Odd Feedback

[jimmyjoyce]

I recently received this piece of anonymous public feedback to a story:

quite a writer..........
08/10/10 By: Anonymous
I feel I must remind of the forum here, although your story was great, in this forum, there were way too many unrelated facts. You even reminded yourself several times that you were getting off point. I guess that would account for the length also.
I would be remiss if I didn't remind you again this this is supposed to be erotic in nature, not historical.

I'd defend myself against the charge of 'getting off the point', by the way, but that's a minor issue. What I'm interested in is the commenter's assertion that this (presumably Literotica itself) is supposed to be erotic in nature, not historical.

Does anybody have any sympathy with this point of view? That is, does anybody agree that a Literotica story has to be exclusively erotic, to the exclusion of other content and considerations, like history?

(The story, by the way, is called Charlle Garrick, and it's here:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=304932

- but I'd imagine it's possible to answer my question without reading the story.)



- jimmyjoyce

 

[sr71plt]

I think stories on Literotica should be erotica, yes. But that's not a requirement. And so I don't use it as an impediment to posting nonerotic stories here myself. (The Web site obviously thinks it's fine--they often lead off their daily "New" list with an nonerotic work. The did so just a couple of days ago.

 

[evanslily]

Yeah, that was pretty odd feedback, I agree - not least because I'm fairly sure the commenter meant 'form' not 'forum'.

I rather enjoyed your story and the attention to historical detail. And for the benefit of anyone who hasn't clicked on the link, this story actually does include erotic encounters. It seems that the person who felt the need to remind you of the 'forum' thinks that stories that aren't wall to wall descriptions of the sexual act aren't 'erotic in nature'. I beg to differ. Those sort of stories generally have me back-clicking in seconds. That's not erotica, that's porn (but the difference between porn and erotica is a whole new topic which has been argued to death elsewhere, so let's not go there...).

For me, the joy of Literotica is that there isn't a set form (or should that be 'forum'? ). So carry on posting the stories you want to write!

 

[Experiencedguy]

Look - someof us enjoy the sexy historical stories. As long as they are factual and accurate.

Of course, if you want to tell us up front the the history is fictional, that is fine also, as long as it is still erotic.

And, if you have a story that is mostly historic, with minimum sex, there is always the non-erotic catagory.

Write whatever you want - and post it wherever you want. No Matter What You Do, someone will always be unhappy with you. What matters is the overall rating of the story, not one person's opinion.

 

[jimmyjoyce]

Everybody who's responded so far has confirmed my own feeling, of course - and I completely agree with Experiencedguy: No Matter What You Do, someone will always be unhappy with you.

Thanks evanslily for pointing this out:

... for the benefit of anyone who hasn't clicked on the link, this story actually does include erotic encounters.

That highlights the weird thing about the comment I quoted. The commenter actually seemed to have found something positive in the story - your story was great, etc. - and had, presumably, noticed the fairly extensive sex, but still insisted on taking me to task for going beyond what he appears to see as the prescribed limits of erotic writing.

What I was actually trying to do with the 'history' and so on in the story was to contextualize the eroticism - to 'make it real'. I do accept sr71plt's and Experiencedguy's points that there's room on Literotica for non-erotic writing, but in this case I was actually writing a story about sex - about the history of sex in the 1960s, in fact, and how that history - the social changes of the period - impinged on two characters, Charlie and Susie. It's as if the commenter wanted to deny himself a pleasure (because he does seem to have got something from the story, at least) because of some silly rule he'd made up.

I suppose I should just dismiss him as an eccentric - there are plenty of them about, after all - but I wonder how many other readers enter Literotica with their blinkers clapped on quite as tightly. It strikes me as odd that in a forum (to use the commenter's term, even if, as evanslily suggests, he may have meant something else) that is dedicated to free expression, some people feel a need to restrict that freedom.

Anyway, thanks for the responses. I'll probably erase the comment eventually, but I'll let it stand for a while as a curiosity.

- jimmyjoyce

 

[sr71plt]

I suppose I should just dismiss him as an eccentric

Yes, this is what I'd do. And spend my time writing rather than pondering the imponderable.

 

[jimmyjoyce]

Yes, this is what I'd do. And spend my time writing rather than pondering the imponderable.

1. Yes, you're right, of course,

but:

2. isn't writing fiction, in a way, precisely a way of pondering the imponderable?

- jimmyjoyce

 

[meathead96]

1. Yes, you're right, of course,

but:

2. isn't writing fiction, in a way, precisely a way of pondering the imponderable?

- jimmyjoyce

That is what I think. I had a comment left on one of my stories that "rimmed me out" for not having my story stick to what would have actually happened. IT"S FICTION! (didn't happen, may not happen, probably won't happen, etc, etc.). If none of my stories come true, that is okay with me. If readers enjoy my stories, that is okay with me. If commenters want to read what could and would happen, read non-fiction (cuz it already has happened). SO write on, and keep up the really good work!

 

[PacoFear]

Does anybody have any sympathy with this point of view? That is, does anybody agree that a Literotica story has to be exclusively erotic, to the exclusion of other content and considerations, like history?

I'm with you, jimmy. I don't think stories here need to be erotic. Still, you risk the wrath of the readers if you don't come across with some heat. Post it in the non-erotic category, or at least warn them up front in some kind of author's note that your story is low on the naughty. Otherwise, it's kind of a bait and switch, isn't it?

Fact is, if folks wanted to read straight fiction, chances are they wouldn't be looking for it here. I don't mind though. From my POV, a hearty helping of smut is the price I pay for an hour or two of their undivided attention. I get to have fun doing my little ethiopian shim sham and they get, you know, whatever they get.

Small threadjack: what's the weirdest feedback you guys have received? I got one two days ago from a fella who said he's dictating my stories to mp3 so that he can listen to them while he's on the road.

Cheers,

-PF

 

[sr71plt]

1. Yes, you're right, of course,

but:

2. isn't writing fiction, in a way, precisely a way of pondering the imponderable?

- jimmyjoyce

Writing it is. Trying to figure readers out? Not so much. That's more a spinning wheels and writing avoidance thing.

 

[sr71plt]

Small threadjack: what's the weirdest feedback you guys have received? I got one two days ago from a fella who said he's dictating my stories to mp3 so that he can listen to them while he's on the road.

I guess mine was when a reader started sending me (excellent) illustrations for my stories. (You can see some of them at BarbarianSpy.com).

 

[PacoFear]

I guess mine was when a reader started sending me (excellent) illustrations for my stories. (You can see some of them at BarbarianSpy.com).

Awww, now that's just way cooler. I tip my imaginary hat to you, sir.

 

[Litbridge]

I expect to get 'slapped upside the head' for my next story. It's very long and I will edit for length and try to get the details out that are extraneous i.e. incidental to the story and can be sacrificed before submitting. But even so, readers only interested in smut will not make it past the first few pages. That's okay. It's my prerogative as one writer who enjoys the character and plot building part of writing in order to create the 'right' context for the erotic scenes that follow. Those are the kinds of stories I'd prefer to read, so that's what I'm writing. BTW: I came across something in the guidelines about minimum length of submissions but couldn't find anything on maximum pages/words. Is there a point at which it is probably wise to submit as separate chapters? If so, readers may wonder why my first chapter is in the erotic section. Any thoughts anyone. I'm talking something around 15,000 words here!

 

[sr71plt]

First, you may be in luck. Readers here only looking for quick smut don't tend to take the time to vote or comment at all.

15,000 words is four Lit. pages. I prefer not to read more than two Lit. pages, but I don't think most Lit. readers would be put off by four.

 

[Litbridge]

Thanks sr71plt. Good input. I'll try not to be selfish with the reader's time. Should be submitting in a few days.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Writing non-erotic, original fiction is certainly acceptable here. They have a category specifically set aside for it. People who stick "no sex" stories in other categories are monumentally ignorant about the audience. Srsly. It's a smut site, people come here for the smut. "No sex" is gonna annoy them, unless it's appropriately categorized or warned for at the top (Loving Wives has a lot of the husband takes revenge on wifey and her lover, no sex involved type stories for some reason).

I don't really understand why people would post their non-erotic fiction here rather than polish it up and find a mainstream audience for it, be it for sale or for publication credits. Literotica is a publication credit, but not one that will impress editors for future endeavors (not enough subjective acceptance/rejection available here). But then again, some people just want to have fun and Lit has a huge audience. I don't publish my non-erotic fiction here simply because I try to publish it elsewhere, with some success. To an extent. My erotica is here exclusively, unless it's been jacked.

 

[jimmyjoyce]

Writing non-erotic, original fiction is certainly acceptable here. They have a category specifically set aside for it. People who stick "no sex" stories in other categories are monumentally ignorant about the audience. Srsly. It's a smut site, people come here for the smut. "No sex" is gonna annoy them, unless it's appropriately categorized or warned for at the top .

Yes, that makes sense. Just to clarify, though, my original question was:

... does anybody agree that a Literotica story has to be exclusively erotic, to the exclusion of other content and considerations ... ?

My critic - if that's what s/he was - wasn't objecting that there was no sex in Charlie Garrick - there's actually rather a lot - but that I'd included other material as well as the sex, which to him/her amounted to ' too many unrelated facts'.

In contrast to my critic, it seems to me that viable erotic stories can be divided into two main types:

1. stroke stories, where the focus is almost exclusively on descriptions of sex;

2. more developed stories, in which sex is still the central focus, but which place it in a more developed context - in what we'd normally consider to be a 'story', in fact.

I was trying to do the second with Charlie Garrick - and, before the odd comment I started this thread with, nobody had objected to it. (It's been up since 2007, by the way.) However, I've certainly written and posted both kinds of story - and of course I think there's a place for both.

(I realise, by the way, KillerMuffin, that the emphasis shifted as this thread went on, and a few people did seem to interpret the suggestion that a Literotica story doesn’t have to be exclusively erotic as meaning that a story in an erotic category can, if the writer chooses, exclude the erotic altogether. That, of course, wasn’t the focus of my question.)

- jimmyjoyce

 

[sr71plt]

And think the real point is that it was just one reader's comment. Readers come in all varieties. When you get gobs of readers saying something, it might be good to look at it. But one? Not so much.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Anyway, thanks for the responses. I'll probably erase the comment eventually, but I'll let it stand for a while as a curiosity.

- jimmyjoyce

Don't erase the comment unless you must. It is not offensive or insulting to anybody, and my personal view is that on a site dedicated to promoting free speech we should not censor the views of others.

I recently received this piece of anonymous public feedback to a story:

quite a writer..........
08/10/10 By: Anonymous
I feel I must remind of the forum here, although your story was great, in this forum, there were way too many unrelated facts. You even reminded yourself several times that you were getting off point. I guess that would account for the length also.
I would be remiss if I didn't remind you again this this is supposed to be erotic in nature, not historical.

Does anybody have any sympathy with this point of view? - but I'd imagine it's possible to answer my question without reading the story.)- jimmyjoyce

I read your writing and enjoyed it as a refeshing change but would tell you that no-one could sensibly comment on the comment without reading you. I think you misconstrue what anonymous is trying, somewhat inarticulately, to say.

Your piece needs a serious edit as it rambles and gives a load of detail that is superfluous (his 'unrelated facts'). You need to be brutal in discarding a load of padding that distracts from the flow of Charlie's loss of innocence. A lot of the history is overplayed and you could be much more succinct in putting us in the era.

I am no fan of a style that talks to the reader - especially from first person and when you are conflating time periods. IMHO having Charlie wander around London in present time reminiscing on changes and what happened in the past might be more effective than a history lesson.

Instead of a 'story' where you play out the tension (sexual or otherwise - it doesn't matter) in the Charlie/Susie relationship, you just use bit characters and too much irrelevant current affairs. The departure of Susie is a damp squib.

Again, I suspect the commenter, by saying you should be 'erotic', means you should get some emotional tension between your protagonists.

In summary, I think you misread the comment, which seems positive to me, and you could review the story in the light of whether you have indulged in the author's favorite vice - overwriting.

PS I'm with the pack, Lit is for stories with any degree of sex, but even non-erotic needs a 3-act play.

Still, I liked it.

 

[jimmyjoyce]

Thanks for the detailed comments, elfin_odalisque. I'll mull them over carefully.

Regards,

- jimmyjoyce

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Thanks for the detailed comments, elfin_odalisque. I'll mull them over carefully.

Regards,

- jimmyjoyce

I'm not being aggressive, I just think you may have misread what A Nonny Mouse was trying to say.

Straight stroke stories on Lit rarely get high scores, unless in the juvenilia of incest. I think you have a good story but you've overdone it a bit.

 

[KillerMuffin]

My favorite readers tell me that I'm going to hell and let me know that they're more than willing to help me find a good church.

I tell them that I've already tithed to Satan. I don't mention that in my world view Satan = IRS. *smirk*

 

[FinalStrife7]

It's not mandated, to be sure, but that is the purpose of the site, is it not? Banner ads on the site advertise sex toys, not civil war replicas. You're more than welcome to post something NOT erotic, but because this site is geared towards that area, you can hardly justify taking offense at someone calling you out for it.

 

[driphoney]

It's not mandated, to be sure, but that is the purpose of the site, is it not? Banner ads on the site advertise sex toys, not civil war replicas. You're more than welcome to post something NOT erotic, but because this site is geared towards that area, you can hardly justify taking offense at someone calling you out for it.

But when your story clearly IS erotic in nature? Like Jimmyjoyce's?

And it's not unknown for non-erotic stories to win the contests.

 

[sr71plt]

My oddest feedback might be in the nature of comment given on a single story--as distinct from the type of comment given on almost everything else I have here. My most-viewed story is, I think, opened often because it's about the last story in the collection ("Zonked"). There's nothing else about the story that would make it more attracting to open than any of my others, I don't think. But what is most odd about it is that the comments it attracts aren't so much on the story. Somehow commenters feel compelled to tell a story of their own--with a few not seeming to have much connection to the story that has prompted the "here's my story" posting.