Question For PYLs & Switches, Females Especially

[BiBunny]

I had no idea what to title this, so that's why y'all got this awkward, poorly worded title that doesn't actually explain what the thread's about. Sorry 'bout that.

If you've followed my threads and thoughts at all, you've probably realized that I'm a little bipolar with my sexual moods. When I'm in a bottomy, submissive space, I can't imagine being in a Toppy, dominant one, and vice-versa. I've run into some problems I've been struggling with, and I wondered if you lovely folks had any advice or suggestions.

So...I'm on a cycle where I want to try out Topping again. Topping, not being a Domme. I don't think I can be dominant for any length of time, and, besides, I'm still kind of messed up from the not-relationship I'm in and out of every two or three weeks lately, so I'm in no shape to take responsibility for another person, even if I wanted to, which I don't. (Longest sentence ever.)

Sooooo...Topping, not being dominant. I'm fantasizing about it pretty hardcore. The more I think about it, the more I realize I've never actually done what I wanted to do in a scene. I've always just sort of been the fetish delivery service to the person who was bottoming to me. And that, I think, is the reason all my attempts at it are short-lived. It seems more like a job than something I do for fun. (The fact that I have to deal with fetishes I'm not even remotely interested in for extended periods of time for work probably contributes to this, too.)

Anyway, because I've usually just been Fetish Barbie for everybody I've ever tied up, I have very little idea about what I actually like. So I decided, well, I'm gonna go figure out what I like! Sounds easy enough, right? No, not so much. The majority of "submissive men" on the BDSM sites are overwhelmingly annoying, clingy, needy, self-absorbed, drama queen do-me bottoms with interests that aren't compatible with mine.

I got the brilliant idea that I'd play with a switch friend of mine who's been whining that he can't find anyone to play with. And after he's been crossdressing in my living room the last few days in what's a fairly obvious ploy to try to get me to stop working and come play with him--I don't know much about what I'm into as a Top, but I do know crossdressing ain't it--and otherwise being a pushy pain in the ass about the whole play thing, I'm ready to pull my hair out.

I'm falling back into my same routines and patterns. I want to try out new things, but I end up just doing what the other person wants and hating every second of it. Then, I hate myself for giving in like that because, you know, that's not what I'm supposed to do. (Don't worry, this is neither a "Please pin a label on me" or an "All submissive men suck" thread. I'll get to the point in a minute.) Basically, what it boils down to is that I want to do it in theory, but it's just not quite working in practice.

I want to play when I want to, on my terms, and do the things I want to do. But I'm just folding and giving in to what others want. For example, Mr. Crossdresser whined about getting me to do his stupid makeup for him the other day, and I finally just logged out of work and went to go do it to shut him up, even though I didn't want to, and it, quite frankly, did nothing for me. Needless to say, I won't be playing with him again. (This is also not a thread on how to deal with him. I'm dealing with him by putting a stop to the play thing, LOL.)

So combine my tendency to cave to other people when they get pushy and then become annoyed and resentful with my own personal hangups about sex and sexual play, my residual angst over talking about shit I don't care about for work and not wanting to do shit I don't care about in my personal life, and my own inexperience and lack of self-esteem and confidence in my abilities. Now you've got a lot of shit to work through.

I want to do this. I don't wanna be a Domme. I just wanna do some kinky play on my own terms with a man or men I find attractive, and it's turned into a massive clusterfuck. Anybody got any suggestions?

*I'd give everybody a tl;dr version of this, but it's such a random mishmash of thoughts that I don't think I can.*

 

[switchbitch]

hi, bi BunnyI have sent you a p.m. message since the answers that I wanted to share with you were way too long, too involved, and to personal to public post. But in a nutshell I found a way round the same problem perhaps it will help you.

 

[BiBunny]

hi, bi BunnyI have sent you a p.m. message since the answers that I wanted to share with you were way too long, too involved, and to personal to public post. But in a nutshell I found a way round the same problem perhaps it will help you.

Thank you. Going to check now.

 

[rekane]

I am really new at this, so please overlook any stupid comments or questions.
Always giving in to what others want - isn't that a sub response? Even topping, you are embracing a bit of your sub self. Do you think it's a once-a-sub-always-a-sub kind of thing? I ask out of curiosity.
Would a "just say no" approach work during the times you feel pressured to do what a bottom wants? A firm no whining policy, perhaps? I don't know - I'm just throwing stuff out there.
Have you tried finding someone more vanilla who has a slight interest being topped? In some online play I have found some willing men who seemed to really respond to being topped (in my limited and inexperienced way). I just kind of did, said, what I wanted, and unleashed. I reiterate, however, that this was online play - certainly a whole different circumstance IRL.

 

[NomadLady]

I've got more than 20 years in age on you and I can sympathize....best advice, just be patient, you have a lot of years to learn what really "cranks your tractor" and in the meantime try it all....the experience is worth the effort.

Not to mention the "pratice" is so much fun!!!

 

[chy_girl]

Refresh my memory for me... You don't do any kind of munches or play party type things, do you?

And have you thought of trying to find a female partner to practice the Topping on?

 

[talismania]

Hi Bunny, your note struck a chord. When I first started exercising my dominant side (I'm mostly dominant, though I occasionally switch), my biggest obstacle was matching my turn-ons with those of the men I encountered. Vanilla sex is easy compared to trying to find a match among the many flavors of BDSM!

Being dominant is ALL about you. Acting out a man's fantasies of being dominated doesn't make a woman dominant--it's a different flavor of submission. That's why you're unhappy. You didn't get what you wanted, you just gave him what he wanted--which is great if you're feeling submissive but feels wrong when you wanted to be on top.

The key, really, is to find a man who craves being topped by your kink. We all want to meet our needs, so it helps to know what those are. Indulge your fantasies. Figure out your hot buttons and then follow that button. Is it bondage? Cock and ball torture? Sensual service? Someone to dust your Hummel collection? There are men out there who want whatever turns you on. So know what you want and you have a better chance of selecting wisely.

How to find these men is the tricky part. I found my perfect partner online, after reading a story he sent me. That story pushed all the right buttons. I totally wanted to do that with him. Eventually we did. But I have met men on airplanes, through work, and through friends who I felt might do the trick.

Meets, munches and organizations in your area are a good starting place. They're good, too, for talking with other women or men who can give you advice in person. Some of the best advice I've ever received has come from submissive men who feel protective of the women in their lifestyle.

Consider topping a woman. It's such a change from your cardinal orientation that doing so may actually be easier for you. I don't get turned on by women, but I do enjoy topping them.

Ask any man who is a prospect to tell you his submissive fantasy. Most will do so eagerly. I always listen, never judge. They're baring their souls. Often these men become good friends. But just because they tell me what lights their inner fire doesn't mean I'm the right mistress to bring it to reality. I'm a bondage maven, totally uninterested in--and unskilled in--toilet slaves or sissy boys. A few times, I've been able to point guys to friends of mine. But don't play with a man just to make him happy unless you have other reasons for wanting to do so.

 

[Netzach]

I had no idea what to title this, so that's why y'all got this awkward, poorly worded title that doesn't actually explain what the thread's about. Sorry 'bout that.

If you've followed my threads and thoughts at all, you've probably realized that I'm a little bipolar with my sexual moods. When I'm in a bottomy, submissive space, I can't imagine being in a Toppy, dominant one, and vice-versa. I've run into some problems I've been struggling with, and I wondered if you lovely folks had any advice or suggestions.

So...I'm on a cycle where I want to try out Topping again. Topping, not being a Domme. I don't think I can be dominant for any length of time, and, besides, I'm still kind of messed up from the not-relationship I'm in and out of every two or three weeks lately, so I'm in no shape to take responsibility for another person, even if I wanted to, which I don't. (Longest sentence ever.)

Sooooo...Topping, not being dominant. I'm fantasizing about it pretty hardcore. The more I think about it, the more I realize I've never actually done what I wanted to do in a scene. I've always just sort of been the fetish delivery service to the person who was bottoming to me. And that, I think, is the reason all my attempts at it are short-lived. It seems more like a job than something I do for fun. (The fact that I have to deal with fetishes I'm not even remotely interested in for extended periods of time for work probably contributes to this, too.)

Anyway, because I've usually just been Fetish Barbie for everybody I've ever tied up, I have very little idea about what I actually like. So I decided, well, I'm gonna go figure out what I like! Sounds easy enough, right? No, not so much. The majority of "submissive men" on the BDSM sites are overwhelmingly annoying, clingy, needy, self-absorbed, drama queen do-me bottoms with interests that aren't compatible with mine.

I got the brilliant idea that I'd play with a switch friend of mine who's been whining that he can't find anyone to play with. And after he's been crossdressing in my living room the last few days in what's a fairly obvious ploy to try to get me to stop working and come play with him--I don't know much about what I'm into as a Top, but I do know crossdressing ain't it--and otherwise being a pushy pain in the ass about the whole play thing, I'm ready to pull my hair out.

I'm falling back into my same routines and patterns. I want to try out new things, but I end up just doing what the other person wants and hating every second of it. Then, I hate myself for giving in like that because, you know, that's not what I'm supposed to do. (Don't worry, this is neither a "Please pin a label on me" or an "All submissive men suck" thread. I'll get to the point in a minute.) Basically, what it boils down to is that I want to do it in theory, but it's just not quite working in practice.

I want to play when I want to, on my terms, and do the things I want to do. But I'm just folding and giving in to what others want. For example, Mr. Crossdresser whined about getting me to do his stupid makeup for him the other day, and I finally just logged out of work and went to go do it to shut him up, even though I didn't want to, and it, quite frankly, did nothing for me. Needless to say, I won't be playing with him again. (This is also not a thread on how to deal with him. I'm dealing with him by putting a stop to the play thing, LOL.)

So combine my tendency to cave to other people when they get pushy and then become annoyed and resentful with my own personal hangups about sex and sexual play, my residual angst over talking about shit I don't care about for work and not wanting to do shit I don't care about in my personal life, and my own inexperience and lack of self-esteem and confidence in my abilities. Now you've got a lot of shit to work through.

I want to do this. I don't wanna be a Domme. I just wanna do some kinky play on my own terms with a man or men I find attractive, and it's turned into a massive clusterfuck. Anybody got any suggestions?

*I'd give everybody a tl;dr version of this, but it's such a random mishmash of thoughts that I don't think I can.*

Solutions for Me-play rather than them-play. Because I have to balance my Dominant orientation and the service top aspects of my life.

And for those going "isn't that submissive?" are you a submissive every time you let your friends pick the place to eat? Shouldn't you be boldly asserting yourself ALL the time no matter what the negotiated relationship between you and that doctor of yours?

Besides the OP isn't trying to be a Domme she's trying to assert herself sexually with people to get what she wants.

1. Know what you want before you play. I have a list of shit I think is hot and I update it regularly. I'm not kidding. If I know what I personally would do wih Daniel Craig tied to a chair like that in Casino Royale and I've actually written it down somewhere, you bet I can implement my own agenda when I've got someone else. I was also insecure about the no skills thing so I found people who were fetish pains in the ass about the skills I wanted to implement at home and I learned from them. They got "ooo I get to teach girl" out of it I got a skill.

2. Connect well enough that if someone throws you a curve (T likes to wear girl stuff but only when I put it on him and it's clearly my idea, how's that for polite?) you find it at least interesting if not fap-inducing because you have more info about someone you give a shit about across the board.

3. Girls. They're not as monolithic and obsessive at times about their ONE FUCKING FETISH and do pre-planning talks better - I've had great wicked fun with them in regard to T/b. However, I don't know if this is the easy answer - shock horror, some people don't prefer to top women and bottom to men - topping them just doesn't fire me up as much as topping men on average. I can enjoy being fucking mean to them but I need a lot more smoothing over of the issue (really? You're sure you want me to rub your face on my bathroom floor?) whereas with boys it's just organic.

4. Vanilla is a GOOD flavor of human interaction - I know we forget this all the time because M/s is SOOOOO the best.

Ok let's say you aren't filled with seething resentment about a guy like your friend who you can service top periodically - can't you be like "OK, here's the deal, we are 50.50. It's a strange number but we are not D/s. Every other interlude is about what you want and in every other you will have to treat what I want with all the enthusiasm of good polite reciprocity. Now shake on it if you like that deal.

 

[rekane]

And for those going "isn't that submissive?" are you a submissive every time you let your friends pick the place to eat? Shouldn't you be boldly asserting yourself ALL the time no matter what the negotiated relationship between you and that doctor of yours?

Besides the OP isn't trying to be a Domme she's trying to assert herself sexually with people to get what she wants.

Um, I am pretty much the only one who questioned whether this was sub behavior. As I stated in my first sentence, right off the bat, I am new at this.

Being new at this, I am still learning definitions and finding that there are many versions of definitions, roles and relationships. This is why I ask questions. I sincerely hope no one is offended by this.

Because I am seeking knowledge, I appreciate your instruction on the difference between Domme and assertion.

 

[Netzach]

Um, I am pretty much the only one who questioned whether this was sub behavior. As I stated in my first sentence, right off the bat, I am new at this.

Being new at this, I am still learning definitions and finding that there are many versions of definitions, roles and relationships. This is why I ask questions. I sincerely hope no one is offended by this.

Because I am seeking knowledge, I appreciate your instruction on the difference between Domme and assertion.

I didn't mean you post rather another, and I think you phrased it in a useful fashion for the OP. Sorry.

 

[CutieMouse]

I am really new at this, so please overlook any stupid comments or questions.
Always giving in to what others want - isn't that a sub response? Even topping, you are embracing a bit of your sub self. Do you think it's a once-a-sub-always-a-sub kind of thing? I ask out of curiosity.

Um, I am pretty much the only one who questioned whether this was sub behavior. As I stated in my first sentence, right off the bat, I am new at this.

Being new at this, I am still learning definitions and finding that there are many versions of definitions, roles and relationships. This is why I ask questions. I sincerely hope no one is offended by this.

Because I am seeking knowledge, I appreciate your instruction on the difference between Domme and assertion.

I doubt anyone is offended; questions help us learn.

I would argue that giving in to what others want, especially when it leaves a person feeling frustrated, used, unhappy, stressed, angry, etc is not an issue of being a "submissive response". *To me* that's an issue of having and knowing how to express/enforce healthy boundaries.

Bunny love you're going to probably be annoyed as hell with me for saying this, but I suspect you'll have more success with playing your way/exploring your way/enjoying yourself your way if you work on the healthy boundaries thing (I am totally avoiding the dreaded co-dependent catch phrase BTW ).

Example: if you're working and cross dresser boy is getting on your nerves about the makeup - tell him it's time to go home, instead of caving and doing his makeup. By doing the makeup you're just feeding the bad behavior, dooming yourself for a repeat performance.

Don't worry if your actions or interests are submissive, switchy, or Top - worry about what you want, and don't be ashamed to get it.

 

[the captians wench]

*has only read the op*

Bunny,

You know I identify as a service oriented sub, but I do have my moment when I crave to be on the other side. It only happens about 4-5 times a year, and mostly I just want to be a sadistic bitch and really hurt some one. I've had simular problems when it comes to male pyls. So far every one I've played with has had this idea about what they want, and that's what they want, and fuck what I want, so I get the attitude "why bother?" and stop offering sugestions, go with what they want, and other than my personal service needs, I really don't get much out of it. What frusterates me is when that same person will shoot down every idea I give, of what I would like to do, because it doesn't fit their idea of what they think I should want, and then get upset when I stop offering sugestions.

So how do you figure out what you want, when you haven't had a chance to explore what you want on your own terms? Fuck if I know. If ya figure it out, let me know kay? *giggles*

 

[Stella_Omega]

Wanting to run a scene your way and not your sub's way seems to me to be the definition of dominant.

Just saying.

 

[Netzach]

Yes.

Bunny - how would you feel about consensus you can both be stoked about?

I have kind of taken this on as my minimum whenever possible.

 

[ImOnIt]

Here is a tldr for you

A problem is that

"submissive men" on the BDSM sites are overwhelmingly (not submissive).

This doesn't fit with what you want

I realize I've never actually done what I wanted to do in a scene.
I want to do this. . I just wanna do some kinky play on my own terms with a man or men I find attractive.

I have never put up with prancing whinging crossdressers begging for makeup while I'm trying to make a living. You don't need to either.

 

[BiBunny]

Wow, so many awesome responses! And here I was worried that I rambled on and on without actually making my point, but y'all figured me out, anyway.

I do intend to respond to everyone individually, but I'm about to eat and shower right this second. When I get back and go to work, I'll come reply in a more in-depth way.

Thanks, everybody!

 

[CutieMouse]

I have never put up with prancing whinging crossdressers begging for makeup while I'm trying to make a living. You don't need to either.

No shit.

Wanna hear a funny, Bunny? A guy answered my [pretty mainstream] personals ad last night, and after a few emails confessed he had a foot/shoe/boot fetish. So I respond that that isn't a terribly uncommon fetish as far as fetishes go, but unfortunately [for him] I've dated fetish boys before and have made the decision to not do so in the future.

He came back with the suggestion that maybe I would enjoy it if I was holding his leash [attached to his collar], too. He could cook me dinner? Play piano?

 

[switchbitch]

I've got more than 20 years in age on you and I can sympathize....best advice, just be patient, you have a lot of years to learn what really "cranks your tractor" and in the meantime try it all....the experience is worth the effort.

Not to mention the "pratice" is so much fun!!!

beautifully said

 

[BiBunny]

Ok, going to have several posts back-to-back here, but I didn't want to multi-quote everybody into one long-ass post.

I am really new at this, so please overlook any stupid comments or questions.
Always giving in to what others want - isn't that a sub response? Even topping, you are embracing a bit of your sub self. Do you think it's a once-a-sub-always-a-sub kind of thing? I ask out of curiosity.
Would a "just say no" approach work during the times you feel pressured to do what a bottom wants? A firm no whining policy, perhaps? I don't know - I'm just throwing stuff out there.
Have you tried finding someone more vanilla who has a slight interest being topped? In some online play I have found some willing men who seemed to really respond to being topped (in my limited and inexperienced way). I just kind of did, said, what I wanted, and unleashed. I reiterate, however, that this was online play - certainly a whole different circumstance IRL.

Well...I don't know if I'd call it submissive. (I think CutieMouse covers this in her response, too.) I've tried being submissive. I've played the uber-slave role. But I still wasn't happy. I think it's more a matter of finding it easier to just let people take advantage of me than to take the harder road of standing up for myself. I've led a long life of being kicked in the teeth every time I ever tried to assert myself, and I've got a long and uphill battle if I want to change it. And I do want to change it. I just think it's going to take time.

As far as finding a vanilla person who is either open-minded or for sure wants to try it out, I've definitely been considering that. I think I'm actually going to give that a shot.

I've got more than 20 years in age on you and I can sympathize....best advice, just be patient, you have a lot of years to learn what really "cranks your tractor" and in the meantime try it all....the experience is worth the effort.

Not to mention the "pratice" is so much fun!!!

The problem is finding someone to try it all out on that doesn't make me want to stab him.

Refresh my memory for me... You don't do any kind of munches or play party type things, do you?

And have you thought of trying to find a female partner to practice the Topping on?

I tried the munch thing, but I don't fit it with the one that's local. There are a bunch of people who like to wear their "weirdness" on their shoulders. It's kind of a "look at me, aren't I so cool and edgy for being Mathter/thlave and wearing goth clothes and listening to heavy metal" vibe. They're all pretty condescending toward the switchy girl into age play and S&M who wears normal clothes, listens to pop and country music, and is at least 20 years younger than most of them. I can't stand pretentious people, especially when they're obviously trying to pretend they're so much smarter than me.

I've thought about the female partner thing, too, but I'm even pickier about the girls I play with than the boys I play with, so it's kinda hard. I'm not opposed to it, though, should the right person come along.

Hi Bunny, your note struck a chord. When I first started exercising my dominant side (I'm mostly dominant, though I occasionally switch), my biggest obstacle was matching my turn-ons with those of the men I encountered. Vanilla sex is easy compared to trying to find a match among the many flavors of BDSM!

Being dominant is ALL about you. Acting out a man's fantasies of being dominated doesn't make a woman dominant--it's a different flavor of submission. That's why you're unhappy. You didn't get what you wanted, you just gave him what he wanted--which is great if you're feeling submissive but feels wrong when you wanted to be on top.

The key, really, is to find a man who craves being topped by your kink. We all want to meet our needs, so it helps to know what those are. Indulge your fantasies. Figure out your hot buttons and then follow that button. Is it bondage? Cock and ball torture? Sensual service? Someone to dust your Hummel collection? There are men out there who want whatever turns you on. So know what you want and you have a better chance of selecting wisely.

How to find these men is the tricky part. I found my perfect partner online, after reading a story he sent me. That story pushed all the right buttons. I totally wanted to do that with him. Eventually we did. But I have met men on airplanes, through work, and through friends who I felt might do the trick.

Meets, munches and organizations in your area are a good starting place. They're good, too, for talking with other women or men who can give you advice in person. Some of the best advice I've ever received has come from submissive men who feel protective of the women in their lifestyle.

Consider topping a woman. It's such a change from your cardinal orientation that doing so may actually be easier for you. I don't get turned on by women, but I do enjoy topping them.

Ask any man who is a prospect to tell you his submissive fantasy. Most will do so eagerly. I always listen, never judge. They're baring their souls. Often these men become good friends. But just because they tell me what lights their inner fire doesn't mean I'm the right mistress to bring it to reality. I'm a bondage maven, totally uninterested in--and unskilled in--toilet slaves or sissy boys. A few times, I've been able to point guys to friends of mine. But don't play with a man just to make him happy unless you have other reasons for wanting to do so.

This is all very good advice. I definitely have things I want to try, but, like you said, it's hard finding the compatible people. I actually know a lady who runs a female domination group a couple hours north of me. I don't know if that's my thing, either, but the local group damn sure isn't. I may talk to her about it and see what happens.

 

[BiBunny]

Solutions for Me-play rather than them-play. Because I have to balance my Dominant orientation and the service top aspects of my life.

And for those going "isn't that submissive?" are you a submissive every time you let your friends pick the place to eat? Shouldn't you be boldly asserting yourself ALL the time no matter what the negotiated relationship between you and that doctor of yours?

Besides the OP isn't trying to be a Domme she's trying to assert herself sexually with people to get what she wants.

1. Know what you want before you play. I have a list of shit I think is hot and I update it regularly. I'm not kidding. If I know what I personally would do wih Daniel Craig tied to a chair like that in Casino Royale and I've actually written it down somewhere, you bet I can implement my own agenda when I've got someone else. I was also insecure about the no skills thing so I found people who were fetish pains in the ass about the skills I wanted to implement at home and I learned from them. They got "ooo I get to teach girl" out of it I got a skill.

2. Connect well enough that if someone throws you a curve (T likes to wear girl stuff but only when I put it on him and it's clearly my idea, how's that for polite?) you find it at least interesting if not fap-inducing because you have more info about someone you give a shit about across the board.

3. Girls. They're not as monolithic and obsessive at times about their ONE FUCKING FETISH and do pre-planning talks better - I've had great wicked fun with them in regard to T/b. However, I don't know if this is the easy answer - shock horror, some people don't prefer to top women and bottom to men - topping them just doesn't fire me up as much as topping men on average. I can enjoy being fucking mean to them but I need a lot more smoothing over of the issue (really? You're sure you want me to rub your face on my bathroom floor?) whereas with boys it's just organic.

4. Vanilla is a GOOD flavor of human interaction - I know we forget this all the time because M/s is SOOOOO the best.

Ok let's say you aren't filled with seething resentment about a guy like your friend who you can service top periodically - can't you be like "OK, here's the deal, we are 50.50. It's a strange number but we are not D/s. Every other interlude is about what you want and in every other you will have to treat what I want with all the enthusiasm of good polite reciprocity. Now shake on it if you like that deal.

I was hoping you'd come along.

1.) The list thing is a fabulous idea. I have a running list of things in my head I want to do, but usually, when I get someone tied up, my mind goes blank. Maybe if I physically wrote something down, so that I could actually consult it when I need to, it would help.

2.) Yep. Gotta work on this. I'm kind of picky about the kinds of men I'm interested in/attracted to. (From the things I've heard you say about T, I think he's the kind of guy who'd fit into that category. VERY hard to find.) I end up telling myself I'm being too picky, and then I try to lower my standards a bit and end up with an asshat. Must stop doing that.

3.) Yep, still open to girls. Way too picky about them, too, but still open to them. Will absolutely go that way if I find someone who interests me.

4.) This should've been totally self-evident, but it wasn't. *Facepalm* Totally going to do it when I find the mythical bisexual butch "real man" type switch guy who gets me going.

I doubt anyone is offended; questions help us learn.

I would argue that giving in to what others want, especially when it leaves a person feeling frustrated, used, unhappy, stressed, angry, etc is not an issue of being a "submissive response". *To me* that's an issue of having and knowing how to express/enforce healthy boundaries.

Bunny love you're going to probably be annoyed as hell with me for saying this, but I suspect you'll have more success with playing your way/exploring your way/enjoying yourself your way if you work on the healthy boundaries thing (I am totally avoiding the dreaded co-dependent catch phrase BTW ).

Example: if you're working and cross dresser boy is getting on your nerves about the makeup - tell him it's time to go home, instead of caving and doing his makeup. By doing the makeup you're just feeding the bad behavior, dooming yourself for a repeat performance.

Don't worry if your actions or interests are submissive, switchy, or Top - worry about what you want, and don't be ashamed to get it.

You didn't annoy me at all. In fact, you didn't say anything I haven't already thought of myself. I have years and years and years of "Be nice to everybody and do what they want, no matter how unreasonable they might be" ingrained in me, and I need to get rid of it. It does nothing but build resentment and invite people to take advantage of me. (And I have no doubt that I'm not training people to take advantage of me.) Then, I end up going nuclear on people for seemingly small things because there is so much resentment inside. And that's not fair to me or anybody else.

However...easier said than done. I'm trying to work on it. This whole trying to find someone who likes when I do what I want thing is actually a very tiny baby step in the whole process.

*has only read the op*

Bunny,

You know I identify as a service oriented sub, but I do have my moment when I crave to be on the other side. It only happens about 4-5 times a year, and mostly I just want to be a sadistic bitch and really hurt some one. I've had simular problems when it comes to male pyls. So far every one I've played with has had this idea about what they want, and that's what they want, and fuck what I want, so I get the attitude "why bother?" and stop offering sugestions, go with what they want, and other than my personal service needs, I really don't get much out of it. What frusterates me is when that same person will shoot down every idea I give, of what I would like to do, because it doesn't fit their idea of what they think I should want, and then get upset when I stop offering sugestions.

So how do you figure out what you want, when you haven't had a chance to explore what you want on your own terms? Fuck if I know. If ya figure it out, let me know kay? *giggles*

I could've written this myself. I do what they want to get them to shut the hell up and leave me alone, rather than just saying, "Shut the hell up and leave me alone." It's conditioned negative reinforcement, escape/avoidance behavior, pure and simple.

I also agree with your last paragraph. How exactly are you supposed to figure out what you want if you haven't been able to try things out to see what you like because some bozo won't shut up whining about what HE wants?

Wanting to run a scene your way and not your sub's way seems to me to be the definition of dominant.

Just saying.

Heh. Possibly. I have way too much baggage to foist upon anyone at the moment, though, so for now I'm sticking to being a bedroom sadist.

Yes.

Bunny - how would you feel about consensus you can both be stoked about?

I have kind of taken this on as my minimum whenever possible.

I'd be perfectly ok with this. I just need to learn how to say, "No, actually, I'm not into that," and stick to it. I can usually say it once, but if they keep pushing it, I end up going along with it.

Must. Learn. How. Not. To. Cave.

Here is a tldr for you

A problem is that



This doesn't fit with what you want





I have never put up with prancing whinging crossdressers begging for makeup while I'm trying to make a living. You don't need to either.

Good tldr.

Well, I got rid of said whiny crossdresser today. And I don't intend to play with him again. But while that gets rid of the immediate problem, it doesn't solve the underlying one, and that's what I really need to work on.

No shit.

Wanna hear a funny, Bunny? A guy answered my [pretty mainstream] personals ad last night, and after a few emails confessed he had a foot/shoe/boot fetish. So I respond that that isn't a terribly uncommon fetish as far as fetishes go, but unfortunately [for him] I've dated fetish boys before and have made the decision to not do so in the future.

He came back with the suggestion that maybe I would enjoy it if I was holding his leash [attached to his collar], too. He could cook me dinner? Play piano?

Why am I not surprised? I hate people sometimes.

 

[BiBunny]

Also, I wanted to say that I know my own lack of boundaries, inability to really talk about things, personal sexual hangups that I'm only just now realizing I have, and frustration with my job definitely contribute to the problems I'm having.

I just wanna say thanks a zillion times for y'all's help. Like, this seriously helped me to the point that when some dude messaged me on CM earlier and tried to talk about sexual fantasies twice, I blew him off. He did it once, and I told him that it never boded well when men start blabbing their sexual fantasies to strangers. He apologized, and I said, "No problem." Then, in the next email, he asked me what I wanted to do. I banged my head against the wall for a minute and then told him that I thought we were looking for two totally different things and wished him luck in his search.

Normally, I'd have either ignored him completely and said something bitchy if he kept pestering me or tried to continue talking to see if it'd get better. So yay for y'all for helping me and yay for me slowly developing a backbone....

 

[Netzach]

Also, I wanted to say that I know my own lack of boundaries, inability to really talk about things, personal sexual hangups that I'm only just now realizing I have, and frustration with my job definitely contribute to the problems I'm having.

I just wanna say thanks a zillion times for y'all's help. Like, this seriously helped me to the point that when some dude messaged me on CM earlier and tried to talk about sexual fantasies twice, I blew him off. He did it once, and I told him that it never boded well when men start blabbing their sexual fantasies to strangers. He apologized, and I said, "No problem." Then, in the next email, he asked me what I wanted to do. I banged my head against the wall for a minute and then told him that I thought we were looking for two totally different things and wished him luck in his search.

Normally, I'd have either ignored him completely and said something bitchy if he kept pestering me or tried to continue talking to see if it'd get better. So yay for y'all for helping me and yay for me slowly developing a backbone....

One other thought I had -

You might actually benefit from filling out a checklist - one of the big massive ones - with yourself.

My mind still goes blank when I have M tied up. I poke and stroke a bit see what he starts begging for and if I like it a lot I do it if I don't I don't. Just this week he's all "ooo the erostek please" and the erostek is in a drawer and I haven't read the manual in 60 years and I don't even know about the batteries and I was like "no, we have to check it and re-familiarize with it while your dick is soft later this week" instead of trying to fumble. I felt bad about it - for a second and then wound a shoelace around his junk and did - ahem what I wanted.

And you might benefit from using a checklist, one of the big massive ones, with a date that you've decided you kinda like when you come across one. Then you can both hunt down your shared "5 out of 5's" and start there. Leave all the rest for later just see if there's stuff that both people are like "aw fuck yeah" about.

 

[chy_girl]

I tried the munch thing, but I don't fit it with the one that's local. There are a bunch of people who like to wear their "weirdness" on their shoulders. It's kind of a "look at me, aren't I so cool and edgy for being Mathter/thlave and wearing goth clothes and listening to heavy metal" vibe. They're all pretty condescending toward the switchy girl into age play and S&M who wears normal clothes, listens to pop and country music, and is at least 20 years younger than most of them. I can't stand pretentious people, especially when they're obviously trying to pretend they're so much smarter than me.

I've thought about the female partner thing, too, but I'm even pickier about the girls I play with than the boys I play with, so it's kinda hard. I'm not opposed to it, though, should the right person come along.

Bunny, dear, some day you have got to come out for a visit. Maybe come out for Kinkfest and call it a work related expense on your taxes...