The Authors' Hangout 2010 Halloween Contest Support Thread

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Michchick, you beat me to it *LOL*

Seth, is that what you do when you are trying to come up with contest ideas.....? ...

 

[sethp]

Michchick, you beat me to it *LOL*

Seth, is that what you do when you are trying to come up with contest ideas.....? ...

Yes usually it works but I make too many enemies! LOL

 

[scouries]

… your stories (like most on LITEROTICA) are rated far too high….One would expect under normal circumstances some sort of bell curve if we plotted all the scores. Maybe 10% between 1 and 2 and 10% between 4 and 5. Maybe 20% between 2 and 3 or 4 and 5. With the balance (40%) between 3 and 4…Or if the thousands of readers who clicked away from it before they got to the end had voted

QUOTE Owlwhisper Your bias against contest submissions may be showing for I think you've badly underrated the entry scores (if the Earth Day contest is any indication). In that contest, a week before the contest closed, of the 60 entries 50% were between 4 and 5, 47% were between 3 and 4 and only two of the entries were sub-3; none were below 2 (the all-entry average was 3.89). As of yesterday, fully two-thirds of the entries were between 4 and 5, and the remainder were between 3 and 4. None were below 3 and the overall average was 4.15. As a general rule, a distribution of story averages is so highly skewed toward high scores that it's hardly recognizable as a normal curve….

Yes I understand that. Which was my point (perhaps poorly made). As I said, and have said before, I believe stories on LITEROTICA are rated too highly! And I know they don’t follow a normal curve we might have expected for the scores of stories submitted by amateur authors.

And I believe the contest stories are even further inflated upwards (which your quoted figures seem to show). Here’s what the scores supposedly mean:

1) I Hated it!
2) I didn’t like it much
3) Liked it – keep on writing
4) Really liked it – good read
5) Loved it – one of the best

Now if I was seriously trying to judge this contest (or if you were) how many stories could I rate 5 and call “one of the best” out of the some 130 entries? Five? Ten? Fifteen? Surely not more.

And how many stories could I (or any reasonable judging reader) be expected to assign 1’s or 2’s to? Given the huge number of entries, their uneven quality, and my personal preferences, I can’t imagine not finding at least 30 or 40 that I honestly felt deserved 1 or 2.

Yet on just about every oggman thread I’ve ever seen we get people like miss kitten crying about their scores (no miss you’re not alone – hundreds have whined before you). Whose little emerald hearts are broken when their story rating falls from 4.53 to 4.50.

Authors who have no understanding that this huge score plummet was caused by someone clicking a star that meant he or she “liked it – keep writing”.

Authors who believe that 4.50 should be the absolute bottom of the range of scores they should ever receive for their brilliant work. Who don’t understand that to get 4.50 on a 50 vote story you have to get twenty-five 4’s (really liked it) and twenty-five 5’s (loved it) and nothing lower. Not one person who voted “hated it” or “didn’t like it” or even “liked it” from the thousands who read it. (I do understand that if the number of 5's was higher some scores could be under 4)

QUOTE Owlwhisper my contest entry got a troll vote after the contest closed. I had thought it was a 1 vote, but in reality it was a three, which shouldn't be construed as a malicious vote.

The quote above shows that even you owlwhisper can fall into this whining mode – you refer to a vote you got and thought was a 1 as a troll vote and as a malicious vote.

If it had been a 1 did it have to have been malicious? Couldn’t it more likely have been from someone who honestly “hated it”.

There are lots of stories I click open on this site that I honestly believe are 1’s or 2’s. Should we expect our readers never to express their opinions if they’re bad?

If so we could do away completely with the 1, 2 and 3 stars and only allow 4’s and 5’s. Mind you if your figures are correct (both above and in your 2 award winning analysis of LIT numbers) we’re pretty much already there in quite a few catagories. ​

[size=+2]james r scouries esq.[/size]
Multiple A.I.R. AWARD winner, MILLION SELLER,
Author of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story on LITEROTICA

 

[Guest]

[size=+2]the ASSOCIATION of INDEPENDENT READERS (A.I.R.) presents the[/size]

[size=+2]

A.I.R. 2010 Halloween Story Contest

[/size]


FINAL ENTRY LIST NUMBERS

During the A.I.R. Halloween Contest period sixteen hundred and eighty-three stories were submitted to the LITEROTICA site. Under A.I.R. Halloween Contest rules all were automatically entered in the contest (but subject to later disqualification for any number of reasons).

After detailed analysis of the submitted stories nine hundred and twenty-seven were disqualified (over five hundred of the disqualifications were multi chaptered stories, most of the rest were due to AHland trickery).

Which leaves an entry list totaling seven hundred and fifty-six.

I’d like to wish good luck to all authors who submitted a legitimate entry. Results should be announced this weekend.​

[size=+2]Gabrielle L.[/size]
President, A.I.R.
Secretery of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story clubs
Miami Beach, Florida

 

[scouries]

do i dare click open another "similar" story????

Are the people in the palace doing this on purpose? These are the stories thay are listed as similar stories to my latest.

Similar stories
• Laurie's Lesson
by Vertex
• Haunted Love
by Lord_Tom_Byron
• Mr. Maleus
by Nameless_Rose
• Enlightened By Darkness
by LunaEroticaMystica
• Uncle Fucks Drunk Niece Ch. 02
by KEVGOW

So I randomly clicked open one of them. By an AHer! It's a Non-Human story! Huh? How could this story be described as similar to my masterpiece. It boggles the mind.​

[size=+2]Enlightened By Darkness[/size]
byLunaticEroticaMystica© A Non-Human Story

~Enlightened by Darkness~: "One is lost in darkness and imprisoned by adversity and the mind. The other is a creature of darkness, bound by a curse. Both reaching for Light. Can they rise above and find liberation together?

This story was written for my dear friend, LadyNight. She inspired the story and is an inspiration in her own right. I am blessed by her friendship. I hope I did her dream (and the guy) justice.

I hope that others out there who have a disability or adversity, hold onto the hope and the knowledge that they deserve to be loved, as much as the next person. You have no limitations, but the ones you allow society to place upon you, and in turn place upon yourselves. YOU have the power!

Specials thanks again to Litfan10 for his time, critiquing, and editing skills. His advice was especially helpful when it came to making the language work in the dialogue from the past. You're awesome!

Thanks to my other friends who have read and offered words of support and encouragement!

Thank you for reading! Please VOTE and leave COMMENTS! Enjoy the story.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ciarnan watched her from outside, beneath a gnarled oak tree. She moved around the room with grace, poised on a chariot of silver....

WTF?

[size=+2]james r scouries esq.[/size]
Multiple A.I.R. AWARD winner, MILLION SELLER,
Author of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story on LITEROTICA

 

[Owlwhisper]

.....

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Yes Scouries, WTF!? The least you could have done was slam the actual story content. The intro? LOL

 

[EmeraldKitten]

oggman[/b] thread I’ve ever seen we get people like miss kitten crying about their scores (no miss you’re not alone – hundreds have whined before you). Whose little emerald hearts are broken when their story rating falls from 4.53 to 4.50.

Authors who have no understanding that this huge score plummet was caused by someone clicking a star that meant he or she “liked it – keep writing”.

*sigh* This is why I always have a hard time putting people on ignore.
I know they posted, and I wanna see what it says, LOL.
Wow. That didn't last 24 hours.

Let me clarify for ya, mister poop-mouth, I wasn't "whining", I was.. hmm, we'll call it venting.
And it wasn't that it went from a 4.53 to a 4.50. It's that it went from a 4.6something to a 4.50.
There's a big difference.

Ya know.. people might like you a little more if you weren't busy tearing others down. Tsk tsk.
Didn't your mother teach you anything?

Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. ~Colossians 3:12-13

I'm sorry you're so smart and hateful. I forgive you.

 

[sr71plt]

*Sigh* It would really save some grief to understand this. Yes, a single "I liked it" only vote can, in itself, send a rating crashing.

If you have a 4.6 rating with 20 votes and the next vote is a 3 ("I liked it"), the overall rating will go to 4.52.

If you have a 4.6 rating with 47 votes and the next 3 votes are 3s ("I liked it"), the overall rating will go to 4.5

It's just reality. But that's the best version of reality. In Lit. reality, in a contest, there are vote spoilers who are happy to zap with 1s and 2s just for the hell of it--and especially if the rating is high and the author mentions that in the forum. And then your 4.6 is no longer even hot--or warm--anymore. (a 4.6 rating with 49 votes will be taken to a 4.52 if the 50th vote is a 1. Just one 1.)

Get it?

 

[sr71plt]

P.S. Anyone pissed at you can make an extensive run at your list and knock ratings down significantly--just like someone did to some of my list not long after I posted the previous post.

There's no maturity test for posting on the Lit. forum.

Just another example of how tenuous and fleeting the ratings are here.

 

[EmeraldKitten]

*Sigh* It would really save some grief to understand this. Yes, a single "I liked it" only vote can, in itself, send a rating crashing.

If you have a 4.6 rating with 20 votes and the next vote is a 3 ("I liked it"), the overall rating will go to 4.52.

If you have a 4.6 rating with 47 votes and the next 3 votes are 3s ("I liked it"), the overall rating will go to 4.5

It's just reality. But that's the best version of reality. In Lit. reality, in a contest, there are vote spoilers who are happy to zap with 1s and 2s just for the hell of it--and especially if the rating is high and the author mentions that in the forum. And then your 4.6 is no longer even hot--or warm--anymore. (a 4.6 rating with 49 votes will be taken to a 4.52 if the 50th vote is a 1. Just one 1.)

Get it?

I'm assuming this was for me? At least partially.
The math of it all doesn't interest me.
I really dont 'care' what it took to take my story down. I didn't expect to have a 5 star story.
I just thought it was funny that it sat high for a while, then right at the end started going down.
That was the original point.
I had no idea one comment was going to be such an ordeal.
I wish now I never would have said a word. I just figured I wasn't the only one that kept a better score for a minute, to only have it come down significantly at the end.
This is a thread for support. That was what I was using it for. We're writers that submitted stories into a contest, and we've talked about said stories and said contest for the duration.
It was no big deal. Hence the 'lol's I put all over the place.
As far as my last post to scouries, the one that spawned your post I'd imagine, I was just giving him hell.
I really don't care what my score is. It doesn't really matter. We're all here to have fun. I didn't go cut myself because someone gave me an 'I liked it' score.

Get it?

:caning:

 

[favoritesgoddess]

FWIW, here's my cautionary tale.

I joined here in '03 thinking it would be fun to share some of what I've written and maybe win a little cash in a contest. I got caught up in the points and the scores and that first contest started my descent into madness. *cue ominous music*

I would look at my scores--really good ones, too--and despair that even though I'd have a 4.7-something, I was still five pages away from being anywhere near the top of the ratings pile in any category. I got to thinking that getting top scores was an impossible task for me because my writing just wasn't good enough.

Then I'd read stories with better scores than mine and I'd shake my fist at the heavens because my stories were so much better and it just wasn't fair, especially in contests that I should have won, dammit! In the end I was just so caught up with what other people thought of my stories that I stopped focusing on the stories themselves, and for me that proved to be a very bad thing.

Of course, my muse said, "Fuck this," and walked off in a huff. Luring him back has taken a long time. And he made me promise to remember that when it comes to our relationship, "winning" is not only not everything, it's not anything.

So while I'm not saying that getting caught up in the spirit of competition is automatically a bad thing, I just wanted to put my own experience out there just in case anyone was feeling like they needed a reality check. And if not, well, carry on then. Once more into the breach, dear friends...

 

[EmeraldKitten]

FWIW, here's my cautionary tale.

I joined here in '03 thinking it would be fun to share some of what I've written and maybe win a little cash in a contest. I got caught up in the points and the scores and that first contest started my descent into madness. *cue ominous music*

I would look at my scores--really good ones, too--and despair that even though I'd have a 4.7-something, I was still five pages away from being anywhere near the top of the ratings pile in any category. I got to thinking that getting top scores was an impossible task for me because my writing just wasn't good enough.

Then I'd read stories with better scores than mine and I'd shake my fist at the heavens because my stories were so much better and it just wasn't fair, especially in contests that I should have won, dammit! In the end I was just so caught up with what other people thought of my stories that I stopped focusing on the stories themselves, and for me that proved to be a very bad thing.

Of course, my muse said, "Fuck this," and walked off in a huff. Luring him back has taken a long time. And he made me promise to remember that when it comes to our relationship, "winning" is not only not everything, it's not anything.

So while I'm not saying that getting caught up in the spirit of competition is automatically a bad thing, I just wanted to put my own experience out there just in case anyone was feeling like they needed a reality check. And if not, well, carry on then. Once more into the breach, dear friends...

I've never been overly concerned with them. When I first started posting them, yeah, I wanted fantastic scores. Maybe I've mellowed with age, lol. Do I like good scores? Yup. Sure do. But if I write one that isn't that great, it's like, eh, well, that was a dud, lol. I've got a handful of them now. But if nothing else, the duds keep me writing, keep my brain working, and teaches me a lesson in 'what I should do better' and in humility. I'm not as wonderful as I thought I was.
Now I need to get typing one I started writing on a scrap piece of paper at work the other day. No idea where it's going, but it's a start, lol.

 

[scouries]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nyDrSJCYVOQ/SYpenofRFmI/AAAAAAAACaY/SMAJpwmtiW4/s400/Lunatic_Lander_2_by_kuksi.jpg
Yes Scouries, WTF!? The least you could have done was slam the actual story content. The intro? LOL

Although I did slightly alter your name my intention wasn’t to “slam your story”. In fact I didn’t read past the first two paragraphs. What I was trying to do was highlight the problems with the “Similar Stories” list. I originally clicked your story open because you were the only one of the five listed whose name I recognized (and only from this thread).

I did click open two more this morning and found another Non-Human one and an Erotic Horror one. How any of these three stories are any way “similar” to my Loving Wives one is beyond me.

But the big question is how, if these are typical results, does this serve the LITEROTICA reader? Sending a reader who’s looking for something similar to what he’s just read on a wild goose chase defeats the whole purpose of the list.

A note on your intro: When I posted it I didn’t really read it – I just used db’s tried and true C+P technique, copying the first bits to show which story had been compared as similar to mine. However, reading it this morning I would like to suggest that it might not be an ideal way to start a story.

It’s too long, has too much thanking, and the first sentence is especially off putting. It’s one of those lines you have to read two or three times to quite figure out what is being said. If it must be used save it for later – after you’ve got the reader interested in the story.

I’d also suggest that in future you don’t mention the lit man … for obvious reasons…​

[size=+2]james r scouries esq.[/size]
Multiple A.I.R. AWARD winner, MILLION SELLER,
Author of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story on LITEROTICA

 

[scouries]

*sigh* This is why I always have a hard time putting people on ignore. I know they posted, and I wanna see what it says, LOL. Wow. That didn't last 24 hours…

Let me clarify for ya, mister poop-mouth, I wasn't "whining", I was.. hmm, we'll call it venting.
And it wasn't that it went from a 4.53 to a 4.50. It's that it went from a 4.60 something to a 4.50.
There's a big difference…

Didn't your mother teach you anything?

According to my many detractors my mother taught me far too much!

Hopefully ace’s explanation demonstrated that going from 4.60+ to 4.50 isn’t a big deal. Which was my original point.

mister poop-mouth?????

I also had a hard time putting people on ignore. Then I was cured by our friends from texas and the upper penisula…
​

[size=+2]james r scouries esq.[/size]
Multiple A.I.R. AWARD winner, MILLION SELLER,
Author of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story on LITEROTICA

 

[harding]

Interesting

FWIW, here's my cautionary tale.

I joined here in '03 thinking it would be fun to share some of what I've written and maybe win a little cash in a contest. I got caught up in the points and the scores and that first contest started my descent into madness. *cue ominous music*

I would look at my scores--really good ones, too--and despair that even though I'd have a 4.7-something, I was still five pages away from being anywhere near the top of the ratings pile in any category. I got to thinking that getting top scores was an impossible task for me because my writing just wasn't good enough.

Then I'd read stories with better scores than mine and I'd shake my fist at the heavens because my stories were so much better and it just wasn't fair, especially in contests that I should have won, dammit! In the end I was just so caught up with what other people thought of my stories that I stopped focusing on the stories themselves, and for me that proved to be a very bad thing.

Of course, my muse said, "Fuck this," and walked off in a huff. Luring him back has taken a long time. And he made me promise to remember that when it comes to our relationship, "winning" is not only not everything, it's not anything.

So while I'm not saying that getting caught up in the spirit of competition is automatically a bad thing, I just wanted to put my own experience out there just in case anyone was feeling like they needed a reality check. And if not, well, carry on then. Once more into the breach, dear friends...

Yeah, well, you have saved me from myself, so thank you a lot.

I've been writing for a long, long time but only in the last year here, and find I'm starting to get paranoid about my scores, checking them daily if not more often.

I'll try the Zen approach, write the best I can and then kick the baby out the door and let it fend for itself.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm assuming this was for me? At least partially.
The math of it all doesn't interest me.

Yes, it was for you. You went ballistic over the statement of reality. Just because Scouries posted it, doesn't make it false.

But if you want to get your knickers into a knot and zip off on any true statement you don't want to hear . . .

In this case, it just gave him opportunity and incentive to dig in deeper on you and stir you up. But if you're enjoying that . . .

Taking this as a thread of support is fine. The support I'm trying to give--and, yes, on your original issue--is that you needn't go all ranty about your rating dropping a few points on the basis of just one or two votes--because that's reality and it happens to all of us. And you did get ranty about it--and stirred up Scouries when mostly all he did at the beginning was to point out that this is how the voting does, in fact, work here.

 

[scouries]

http://elkephant.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/articles-owlphysiology-behaviour-5.jpg …Wow, I'm flattered by that "even you". Let me reassure anyone reading this that I can whine quite loudly when the mood strikes. I am quite thoroughly human. Well, except for some plastic they put in to repair a hernia. And some fillings (had a lot of cavities as a child).

Speaking on behalf of my ego, When I write a story it never deserves a 1. When a story that generates mostly 4s and 5s gets a 1 I have to wonder why that reader chose to deviate so dramatically from other voters. And in my case those 1 votes usually don't leave an indication of their reasons.

That's an absurd question. So here you’re arguing for freedom of expression, and above you’re coming down on someone for expressing their disappointment about a vote they got. Logic (which I know has little sway in these discussions) suggests you're contradicting yourself.

As a scientist I dislike subjectivity, but good lord, this is writing porn, not doing mass spectroscopy. This should be subjective. So stop your own whining about people's reactions to voting. It's becoming meta-whining and will soon fizzle into evanescence. If we're lucky.

Sorry to hear about the stroke. Hopefully the recovery is rapid and complete.

As to receiving 1’s – I’m at the point where I expect to receive the full range of votes from readers (and welcome them). And in fact can easily acknowledge that my stories can “deserve a 1”. All a 1 says is that the reader who made the vote “hated” the story. If twenty or thirty thousand readers open your story it’s inconceivable that a good number of them won’t like it.

As a mathematician you understand that the best way for numbers (in this case rating numbers) to have credibility and to reflect the true opinion of readers is to have a large sample.

And perhaps that is what makes it easier for me to accept my ratings than it is for many of my confreres to accept theirs. With a sample size of 1000 or 2000 votes it’s very hard for me to convincingly argue about 1 votes or other nefarious AHland trickery. I know my ratings pretty accurately reflect my reader’s opinions. Perhaps my asking for votes, even negative ones, lowers my rating a bit from what it would be if I hadn’t asked them to vote. But I decided long ago that I’d prefer a large sample size to a small one.

Unfortunately for so many others, authors who scramble to receive much more than the bare minimum required to qualify (like miss kitten among others in this case), every vote below 5 is like a spear to the heart. Even when it comes from someone who liked the story (a 3 or 4 vote).

“Freedom of Expression” … “Contradicting Myself” … “Whining” … “Venting” … “Meta-Whining”?

This sounds like a smokescreen. The lady in question complained (whined … vented) about the plummet of her score. And you of all people, LITEROTICA’S greatest living mathematician, could have quite easily pointed out the obvious. You didn’t. I did. As did ace.

I believe that the LITEROTICA contest system is badly flawed. Simply perusing the list of submitters in the present contest can only highlight these problems. Where are LITEROTICA’S most popular writers? Why do they stay on the sidelines?

I’ll continue to make constructive criticisms. Not all will be embraced. So be it. If you’d like to characterize that as “meta-whining” go ahead.
​

[size=+2]james r scouries esq.[/size]
Multiple A.I.R. AWARD winner, MILLION SELLER,
Author of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story on LITEROTICA

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Scouries,

As this is only the second contest I've entered, I accept the helpful hints and criticisms. I do realize now that the intro was lengthy, but I wanted to give credit where credit was due. I also, didn't want to edit the story, with risk of losing something admist the contest. Maybe I'm not like most people, but I love reading the back jacket and dust covers of books to get a brief glimpse of what the story has in store for me. It's a tease. Perhaps that isn't the best for short works. I digress.

Please explain this statement: "What I was trying to do was highlight the problems with the “Similar Stories” list."?

 

[Owlwhisper]

.....

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

Owlwhisper: sending healing thoughts and vibes your way!

 

[Owlwhisper]

.....

 

[LunaEroticaMystica]

OwlWhisper:

I am sure it does. Having support and love makes all the difference in the world, in most situations, as does maintaining a positive attitude, when negativity threatens to suck you in. Which all too often, especially in regards to health issues, can easily happen. Take care of yourself!

 

[scouries]

http://www.europeanpaintings.com/img/gallery/74.jpg
Please explain this statement: "What I was trying to do was highlight the problems with the “Similar Stories” list."?

Is this a trick question? See post #555. You have seen the “Similar Stories” list at the end of each story haven’t you? Its stated purpose is to direct readers to other stories that are similar to the one they’ve just read. I was trying to suggest in my posts that it wasn’t working if the site was linking our two stories. Not that your story was bad.

When I clicked open my contest story yesterday (I was trying to build up VIEWS – mind you I still haven’t voted on it) and when I looked at the list of similar stories I saw the five I posted above (one was yours). To see for yourself click open page five of my contest story:

Brother Cucks Brother: Or Does He?
Who's the father of Caitlyn's baby? by scouries (10/21/10) 4.43 (745) 34 comments

And hey, while you’re there why not just take an extra second and click the 5 STAR ?

BTW here are the five that are “SIMILAR” to yours (my story didn’t make your list?)

Similar stories
• Hook Me Up
by DirtyGeisha  3.43
• Laurie's Lesson
by Vertex  3.10
• Haunted Love
by Lord_Tom_Byron  4.31  3
• Mr. Maleus
by Nameless_Rose  4.24  3
• Halloween.
by mokkelke  4.62  22

​

[size=+2]james r scouries esq.[/size]
Multiple A.I.R. AWARD winner, MILLION SELLER,
Author of the MOST COMMENTED on
and the MOST VOTED on story on LITEROTICA

 

[favoritesgoddess]

Do they have any tags in common? That might make the computer think they're similar.

ETA: answered my own question. No tags in common. Maybe it just randomly picks five other Halloween entries. I don't know.