Another reason why BDSM will never gain acceptance in the US

[teknight]

Avoid terms with a history of pejorative use, unless you are deliberately trying to insult.

That's my advice, take it or leave it.

Look, that's your preference. Frankly it makes you sound smug and thus uncool. That's my observation, but don't take it, leave it.


How far back should this history go? And, if you were to direct your eyeballs to the posts above, you'll notice than in the present some are ok with being called chicks. Fuck! Some will bristle at being called ladies. Some pride themselves for being bitches. YMMV, but the spectrum's wide open, and there are so many factors. By taking so much care in not offending them, you're making it sound like you view women as some sort of defenseless little dears, who needs my care to live and thrive, who'll be crushed by my misuse of language (see, it's the interwebs, I can exaggerate and make assumptions without knowing jack about you). I don't want that! I don't want a doll, I want a human being. Are you in fact sexist?


I get it. You respect women, you cherish them, you treasure them. Cool. Same here, but my temple's built by a whole other architect, my cult's not rigid (that could never be misinterpreted on Lit ). To put in slang that will probably make your haughty skin crawl, it ain't how I roll.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So you're saying I should call women roses? No, that'd insult them, for roses come with thorns. Goddesses? No, 'cause those bitches were crazy sluts (at least in Greek mythology). Angels? No, 'cause they could never live up to the ideal.

Be explicit, will you?

I just had a crazy thought--
Call them women.



A woman (pl: women) is a female human. The term woman is usually reserved for an adult, with the term girl being the usual term for a female child or adolescent. However, the term woman is also sometimes used to identify a female human, regardless of age, as in phrases such as "Women's rights".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman

That fits perfectly!

ETA; You're being embarrassingly defensive and an asshole in the post just above this one. FYI.

 

[teknight]

In other news: will widespread acceptance of BDSM help me not give a shit about random posts I read online?

I don't quite mean the following, but, I apologize. I hate stupid, but I do it oh so well.

 

[teknight]

I just had a crazy thought--
Call them women.



A woman (pl: women) is a female human. The term woman is usually reserved for an adult, with the term girl being the usual term for a female child or adolescent. However, the term woman is also sometimes used to identify a female human, regardless of age, as in phrases such as "Women's rights".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman

That fits perfectly!

ETA; You're being embarrassingly defensive and an asshole in the post just above this one. FYI.

I address that in the post below this one.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I address that in the post below this one.

I think the phrase you were groping for is;

"I apologise"

 

[graceanne]

Honestly, while I think tek over reacted a bit I don't blame him. He's butting his head against the pc wall, and getting annoyed and frustrated. People need to SERIOUSLY chill out.

This, among other reasons, is why I do not throw myself in the 'feminist' boat. You can call a MAN a guy and a dude, but you have to call chicks WOMEN. The other that comes immediately to mind is it's okay for women to act badly because men have done it for years.

Acting badly is acting badly. There is no excuse.

 

[JMohegan]

Honestly, while I think tek over reacted a bit I don't blame him. He's butting his head against the pc wall, and getting annoyed and frustrated. People need to SERIOUSLY chill out.

I'm not upset in the slightest.

He's a Romanian practicing English on the Internet. I wasn't trying to bash him on the head with the PC stick; I was giving feedback on particular phraseology. Not saying "how dare you offend women," but saying "this is what your use of the term makes you sound like."

 

[Stella_Omega]

Honestly, while I think tek over reacted a bit I don't blame him. He's butting his head against the pc wall, and getting annoyed and frustrated. People need to SERIOUSLY chill out.

This, among other reasons, is why I do not throw myself in the 'feminist' boat. You can call a MAN a guy and a dude, but you have to call chicks WOMEN. The other that comes immediately to mind is it's okay for women to act badly because men have done it for years.

Acting badly is acting badly. There is no excuse.

I make no excuse about it.

It's true. I have centuries of acting badly to enjoy before I catch up with men. That is definitely a factor for me. I am not a saint, and I don't ever intend to be one. I am absolutely chewing on my pound of flesh.

BUT that is not what defines me as a feminist. It defines me as a person who indulges in the sin of anger or something, if you will.

And in many ways my anger is a side effect of my feminism.

My feminism, however, is a side effect of being born with a pussy.

 

[Netzach]

I admit complete ignorance here- is it wrong of him to want an attractive Domme? Or was he being too picky?

Does the pretense of subjecting yourself to a woman get a little stupid when you're looking over her teeth like you're buying a horse? There's nothing wrong with wanting not to be turned off by a person when you're paying to be turned on, but it can be carried to an absurd point, some men in that venue were.

 

[Netzach]

It's true. I have centuries of acting badly to enjoy before I catch up with men. That is definitely a factor for me. I am not a saint, and I don't ever intend to be one. I am absolutely chewing on my pound of flesh. And I make no excuse about it.

BUT that is not what defines me as a feminist. It defines me as a person who indulges in the sin of anger or something, if you will. And in many ways my anger is a side effect of my feminism. My feminism, however, is a side effect of being born with a pussy.

This. Exactly.

 

[satindesire]

Tek, take the recent rash of posts to understand that people will take all kinds of things way more seriously than you sometimes, and you just gotta roll with the punches. It's really easy to let feelings get hurt, especially when talking about subjects as controversial as this one. Don't take it personally, because their perspective is different from yours doesn't mean you're a bad person or anything like that.

 

[FungiUg]

I just had a crazy thought--
Call them women.

I remember when wymyn were all the rage because the "woman" has the word "man" in it, which is of course, derogatory.

I think any term of endearment can be offensive to someone. I've seen arguments over the word "dear", the word "honey"... *shrug*

Sometimes, people just take offense where they will.

Did you know that the word "vagina" (the medical term) was actually latin slang, and that the origin of the word is what we would now call a sheath? The meaning of words do change.

Tune in tomorrow for more random, barely associated thoughts.

 

[FungiUg]

I have centuries of acting badly to enjoy before I catch up with men.

Well, that assumes that women were not acting badly while the men were. Really?

It's pointless to blame either gender for humanity's faults. The truth is that humans at time well and truly suck. I can point you at a thread here in Literotica that's all about women sucking.

Of course, I am male. I may be a leeetle bit biased.

 

[JMohegan]

I remember when wymyn were all the rage because the "woman" has the word "man" in it, which is of course, derogatory.

I think any term of endearment can be offensive to someone. I've seen arguments over the word "dear", the word "honey"... *shrug*

Sometimes, people just take offense where they will.

Did you know that the word "vagina" (the medical term) was actually latin slang, and that the origin of the word is what we would now call a sheath? The meaning of words do change.

Tune in tomorrow for more random, barely associated thoughts.

I was living and working at a very large consulting firm in NY when a guy moved up from the southern U.S. to join our firm.

Smart guy, friendly guy, not a jerk. Southern.

At first, he called all females "honey" or "darlin'." Peers, secretaries, and clients. But only at first, because after it was explained to him that those terms are generally only used by sexist pricks and condescending assholes in the north, he stopped. He knew he wasn't a prick or an asshole, but didn't want to be perceived as such.

You're right that the meanings of words change over time. But they also vary markedly from place to place.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, that assumes that women were not acting badly while the men were. Really?

It's pointless to blame either gender for humanity's faults. The truth is that humans at time well and truly suck. I can point you at a thread here in Literotica that's all about women sucking.

Of course, I am male. I may be a leeetle bit biased.

You're confusing, of course, interpersonal power dynamics with institutional power usages. Most men do when they start singing this song, in the way that so many white folk bemoan "reverse racism" when they see some person of color getting a decent share of the pie.

Yep-- humans suck on occasion, male and female. I do not mind being a human that sucks once in a while. What i was objecting to in graceanne's post was the notion that I should be so saintly and refrain from suckage on account of being a feminist. Or that being feminist explains my sucking.

I do mind being sucked, so to speak, on account of what I have between my legs-- unwillingly have it, no less. And I am old enough to remember vividly being a girl and watching boys take priority for no other reason then that they were male.

I do blame the male hegemony for that. I'm female, I'm a leetle bit biased.

 

[graceanne]

I'm not upset in the slightest.

He's a Romanian practicing English on the Internet. I wasn't trying to bash him on the head with the PC stick; I was giving feedback on particular phraseology. Not saying "how dare you offend women," but saying "this is what your use of the term makes you sound like."

He's Romanian?

Where's it say that?

My feminism, however, is a side effect of being born with a pussy.

I was born with a pussy and I am not a feminist. And this is why.

 

[Stella_Omega]

He's Romanian?

Where's it say that?

Some earlier post...Actually I chat with him most days as well-- funny nice guy but a bit of a drama queen (Yeah tek I know what you're gonna say)

I was born with a pussy and I am not a feminist. And this is why.

Why what?

 

[graceanne]

Some earlier post...Actually I chat with him most days as well-- funny nice guy but a bit of a drama queen (Yeah tek I know what you're gonna say)

Oh. I totally missed that. lol

Why what?

I'm not a feminist. I don't think chronic anger is healthy. No one is worth making me so angry that I'm going to excuse bad behavior in myself.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh. I totally missed that. lol



I'm not a feminist. I don't think chronic anger is healthy. No one is worth making me so angry that I'm going to excuse bad behavior in myself.

so.. The problem with being a feminist is bad manners.

Hmm.

Oookay.

 

[graceanne]

so.. The problem with being a feminist is bad manners.

Hmm.

Oookay.

That's not what I said. What I said is that most people I know who consider themselves 'feminists' are just angry. Feminism is routinely used as an excuse to act badly.

It's bad enough that I have to call myself a Christian, because I can't find a phrase that I feel fits me better and doesn't have nasty connotations that aren't me.

I'm getting to where I dislike labels of all kinds. *sigh*

And it's actually just one of the reasons I don't use 'feminism' as a title for myself. *shrugs*

 

[satindesire]

so.. The problem with being a feminist is bad manners.

Hmm.

Oookay.

No, the problem with women with bad manners is they'll use 'feminism' as an excuse.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That's not what I said. What I said is that most people I know who consider themselves 'feminists' are just angry. Feminism is routinely used as an excuse to act badly.

I know some women like that, too. I know men who use feminism (hatred of) as an excuse to act badly, too. It's funny how these things work out.

It's bad enough that I have to call myself a Christian, because I can't find a phrase that I feel fits me better and doesn't have nasty connotations that aren't me.

I'm getting to where I dislike labels of all kinds. *sigh*

And it's actually just one of the reasons I don't use 'feminism' as a title for myself. *shrugs*

wait-- are you saying that you are some form of feminist, if only the particular label of "feminism" wasn't so tainted with bad manners?

Look I don't think being "chronically angry" is good for the health either. But the alternative is apathy, because there are things in this life of mine that are not going to change, and there just isn't any serenity there. Ignoring them sends me into some nasty, suicidal places. believe me on this. I would rather be considered unmannerly than be dead.

And you can refuse the benefits of the battles that feminism has won, if you want to. but remember that, at least, you have the right to make that decision-- you can say 'yes" or "no"based on your individual abilities and preferences, where fifty years ago you would have had zero choice based on your sex.

That individuality was achieved, for your benefit, at the cost of good manners.

 

[BiBunny]

I consider myself a feminist, but I'm a lot more angry about the way I'm treated as a step above poor white trash than the way I'm treated as a woman. Just for the record.

 

[ImOnIt]

I make no excuse about it.

It's true. I have centuries of acting badly to enjoy before I catch up with men. That is definitely a factor for me. I am not a saint, and I don't ever intend to be one. I am absolutely chewing on my pound of flesh.

BUT that is not what defines me as a feminist. It defines me as a person who indulges in the sin of anger or something, if you will.

And in many ways my anger is a side effect of my feminism.

My feminism, however, is a side effect of being born with a pussy.

Centuries? Personally? What rot. There is no cosmic correction that repays historic wrongs, real or imagined.

The descendant of the people who killed my ancestors owe me nothing, and to imagine they do is absolutely misguided.

No, the problem with women with bad behaviour is they'll use 'feminism' as an excuse.

Quoting satin here.

Also, you've taken Grace's reference to 'bad behaviour' and chosen to interpret that as 'bad manners'.

PS - I think I read you condoning satin's mother? stepmother? for being a shitty human being. That rankles with me. It's not like 'Yeah you go girl'. Being lazy (and or scum) is not praiseworthy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I consider myself a feminist, but I'm a lot more angry about the way I'm treated as a step above poor white trash than the way I'm treated as a woman. Just for the record.

yeah, intersectionality makes everything harder... And feminism has had a nasty history of racism on the side. And homophobia. And transphobia, ghawdsnose.

PS - I think I read you condoning satin's mother? stepmother? for being a shitty human being. That rankles with me. It's not like 'Yeah you go girl'. Being lazy (and or scum) is not praiseworthy.

I think you didn't read further.