British English question

[deisatru]

I have noticed in many stories written by those of British origins, the word 'whilst' is used in what I consider excess.

My question:

How often do you British actually use the word 'whilst' in normal conversation?

 

[Thomas Drablézien]

I have noticed in many stories written by those of British origins, the word 'whilst' is used in what I consider excess.

My question:

How often do you British actually use the word 'whilst' in normal conversation?

Being a Brit myself, I think that in everyday conversation 'while' would be the most commonly used version of that word. However in British English 'whilst' is considered to be the correct form of the word and for those who take care over their usage more likely to be written than 'while.'

i.e. one might say 'While I was walking down the road...' but it is 'better English' to write 'Whilst I was walking down the road...'

Unfortunately 'The Concise Oxford Dictionary' is not very clear on usage, 'while' or 'whilst' seem to be interchangeable when indicating continuous or concurrent action(s). However 'a while' or 'the while' (Obsolete / poetic usage) can be used to indicate an unspecified time period.

I hope that answers your question.

Tom

 

[butters]

I tend to find writing 'whilst' to be automatic, less so when it comes to the spoken word. Where I live right now, if I used 'whilst' in general conversation it would be sure to get me some odd looks.

 

[Lady_Fiona]

I'm a bit weird then obviously, because I do use it in conversation

 

[Sanichi]

You'll miss it when it's gone

Whilst I can't speak for anybody else, I would say never in normal conversation, and as needed in writing. Is it that much of a problem? Examples, please.

Like "like" for "such as", and "less" for "fewer", I agree with Tom that "while" is more frequently used, because "whilst", whilst correct, has a tendency to sound pompous. (Like that. I mean, as does that.) Sadly, hardly nobody speaks proper no more over here, because, like, it's you know, kind of, whatever, innit? They're all too busy taking drugs and drinking alcopops to learn proper talking and that.

Whilst we are on the subject, is there anything to be done about you lot coining "alot" as a single word?

 

[butters]

I'm a bit weird then obviously, because I do use it in conversation

no, you're not weird. and i find my own speech patterns adjust automatically depending on whom i'm with/where i am. chameleon.

 

[butters]

Whilst I can't speak for anybody else, I would say never in normal conversation, and as needed in writing. Is it that much of a problem? Examples, please.

Like "like" for "such as", and "less" for "fewer", I agree with Tom that "while" is more frequently used, because "whilst", whilst correct, has a tendency to sound pompous. (Like that. I mean, as does that.) Sadly, hardly nobody speaks proper no more over here, because, like, it's you know, kind of, whatever, innit? They're all too busy taking drugs and drinking alcopops to learn proper talking and that.

Whilst we are on the subject, is there anything to be done about you lot coining "alot" as a single word?

arrrrghhhhh!!!!! hate that

 

[Thomas Drablézien]

...Sadly, hardly nobody speaks proper no more over here, because, like, it's you know, kind of, whatever, innit? They're all too busy taking drugs and drinking alcopops to learn proper talking and that.

Shouldn't that little speech terminated 'an'at' to be in the full vernacular?


My pet hate in that mode of speech is "'e was like..." for "he said..." I can't even work out why 'like' has been transmuted to mean 'said.' Except through common (very common!) usage. It's all a mystery to me!

Besides 'I was brung up to talk proper werneye" (Think about it!)


Tom

 

[bronzeage]

"Whilst" is common southern US speech.

"The barn burned down, whilst you was at the store."

I don't think I have ever used the word in my writing. I might use it in dialog, but never in narrative. It's one of those words which sounds like a dialect pronunciation, but remains spelled the same.

"Gumment men was here looking for you, whilst you was at the store."

 

[bronzeage]

Shouldn't that little speech terminated 'an'at' to be in the full vernacular?


My pet hate in that mode of speech is "'e was like..." for "he said..." I can't even work out why 'like' has been transmuted to mean 'said.' Except through common (very common!) usage. It's all a mystery to me!

Besides 'I was brung up to talk proper werneye" (Think about it!)


Tom

When a person substitutes "he was like" for "he said..." what they try to do is mimic the person they quote. This works well for face to face conversation, because one can add hand gestures and facial expressions. That sort of thing gets lost in text.

 

[CopperSkink]

The correct passage would be "Hardly nobody never speaks proper over here no more".
Carried over from the correct Russian where you can negative the crap out of anything you want without accidentally making it positive.

"Whilst" in the Bay is strictly a no-no, therefore I use it interchangably because I'm funny like that.

One thing I can't abide is people exchanging "fewer" with "less". They serve two completely different purposes.

 

[Thomas Drablézien]

When a person substitutes "he was like" for "he said..." what they try to do is mimic the person they quote. This works well for face to face conversation, because one can add hand gestures and facial expressions. That sort of thing gets lost in text.

I think by that point we Brits had moved off to spoken English - if you could call it that - rather than written. The same with my little 'I was brung up..." line. When I used to live in London I heard my fellow countrymen / women frequently committing the most horrible atrocities to their mother tongue. But then again, I have been accused of 'Talking posh' by a fellow Londoner.

OK, well off topic, but thread drift is a fact of life.

Trying to mimic that mode of speech exactly - with all the dropped Hs, Ts, contractions and swallowed sibilants - in a form that is readable by someone who wasn't used to hearing it would be a nightmare! Hence my 'werneye' it's as close as I could get to how I have heard 'wasn't I' pronounced far more times that I care to remember.

Back to London soon for a few days. Oh joy!

Tom

 

[butters]

I think by that point we Brits had moved off to spoken English - if you could call it that - rather than written. The same with my little 'I was brung up..." line. When I used to live in London I heard my fellow countrymen / women frequently committing the most horrible atrocities to their mother tongue. But then again, I have been accused of 'Talking posh' by a fellow Londoner.

OK, well off topic, but thread drift is a fact of life.

Trying to mimic that mode of speech exactly - with all the dropped Hs, Ts, contractions and swallowed sibilants - in a form that is readable by someone who wasn't used to hearing it would be a nightmare! Hence my 'werneye' it's as close as I could get to how I have heard 'wasn't I' pronounced far more times that I care to remember.

Back to London soon for a few days. Oh joy!

Tom

really, tom, it all depends on where you are in london and with whom you're speaking. let's not paint everyone in london with the same indiscriminate brush, let alone the whole of the UK

 

[trojank]

I think you will find that the "Cockney" accent dosent exist from the one that I grew up with in East London. The accent that the youth or anyone around the 20 mark or younger age especially in inner city London is a bastardised version of Asian Black and White .......

 

[butters]

I think you will find that the "Cockney" accent dosent exist from the one that I grew up with in East London. The accent that the youth or anyone around the 20 mark or younger age especially in inner city London is a bastardised version of Asian Black and White .......

init!

 

[nerk]

Trying to mimic that mode of speech exactly - with all the dropped Hs, Ts, contractions and swallowed sibilants - in a form that is readable by someone who wasn't used to hearing it would be a nightmare! Hence my 'werneye' it's as close as I could get to how I have heard 'wasn't I' pronounced far more times that I care to remember.

Though in many ways a bit too precious, Trainspotting was magnificent for being written phonetically. I had to read aloud for a few pages before I was able to "hear" it just by looking. I realize that Londonish and Edinburghese are radically different languages, but they both present themselves in writing as English, without sounding much like it in speech.

 

[Thomas Drablézien]

chipbutty

I certainly didn't intend to tar the whole population of London or indeed England with the same brush. I was born and brought up and spent most of my life in and around London. However I do feel that the kind of lazy speech about which we have been posting is endemic. 'Estuary English' now almost seems to have become the new 'Received Pronunciation' even on the BBC! And as for 'Yoof Speak' well don't get me started.

Opps I just noticed that wink - You got me stitched up like a kipper well good, di'n't ya! He he he


Tom

P.S. I do hope that our friends across the Atlantic are taking note that we don't all talk like Dick van Dyke's rendition of London English

 

[nerk]

P.S. I do hope that our friends across the Atlantic are taking note that we don't all talk like Dick van Dyke's rendition of London English

except chip ... she IS a jolly 'oliday wifue.

 

[bronzeage]

I think by that point we Brits had moved off to spoken English - if you could call it that - rather than written. The same with my little 'I was brung up..." line. When I used to live in London I heard my fellow countrymen / women frequently committing the most horrible atrocities to their mother tongue. But then again, I have been accused of 'Talking posh' by a fellow Londoner.

OK, well off topic, but thread drift is a fact of life.

Trying to mimic that mode of speech exactly - with all the dropped Hs, Ts, contractions and swallowed sibilants - in a form that is readable by someone who wasn't used to hearing it would be a nightmare! Hence my 'werneye' it's as close as I could get to how I have heard 'wasn't I' pronounced far more times that I care to remember.

Back to London soon for a few days. Oh joy!

Tom

"Werneye" is easy enough to understand. Where I come from, everybody thinks everyone else talks funny. Most people no longer complain about how English is pronounced. They are usually happy to hear English being used.

If anyone needs help to decipher this short passage, I am available.

"One day, w'en Brer Rabbit, en Brer Fox en Brer Coon, en Brer B'ar, en a whole lot un um wuz clearin' up a new groun' fer ter plant a roas'n'year patch, de sun 'gun ter git sorter hot, en Brer Rabbit he got tired; but he didn't let on, kaze he 'fer'd de balance un um'd call 'im lazy, en he keep on totin' off trash en pilin' up bresh, twel bimeby he holler out dat he gotter brier in his han', en den he take'n slip off. em hunt fer cool place fer ter res'. Atter w'ile he come 'crosst a well wid a bucket hangin' in it."

 

[Thomas Drablézien]

Though in many ways a bit too precious, Trainspotting was magnificent for being written phonetically. I had to read aloud for a few pages before I was able to "hear" it just by looking. I realize that Londonish and Edinburghese are radically different languages, but they both present themselves in writing as English, without sounding much like it in speech.

I'm glad to say that regional accents and dialects are still alive and well in the UK. Although sadly these differences do seem to be being steadily eroded. The accents remain fairly robustly but except in the large dialect areas, many of the more localised dialect words have been lost as the last few remaining speakers are dying.

Only slightly off at a tangent. I now live in France, and it amazed me to find out that what the rest of us think of as French has only been the spoken universally in this country for about 60 years. Up until then, and still persisting in some parts, every region had it's own patois with further patois subsets spoken in smaller local areas. French was the official language of administration etc, but the local patois were the day to day languages spoken. - And you thought English variations were confusing!

Tom

 

[Thomas Drablézien]

"One day, w'en Brer Rabbit, en Brer Fox en Brer Coon, en Brer B'ar, en a whole lot un um wuz clearin' up a new groun' fer ter plant a roas'n'year patch, de sun 'gun ter git sorter hot, en Brer Rabbit he got tired; but he didn't let on, kaze he 'fer'd de balance un um'd call 'im lazy, en he keep on totin' off trash en pilin' up bresh, twel bimeby he holler out dat he gotter brier in his han', en den he take'n slip off. em hunt fer cool place fer ter res'. Atter w'ile he come 'crosst a well wid a bucket hangin' in it."

Well that's a classic. My mother used to read me the Anglicised edition of the 'Brer Rabbit' stories at bedtime. Although the language had been 'cleaned up' to make it more readable it did, I seem to remember, still retained a lot of the 'Uncle Tom' voice though. Oh so many years ago!

And, of course, there is the Disney version for further reference.

Oh, so many years ago!

Tom

 

[butters]

chipbutty

I certainly didn't intend to tar the whole population of London or indeed England with the same brush. I was born and brought up and spent most of my life in and around London. However I do feel that the kind of lazy speech about which we have been posting is endemic. 'Estuary English' now almost seems to have become the new 'Received Pronunciation' even on the BBC! And as for 'Yoof Speak' well don't get me started.

Opps I just noticed that wink - You got me stitched up like a kipper well good, di'n't ya! He he he


Tom

P.S. I do hope that our friends across the Atlantic are taking note that we don't all talk like Dick van Dyke's rendition of London English

one thing about the new 'blend' of language is that it makes one point of contact where all the various youth cultures meet - to be able to understand what someone else is saying goes a long way to eliminating distrust/fear between communities.

and yeah, i woz pullin yer plonker, yer daft 'apporth!

except chip ... she IS a jolly 'oliday wifue.

bloomin' cheek. i used to be far more mary poppins than i am now.

 

[fridayam]

Hailing from Merseyside as I do, I don't understand a word of the previous entries

 

[bronzeage]

Well that's a classic. My mother used to read me the Anglicised edition of the 'Brer Rabbit' stories at bedtime. Although the language had been 'cleaned up' to make it more readable it did, I seem to remember, still retained a lot of the 'Uncle Tom' voice though. Oh so many years ago!

And, of course, there is the Disney version for further reference.

Oh, so many years ago!

Tom

This is from "Uncle Remus".

One day, when Brother Rabbit, and Brother Fox and Brother Coon, and Brother Bear, and a whole lot of them was clearing up a new ground for to plant a roasting ear patch (corn field), the sun began to get sort of hot, and Brother Rabbit he got tired; but he didn't let on, because he feared the balance of them (the others) would call him lazy, and he keep on toting off (carrying) trash and piling up brush (tree limbs). Well, by and by, he holler out that he got a brier in his hand, and then he took to slip away from them and hunt for a cool place for to rest. After awhile he come across a well with a bucket hanging in it."

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

really, tom, it all depends on where you are in london and with whom you're speaking. let's not paint everyone in london with the same indiscriminate brush, let alone the whole of the UK

If you want champion use of English, look you, come to rural Wales. We still speak tidy, isn't it.

... Brother Coon, ...

I thought the "C" word had gone the way of the "n" word - banned by Political Correctness?

Revenons à nos moutons. The educated classes still say "whilst", but since the UK state education system is now full of teachers who were never taught grammar, elocution, or much else, it is dying out.