The Authors' Hangout 2010 Halloween Contest Support Thread

[theravenfox]

I usually don't get involved in stuff like this, but I find myself in the unique and unusual position of (sort of) agreeing with Scouries about the mid-stream editing. And I have to give a nod to the Pilot's point that just because Scouries said it doesn't make it wrong. It's occasionally worth sorting through the delusions of grandeur and fake organizations and contests. To get to the point, typos and grammatical error corrections are fine during a contest. But changing a major plot element when the story had already garnered votes does seem unfair.

Do I think harding cheated? No. Do I think harding deserved to win? Yes. Do I love Literotica? You better believe it. Do I respect Laurel and Manu? Of course, and they've earned that. But I agree with Babs that this issue needs to be addressed and the rules need to be tweaked.

Just my $0.02.

 

[michchick98]

Just another example of how screwy the contests are on this site, I guess.

Scouries's second point on whether a contest entry with two separate substantive versions is one story or two is also quite a legitimate question--in the real, adult world.

It's a good question, and one that should get some consideration. Take movies....I recall one movie in particular that had 4 different endings to it. Each ending was shown in different theaters. Once you rented or bought the movie on VHS or DVD, you could get all 4 endings included. The movie was CLUE. Did it change the whole movie? No. Just gave alternative endings.

The same holds for Special Features or Bonus Materials on DVD. Many times an alternate ending will be offered. Again, it doesn't change the movie, just gives a different possible outcome.

As for altering an ending during a contest? Well, that's a gray area. Harding said the scores declined after the revision so I'm guessing it didn't make much of a difference in this case. Should he be disqualified? No. Did he cheat? I don't think he did, at least in my opinion. Bottom line, it's not like his revising the story will have an adverse reaction on our everyday quality of life. It's a free porn site, nothing more.

It may be a topic of controversy and debate for awhile, but until there's a rule disallowing editing a story during a contest, there's not much any of us can do. Except, of course, not enter a contest....but that would be an individual author's choice, of course.

 

[harding]

It's a free porn site, nothing more.

I've been kind of sitting watching this go on and thinking what the hell have I done?

I also changed my story in the Summer Lovin' Contest, but before I did, because I thought it may not be right emailed and asked was it OK. I got back the standard response on how to change stories after submission so made a minor edit of one submission in that contest.

When I received comments that people really liked my Halloween story, but that the end was not consistent I thought about it and agreed and changed just the ending so it made more logical sense.

Having explained all that (and I thought long and hard about whether I ought to even think about explaining what I did), I kind of also agree that stories should not be changed in a competition after submission

However, the quote at the top says it all. Get over it, for God's sake! Write something better, and if you can't write something better then just write.

One of the things I love about writing (and I've been doing it for over 40 years now) is that it's not really a competitive profession (usually). There are more readers out there than books that can be read. I know that as a reader, I always want more, more, more and am waiting for stuff I want to read to become available.

If you write well enough there will always be people who like your work. The competition's are fun, nothing more...

Anyway, the three of us cannot enter again for six months anyway.

So, scouries, here's you're chance!

 

[sr71plt]

My point is not that anything was done intentionally wrong or even that it didn't fall within the rules. And I certainly don't suggest that any results be changed.

I have two points:

This is not what you do in a short story contest--especially if the point is that this is to help writer development. You don't change entries after officially submitted. Judges don't weigh in on changes that can be made midstream to improve the entry with the contestant permitted to change substance in mid vote. Whatever lessons there are to be learned from comments are for the next story/contest, not the current one. It also doesn't mean beans whether or not in the specific case there was any effect on the end result. This just isn't the way real short story contests are conducted. And, especially if you are in it for the development, you don't get to think this is legitimate in the real world.

The second point is that no matter who brings up a legitimate question, the question doesn't become illegitimate just because folks don't like who brought it up (and, again, in this case, it wasn't even Scouries who brought it up). That's junior high hijinks.

 

[sr71plt]

It's a good question, and one that should get some consideration. Take movies....I recall one movie in particular that had 4 different endings to it. Each ending was shown in different theaters. Once you rented or bought the movie on VHS or DVD, you could get all 4 endings included. The movie was CLUE. Did it change the whole movie? No. Just gave alternative endings.

Oh, was Clue put up--and accepted--in the same award competition in two or more variations? If not, I don't see the relevance here.

Perhaps more relevant to Literotica was my recent experience--not even in a contest--here on my "Silas's Choice." Readers asked for an expansion. So I did an expansion--a significantly longer expansion, like three or four times longer. And the site initially rejected the story on the basis that they don't accept variations of the same story (apparently in contests they do, though. ). I did eventually get it accepted--to just the story file, not even to a contest--where the readers seem to think variations are OK (it's rating at 4.83). But, in that particular case--just the regular story file, not even a contest--the editors initially didn't think so.

So, it's all just a bit too mushy. But just in the fantasy world and depending on what's convenient on a given day, apparently. Oh, yes, also on which faction is pushing what interpretation.

 

[michchick98]

Oh, was Clue put up--and accepted--in the same award competition in two or more variations? If not, I don't see the relevance here.

Thanks for not getting my point in using Clue as an example. It was an example, not the carved in stone gospel of right and wrong, but as usual, you've gotta get in your two cents. Typical and anticipated from you.

As I said before, bottom line is this is a free porn site. You win a bit of money and bragging rights in the special contests and monthly contests. Yeah, maybe it's wrong for harding to have altered the ending of his story a few days before the contest ended, but it's not the end of the fucking universe.

Did anyone track the scores? Did the revision make that much of a difference? Would he have won if he hadn't made the revision, or would he have lost at least the first place slot?

The ending of the story changed, but unless he did an entire re-write of the whole story then re-posted it as an edit, I doubt the score made that much of a difference.

Hell, I even agreed with scouries in questioning it. What I didn't agree with was his usual M.O., the over-the-top, accusatory way he went about it.

So thanks again for not getting the point on the example I provided.

 

[YoursSINSerely]

Thanks for not getting my point in using Clue as an example. It was an example, not the carved in stone gospel of right and wrong, but as usual, you've gotta get in your two cents. Typical and anticipated from you.

As I said before, bottom line is this is a free porn site. You win a bit of money and bragging rights in the special contests and monthly contests. Yeah, maybe it's wrong for harding to have altered the ending of his story a few days before the contest ended, but it's not the end of the fucking universe.

Did anyone track the scores? Did the revision make that much of a difference? Would he have won if he hadn't made the revision, or would he have lost at least the first place slot?

The ending of the story changed, but unless he did an entire re-write of the whole story then re-posted it as an edit, I doubt the score made that much of a difference.

Hell, I even agreed with scouries in questioning it. What I didn't agree with was his usual M.O., the over-the-top, accusatory way he went about it.

So thanks again for not getting the point on the example I provided.

The real point is that the system allowed him to make changes at all, which could have been major changes to the whole story. He/she has admitted it was just the ending, but anyone of us are allowed to go in and edit whatever the commenters don't like. What if a goodie two shoe editor offered to help rewrite a story for someone and then it got reposted? It's possible. We can even go in and delete comments if we want to. That shouldn't happen, either. Censorship.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks for not getting my point in using Clue as an example. It was an example, not the carved in stone gospel of right and wrong, but as usual, you've gotta get in your two cents. Typical and anticipated from you.

OK, I'm game. How is the Clue example in any way an example relevant to this contest?

The variations in ending to Clue were a marketing ploy to play on the very nature of the game of Clue. Clever, yes. But what in the hell does that have to do with changing substantive short story content during contest voting--or even with any similar circumstance in the movie world? I'm all ears. By all means, point to the relevance.

And after that, explain how what you went on to post has anything to do with what I've posted.

I'm trying to zero in on the essential issues--and off the top said the circumstance is already passed us. And I repeated them because posters like you were breezing right by them to another agenda. I return to the principles, though, because posters like you want to ignore them for the "get Scouries" game.

Some of you guys are busy shoveling nonsense over the issue. And if it turns into a shouting match, it will be because you can't stand Scouries having a legitimate point about anything--nor can you tolerate anyone pointing out that he does. (The last time we went through this, you automatically--and nonsensically--threw me into the Scouries camp on your next post. Going to get into that sophomoric silliness again?)

 

[michchick98]

OK, I'm game. How is the Clue example in any way an example relevant to this contest?

The variations in ending to Clue were a marketing ploy to play on the very nature of the game of Clue. Clever, yes. But what in the hell does that have to do with changing substantive short story content during contest voting--or even with any similar circumstance in the movie world? I'm all ears. By all means, point to the relevance.

Yeah, it was a marketing ploy, but it still didn't change the movie as a whole, did it? That's the point.

I'm trying to zero in on the essential issues--and off the top said the circumstance is already passed us. And I repeated them because posters like you were breezing right by them to another agenda. I return to the principles, though, because posters like you want to ignore them for the "get Scouries" game.

The essential issue here was the fact that harding submitted a revised ending 5 days before the Halloween contest ended. People, scouries included, were questioning whether it was right or wrong. That's what I'm getting out of all this, what are you getting out of it?

And who's putting who in what camp now there, sunshine? Once again, it's okay for you but not for me?

If you would've bothered to read my entire post and not zero in on one particular thing I said, you would've seen that I said I agreed with scouries on this particular point.

Some of you guys are busy shoveling nonsense over the issue. And if it turns into a shouting match, it will be because you can't stand Scouries having a legitimate point about anything--nor can you tolerate anyone pointing out that he does. (The last time we went through this, you automatically--and nonsensically--threw me into the Scouries camp on your next post. Going to get into that sophomoric silliness again?)

And you seem to be the one who keeps bringing up us having an issue with scouries. If you would've read my post, I said I agree with his questioning of it. What part of that did you miss?

Oh and we didn't go through THIS last time. I was simply pointing out that you and scouries are members of the 'its okay for me and not for you' club on something completely and totally irrelevant to this topic. So no, I won't get into the sophomoric silliness about it again, you managed quite nicely to bring it up all on your own.

Let me say it again, since you missed it in my last post: I agreed with scouries in questioning it. What I didn't agree with was his usual M.O., the over-the-top, accusatory way he went about it. There, even put it in bold print so you can see it this time. As a matter of fact, I think a few other people said they agreed with scouries, too.

 

[sr71plt]

Yeah, it was a marketing ploy, but it still didn't change the movie as a whole, did it? That's the point.

Which remains totally irrelevant to this issue. Don't be a dummy about this.

I was simply pointing out that you and scouries are members of the 'its okay for me and not for you' club on something completely and totally irrelevant to this topic.

OK, I'm game again. Explain this one. What have I posted that's OK for me but not for you? It's OK, I'll wait.

On the other hand, just forget it. It's just more irrelevant flak you are throwing up into the air.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

In the words of Manny Ramirez, the greatest hitter that played for the Boston Red Sox, since the late, great, and frozen head of Ted Williams,

"What does it matter?"

It doesn't matter. Right Manny?

The concept of these contests are fun, pure and simple. Anyone who takes any of this seriously is being foolish.

These are not writing contests, as they are more popularity contests. Generally, it's not the best stories that win but the writer who is the most popular and/or who can gather the most votes from friends, relatives, and from working as an overnight office cleaner with access to hundreds of different computers.

"What's that office cleaner doing on the computer?"

"Oh, he writes for Literotica. He's just voting for his story."

"Oh."

See?

I can imagine the uproar if I or Scouries had entered a story and changed the ending in mid competition. Wow!

Yet, what does it matter? It doesn't. What matters is all the fun you had writing and/or reading stories. Am I right? Yeah, sure it would have been great to win a few dollars, but let's face it, you'd have a better chance of being struck by lightning than you would winning a contest here.

Did everyone have fun? Wasn't it great writing a story?

Did you feel that high when you got the idea for the story and felt that satisfaction when it was done and posted. Finally, sitting back and watching the votes and reading the comments that was fun, too.

Did you feel that low when your story was bashed and when you lost, even though you were sure you'd win? That's life.

And to think it was all for free.

My opinion is that the writer should not have been allowed to change his or her story. The fact that the owners approved the change, discussion over.

I still say and have always said, we should have a panel of fellow writers who take turns to judge the contest stories, sort of like a writers' jury. Pick twelve different writers each month and they rate the stories. To be fair, make their ratings count 33% and add in the other 33% from the popular vote, and the last 33% from the site owners and/or moderators.

What do you think? Comments?

Nah, I won't receive any comments because everyone has me on ignore. I'm such a bad guy. If I receive any comment it will be a bash.

Nonetheless, my congratulations to the winners of another fun contest. I shall look forward to the Winter contest.

Happy Halloween. Watch your step leaving the thread.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

One more thing. Get closer to the computer, I don't want everyone to read this. I want this to be our little secret.

Good writers, real writers, don't write on forum boards.

I know your face is all red and that vein is sticking out of your forehead already, but it's true. A good writer would find posting to forum boards, even taking the time to write an e-mail or answer a feedback a waste of their time.

A good writer has better things to do, such as, write stories. A good writer wouldn't want his or her mind cluttered with all the crap that plays out here over and again, even worse than a soap opera. At least a soap opera has good looking women. I don't think there's a good looking woman here in the bunch, except for Yourssincerely. She's a MILF.

Good writers are lonely people. Writers in general are a solitary group and writing is, usually, painful.

Writers don't have very many friends and, I dare say, aren't very popular. A good writer would never win a contest here. Nope. It will never happen. Sorry, that's just my opinion.

So, why would a good writer write here at all? I have my answers, the reasons why I write here, but you may disagree with me thinking that I'm a good writer. Let me give you my opinion of my writing.

I'm a better writer than when I started writing here in 2007 and every year I improve. Maybe in 40 years, I'll be a great writer. I dunno. All I know is, I'm having fun.

If I think about my stories and all that I've writen, I've had a Hell of a good time and I never won a monthly or a theme contest. Yeah, sure I won some money with Survivor. Actually, if it wasn't for Survivor, I wouldn't be the writer that I am. Survivor has allowed me to write in nearly every category. How many of you can say that?

All I'm saying is that while all you professional forum writers are writing the same stuff but on a different day, go write a story. If anyone has a right to complain here, it's not you, but a real writer, a writer who never writes here.

Let's here from a real writer, someone who writes here, but who has never posted on the forum board and who has never even entered a contest. I'd like to read his or her opinion. I already know what the rest of you will write, the same old stuff, nothing new.

Much like me, I'm sorry to write, none of you are good writers.

 

[HeyAll]

It might be fun for you, but I needed the money to pay my bills.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

I might be fun for you, but I needed the money to pay my bills.

Sorry, but I'm not interested in having fun with you and if you think I'm going to give you money for sex, well, I don't have to pay for it.

Gees, can you imagine him or her? Wow. Prostitution is alive and well at Literotica.

"Security!"

 

[sr71plt]

I might be fun for you, but I needed the money to pay my bills.

Yes, I think that makes a significant difference. It's a contest for monetary gain. That doesn't mean anything to many who enter--but that it does to some of the others is what colors the whole contest.

 

[sr71plt]

"Let's here from a real writer"

That reveals soo much in so few words.

Sorry, Freddie, but real writers like to take breaks from writing too. This is their entertainment. But then you know that; that's why your posts are so outrageous on the boards. You consider yourself an entertainer.

(Besides, you can do your forum postings as an alt.)

 

[HeyAll]

I was just kidding.


And I meant to write "IT might be.."





But I do think the scoring is a little bit unfair. Someone with a 4.7 score from 26 votes would be ranked over someone with a 4.6 score from 2,600 votes.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

I was just kidding.


And I meant to write "IT might be.."





But I do think the scoring is a little bit unfair. Someone with a 4.7 score from 26 votes would be ranked over someone with a 4.6 score from 2,600 votes.

I know what you meant and I was only have some fun.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Yes, I think that makes a significant difference. It's a contest for monetary gain. That doesn't mean anything to many who enter--but that it does to some of the others is what colors the whole contest.

I agree with you, but what do you suggest?

Not reward writers who write here any opportunity at winning money for all the stories they've written that support this site?

That seems as one sided as some of these contests.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

"Let's here from a real writer"

That reveals soo much in so few words.

Sorry, Freddie, but real writers like to take breaks from writing too. This is their entertainment. But then you know that; that's why your posts are so outrageous on the boards. You consider yourself an entertainer.

(Besides, you can do your forum postings as an alt.)

Can we have an intelligent conversation without you attacking me?

I don't consider writing tens of thousand of forum posts taking breaks. I consider that a full-time avocation.

Entertainer? Aren't we all? Yet, my personal entertainment is writing and if someone enjoys my story and honors me with some honest feedback without bashing my score and bashing my story, then I'm a happy woman, I mean, man.

And who are you to write that I have alts, when you are employed by this site. How many secret alts do you have Mr. Spy? And why do you offer no one a clue to who you are by posting a photo, as I do. Yep, that's me alright, the good looking dude.

 

[OnnaDare]

Did everyone have fun? Wasn't it great writing a story?

Did you feel that high when you got the idea for the story and felt that satisfaction when it was done and posted. Finally, sitting back and watching the votes and reading the comments that was fun, too.

THIS! I did have fun! 15,00+ reads - 60+ votes, a modest (but +4!) score, and 5, count 'em, 5 positive comments!

I feel like a winner! And thank you all for the boards - they're such a fun read!

Onna

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

THIS! I did have fun! 15,00+ reads - 60+ votes, a modest (but +4!) score, and 5, count 'em, 5 positive comments!

I feel like a winner! And thank you all for the boards - they're such a fun read!

Onna

Gees, that doesn't make any sense. You had 15 reads and 60 votes? I sounds to me like people voted for you 4 times. That doesn't seem fair (lol).

Actually, I pulled two of my stories in 2007, a mother-in-law story and a sister-in-law story to publish elsewhere. At the time the one story had 880,000 hits and 800 votes and the other had 550,000 hits and 450 votes. I always wondered what they would have had by now.

Just teasing you about your hits, but you get my message. It's fun to write, but it's not fun when you have others who are jealous, bash you, bash your story, and hit you with a multitude of 3 votes to make sure that it's not a fair contest.

Still, so long as you have a personal victory in writing a story, then it's all worth the effort.

 

[scouries]

QUOTE y’all But I do think the scoring is a little bit unfair. Someone with a 4.7 score from 26 votes would be ranked over someone with a 4.6 score from 2,600 votes.

Which my dear person is why we have A.I.R.! But I wouldn’t repeat that opinion again if I were you – it sounds far too scourian

http://rushthecourt.net/mag/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/arizona-coeds.jpg
we love scouries…​

[size=+2]james r scouries esq.[/size]
Multiple A.I.R. AWARD winner, MILLION SELLER,
Author of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story on LITEROTICA

 

[sr71plt]

I don't consider writing tens of thousand of forum posts taking breaks. I consider that a full-time avocation.

And yet as many times as you post that, there are all of those real books my sig line points to--with the list continually building (in contrast to the covers of the two fake ones you have plastered on your profile). So, no matter how many times you say that someone can't post a lot here and still be a prolific writer, reality just shows that this assertion is not true, doesn't it? Reality bites example one.

Not my issue that you can't manage to multitask. (Reality bites example two)

Any who are you to write that I have alts, when you are employed by this site. How many secret alts do you have Mr. Spy? And why do you offer no one a clue to who you are by posting a photo, as I do. Yep, that's me alright, the good looking dude.[/SIZE][/FONT]

If I was employed the site (which is an idiotic notion from this thread alone--where I'm essentially saying that the site's contest structure sucks), I'd be getting royalities like Scouries claims he is, wouldn't I? But I'm not--I don't even have the secret donor you amusingly claimed sent you thousands of dollars for not winning the Survivor's contest three years ago . All I get from the site is quite a few Green Es on my stories--which sort of brings up Scouries again--getting royalities but no Green Es. What's up with that? (Reality bites, example three)

I share the alt Shabbu with Sabb, because we post cowritten stories under that name. But my profile owns up to that one. And the only time anything has been posted to the forum under that name was because I was checking Shabbu's story file and forgot to change names--and I've immediately noted that on the forum. My only other alts are ones I use to post separate genre stories under (which makes you a dimwit for claiming I only post GM here--which isn't even true for the sr71plt pen name. I post different genres under different names. Sr71plt is just the one I use for the forum). I've never posted to the forum under these other accounts.

If I had an alt, do you think I would have posted what I have to this thread the last two days under my sr71plt name? (Reality bites, example four)

You, on the other hand, are Andtheend and Positivethinker, among others--and have no talent in keeping you and your alts separate.

The closest photo I think of you really that you've posted was the one of the dog.

Reality sort of bites you in the butt, doesn't it? (example five)

And as far as the contests here, I've often expressed my opinion--that they'd be a lot more fun and a lot less crazy if there was no price tag on them at all. As it is, they are grossly unfair even in accessibility--you can win money-award contests nine ways from Sunday with straight stories, for instance, over Gay/lesbian/bi ones simply because there are so many straight categories and only one GM and one Lesbian, and no bi categories. This makes the category contests grossly unfair in terms of access to money wins from the getgo.

As always, I've enjoyed you stepping into this little corner you paint yourself into nearly every time you post.

 

[scouries]

http://www.muffslap.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/sexy-halloween-girls-132.jpg
Did you say doctor scouries?
​