my Master's question for Lit's BSDM community:

[rebel_subdued]

Hi There!
This is my assignment from my Master. He has been in the lifestyle for over 35 years, and is mostly self-taught. He developed his techniques and skills slowly, by trial and error, and gradually perfected what works best. He later found out that what He was doing was called BDSM and that lots of others were in the same lifestyle. That was a while ago, before it was a bit more mainstream (relatively speaking). Anyway, He asked me to offer up His theory about new/young Doms.

His theory is this: Newer Doms are young (not necessarily by age), enthusiastic and almost drunk on the control and power they have, yet they lack the experience to know how to control that power, and sometimes administer too much, especially if the sub is begging for more. He compares them to baby rattlesnakes, who's venom is 4 times stronger than the adult snakes, and the baby rattlesnakes can't control the amount of venom they administer when they bite. The adult snakes have more control, and know exactly how much venom to administer based on the size of the prey, thus they are actually less dangerous. my Master compares new young Doms to baby rattlesnakes that need to learn to control their venom, or they can be dangerous. With experience and age comes wisdom, and experienced/older Doms know when to give more, and when to stop, despite the sub's begging for more.

This is not meant to insult or offend anyone, it is just His observation and He'd like to hear some feedback on it.

He'd especially like to hear from older, more experienced Doms about this theory.

Thanks for helping U/us out!

rebel_subdued and her Master.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's certainly a truism that aged experience can often trump youthful enthusiasm.

When I first entered the public scene, there was one Top who was in her late seventies. She was not in the best of health and her financials were precarious, but in the community she was the elder we all went to. Leatherdaddies, butch dykes, straight men and women, all were proud to say they had learned their Dom skills by bottoming for Mistress Carol.

I have a problem with inexperienced Doms, I am leery of the damage that someone might cause to another person's psyche-- especially when the sub is eager and willing. It's a bit like shoving your finger in someone's brain and stirring-- if you're just guessing what you're poking at, you can make an ungodly mess. I would far rather deal with an inexperienced Top-- a physical player-- instead.

 

[FurryFury]

A poll on this might be fun.

 

[JMohegan]

Hi There!
This is my assignment from my Master. He has been in the lifestyle for over 35 years, and is mostly self-taught. He developed his techniques and skills slowly, by trial and error, and gradually perfected what works best. He later found out that what He was doing was called BDSM and that lots of others were in the same lifestyle. That was a while ago, before it was a bit more mainstream (relatively speaking). Anyway, He asked me to offer up His theory about new/young Doms.

His theory is this: Newer Doms are young (not necessarily by age), enthusiastic and almost drunk on the control and power they have, yet they lack the experience to know how to control that power, and sometimes administer too much, especially if the sub is begging for more. He compares them to baby rattlesnakes, who's venom is 4 times stronger than the adult snakes, and the baby rattlesnakes can't control the amount of venom they administer when they bite. The adult snakes have more control, and know exactly how much venom to administer based on the size of the prey, thus they are actually less dangerous. my Master compares new young Doms to baby rattlesnakes that need to learn to control their venom, or they can be dangerous. With experience and age comes wisdom, and experienced/older Doms know when to give more, and when to stop, despite the sub's begging for more.

This is not meant to insult or offend anyone, it is just His observation and He'd like to hear some feedback on it.

He'd especially like to hear from older, more experienced Doms about this theory.

Thanks for helping U/us out!

rebel_subdued and her Master.

My initial feedback is in the form of a couple of questions.

When your Master was a "baby rattlesnake," what is the worst damage he ever inflicted on a submissive partner? What form did the damage take, and was it possible to repair that damage? If so, how long did the repairing take?

 

[rebel_subdued]

It's certainly a truism that aged experience can often trump youthful enthusiasm.

When I first entered the public scene, there was one Top who was in her late seventies. She was not in the best of health and her financials were precarious, but in the community she was the elder we all went to. Leatherdaddies, butch dykes, straight men and women, all were proud to say they had learned their Dom skills by bottoming for Mistress Carol.

I have a problem with inexperienced Doms, I am leery of the damage that someone might cause to another person's psyche-- especially when the sub is eager and willing. It's a bit like shoving your finger in someone's brain and stirring-- if you're just guessing what you're poking at, you can make an ungodly mess. I would far rather deal with an inexperienced Top-- a physical player-- instead.

Thank you for your reply, and a very interesting answer.

 

[favoritesgoddess]

How does one become an experienced Dom? I'm assuming even Mistress Carol was at one time inexperienced as well. Is there a right way and a wrong way to get that experience?

 

[rebel_subdued]

My initial feedback is in the form of a couple of questions.

When your Master was a "baby rattlesnake," what is the worst damage he ever inflicted on a submissive partner? What form did the damage take, and was it possible to repair that damage? If so, how long did the repairing take?

i will give Him this question, and post His answer. i don't know the answer.

 

[rebel_subdued]

How does one become an experienced Dom? I'm assuming even Mistress Carol was at one time inexperienced as well. Is there a right way and a wrong way to get that experience?

i think His point was that new Doms should be aware, and not give in to the desire to use all the power they have, just because they have it. i don't wish to speak for Him, though, so i i will ask.

Thank you all for your very thoughtful responses.

 

[Stella_Omega]

How does one become an experienced Dom? I'm assuming even Mistress Carol was at one time inexperienced as well. Is there a right way and a wrong way to get that experience?

I remember Her talking about her early days, and the Master and Mistress that dominated her when she was young.

We can't all of us find an experienced PYL and a lot of PYL types can't let go of their egos long enough mastery via submission-- Personally I have a problem with that, but YMMV. I know plenty of happy couples that have invented their own wheels, so to speak. And there are so many books out now, written by people whodo have the experience.

If someone must begin as a top, my advice for them would be to remember that they are a beginner. You don't do full-body suspension and then light the ropes on fire, you learn how to tie a pair of wrists together, effectively and safely, first.

Mmm... sometimes the simple things are the best...

 

[MisterSir]

We can't all of us find an experienced PYL and a lot of PYL types can't let go of their egos long enough mastery via submission

It irritates me when people take this tack and assume that any PYL types not willing to try submission do it for reasons like their egos rather than, say, purely because they have absolutely no desire to submit and it would do nothing for them whatsoever.

 

[NomadLady]

My initial feedback is in the form of a couple of questions.

When your Master was a "baby rattlesnake," what is the worst damage he ever inflicted on a submissive partner? What form did the damage take, and was it possible to repair that damage? If so, how long did the repairing take?

Looking forward to the answer to this question....

 

[CutieMouse]

Personally, given that all of this is his opinion, I think it would be useful to hear things straight from the horse's mouth, instead of filtered through his submissive.... but that's just me.

While I agree with much of what Stella posted (because yes, there are many minefields in this whole kinkyness thing), questions like this always make me wonder why a person who simply knows that power gets him/her off and has some degree of grace re: human beings and the complexities of the mind but hasn't ever been mentored/trained is "dangerous", but someone who has been mentored/trained (but might not necessarily have as good of a grasp on generic relationship dynamics), isn't.

Another curious question - if dominants need to be older/seasoned/experienced/trustworthy/whatever to be trustworthy, wouldn't the same apply to submissives? If not - why do more dominants chase inexperienced young little things, than strong, outspoken, intellectual, experienced, seasoned, older submissives? Seems a bit of a double standard, IMO.

And the third curious thing I thunked upon reading the OP, was to wonder what the age difference between her Master and herself was. But that's just me being nosy.

 

[Scotsman69]

My dom

and her 12 year younger sub, work perfectly. I switch for her when she needs the excitement of taking me. Deepest love either of us have ever experienced.

And jesus, we'll be together again soon. My cup overfloweth.

Be well, all of you.

Personally, given that all of this is his opinion, I think it would be useful to hear things straight from the horse's mouth, instead of filtered through his submissive.... but that's just me.

While I agree with much of what Stella posted (because yes, there are many minefields in this whole kinkyness thing), questions like this always make me wonder why a person who simply knows that power gets him/her off and has some degree of grace re: human beings and the complexities of the mind but hasn't ever been mentored/trained is "dangerous", but someone who has been mentored/trained (but might not necessarily have as good of a grasp on generic relationship dynamics), isn't.

Another curious question - if dominants need to be older/seasoned/experienced/trustworthy/whatever to be trustworthy, wouldn't the same apply to submissives? If not - why do more dominants chase inexperienced young little things, than strong, outspoken, intellectual, experienced, seasoned, older submissives? Seems a bit of a double standard, IMO.

And the third curious thing I thunked upon reading the OP, was to wonder what the age difference between her Master and herself was. But that's just me being nosy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It irritates me when people take this tack and assume that any PYL types not willing to try submission do it for reasons like their egos rather than, say, purely because they have absolutely no desire to submit and it would do nothing for them whatsoever.

Yeah, duh. It irritates every PYL who thinks they don't need no stinkin' training.

But the issue is not whether or not it would do anything for you. The issue is whether or not you have experienced what you want me to experience, and whether or not you actually know what you're doing. It isn't about your lifestyle preferences, it's about your understanding of your craft.

I will be totally honest here and say this is why I don't play much with Mr. Omega-- he "has no desire to submit, and it does nothing for him."

In practical terms, that means he won't experience some things that I could teach him that would make me a very happy bottom indeed. I think it's one of his less adorable traits, personally.

And I won't make any huge generalities, because I have met more than one woman who would not bottom-- but I tend to automatically discount male PYLs at first. They have to do a little bit of proving before I trust them. Sometimes, a lot.

 

[YourCaptor]

It's not rocket science. Though maybe difficult for some, we are all born with different skills. Some are athletes, some are socialites, some are good in bed. I don't think it takes 35 years to be proficient though no matter what it is.

All I get from this is that the old guy got issues with young folk.

 

[NomadLady]

Personally, given that all of this is his opinion, I think it would be useful to hear things straight from the horse's mouth, instead of filtered through his submissive.... but that's just me.


Another curious question - if dominants need to be older/seasoned/experienced/trustworthy/whatever to be trustworthy, wouldn't the same apply to submissives? If not - why do more dominants chase inexperienced young little things, than strong, outspoken, intellectual, experienced, seasoned, older submissives? Seems a bit of a double standard, IMO.

This is the one that crawls on my last nerve....at my age how are you supposed to find a dom that doesn't want all the young things.....

 

[Stella_Omega]

This is the one that crawls on my last nerve....at my age how are you supposed to find a dom that doesn't want all the young things.....

Look for a female PYL.

 

[NomadLady]

Look for a female PYL.

It's a mindset thing with me....my first PYL was a man and I just don't see it being the same with a woman but I was speaking more long term, but I can admit it would be something I'd like to try.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's a mindset thing with me....my first PYL was a man and I just don't see it being the same with a woman but I was speaking more long term, but I can admit it would be something I'd like to try.

I know, I was just teasing you a little bit.

Something else you might start thinking about, is trying on the Domme role-- now that you are experienced and all. There are so many sub men out there, needing Mistresses...

 

[NomadLady]

I know, I was just teasing you a little bit.

Something else you might start thinking about, is trying on the Domme role-- now that you are experienced and all. There are so many sub men out there, needing Mistresses...

I did that just recently as a matter of fact....he said I was the "best he ever had". He had no idea it was my first time. I was a little shocked at myself that I was able to "switch" so easily.
Was going to post about it but just haven't gotten around to it.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Yeah, duh. It irritates every PYL who thinks they don't need no stinkin' training.

But the issue is not whether or not it would do anything for you. The issue is whether or not you have experienced what you want me to experience, and whether or not you actually know what you're doing. It isn't about your lifestyle preferences, it's about your understanding of your craft.

Ok, honest question here, because I do see this path to learning to PYL a fair bit.

How does it actually help? Given the subjective nature of people, how does learning to bottom/submit give you the skills to top? I know you'd learn what things feel like for you but how do you learn how to wield those skills on another person? Wouldn't it be better to learn as a PYL from a PYL?


And a less serious question, but one I'm thinking of nonetheless: Conversely, why is it never/rarely mentioned that a pyl should learn their craft as a PYL first?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ok, honest question here, because I do see this path to learning to PYL a fair bit.

How does it actually help? Given the subjective nature of people, how does learning to bottom/submit give you the skills to top? I know you'd learn what things feel like for you but how do you learn how to wield those skills on another person? Wouldn't it be better to learn as a PYL from a PYL?

You might ask Nomad Lady about that, huh? She's just made the flip.

And a less serious question, but one I'm thinking of nonetheless: Conversely, why is it never/rarely mentioned that a pyl should learn their craft as a PYL first?

I write an awful lot of fiction about PYLs that get flipped and find true happiness as pyls!

 

[NomadLady]

Ok, honest question here, because I do see this path to learning to PYL a fair bit.

How does it actually help? Given the subjective nature of people, how does learning to bottom/submit give you the skills to top? I know you'd learn what things feel like for you but how do you learn how to wield those skills on another person? Wouldn't it be better to learn as a PYL from a PYL?


And a less serious question, but one I'm thinking of nonetheless: Conversely, why is it never/rarely mentioned that a pyl should learn their craft as a PYL first?

It does help to have the perspective of being a pyl when you try PYL. I knew the things I like/don't like and I used them to my advantage. The pyl I met specifically advertised that he wanted a spanking. I didn't venture out from that and gave him what he asked for. I took breaks to change "implements" from time to time and rubbed his backside, asking him if he was ok, if he wanted more, etc. I scolded him for moving, wiggling, not counting when I had told him to, and for dripping precum on MY floor. I almost made him lick it up but didn't want to go there on a first meeting.
It was incredibly helpful in my opinion to know the pyl view.

 

[Primalex]

Personally, given that all of this is his opinion, I think it would be useful to hear things straight from the horse's mouth, instead of filtered through his submissive.... but that's just me.

Tsk, tsk..
After reading the first paragraph I already know who the Master is. The filter does not work that good, certain favorite terms and descriptions always pass through.

Another curious question - if dominants need to be older/seasoned/experienced/trustworthy/whatever to be trustworthy, wouldn't the same apply to submissives? If not - why do more dominants chase inexperienced young little things, than strong, outspoken, intellectual, experienced, seasoned, older submissives? Seems a bit of a double standard, IMO.

a) Nobody likes used, worn and damaged tools.
b) It takes experience to use a tool properly.

Simple.

The tool benefits from the experience of its artisan, it does not have to worry about excessive abrasion or damage. The artisan benefits from a properly working tool. Despite this, some old tools need sixteen pages of additional safety instructions. Who wants this?

The good news is: even the most damaged tools can still be used as fuck toys or exhibits, there will always be a market for them.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Primalex is one of OP's "baby rattlesnakes," of course. It will be interesting to see if he ever grows up.

It does help to have the perspective of being a pyl when you try PYL. I knew the things I like/don't like and I used them to my advantage. The pyl I met specifically advertised that he wanted a spanking. I didn't venture out from that and gave him what he asked for. I took breaks to change "implements" from time to time and rubbed his backside, asking him if he was ok, if he wanted more, etc. I scolded him for moving, wiggling, not counting when I had told him to, and for dripping precum on MY floor. I almost made him lick it up but didn't want to go there on a first meeting.
It was incredibly helpful in my opinion to know the pyl view.

Thank you!

I agree-- I am a better PYL because I know what pushes my buttons as a pyl. I learned ropework a top-- but I know where I want to put the ropes on someone because I have felt them on myself.