Social Justice, Social Engineering, Eugenics; Right or Wrong?

[Stella_Omega]

You are, of course, speaking of books. It's a pain in the arse when one is reading a book and encounters uncut pages.


As Og will tell you, whether the pages of a book are cut or uncut is another aspect of condition that will affect a book's value. A reputable dealer's description should mention the presence of uncut pages.


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I've never had a book with uncut pages in my possession... I buy my books to be read, at least once. That would be indeed a pain in the arse, but so exciting!

 

[oggbashan]

I have a copy of Shakespeare's Complete Works with uncut pages.

It is my most valued book. Why?

Because it was a prize presented to my grandfather at school. It is the only thing I have that was his, and I bought it as part of a large job-lot of books in my bookshop. That was serendipity.

The reason that it remains uncut is because he already had a complete Shakespeare, a better edition, and didn't need another one.

Og

 

[trysail]

Thomas Jefferson’s copy, with 42 errata corrected in his hand

53. NEILSON, WILLIAM. Neilson's Greek exercises. Abridged and revised in syntax, ellipsis, dialects, prosody, and metaphrasis: to which is prefixed a concise, but comprehensive syntax for the use of colleges, academies and schools. By the principals of Baltimore College. Baltimore: printed for proprietors by Swain & Matchett, 1809. $75,000

First American edition (the book was first printed in Edinburgh, 1806); 8vo, pp. viii, 171, [1]; text in Greek and English; contemporary full mottled calf, recased and with a mid-20th century rebacking in morocco, old red morocco label preserved on spine; edges worn; good and sound.

Thomas Jefferson's copy, with his block initial marks at signature I ("T"), and at signature T ("I"), and with approximately 42 corrections and amendations in his hand in the text, on 32 pages. Most of the corrections amend the spelling of Greek words by crossing out or underlining the improper letter, and inserting, usually with a caret in the margin, the correct letter. Many of the corrections are to the Greek, but several also correct errors in the English, such as where her has corrected "Ulyssus" to read "Ulysses" by crossing out the "u" and inserting the "e," or inverting "Is it" to "It is" in a declarative sentence.

All the corrections are listed in the errata at the back.

Jefferson's use of block initials at signatures I and T began in 1815 after the sale of his so-called Great Library to the Library of Congress; prior to 1815 his books were marked with cursive initials. Some signature marks of this period were not made by Jefferson but rather by family members. That this particular volume has so many corrections in Jefferson's hand makes it seem plausable that the signature marks here are his.

Poor, Nathaniel P., Catalogue. President Jefferson's Library, 1829, no. 851; see also Bear, James A., Jr., Thomas Jefferson's Book-Marks, Charlottesville, 1958; "Jefferson, the Book Collector," in The Quarterly Journal of the Library of Congress, Vol. 29, No. 1, January, 1972, p. 32-48.

 

[trysail]

I have a copy of Shakespeare's Complete Works with uncut pages.

It is my most valued book. Why?

Because it was a prize presented to my grandfather at school. It is the only thing I have that was his, and I bought it as part of a large job-lot of books in my bookshop. That was serendipity.

The reason that it remains uncut is because he already had a complete Shakespeare, a better edition, and didn't need another one.

Og

That is an extraordinary tale. My goodness, what are the odds that one of his books would find its way back into your hands by pure chance? They have to be nearly astronomical.


Your advice that one possess a "reading copy" of any valuable book is a very good suggestion.


Your story reminds me of another intersection of serendipity and books— which is, of course, one of the things that makes bibliomania and bibliophilia fun and interesting. My grandmother was an amateur bookbinder. I once had a dealer call me because he'd identified a lovely leatherbound copy of The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English as her work. It was, of course, both a thoughtful gesture and reflective of good business instincts. Almost needless to say, not only did the dealer made a quick sale— he also established a lot of goodwill.

 

[oggbashan]

Years ago, in the 1950s, one of my shop's customers worked in Hong Kong.

When he was promoted to London, he sorted out his belongings, including his library of books, and sent them by sea to his parents' home address.

The crate of books never arrived.

He had a typewritten list of the books he had sent, and lost. When he retired he decided that he would like to replace that lost library. He moved to my town about five years after he had retired. By that time he had replaced about two-thirds of his library. I provided a free booksearch service so he asked me for help to find the missing third.

I found a few, and then I received an email from a dealer in Cornwall. He had about ten of the missing titles. Was my customer interested? Of course he was.

When the books arrived they were the exact copies that he had sent to England from Hong Kong, complete with his name in every one. A phone call to the dealer, and we acquired another thirty of his original books.

How they ended up in Cornwall? No one knows. The dealer had bought them in a local auction about five years earlier along with several hundred other, unrelated books.

Og

 

[driphoney]

You are, of course, speaking of books. It's a pain in the arse when one is reading a book and encounters uncut pages.


As Og will tell you, whether the pages of a book are cut or uncut is another aspect of condition that will affect a book's value. A reputable dealer's description should mention the presence of uncut pages.

Why, of course! Of course.

The blue is a nice change, by the way. Much easier on my eyes.

I have a copy of Shakespeare's Complete Works with uncut pages.

It is my most valued book. Why?

Because it was a prize presented to my grandfather at school. It is the only thing I have that was his, and I bought it as part of a large job-lot of books in my bookshop. That was serendipity.

The reason that it remains uncut is because he already had a complete Shakespeare, a better edition, and didn't need another one.

Og

This is amazing and wonderful. See, to me, all the value in that book is the personal connection and the story. Priceless.

I don't really understand the whole un-cut book thing. I'll have to google.

I'm a bum with books. Nothing gives me more joy than getting a bargain at the used bookstore. I want it to hold together long enough for me to read it ... and maybe pass it on. I want it to fit in my purse. I want to be able to bend it to pieces, spill my burrito on it, lay on the ground with it, toss it on the floor of my car, if needed, rabbit-ear it, and in the case of textbooks underline the hell out of them. It's abuse full of affection.

 

[trysail]

Years ago, in the 1950s, one of my shop's customers worked in Hong Kong.

When he was promoted to London, he sorted out his belongings, including his library of books, and sent them by sea to his parents' home address.

The crate of books never arrived.

He had a typewritten list of the books he had sent, and lost. When he retired he decided that he would like to replace that lost library. He moved to my town about five years after he had retired. By that time he had replaced about two-thirds of his library. I provided a free booksearch service so he asked me for help to find the missing third.

I found a few, and then I received an email from a dealer in Cornwall. He had about ten of the missing titles. Was my customer interested? Of course he was.

When the books arrived they were the exact copies that he had sent to England from Hong Kong, complete with his name in every one. A phone call to the dealer, and we acquired another thirty of his original books.

How they ended up in Cornwall? No one knows. The dealer had bought them in a local auction about five years earlier along with several hundred other, unrelated books.

Og

Hah! Do the Cornish still engage in the practice of piracy by luring unsuspecting mariners to wreck their ships on the Cornish coast by means of false lights and navigation signals?

 

[oggbashan]

Hah! Do the Cornish still engage in the practice of piracy by luring unsuspecting mariners to wreck their ships on the Cornish coast by means of false lights and navigation signals?

Modern research suggests that they never did.

They didn't have to. Ships wrecked themselves on the Cornish coast without artificial help.

There have been two recent flotsam cases in the South of England that led to significant looting of the cargo. In one containers of brand new BMW motorcycles came ashore. Those that "found" them, could get to own them by paying a nominal sum to the insurers.

In the other, a ship lost its deck cargo of timber. Hundreds of tons of timber washed ashore around the Sussex and Kent coasts. The beaches were cleared of the debris within a few days despite the Coastguard, Customs and Police. Again, a nominal sum paid to the insurers made the salvage legitimate. Several houses around the South East coast acquired new decking, sheds, pergolas and summer houses.

Og

 

[oggbashan]

Why, of course! Of course.

The blue is a nice change, by the way. Much easier on my eyes.



This is amazing and wonderful. See, to me, all the value in that book is the personal connection and the story. Priceless.

I don't really understand the whole un-cut book thing. I'll have to google.

I'm a bum with books. Nothing gives me more joy than getting a bargain at the used bookstore. I want it to hold together long enough for me to read it ... and maybe pass it on. I want it to fit in my purse. I want to be able to bend it to pieces, spill my burrito on it, lay on the ground with it, toss it on the floor of my car, if needed, rabbit-ear it, and in the case of textbooks underline the hell out of them. N It's abuse full of affection.

The trade value of my grandfather's Shakespeare is about three pounds. But to me? A priceless heirloom.

Uncut books was a fashionable trend. If you bought an uncut book and had to cut open the pages yourself, then you were supposed to be a "true booklover". Rubbish! It was just one way of trying to produce an antique feel to a new book. But the book, secondhand, is more valuable if the uncut pages have remained unopened.

Most books, particularly paperbacks, are disposable items. Why should you treat a paperback book, produced in millions, any better than a monthly magazine that you would throw away (or preferably recycle)?

But there are different types of booklovers:

6. Book Buyers

6.1 Most people who buy books buy them to read.
Seems a statement of the obvious? It is true for most of the people who will come into a book shop. If they are not buying books to read themselves they might be buying for a friend or relation to read. Probably 90% of those coming into a bookshop are buying books to be read.

6.2 People who buy First Editions don’t read them
A First Edition has value because it is a First Edition and its value depends on its condition. An ideal First Edition has a perfect dustwrapper around a perfect book and has never been read. Reading a First Edition would devalue it by opening the pages and loosening the spine. A First Edition is an object to be appreciated, NOT a book to be read. If the First Edition owner wants to read that book, they would probably already own a later edition or a cheap paperback reprint.

6.3 People buy books as status symbols
Coffee table books and expensive Art Books are often bought to display, not to read. They are items of furniture to give the impression that the owner is cultured and up-market.

Old leather-bound books can be bought as decoration, to furnish a room. There is a picture of the Duke of Windsor in his Paris apartment after the Abdication, posed against a wall of books. The photograph is so clear that the book titles can be read. The books are obviously arranged by size, not subject, and have expensive bindings but are titles such as “The Transactions of the Society of Accountants 1927-8” next to four volumes of the Bible in French and bound copies of The National Geographic. The size and bindings match but there is no other logic to the arrangement of books.

The same thing can often been seen when people are interviewed on television. Behind them is a wall of books to show how erudite they are. Some of those interviewed are in front of their own collection so the books are sorted by class and type. Others just have a random selection of books just for their looks as wall decoration.

Extract from a talk I give to charity shop volunteers:

I think there are five types of secondhand book buyers:

1. Readers. They want to read the book. It doesn’t usually matter to them whether it is a paperback, a hardback first edition or a hardback book club edition. They just want the words but if they are restricted for space at home they will prefer a paperback. Readers probably make up 90% of our sales.

2. Book Collectors. Their knowledge of a particular author is likely to be greater than any professional book dealer in their restricted field unless the book dealer is a specialist such as a local colleague who only sells 17th Century Protestant Polemic. A book collector will want ONLY books by a particular author usually in dustwrappered first editions. Unless we have those books he (usually he) won’t buy anything. They tend to want a bargain – an underpriced book that they know is more valuable than the price being asked. Book collectors can be a nuisance, wanting to be told if a particular book comes in.

3. Bibliophiles. They love books and will buy almost anything in good condition that they like the look of. They will consider unusual books if attractively presented. A bibliophile might well pay a high price for a good condition book.

4. Bibliomanics. They have an unreasonable passion for books and might spend more than they can afford accumulating books just to have a large number of books. Once I had to clear a bibliomanic’s house. He had books in piles in every room of a small terraced house. His relations had taken all the books they had wanted but had left three transit vans-full. Almost all were rubbish because for years he had visited jumble sales and bought every book left at the end, gone to boot fairs and made offers for all the books a stall holder had left. He had not selected anything and couldn’t bear to get rid of a single book even if he already had ten copies of it. Biblomanics can sometimes clear stock if it is cheap enough but we won’t make much money from them.

5. And last – professional book dealers. They might come into the shop and buy a significant quantity of books that they know they can resell at higher prices elsewhere. They might ask for a quantity discount of say 10% on the total. Most dealers won’t because they are buying from a charity shop, but some will. Please don’t dislike the professionals. You might think that they are making a profit from a charity but they can make a real difference to a day’s takings. If they can resell at a higher price it may be because they trade in Central London and can charge London prices – but they have to pay London shop rents and rates. If a dealer thinks that our shop is a worthwhile place to find stock that dealer will come back again and again and we make money from his purchases.

As I said at the start – I’m a reader. That is the best type to be if you want to sell books. A bibliomanic couldn’t part with a single book. To a collector or a bibliophile, selling books is like watching your children leave home – each one gone leaves a gap in your life.

Og

 

[xssve]

XSSVE

Your thesis is nonsense.

Capitalists replaced feudal land barons and elevated the status of labor from chicken-kicker and shit-shoveller to engineer and mechanic.

Today we're going backwards. Capitalists are replaced by merchants, and the mechanic flips burgers.

What is the aristocracy? They were, for the most part, clans and extended families that were able to occupy and defend a certain amount of territory, and monopolize the resources of that territory for sustenance and profit - that's capital, primitive capital, and when there were people living in their land, they too became tantamount to a natural resource - the Catholic Church had to step in and outlaw incest, because if one of your serf married a girl from another village, that lord could claim him as vassal: "he who treads my hens, is my Cock" - thus serfs were forbidden to travel outside the boundaries of the hold, even to look for wives, so guess what they did for wives?

What does a corporation do? Ford, in his day owned the mines where the iron ore was mined, the foundries that turned it into steel, the rubber plantations that supplied the rubber for the tires, etc., even the ships and trains that transported all of this.

He was able to do that because nobody else was doing it, he had no competition, nothing like that will ever happen again, instead we have conglomerates.

And, when Ford reasoned that if he didn't pay his workers a reasonable salary, they wouldn't be able to afford his cars, he was the subject of a great deal of criticism from his industrial revolution peers - read my fucking sig there Fred, that's the great Capitalist J.P. Morgan in the best tradition of Machiavelli.

Business is, pretty much by definition, the accumulation of capital, capitalism is the justification for accumulating more capital than you reasonably need, which, by definition represents surplus labor, and there are some well defined arguments for and against, known problems - to what extent is it even it' either a free for all and we end up eating each other, or we figure out some civilized way of doing it that benefits everybody, not just those in the right place at the right time, and then tries to make that somehow seem like an heritable quality of character.

Adam Smith devotes some pretty intricate thinking to the entire question of wages - the "Capitalists" you refer to had virtually no competition, the corporations don't want any - the big difference then was, if you wanted to go off and raise you own food, you could - 3/4 of the country lived off the grid in those days - the only frontiers left are abstract: philosophy, Social Engineering: call it whatever you want - once there was an overpopulated world, and somebody found an entire continent of people who had never heard of gunpowder, colonialism or organized warfare - but that was then, this is now - we're back to square one, and there aren't any more New Worlds.

Amicus is typical, why does he sit and around and complain that nobody will let him have anything? Why, if he's such a rugged individualist, doesn't he just go take what he wants?

Cause somebody already did that, before he was even born, that's why - you can't buy Manhattan for a handful of beads these days, you're lucky if you can find a parking spot.

And you too, whining about some golden age, what good does it do you? It never was, shit never changes because people never change - if they fall in it, it because they're "superior", if they don't, its somebody else's fault - at most, you get a change in management once in while.

Even religion never changes - once upon a time a guy came along a said, "look, take out the dried fish and the crust you have hidden in your cloak and see if there isn't enough to go around" - and surprise, he was right.

Nobody listens to that guy though, the anonymous tight ass who wrote Deuteronomy is way more popular, and has inspired way more social engineering than is strictly called for.

Whatever, we all know you and ami aren't going to anything but stir shit, piss and moan, which makes the pair of you irrelevant - a lot of people have you on ignore, and I'm here to reassure them they haven't missed anything.

You guys are just like my dogs, yapping because some other dog a half mile away is yapping at something, and don't even know what they're yapping at.

 

[xssve]

This is cool, this is like an old school, NYT Live Editorial thread, where there were no individual topic threads - one thread for everybody - except there would upwards of about 3000 posts a day.

 

[driphoney]

This is cool, this is like an old school, NYT Live Editorial thread, where there were no individual topic threads - one thread for everybody - except there would upwards of about 3000 posts a day.

Free speech an' all.

I shamefully admit I kinda like it. My brain sorta works this way.

 

[amicus]

XSSVE

Your thesis is nonsense.

Capitalists replaced feudal land barons and elevated the status of labor from chicken-kicker and shit-shoveller to engineer and mechanic.

Today we're going backwards. Capitalists are replaced by merchants, and the mechanic flips burgers.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Thank you James, although I doubt many struggled through the convoluted thought process used to glorify a return to a pastoral, setting for humanity.

A simple concept, one that even xssve should comprehend, dealing with human ecomomic interaction, is the division of labor, implicit in a free economy.

A second, more difficult concept for the hive-minded, is to place value on human individual innovation; a product only, of a free, unfettered mind that seeks to find a better way to accomplish a task.

I am personally fond of the history of agriculture, especially American big businness agriculture, that feeds not just this nation, but half the world with our improved methods, mechanization, production and marketing procedures that has taken the burden from the backs of men and transferred it to air conditioned John Deere Harvesters and similar mechanized farm implements.

All of that and more created by the inexhaustible resourses of the human mind.

Left to her own devices, xssve would still be burning buffalo turds to warm her mealy worms.



ami

 

[JackLuis]

"Engineer this,! Oh please!"

http://www.wearehairy.com/models/Vanda/Voluptuous_milf_Vanda_rubs_her_bush/img/Vanda_WhiteTop_073.jpg

 

[amicus]

"...Amicus is typical, why does he sit and around and complain that nobody will let him have anything? Why, if he's such a rugged individualist, doesn't he just go take what he wants?.."

~~~

Well, unlike Oggbashan's unapologetic THREADJACK, you just use my thread to spout another round of Marxist economic litany; I realloy don't mind, the more people read of that trash the more receptive they are to truth and reality.

Dunno who you expect to believe the quote above, I pretty much did go out and EARN my yacht and my 14th floor condo on Waikiki beach, along with just about everry other material desire I ever had.

As I pointed out earlier, you left the human mind out of your equation, in terms of innovation, from the discovery of the 'arch' as an architectural factor to the invention of the PNP transistor. Another aspect of humankind, the essential defining characteristic of the species; the necessity of individuality, individual freedom and liberty; you also blithely flit on by, implying that hive-activity of the Borg, is the only way to go.

You have an interesting mind; if you ever rise above spouting the faith of your creed and actually use your mind, you might find it pleasureable.

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

XSSVE

Your thesis is nonsense.

Capitalists replaced feudal land barons and elevated the status of labor from chicken-kicker and shit-shoveller to engineer and mechanic.

Today we're going backwards. Capitalists are replaced by merchants, and the mechanic flips burgers.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Thank you James, although I doubt many struggled through the convoluted thought process used to glorify a return to a pastoral, setting for humanity.

A simple concept, one that even xssve should comprehend, dealing with human ecomomic interaction, is the division of labor, implicit in a free economy.

A second, more difficult concept for the hive-minded, is to place value on human individual innovation; a product only, of a free, unfettered mind that seeks to find a better way to accomplish a task.

I am personally fond of the history of agriculture, especially American big businness agriculture, that feeds not just this nation, but half the world with our improved methods, mechanization, production and marketing procedures that has taken the burden from the backs of men and transferred it to air conditioned John Deere Harvesters and similar mechanized farm implements.

All of that and more created by the inexhaustible resourses of the human mind.

Left to her own devices, xssve would still be burning buffalo turds to warm her mealy worms.



ami

I wont be surprised to learn she burns turds already, and thinks Prince Charles plea to stop bathing is inspired!

 

[amicus]

Nothing surprises me concerning the depth of depravity these perverts stoop to. They are like toddlers playing with themselves and making finger paintings with their poo; perhaps they should have a subforum to masturbate on all by themselves?

heh

ami

 

[Stella_Omega]

The trade value of my grandfather's Shakespeare is about three pounds. But to me? A priceless heirloom.

Uncut books was a fashionable trend. If you bought an uncut book and had to cut open the pages yourself, then you were supposed to be a "true booklover". Rubbish! It was just one way of trying to produce an antique feel to a new book. But the book, secondhand, is more valuable if the uncut pages have remained unopened.

Most books, particularly paperbacks, are disposable items. Why should you treat a paperback book, produced in millions, any better than a monthly magazine that you would throw away (or preferably recycle)?

But there are different types of booklovers:

6. Book Buyers

6.1 Most people who buy books buy them to read.
Seems a statement of the obvious? It is true for most of the people who will come into a book shop. If they are not buying books to read themselves they might be buying for a friend or relation to read. Probably 90% of those coming into a bookshop are buying books to be read.

6.2 People who buy First Editions don’t read them
A First Edition has value because it is a First Edition and its value depends on its condition. An ideal First Edition has a perfect dustwrapper around a perfect book and has never been read. Reading a First Edition would devalue it by opening the pages and loosening the spine. A First Edition is an object to be appreciated, NOT a book to be read. If the First Edition owner wants to read that book, they would probably already own a later edition or a cheap paperback reprint.

6.3 People buy books as status symbols
Coffee table books and expensive Art Books are often bought to display, not to read. They are items of furniture to give the impression that the owner is cultured and up-market.

Old leather-bound books can be bought as decoration, to furnish a room. There is a picture of the Duke of Windsor in his Paris apartment after the Abdication, posed against a wall of books. The photograph is so clear that the book titles can be read. The books are obviously arranged by size, not subject, and have expensive bindings but are titles such as “The Transactions of the Society of Accountants 1927-8” next to four volumes of the Bible in French and bound copies of The National Geographic. The size and bindings match but there is no other logic to the arrangement of books.

The same thing can often been seen when people are interviewed on television. Behind them is a wall of books to show how erudite they are. Some of those interviewed are in front of their own collection so the books are sorted by class and type. Others just have a random selection of books just for their looks as wall decoration.

Extract from a talk I give to charity shop volunteers:

I think there are five types of secondhand book buyers:

1. Readers. They want to read the book. It doesn’t usually matter to them whether it is a paperback, a hardback first edition or a hardback book club edition. They just want the words but if they are restricted for space at home they will prefer a paperback. Readers probably make up 90% of our sales.

2. Book Collectors. Their knowledge of a particular author is likely to be greater than any professional book dealer in their restricted field unless the book dealer is a specialist such as a local colleague who only sells 17th Century Protestant Polemic. A book collector will want ONLY books by a particular author usually in dustwrappered first editions. Unless we have those books he (usually he) won’t buy anything. They tend to want a bargain – an underpriced book that they know is more valuable than the price being asked. Book collectors can be a nuisance, wanting to be told if a particular book comes in.

3. Bibliophiles. They love books and will buy almost anything in good condition that they like the look of. They will consider unusual books if attractively presented. A bibliophile might well pay a high price for a good condition book.

4. Bibliomanics. They have an unreasonable passion for books and might spend more than they can afford accumulating books just to have a large number of books. Once I had to clear a bibliomanic’s house. He had books in piles in every room of a small terraced house. His relations had taken all the books they had wanted but had left three transit vans-full. Almost all were rubbish because for years he had visited jumble sales and bought every book left at the end, gone to boot fairs and made offers for all the books a stall holder had left. He had not selected anything and couldn’t bear to get rid of a single book even if he already had ten copies of it. Biblomanics can sometimes clear stock if it is cheap enough but we won’t make much money from them.

5. And last – professional book dealers. They might come into the shop and buy a significant quantity of books that they know they can resell at higher prices elsewhere. They might ask for a quantity discount of say 10% on the total. Most dealers won’t because they are buying from a charity shop, but some will. Please don’t dislike the professionals. You might think that they are making a profit from a charity but they can make a real difference to a day’s takings. If they can resell at a higher price it may be because they trade in Central London and can charge London prices – but they have to pay London shop rents and rates. If a dealer thinks that our shop is a worthwhile place to find stock that dealer will come back again and again and we make money from his purchases.

As I said at the start – I’m a reader. That is the best type to be if you want to sell books. A bibliomanic couldn’t part with a single book. To a collector or a bibliophile, selling books is like watching your children leave home – each one gone leaves a gap in your life.

Og

I'm part reader, part art collecter, I guess. I buy a lot of books qua objects in themselves, but the bulk I buy to be read.

 

[Boxlicker101]

The trade value of my grandfather's Shakespeare is about three pounds. But to me? A priceless heirloom.

Uncut books was a fashionable trend. If you bought an uncut book and had to cut open the pages yourself, then you were supposed to be a "true booklover". Rubbish! It was just one way of trying to produce an antique feel to a new book. But the book, secondhand, is more valuable if the uncut pages have remained unopened.

Most books, particularly paperbacks, are disposable items. Why should you treat a paperback book, produced in millions, any better than a monthly magazine that you would throw away (or preferably recycle)?

But there are different types of booklovers:

6. Book Buyers

6.1 Most people who buy books buy them to read.
Seems a statement of the obvious? It is true for most of the people who will come into a book shop. If they are not buying books to read themselves they might be buying for a friend or relation to read. Probably 90% of those coming into a bookshop are buying books to be read.

6.2 People who buy First Editions don’t read them
A First Edition has value because it is a First Edition and its value depends on its condition. An ideal First Edition has a perfect dustwrapper around a perfect book and has never been read. Reading a First Edition would devalue it by opening the pages and loosening the spine. A First Edition is an object to be appreciated, NOT a book to be read. If the First Edition owner wants to read that book, they would probably already own a later edition or a cheap paperback reprint.

6.3 People buy books as status symbols
Coffee table books and expensive Art Books are often bought to display, not to read. They are items of furniture to give the impression that the owner is cultured and up-market.

Old leather-bound books can be bought as decoration, to furnish a room. There is a picture of the Duke of Windsor in his Paris apartment after the Abdication, posed against a wall of books. The photograph is so clear that the book titles can be read. The books are obviously arranged by size, not subject, and have expensive bindings but are titles such as “The Transactions of the Society of Accountants 1927-8” next to four volumes of the Bible in French and bound copies of The National Geographic. The size and bindings match but there is no other logic to the arrangement of books.

The same thing can often been seen when people are interviewed on television. Behind them is a wall of books to show how erudite they are. Some of those interviewed are in front of their own collection so the books are sorted by class and type. Others just have a random selection of books just for their looks as wall decoration.

Extract from a talk I give to charity shop volunteers:

I think there are five types of secondhand book buyers:

1. Readers. They want to read the book. It doesn’t usually matter to them whether it is a paperback, a hardback first edition or a hardback book club edition. They just want the words but if they are restricted for space at home they will prefer a paperback. Readers probably make up 90% of our sales.

2. Book Collectors. Their knowledge of a particular author is likely to be greater than any professional book dealer in their restricted field unless the book dealer is a specialist such as a local colleague who only sells 17th Century Protestant Polemic. A book collector will want ONLY books by a particular author usually in dustwrappered first editions. Unless we have those books he (usually he) won’t buy anything. They tend to want a bargain – an underpriced book that they know is more valuable than the price being asked. Book collectors can be a nuisance, wanting to be told if a particular book comes in.

3. Bibliophiles. They love books and will buy almost anything in good condition that they like the look of. They will consider unusual books if attractively presented. A bibliophile might well pay a high price for a good condition book.

4. Bibliomanics. They have an unreasonable passion for books and might spend more than they can afford accumulating books just to have a large number of books. Once I had to clear a bibliomanic’s house. He had books in piles in every room of a small terraced house. His relations had taken all the books they had wanted but had left three transit vans-full. Almost all were rubbish because for years he had visited jumble sales and bought every book left at the end, gone to boot fairs and made offers for all the books a stall holder had left. He had not selected anything and couldn’t bear to get rid of a single book even if he already had ten copies of it. Biblomanics can sometimes clear stock if it is cheap enough but we won’t make much money from them.

5. And last – professional book dealers. They might come into the shop and buy a significant quantity of books that they know they can resell at higher prices elsewhere. They might ask for a quantity discount of say 10% on the total. Most dealers won’t because they are buying from a charity shop, but some will. Please don’t dislike the professionals. You might think that they are making a profit from a charity but they can make a real difference to a day’s takings. If they can resell at a higher price it may be because they trade in Central London and can charge London prices – but they have to pay London shop rents and rates. If a dealer thinks that our shop is a worthwhile place to find stock that dealer will come back again and again and we make money from his purchases.

As I said at the start – I’m a reader. That is the best type to be if you want to sell books. A bibliomanic couldn’t part with a single book. To a collector or a bibliophile, selling books is like watching your children leave home – each one gone leaves a gap in your life.

Og

There is at least one more class - students who buy books for their Uni. classes or just because they are interested in knowing more about a particular subject. And, or course, there are reference books.

 

[amicus]

Social Engineering takes place by insidious methodology especially on the young through the public indoctrination system of education.

For example, an economics major in college, may go through the entire four year course and never study a classical, free market economist or the mechanics of capitalism. Instead, the courses offered are all Keynsian or Marxist and offer the graduating student no background with which to deal with the real world of business.

If you have a son or daughter in college, ask them about Ludwig Von Mises or any other Classical economist and see what you are getting for your tuition money.

Amicus

 

[Stella_Omega]

There is at least one more class - students who buy books for their Uni. classes or just because they are interested in knowing more about a particular subject. And, or course, there are reference books.

Even some reference books are desirable as objects. I have a neurobiology textbook that is simply beautiful-- as well as invaluable to my work. (no, I'm not studying to become a neurobiologist!

 

[Trudy_Antone]

It goes like this
Our game seems fairly straightforward and logical. But for outsiders observing our big day, things are a little more complicated.
A television audience of millions of people could be watching the Grand Final MCG action from all over the world. It is the little things we take for granted that will really stand out to these first-time viewers.
Look no further than the opening images of an AFL broadcast - the two teams running through a giant wall of crepe paper and sticky tape? What's going on here?
The athletes burst through and jog around. These guys aren't skinny soccer player types, nor do they have massive thick-set gridiron physiques. They look like decathletes - strong and powerful, but capable of enduring gruelling physical workouts.
Suddenly, a mass of umpires appears - not one with a couple of linesmen, but six with a couple of blokes in white laboratory coats and lawn bowling hats. One holds a ball up at precisely the same time a siren sounds. Why? Didn't they test if the siren worked before anyone turned up this morning?
The two captains meet in the centre for the traditional coin toss. Who's the person tossing the coin - a former champion or a champion's family member? Nup - some lucky punter who won a competition!
Ah, a bit of international normality - the two sides line up for the national anthem. No swapping of club pennants or team photos though.
Players and officials scatter as the crowd reaches fever pitch. One umpire holds the ball aloft for the siren to sound again - ah, now I see - they were just practising before!
The game starts and players thunder into each other, in what initially seems like a mass of stampeding buffalo.
But wait - they have forgotten to put their padding on. Surely someone will get seriously hurt unless we stop and allow them to don their protective equipment. What? No padding?
A pack of men jumps up on the back of some poor guy at the front - the crowd roars as a player somehow comes down with the ball.
Surely that guy at the front will have to come off for treatment. He copped a knee in the back of the head and his game may even be over. What? He gives it a rub and charges off again.
Some guy gets crunched by a flying tackle. The crowd erupts with a united scream of "b-a-a-l-l-l! ... Y-e-e-s-s-s!!"
While he stumbles to his feet and picks the dirt out of his eye sockets, the tackler takes a few steps backward and surveys the mass of players circling in front of him.
Some have their hands in the air, others are pointing at them, while some just seem to run and point at nothing in particular. Is this some form of mating ritual or contemporary line-dance?
Eventually, the guy with the ball does a bit of pointing of his own, before launching into a thunderous kick that sees the ball disappear up beyond the top of the television screen.
When it emerges on the opposite side of the picture, there are 15 guys standing in a small rectangle in front of a couple of tall posts and a couple of junior posts that obviously haven't grown up yet.
And then one of the blokes in a lab coat and bowling hat appears behind them. He arches his back, looks around for an extended pause and then makes some sort of wild-west, pistol-drawing motion with both index fingers.
The crowd erupts. A group of people with strangely painted faces shake what look like giant masses of cut-up crepe paper on the end of the long sticks! What? That is crepe paper and sticks? Why?
Hang on. The bloke in the hat is doing some sort of Riverdance move with a couple of white flags! Fantastic - what does that mean? A goal! Ah, now we're getting somewhere.
RUSSELL MORRIS played 93 games with Hawthorn and 63 games with St Kilda, retiring in 1994.

Love you Ogg!!!
And GO the Fremantle Dockers!

 

[oggbashan]

There is at least one more class - students who buy books for their Uni. classes or just because they are interested in knowing more about a particular subject. And, or course, there are reference books.

I know. I didn't include them because the students' books rarely turn up in charity book shops in the edition they need, and the reference books are out of date. Reference books for Law are the worst. Last year's edition is useless. When I opened my bookshop my solicitor gave me about 90 of his out-of-date volumes. They looked wonderful. Eventually I sold them to a newly-qualified solicitor's mother. He used them to decorate his office. The senior partner had 17th and 18th Century law books on his walls. The junior partner had 19th Century books. The new recruit had apparently up-to-date law books - but the clerk kept the library which all the solicitors actually used.

Recently I priced two encyclopedia sets, one of 1914, the other of 1907 which refers to the Wright Brothers' "experiments with gliders". The sets are only saleable as shelf decoration or for historic interest. There would be few potential buyers because of the shelf space needed to display them.

Og

 

[ishtat]

Used by the Australian government until the 50's early 60's. The Stolen Generation, whitish aboriginal children, taken from their families, trained to be servants, in the hopes that the station owner or his white hands would beget children on them, eventually breeding out the black.

Firstly the Australian government had no constitutional power to deal with aboriginal issues until 1968. Until then Aboriginal affairs were largely a States matter.

Secondly can you cite a single authoritative source to support your contention that it was government policy to breed out blackness?

I agree that Australia's treatment of aborigines has been appalling but you do them no service with sloppy and incorrect allegations. There is plenty of hard evidence to support your point so don't make it up; that discredits your argument.

 

[cloudy]

Firstly the Australian government had no constitutional power to deal with aboriginal issues until 1968. Until then Aboriginal affairs were largely a States matter.

Secondly can you cite a single authoritative source to support your contention that it was government policy to breed out blackness?

I agree that Australia's treatment of aborigines has been appalling but you do them no service with sloppy and incorrect allegations. There is plenty of hard evidence to support your point so don't make it up; that discredits your argument.

From Time Magazine: The Stolen Generation

A relevant paragraph:

The policy of "stealing" Aboriginal children, mostly those with some white blood, was devised in the early 1900s when eugenic theories were widely touted. In Australia government administrators thought that by bringing mixed-blood Aborigines into the white world, the color could be "bred out of them" over a few generations. Meanwhile the fully black population, regarded as irredeemably primitive, was expected to simply die out. The practice was not widely discussed until 1997, when an official inquiry found consistent patterns of physical and sexual abuse of the "stolen" children, of exploitation in the labor market and of social dislocation that led many into alcoholism, violence and early death.

Basically the same thing happened in Canada and the U.S., as well, but no one talks about it here in the States. It's the "dirty little secret" no one talks about and no one takes responsibility for.

In Canada it was called the 60's Scoop:

Statistics from the Department of Indian Affairs reveal a total of 11,132 status Indian children adopted between the years of 1960 and 1990. It is believed, however, that the actual numbers are much higher than that. While Indian Affairs recorded adoptions of ’status’ native children, many native children were not recorded as ’status’ in adoption or foster care records. Indeed, many ’status’ children were not recorded as status after adoption. Of these children who were adopted, 70% were adopted into non-native homes.

The exact same thing happened in the States: children were forcibly taken from their parents, their hair chopped off and forbidden to speak their own language. Their cultural identity was gone.

Many of the boarding school kids were adopted into families later (if they were young enough), but not to Native families...only to white families.

Surely you're aware of all this? And please...don't tell me I have no evidence of this. I see the evidence around me every single day, since my SO was a victim of the boarding school system that finally died in the 1970's.