 

[AngeloMichael]

I really wish I could have seen this movie without having been spoiled on the ending, I want to know if I would have figured out the twist.

All in all it's a brilliant movie, IMO. The acting by both Norton and Pitt are great, but especially Norton.

I've talked to people about this film and I hear a lot of "it's a guys' movie" and things like that but for me I was just totally engrossed in the mental dissection of "Jack". The journey he goes through during the movie, especially when you find out at the end the extra things he or really Tyler has been up to. I think this story can be interesting to male or female.

I didn't watch this movie and end up wanting to be like Jack (or Tyler) or idolized them like I know some guys do and I didn't watch this movie and be repulsed by what they did like I know some women were. I just ended up being engrossed by the story and I usually am again every time I see it come on television, it's one of those movies that stops the clicker when you land on it.

 

[Liar]

I just saw fight club for the first time (on TV) and I would appreciate some intelligent conversation on it (by those who like and/or dislike it). I tried imdb, but as usual, that was fruitless as most conversations are "it was really deep" or "this movie sucks ass and is an over-rated piece of crap." or "where can I get the tshirt that Brad Pitt wore in that one scene?"

Thoughts?

It's not really all that deep. People seem to over analyze it way too much

But it's a witty, stylish and entertaining whodunnit/dark comedy with fun twists and turns, good acting and a killer soundtrack.

 

[sweetnpetite]

It's not really all that deep. People seem to over analyze it way too much

But it's a witty, stylish and entertaining whodunnit/dark comedy with fun twists and turns, good acting and a killer soundtrack.

I don't think that people over analyze it, or that it's just witty. It features quite a bit of philosophy, whether you subscribe to Tyler's brand of nihilism/anti-consumerism/anarchy or not. Yes, I do think that it is trying to make a point and a statement about our society, not just be clever and witty.

I do think that its very "deep" (I just hate to use that wording"), despite the fact that a lot of hollywood movies are extremely shallow, this movie has the ability to be VERY thought provoking, very similar in many ways to American Beauty or even Office Space or the Good Girl... with American Beauty probably being the closest depth wise.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I find it interesting that the writer of the book thought that the movie had a better ending.

I also like repeat watchings of the movie to see all the little hints that point towards what is really going on. I wasn't spoiled by the end. I didn't know that there was anything to spoil until I had seen the movie already. I was blown away by that, really. I think I figured it out just a second or two before the characters on the screen gave it away so blatantly.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I find it interesting that the writer of the book thought that the movie had a better ending.

I also like repeat watchings of the movie to see all the little hints that point towards what is really going on. I wasn't spoiled by the end. I didn't know that there was anything to spoil until I had seen the movie already. I was blown away by that, really. I think I figured it out just a second or two before the characters on the screen gave it away so blatantly.

I figured it out a second or two before as well... I find it VERY interesting to watch after knowing, it gives the whole thing a different perspective, not just the hints and clues, but the whole thing.

The twist is not why I think that the movie has depth, but it was a fantastic mindfuck. the best ever.

As for it being a guy movie, I thought that it was until I watched it. I know a girl of 22 who says it's her favorite movie, and it's in my top whatever for sure! I think part of the brilliance is that it's very "guy" and yet at the same time has that cross gender appeal.

"Jack" and "Tyler" are meant to be two sides to every man. active/fearless and passive/afraid among other things. I think that it applies to all of us though, male or female. Also, I love the commentary on our culture (sad people buy more things btw, and isn't it interesting that depression seems to be skyrocketing in this day and age?... TV feeds depression and creates quite a viscous cycle. I'm certainly not saying that I am immune, I'm not even close to immune. But I'm aware (most of the time)

The sad thing to me is that most people (including myself) will agree with a lot of what Tyler has to say, and then go on living their lives exactly the same way, thinking to themselves, "this is the last sofa I'll ever have to buy"

 

[sweetnpetite]

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fight_club/

"An absolutely amazing movie, as subversive as it gets. It's a wonder it ever got made, especially by a major studio." (that's what I was thinking)

http://www.montrealfilmjournal.com/review.asp?R=R0000208

"Fight Club" is an absolutely amazing movie, as subversive as it gets. It's a wonder it ever got made, especially by a major studio. This masterpiece is a picture that screams for people to wake up and revolt against the absurdity of modern life. Of course it's gathering controversy. It's anti-capitalism, borderline nihilistic and downright anarchist, for sure. Some might even say that it's anti-God, and not quite without evidence. But ain't that what movies are about? Art is supposed to make you think, to push you to react. It shouldn't leave you indifferent. These days everyone blames movies for violence in our society. Don't stop selling guns to kids (that's big money), but turn every movie into Disney sap to shut people up for a while. Maybe they'll keep ignoring that Nike is exploiting kids to pay Michael Jordan, that automobile moguls will recall cars only if it'll cost less than settling malfunction cases out of court, that you gotta kill half-extinct species of whales to make classy perfume... If we stop making movies with violence just in case some moron might screw up (which he would probably have done anyway), cinema will become a travesty of reality, and we'll be deprived of many potential masterpieces. If violence had never been in movies, there would have been no "A Clockwork Orange" or "Taxi Driver"; we're talking about some of the greatest movies ever made!


The movie is a frightening look at how any "normal" person could turn into a member of an extremist group. It shows how seductive anarchy and marginality can be at first, but it's also responsible enough to also show how these things often get out of hand and go too far. This movie makes you understand why some turn into terrorists, why some take part in a death cult, why Germans followed blindly Hitler and committed some of the most atrocious acts in history. This is a movie that should be shown to everyone in schools to be discussed. This is a movie as powerful and thought provoking as "Do the Right Thing" or "Schindler's List". And it's a comedy, too. One of the first things people too shaken by the issues of the film might talk about to lighten the mood might be the casting of rock star Meatloaf as Big Bob, a former bodybuilder who took so much steroids that he grew huge breasts and was deprived of his balls (literally). Or how shocking to see Helena Bonham Carter acting without wearing a corset, turning herself into the trashy Marla. Kudos to Carter for achieving to make Marla somehow endearing.

 

[3113]

I love the movie and what I love is the black humor. The scene where we see he's living in a catalog, the joke about what the airline pamphlet should really say, the help groups he joins (sickle-cell--and Marla in the testicle cancer group), his inner creature being a penguin, Brad Pitt pulling on big rubber gloves before heading back in for more sex with Marla, etc.

While I can see the review's point about how the film can make us understand Germans following Hitler and atrocious acts, I think that's way too heavy a judgement on this film--certainly too heavy for me. However deep this movie is, it does have a that sense of humor, and I think it's "deepness" should be leavened with that. If it remarks on our group-think mentality and susceptibility, it does so in a way that laughs at us and says we're silly rather than sad. We see, for instance, the waiter in the ridiculous brace telling our hero NOT to have the soup--so even outrageous injuries are made laughable, especially in that they're treated as marks of honor. The buildings that get taken down are empty, and there are no victims taken to gas chambers. In fact, the only "victims" are those who are part of the club, beating up on each other. How much more absurd can you get? This isn't a comment about Hitler creating an axis of evil, it's about how we can only empower ourselves in this world by beating each other up! Even the one death that happens, happens in a way that is a joke.

The "normal-ness" of it all, and the fact that it could happen may be frightening, but it's also very funny.

The movie is about the search for empowerment in a world that tranquilizes us with catalog purchases, with assurances that we can survive an airline flight, with help groups that insist we can accept of the fact that we're dying. It lies to us about our ability to have control over what can't be controlled.

Hence, the Fight Club. Where Tyler insists that people fight. Everyone must fight rather than accept. And while I can understand why a lot of women found it a "guys" movie because of this message, it's interesting to me that Tyler seems to come into being thanks to Marla. She's the irritant, the catalyst that finally brings Tyler out. And, eventually, to be truly empowered, our protagonist has to fight and win out over Tyler and that need to fight all the time.

It's a very dark movie, but I find it rings true. And it makes me laugh out loud.

 

[UltimateSwitch]

The movie was fantastic...though personally some of the imagery in the book was more interesting. Pictureing the vines growing up the empire state building, and people drying meat on the big 20 lane highways...IDK it just got to me.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I always found it odd that Tyler was a proponent of free thought, and yet he raised a mindless army. "His name was Robert Paulson." Yeah, that's just great...

I have work to do or I would have put more thought into this thought...

 

[Boota]

I saw it with a friend and we both walked out of the theater talking about it and loving it. But we seemed to be the only ones. Everyone else was extremely disappointed. In the words of the sister-fucking hilljack that walked out in front of me, "That movie fuckin' sucked ass, man. I thought it was gonna be some Van Damme whoop ass shit, or sumthin'." No one seemed to get that it wasn't about fighting.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I love the movie and what I love is the black humor. The scene where we see he's living in a catalog, the joke about what the airline pamphlet should really say, the help groups he joins (sickle-cell--and Marla in the testicle cancer group), his inner creature being a penguin, Brad Pitt pulling on big rubber gloves before heading back in for more sex with Marla, etc.

While I can see the review's point about how the film can make us understand Germans following Hitler and atrocious acts, I think that's way too heavy a judgement on this film--certainly too heavy for me. However deep this movie is, it does have a that sense of humor, and I think it's "deepness" should be leavened with that. If it remarks on our group-think mentality and susceptibility, it does so in a way that laughs at us and says we're silly rather than sad. We see, for instance, the waiter in the ridiculous brace telling our hero NOT to have the soup--so even outrageous injuries are made laughable, especially in that they're treated as marks of honor. The buildings that get taken down are empty, and there are no victims taken to gas chambers. In fact, the only "victims" are those who are part of the club, beating up on each other. How much more absurd can you get? This isn't a comment about Hitler creating an axis of evil, it's about how we can only empower ourselves in this world by beating each other up! Even the one death that happens, happens in a way that is a joke.

The "normal-ness" of it all, and the fact that it could happen may be frightening, but it's also very funny.

The movie is about the search for empowerment in a world that tranquilizes us with catalog purchases, with assurances that we can survive an airline flight, with help groups that insist we can accept of the fact that we're dying. It lies to us about our ability to have control over what can't be controlled.

Hence, the Fight Club. Where Tyler insists that people fight. Everyone must fight rather than accept. And while I can understand why a lot of women found it a "guys" movie because of this message, it's interesting to me that Tyler seems to come into being thanks to Marla. She's the irritant, the catalyst that finally brings Tyler out. And, eventually, to be truly empowered, our protagonist has to fight and win out over Tyler and that need to fight all the time.

It's a very dark movie, but I find it rings true. And it makes me laugh out loud.

I don't think that the reviewer mean to say that the movie was in any way ABOUT Hitler, but if you are a sociologist, of oriented in that direction, you almost can't help drawing that comparison. And I have to disagree that it was ONLY about personal empowerment and that nobody got hurt except those in fight club. It was an nihilistic anarchist group, and they where involved in dangerous and destructive activity which, despite every precaution would eventually lead to people getting hurt. (is that bad, or necessary? innocent people where harmed during the American Revolution and many other times where any change or upheaval takes place such as the Industrial Revolution for example.)

I do agree that the black humor was fantastic, but I must also agree with the reviewer who said that this movie is as subversive as it gets. I guess the advantage of being subversive is that if you want to ignore that aspect, you can. Perhaps it's better if you do.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I always found it odd that Tyler was a proponent of free thought, and yet he raised a mindless army. "His name was Robert Paulson." Yeah, that's just great...

I have work to do or I would have put more thought into this thought...

Yeah, I noticed that too. I guess I chalked it up to the fact that Tyler was (as we all are) flawed and contradictory. And also a statement about the very nature of leading a movement, and the inherent contradiction of leading a movement of this type. It also reminds me of the hippies and almost any movement, the first wave are idealists, then they attract followers, then it becomes commercialized and "popular" and people are doing it for the style and the music and the drugs and the sex (or whatever) and the real movement becomes obscured and forgotten (but doesn't necessarily go way, just gets pushed back underground)

On imdb, someone asked where they could BUY the T-shirt that Tyler wore (without a hint of irony)! I can't help but groan at that.

I'm convinced that when all of us watch the same movie, each of us are watching a different movie.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I saw it with a friend and we both walked out of the theater talking about it and loving it. But we seemed to be the only ones. Everyone else was extremely disappointed. In the words of the sister-fucking hilljack that walked out in front of me, "That movie fuckin' sucked ass, man. I thought it was gonna be some Van Damme whoop ass shit, or sumthin'." No one seemed to get that it wasn't about fighting.

Anytime a movie is about something more than keeping you entertained for a couple hours so you'll by some popcorn, it seems like more people hate it than like it. We are not a society that values substance, in fact we devalue it. (Now is the time for someone to say that's NOT why the movie sucks, blabedy bla bla bla)

 

[3113]

I do agree that the black humor was fantastic, but I must also agree with the reviewer who said that this movie is as subversive as it gets. I guess the advantage of being subversive is that if you want to ignore that aspect, you can. Perhaps it's better if you do.

I in no way ignore the subversive, but I think the review completely missed the fact that the group creates itself and gets beyond the control of its "leader"--which is why I take issue with the Hitler comparison. Tyler's rule is "Don't talk about Fight Club." Yet everyone does (and we will grant that Tyler knew they would). That is how it becomes a group, by willfully subverting the very rules it lives by. It does the same thing in that scene Thee mentioned where everyone starts chanting the name "Robert."

That doesn't show that Tyler has raised a mindless army. It actually shows that the army has a mind of its own. When "Jack" says "his name was Robert," Jack isn't saying that you get a name if you die, nor is he commanding the group to chant Robert's name. THE group makes up that rule and decides to chant the name even though Jack/Tyler is telling them not to. THEY have made up their mind and Jack can't change it.

This is part of the absurdity and part of the point about that subversiveness you're so gleeful about. If you go for anarchy, then you go for something you can't control--because it's anarchy. It's not supposed to BE controlled. Hence it is NOT a Hitlerian dream of order and trains running on time and the less than perfect being wiped off the face of the Earth.

Tyler gets out of Jack's control. The group gets out of Jack/Tyler's control. That's anarchy. It's part of why Marla is the catalyst for all this. She's anarchy incarnate and Jack falls in love with her. The only problem with loving what is beyond your control, especially the chaos within you, is that you could end up fighting and shooting yourself. Which is exactly what Jack does.

And it's exactly what everyone in the group does as well. For all the mayhem they do around town, in the end, they're still fighting each other and, when someone dies, it's one of them and its because of the very mayhem they're trying to create. That is what makes us laugh and love this movie rather than come out feeling self-hatred because it's just proved to us that we're Nazis who send women and children to the gas chamber.

And I'm perfectly find with all that and any other subversiveness the movie contains.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I in no way ignore the subversive, but I think the review completely missed the fact that the group creates itself and gets beyond the control of its "leader"--which is why I take issue with the Hitler comparison. Tyler's rule is "Don't talk about Fight Club." Yet everyone does (and we will grant that Tyler knew they would). That is how it becomes a group, by willfully subverting the very rules it lives by. It does the same thing in that scene Thee mentioned where everyone starts chanting the name "Robert."

That doesn't show that Tyler has raised a mindless army. It actually shows that the army has a mind of its own. When "Jack" says "his name was Robert," Jack isn't saying that you get a name if you die, nor is he commanding the group to chant Robert's name. THE group makes up that rule and decides to chant the name even though Jack/Tyler is telling them not to. THEY have made up their mind and Jack can't change it.

This is part of the absurdity and part of the point about that subversiveness you're so gleeful about. If you go for anarchy, then you go for something you can't control--because it's anarchy. It's not supposed to BE controlled. Hence it is NOT a Hitlerian dream of order and trains running on time and the less than perfect being wiped off the face of the Earth.

Tyler gets out of Jack's control. The group gets out of Jack/Tyler's control. That's anarchy. It's part of why Marla is the catalyst for all this. She's anarchy incarnate and Jack falls in love with her. The only problem with loving what is beyond your control, especially the chaos within you, is that you could end up fighting and shooting yourself. Which is exactly what Jack does.

And it's exactly what everyone in the group does as well. For all the mayhem they do around town, in the end, they're still fighting each other and, when someone dies, it's one of them and its because of the very mayhem they're trying to create. That is what makes us laugh and love this movie rather than come out feeling self-hatred because it's just proved to us that we're Nazis who send women and children to the gas chamber.

And I'm perfectly find with all that and any other subversiveness the movie contains.

I find that a group mind is as mindless as a "follow all orders as stated" drone. Yes, they go against Tyler, but they are so afraid to buck the trends of the group that they just go along like a mindless zombie, no matter what devastation results from their actions.

There were only two instances in the movie (that I can think of right now, here at work, wishing I was out in the sun...) where the drones showed any kind of personal thought. In the car when Tyler pushed himself for a "What would you do" scenario, and when the first person started chanting "His name is Robert Paulson" (everyone else was just following, and he in return started following them right back into the hive-mind). Everyone else just seemed to go along with the group. "Hey, they are doing it, so I will too." No initiative. No personal thought. Just the group.

That is just mindless to me, and I have no time for people like that.

 

[sweetnpetite]

another quote from the same review:

And if you think that "The Sixth Sense" had a fall-off-your-seat climactic twist, wait till you see what Palahniuk concocted. More than just a surprise, it's a revelation that puts everything else in perspective, and makes it even scarier. The sequence that follows is therefore even more thrilling, as... Well, you'll see. Oh, and you gotta love the final shot, a wonderfully ironic anti-happy end perfectly edited to the Pixies' Where is My Mind.

"Fight Club" burns ideas in your brain, thrills you with its fights, makes you laugh and uses the art of filmmaking in a whole new way.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I myself am not a fan of anarchy. But I am a fan of philosophy.

I do think that the there is a contradiction as far as the anarchy goes, because they are an anarchist group, and they follow a leader.

IMO, life is contradictory. You can't totally avoid contradiction or hypocrisy. None of us completely live up to ideals, but Tyler DID say not to be complete, and that is something that I do agree with. If we were complete or perfect then we would stop striving, and then what?

"May I never be complete. May I never be content. May I never be perfect. Deliver me, Tyler, from being perfect and complete."

 

[bisexualsmoker]

IMO, life is contradictory. You can't totally avoid contradiction or hypocrisy. None of us completely live up to ideals, but Tyler DID say not to be complete, and that is something that I do agree with. If we were complete or perfect then we would stop striving, and then what?

I'm contradictory as well. No I'm not!