Growing Up.

[Stella_Omega]

In another thread, Nomad Lady admitted that she kind of liked having the upper hand over a subby man. The scene she described, she was something of a 'service' Domme, and she says she enjoyed it, he loved it to bits, and gave her a big thumbs up...

I see this as a natural progression, myself. I began topping pretty early because I could not figure out how to get the sensations I wanted from the people around me-- but I knew how to lay them on, so I played out my bottoming desires on other bottoms. Later I grew into the notion that I really needed to control someone else-- because they were someone else, if you know what I mean, not because they were my avatar.

The way I see it, both of us have grown, or are growing, into our power. It seems like such a natural progression, even though some of the details differ between us.

What do you think? Could that become a rite of passage for many pyls-- becoming PYLS when the time is right?

 

[sb2009]

hmmmm....I've been thinking about this too.

I notice some leanings in myself towards enjoying being in charge, at least sexually. Maybe even five years ago that wouldn't even have occured to me, but timing and some interesting conversations and experiences have led me to think that there is a lot to me than I suspected in that arena.

Who knows, though, it may be more of a Service Top type thing....it's all muddled in my head right now.

 

[JMohegan]

For god's sake, people!!! Quit inciting mutiny in the ranks!!!

 

[ecstaticsub]

I tried my hand at topping earlier in the year with a female submissive Daddy and I had met. It was fun to be able to flog her the way I would enjoy being flogged--in a symmetrical, almost massage type of way. I know she enjoyed it very much.

However, it didn't do much for me. I didn't find it erotic at all. It was fun just because the three of us were getting along really well and were very playful. But it had nothing to do with submission. I am into this TTTWD for the D/s part. Topping and bottoming are really boring to me (or borderline abusive) if the D/s component is not present.

To be honest i also thought it would be a good way to sort of top from the bottom to show my Daddy the way I wanted to be flogged. Instead I came to realize in reality I like the way he does it better--most likely again because I get into the submitting to what he wants part of it rather than being a bottom.

I don't see myself ever being a PYL --not a Dominant nor a Top other then maybe occasionally in a playful way.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Like es, I don't think I could be dominant, but that might change over time.

I'd be curious to try topping though, the scientific brain likes the cause and effect. I imagine though, that that would be what I would get out of it, that, and providing a wanted experience to someone's satisfaction.

 

[JMohegan]

With a fond nod to a very dear friend, my serious contribution to the thread is this.

 

[eastern sun]

Fully embracing my submissiveness, I was able to grow into my power. But it wasn't expressed sexually. So though I agree that powerlessness is a route to better understanding and exercising power, I don't think the move from pyl to PYL is an inevitable outcome. (And I certainly don't believe that all PYL's have "grown-up.")

 

[chy_girl]

While I may have enjoyed watching my Mistress' reactions during a recent service topping involving an electreat, it ended there and fucked with my head.

I can fire cup her, massage her, aid in taking care of her physical needs, sexually arouse or please her, but I cannot be comfortable causing her pain. Even if it's a pain she *likes.*

Hell, when I had to take off a corn while giving her a pedicure I damned near cried freely. And that was after she insisted it didn't hurt.

No... It takes a special kind of desire and a very specific kind of person for me to even enjoy the thought of inflicting pain upon another human. It's so specific and so special it falls far, far outside the realm of SSC and directly into the criminal charges category so I just leave that part alone lest a clean record gets a spot.

 

[BiBunny]

My "growing up" moment was fairly recently. I realized that I am neither submissive, slave, dominant, or even a switch in reality because switch seems to imply that I could be either dominant or submissive.

I'm a sadomasochist who's often a little girl. I can act very, very submissively--even slave-like--toward someone I love. But I've discovered that too much sacrificing of myself makes me angry and resentful. It doesn't bring me peace or make me happy. It just dredges up old hurts and turns me into a person I don't like. On the other hand, while I like to run the show and get my way, I also do not want the responsibility of being the dominant party in a relationship.

In time, I may become comfortable with a different label. It took me a long time to admit to myself that trying to force myself to be what other people wanted me to be is not healthy for me. So for now, I'm sticking with "sadomasochistic little girl who needs a good bit of give and take in both directions."

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I think I'm not liking the notion that being a pyl is just a stepping stone, an apprenticeship, if you will, before the real 'power.'

Yes, I know it wasn't a generalised statement, but that's where my thoughts headed.

 

[chy_girl]

I think I'm not liking the notion that being a pyl is just a stepping stone, an apprenticeship, if you will, before the real 'power.'

Yes, I know it wasn't a generalised statement, but that's where my thoughts headed.

i've heard a lot of people go on about that theory in a far more pointed way than stella did.

where it may be true for some, and while it may be a common progression for many, i don't see it as a universal truth. Some simply are not wired to be dominanat unless they absolutly have to, while others could be comatose and be blatently dominant.

just my imo...

 

[VelvetSin]

The best mind fuck I've experienced to date was when B told me in his Toppy way that he wanted me to Top for him one night. He learned years ago as a bottom, switched for a short while, then found his real stride as a Top and stayed that way, but thought maybe I had it in me to switch (or so he said). I'm still figuring out TTWD but Topping my Top as a Toppy instruction? It wasn't done in a jerky "I'm better at this than you" way, it ended up being a silly game, but it messed with my head a bit all the same.

Maybe a long while from now it'll be a curiosity, but I was so very, very happy and relieved when he switched mid-session, took the flogger from me, and proceeded to show exactly how the thing should be used.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I would love to know people's ages (in a general way) along with their opinions, I want to see if the opinions tend to change with age. I know mine did!

I apologise for the sloppy sloppy opening post. We don't call it "power exchange" for no reason, of course, and I did make it sound as if a pyl has none. What i was thinking of was that a pyl hands their power over to a PYL, and that some people might become comfortable holding their own power. And that's a bit like" growing up" in certain instances.

NomadLady was saying, in that other thread that, as sub(women) get older, they may find that the Doms are bypassing them in favor of the young pretty things. This is true in the vanilla world, as well, as my hetero and over-50 sister can attest.

And a certain someone chimed in with one of his typically shitty opinion pieces...

My solution is to bypass the need for men. They don't want you? You don't need them. Sadly most women can't seem to make the jump to lesbianism. So that's out.

BUT, in BDSM, there is another route. Older women seem to be very much in the forefront as Dommes.

Annnd... i don't think this post is any more coherent than the first one!

 

[KoPilot]

Oh wow. I had written up a post for this and I somehow managed to put it in a completely different thread again.

How many times have I done this now? -facepalm-

 

[JMohegan]

I would love to know people's ages (in a general way) along with their opinions, I want to see if the opinions tend to change with age. I know mine did!

I apologise for the sloppy sloppy opening post. We don't call it "power exchange" for no reason, of course, and I did make it sound as if a pyl has none. What i was thinking of was that a pyl hands their power over to a PYL, and that some people might become comfortable holding their own power. And that's a bit like" growing up" in certain instances.

NomadLady was saying, in that other thread that, as sub(women) get older, they may find that the Doms are bypassing them in favor of the young pretty things. This is true in the vanilla world, as well, as my hetero and over-50 sister can attest.

And a certain someone chimed in with one of his typically shitty opinion pieces...

My solution is to bypass the need for men. They don't want you? You don't need them. Sadly most women can't seem to make the jump to lesbianism. So that's out.

BUT, in BDSM, there is another route. Older women seem to be very much in the forefront as Dommes.

Annnd... i don't think this post is any more coherent than the first one!

The woman whose story I linked to in post 6 above was in her mid to late 20s when she started to switch. She was very lovely, in every possible sense of the word.

She's still lovely, more than 2 decades later.

Intangible discussions about personal power, or growing into one's power or some such thing, are always tough for me to process. So I'm not really sure if what I write about her will fit your image of what happens.

But I would say that, for her, what happened was that she expanded her own personal perspective on what it meant to be "pleasing." She got tremendous pleasure from bottoming, and started wondering if she could give that same type of physical pleasure back in return. Once that seed was planted in her mind, she desperately wanted to try.

She never abandoned the deep need to be pleasing to those she cares about - a need that made her a spectacular submissive, by the way. She just came to realize that she wanted to, and could, be pleasing on her own terms.

 

[NomadLady]

I would love to know people's ages (in a general way) along with their opinions, I want to see if the opinions tend to change with age. I know mine did!

I apologise for the sloppy sloppy opening post. We don't call it "power exchange" for no reason, of course, and I did make it sound as if a pyl has none. What i was thinking of was that a pyl hands their power over to a PYL, and that some people might become comfortable holding their own power. And that's a bit like" growing up" in certain instances.

NomadLady was saying, in that other thread that, as sub(women) get older, they may find that the Doms are bypassing them in favor of the young pretty things. This is true in the vanilla world, as well, as my hetero and over-50 sister can attest.

And a certain someone chimed in with one of his typically shitty opinion pieces...

My solution is to bypass the need for men. They don't want you? You don't need them. Sadly most women can't seem to make the jump to lesbianism. So that's out.

BUT, in BDSM, there is another route. Older women seem to be very much in the forefront as Dommes.

Annnd... i don't think this post is any more coherent than the first one!

I do get told quite a bit that I don't look my age (47) but I do find that men my age and a little older do seem to prefer 20-30 year old subs. However, having two Dom friends that do this I also find that they get bored with these younger subs easily and they get very frustrated when these young ladies just "think" they want to be subs and then safeword or scream at the first lick of a switch or pinch of a nipple clamp. I should add my first sub experience was in 1998.

Yes, finding a male submissive was fun and exciting and there is NO doubt that my experiences as a sub enabled me to have a better perspective on the entire process. Luckily...I have my own toys as well so I was "equipped" for the task and was able to provide this sub with exactly what he asked for to his (and suprisingly my own) satisfaction.

Thanks Stella!!! enjoying this thread!!!!

 

[ecstaticsub]

I would love to know people's ages (in a general way) along with their opinions, I want to see if the opinions tend to change with age. I know mine did!

I am in my mid 40's. I have only been involved in D/s for a little more than 5 yrs. Maybe I'll feel different in 5 or 10 years? (I doubt it)

 

[graceanne]

For god's sake, people!!! Quit inciting mutiny in the ranks!!!

LOL

Ok, my issue with this is that if becoming a PYL is 'growing up' are you saying that being a pyl is immature, or lesser than? I mean, I know you're not, but that's what I'm reading. I know that for some that they go from pyl to PYL and that's okay, and groovy, but I don't think that's true for everyone nor should it be. I do not see anything wrong with being a sub, any more than I see there being anything wrong with being a dominant. Would it be considered 'growing up' if someone went from being a PYL to a pyl? Am I a making any sense? Things that make you go 'hm'.

As to the 'everyone is a switch thing', I disagree. Quite honestly, K would LOVE for me to be just a BIT more dominant when it comes to sex, so I've tried. And I mean I've REALLY tried. I've done everything, even to the point of getting really drunk once to try and dampen my inhibitions. It did not work. Beyond that, that belief would go the other way. If everyone is a switch, why not PYL's? I know quite a few PYL's who've left relationship, where their bottom decided s/he wanted to top, because they're not bottoms. I don't think they didn't love their pyl's, it's just a matter of they can't switch even for love. I'd be willing to agree that a lot of people are really switches, but I don't think that everyone is.

 

[graceanne]

I would love to know people's ages (in a general way) along with their opinions, I want to see if the opinions tend to change with age. I know mine did!

I'm 32.

 

[Bandit58]

I'm soon to be 52, came to D/s rather late (45).

I don't have a dominant bone in my body Sure I can take charge out of the bedroom when and if it's necessary, but ask me to swing a flogger or a cane and it's just not going to happen

I'm sure the second anyone jumped or squealed or yelled I'd be all "Oh gosh I'm sooooo sorry!!!"

 

[chy_girl]

I just turned 32, also.

 

[Soumis]

I think that moving from pyl to PYL can be a natural growth. It's easier to get in on the, "ground floor," so to speak. A pyl doesn't need as much experience or knowledge of bdsm, nor do they provide the props much of the time.

Granted, I think the opposite move can be just as natural. Control can be difficult for some people to relinquish and faced with a new environment they might feel more comfortable being in control until they understand the situation.

To add further editorial, I will report a tiny preference for those who have been a pyl position prior to taking the reins. It's reassuring on an experience level. I like to know that a PYL has more than a theoretical understanding of what they're dishing out.

I'm 24.

 

[seela]

LOL

Ok, my issue with this is that if becoming a PYL is 'growing up' are you saying that being a pyl is immature, or lesser than? I mean, I know you're not, but that's what I'm reading. I know that for some that they go from pyl to PYL and that's okay, and groovy, but I don't think that's true for everyone nor should it be. I do not see anything wrong with being a sub, any more than I see there being anything wrong with being a dominant. Would it be considered 'growing up' if someone went from being a PYL to a pyl? Am I a making any sense? Things that make you go 'hm'.

This is what I feel is often neglected. The growing up metaphore seems to be used of pyls going to PYLs, but if it happens the other way around I've never heard anyone talk about growing up.

In a way I agree that it's good for the PYLs to know what they're doing, but I can't really see it as bottoming, if they're getting someone to swing a flogger at them a couple of times so that they can see how it feels or if they get needles stuck on them for the same reason. I suppose I see bottoming as an act that has to be truly wanted, not just to learn about how something feels.

I've flogged once, because my Him thought it'd be a cool mindgame. And it was. It really twisted my mind around in so much that it's insane. I didn't like the flogging, I felt like fish out of water. It's been a long time since I've felt as insecure as at that moment. The girl I flogged liked it, thou, and I liked the fact that she liked it, but that's the extent of my foray into the topping world and I wouldn't like to return to it unless he makes me do it again.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I think that moving from pyl to PYL can be a natural growth. It's easier to get in on the, "ground floor," so to speak. A pyl doesn't need as much experience or knowledge of bdsm, nor do they provide the props much of the time.
I'm 24.

It's not entirely true that, as a pyl, you don't need as many skills/as much experience, it just takes an entirely different set of skills to provide the PYL with a quality scene/service.

pyl is not lesser, or necessarily 'younger'/'newer', it's just different.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I think that moving from pyl to PYL can be a natural growth. It's easier to get in on the, "ground floor," so to speak. A pyl doesn't need as much experience or knowledge of bdsm, nor do they provide the props much of the time.

I disagree with this. A pyl is not just someone who lays there and gets beat upon. I've never looked at being a pyl as a passive position. A pyl needs to be well informed to protect themselves both physically and mentally.

Also many pyls that I know provide the majority of props. Especially insertables.