New Breed of Hero? Evelyn Salt and Lisbeth Salander

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Fiel a Verdad
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What's one to make of these women. I've only seen the latter in film, but the book "Girl with the Dragon Tatoo" is a bestseller in US and Europe. She's slender, intense, wounded, a loner: brilliant, sexy/sexual, but not wanting much by way of tenderness. Of course, she's out to avenge injustice, starting with that against her.
That last is perhaps a source of her appeal.

What's the appeal of these women? How do they compare with female hero or strong figures in recent books and movies? Torregrosa invokes "La Femme Nikita," Ellen Ripley ( Sigourney Weaver) in "Alien," and Beatrix Kiddo ( Uma Thurman) in " Kill Bill."
In my opinion, Femme Nikita seems closest; Ellen Ripley is the same in cool courage and boldness, but is a scientist within the establishment.



http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/11/opinion/la-oe-torregrosa-superwomen-20100811

A new breed of superhero


Are Salt and Salander the new cinematic models of millennial femininity? Or are they sexual yet coldblooded, putting violent careers above the gentler pleasures of womanhood?

By Luisita Lopez Torregrosa

August 11, 2010


Warrior princesses, in comic book folklore, films and TV series, slay armies singlehandedly, wielding their swords and their brains, riding their fabulous horses (or racing on foot) and occasionally allowing themselves a romantic turn. But never does sex, romance or girlie frailty get in the way of the mission: Kill the enemy, stand and conquer.

And so it is today, in this summer of female action heroes. I am talking about Angelina Jolie as the protean CIA undercover agent Evelyn Salt in the film "Salt," and Noomi Rapace as Lisbeth Salander, the enigmatic bisexual computer genius in the fiction monster hit of our young decade, Stieg Larsson's "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" and its sequels, "The Girl Who Played With Fire" and "The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest."

Jolie, who made her action-hero mark as the leather-clad archaeologist Lara Croft in the box-office hit "Tomb Raider" movies, has turned the action up several notches as an icy-hot American operative accused of being a Russian sleeper agent. She had joked about wanting to play James Bond but may have gotten something better: a role originally written for Tom Cruise. Jolie transforms the testosterone-and-octane Salt into a more compelling and intriguing character than any of the action-hero boys could've done — yes, even more exciting than Jason Bourne, on whom Salt is pretty much modeled.



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Salander is something else altogether. Frail and small (less than 90 pounds, under 5 feet tall), she's antisocial, sullen, cynical. She fears nothing. She outwits assassins. She outruns and outsmarts hired thugs and cretins. She learned cruelty early — as a child, her mother was abused — and grows up distrustful, reclusive, elusive and dangerous. She is a loner, a solo act. She has a certain androgynous beauty, a pierced and tattooed body, chopped-up dark hair, and she treats sex as an exercise, without emotion or sentiment attached to it, here one night, gone the next.

Salt and Salander flip conventional notions of gender roles.

Are these women the new models of millennial femininity? Do they sacrifice being "real" women — with boyfriends, husbands, kids — to fit a male fantasy ( Phillip Noyce's, the director of "Salt," and Larsson's, respectively)? Or are Salt and Salander the right ideal: brainy, independent, physically and emotionally tough, sexual but coldblooded? The movie critic Owen Gleiberman declared them "the new normal." But are they?

While a Tom Cruise action character could have a wife and kids, Evelyn Salt could not. Mothers define attachments; they aren't free to run for their lives. No mother would walk on a narrow ledge way above the ground or jump from a bridge railing onto a speeding truck below or wipe out a gang of Russian killers without breaking a sweat, mowing them down like a row of toy ducks at the country fair, after she watches them kill her husband with a shot to the head. Evelyn Salt had to be childless and a widow. Among reviewers and bloggers and commenters and my friends, women are split on this thing about Salt and Salander. Men swoon over Salt and back up Salander, but women are not so sure. Some adore Salander and, to a lesser extent, Salt. Some see them as weird, narcissistic and heartless, putting their careers — killing (mostly) bad people, saving the world — above the gentler pleasures of womanhood. And many women, while applauding Salt's guts and Salander's sang-froid, take it all in as just pulse-racing entertainment, a Saturday matinee fantasy.

Fitting females to these kinds of violent, physical heroics is rare in the Western canon dating to the Greeks and Romans. But since the mid-20th century, as Western women made strides toward political equality, there have been plenty of antecedents for Salt and Salander: "Xena, Warrior Princess," the "Powerpuff Girls," "Wonder Woman," Sarah Connor in "The Terminator," "La Femme Nikita," Ellen Ripley ( Sigourney Weaver) in "Alien," Beatrix Kiddo ( Uma Thurman) in " Kill Bill." It can't be an accident of timing.

And whether Salt and Salander are women as imagined by men may not really be important in the end. I believe that they are idealized women — even if we don't want to kill people, in real life, we want to be as cool, competent, in control and right as they are. These outsize characters strike a chord deep in us — that's why we fill the theaters for "Salt" and why we buy Larsson's books by the millions.

This summer in particular. On cable there's Annie Walker ( Piper Perabo), the muscled blonde beauty who plays an undercover spy in the new USA show "Covert Affairs." There's Jane Rizzoli ( Angie Harmon) in TNT's new hit drama "Rizzoli & Isles," who shoots, thinks and moves like the toughest cop around, all the while ignoring or unaware that she is drop-dead gorgeous (like Jolie in "Salt," whose beauty and sexuality are subsumed to the action).

None of these women are domesticated. They run with wolves, usually alone, sometimes in pairs, but always ahead of the game. In our dreams — and in our fears.

Luisita Lopez Torregrosa, a former editor at the New York Times, writes for Politics Daily, the International Herald Tribune and other publications. She is working on her second book.
Copyright © 2010, Los Angeles Times
 
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Now all we have to do is get America past its problem with superheroines.

Oh and the gentler pleasures of womanhood doesn't win you a fight. I respected G.I. Jane because she shaved her head and did the job...
 
My take on Stieg Larsson's Salander character is slighly different than mosts, it seems. To me she is the result of trite and contrived writing.

Seems to me that the author took his cue from garden variety cyberpunk and urban goth comics and set out to deliberately create a "woman that takes no shit" character. And in doing so, threw everything but the kitchen sink at it, in terms of archetype.

Salander could be a Frank Miller character, for all I see. Nothing wrong with that... in a Frank Miller narrative. But all this talk about "a whole new way to portrait women" just tells me that a lot of readers and know-it-alls barely see past their own noses.
 
I’m pretty mystified by all the hoopla around Larsson’s books, myself. True, I haven’t read them, but if the movie is anything to go by, it’s nothing to write home about. Salander is a more or less stock cyberpunk character, transplanted into a classic Agatha Christie-ish whodunit. The only explanation I have for the attention it’s getting is that things always take longer than you’d expect to register with the mainstream.
 
Verdad,
I'd recommend reading the Larsson books. Then come back and tell us what you think.

I fell into them, leant to me by a friend because she knew I had a newfound, sexy interest in Sweden. The books came with so much hype, the first one was a let down for me. Just another typical, serial killer crime novel. But the second and third books I couldn't put down, reading them both, one after the other in one marathon session that involved not sleeping for two days. But the pay-off was immense. Then I started them all over again (skipping to the best parts). Like the court case.

To me, the Salandar character is appealing simply because her Asbergers syndrome destroys her social interactions. There are no apologies or excuses made for her attitude, she just is, a pure product of genetics and upbringing. And she's a waif who packs a wicked punch. Got to love that in any woman! And the machinations of the government behind the scenes, the revelations of what she's been subjected to, are mindblowing.

I don't agree with Liar that Larsson 'threw the kitchen sink' at his character. I think he created her from circumstance, rather than thinking up a character and building the world around her. I think he asked himself the question: If I was a genius, and was put through A, B, and C, as a child, how would that affect me in my adult life? In that respect, I think he's nailed it.

As to creating a new breed of superheroine. Pfft. Strong. Moral. Handy in a fight. She's just another Friday (Heinlein), another Buffy. But Buffy had the best one-liners.
 
Now all we have to do is get America past its problem with superheroines.

Oh and the gentler pleasures of womanhood doesn't win you a fight. I respected G.I. Jane because she shaved her head and did the job...

And told the Senator where to stick it.
I thought it was a very good film
 
Verdad,
I'd recommend reading the Larsson books. Then come back and tell us what you think.

I fell into them, leant to me by a friend because she knew I had a newfound, sexy interest in Sweden. The books came with so much hype, the first one was a let down for me. Just another typical, serial killer crime novel. But the second and third books I couldn't put down, reading them both, one after the other in one marathon session that involved not sleeping for two days. But the pay-off was immense. Then I started them all over again (skipping to the best parts). Like the court case.

To me, the Salandar character is appealing simply because her Asbergers syndrome destroys her social interactions. There are no apologies or excuses made for her attitude, she just is, a pure product of genetics and upbringing. And she's a waif who packs a wicked punch. Got to love that in any woman! And the machinations of the government behind the scenes, the revelations of what she's been subjected to, are mindblowing.

I don't agree with Liar that Larsson 'threw the kitchen sink' at his character. I think he created her from circumstance, rather than thinking up a character and building the world around her. I think he asked himself the question: If I was a genius, and was put through A, B, and C, as a child, how would that affect me in my adult life? In that respect, I think he's nailed it.

As to creating a new breed of superheroine. Pfft. Strong. Moral. Handy in a fight. She's just another Friday (Heinlein), another Buffy. But Buffy had the best one-liners.

Ah, then it was rash to judge the books by the movie. Thanks for the perspective; very informative. :kiss:

Oh, and, for clarity’s sake, the movie wasn’t bad either. I enjoyed it like one does okay movies; I just didn’t think it was anything special.
 
liar My take on Stieg Larsson's Salander character is slighly different than most, it seems. To me she is the result of trite and contrived writing.

Seems to me that the author took his cue from garden variety cyberpunk and urban goth comics and set out to deliberately create a "woman that takes no shit" character. And in doing so, threw everything but the kitchen sink at it, in terms of archetype.


intriguing point. but i think the typological criticism can't go very far. 'garden variety cyberpunk', perhaps, .. with a touch of emma peel.

but every character is a 'type'--to begin with: we could dismiss Hamlet as a melacholic prince, and Shylock as a money lender, and Bloom as a bibulous canvasser. what counts, to my way of thinking, is HOW the author puts flesh on the bones, so to say. i'm not saying it's a masterpiece of a movie, but it does engage. LS is not simply a flat, stock character.

as to 'throwing in everything', i'm not sure what that means. history of abuse, right up into the present, and a-social, uncommunicative nature. i don't see the overload.
---

on a slightly different topic it occurred to me that the movie may be drawing in millions because of a 'dual' approach. some want to see a rape and the revenge for it; others want romance. i gather the book is more clear on the latter, than the movie, but clearly there's a love story here, and the 'wounded' character coming to love is a common romance formula. (blomkvist and salander).

incidentally, in reading of hollywood plans for ITS version of the movie i note that they chose a handsomer blomkvist and a curvier salander (mara rooney); the actress was described by one writer as follows, in an interesting review:
http://movie-critics.ew.com/2010/08/17/the-girl-cast-in-dragon-tattoo/

And she’s [MR is] striking-looking, with an old-fashioned small-boned, sculptured-ivory elegance, and big dark eyes that seem to take in everything.
 
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There have ben female heroes for as far back as I can remember, although they were pretty hokey, as were their superhero male counterparts. I'm referring to Mary Marvel and Wonder Woman and Black Canary and some others whose names escape me just now.

And, I certainly remember Mrs. Peel.
 
"heroines" get rescued by "heroes."

So, no. The new breed is of heroes-- female heroes. A new breed of heroine might be males who constantly need rescuing.

More from the twisted minds of the copy-writers.
Hollywood might have (had) a 'Heroine' rescued by a Hero, but nobody else did.

As I understood it, Heroine is the female of Hero, ie., someone with all the attributes of a Hero, but female.

heroine /hern/ n.
[Fr. heroine or L heroina f. Gk heroine fem. of heros HERO:]
1 A woman distinguished and venerated for her extraordinary courage, fortitude, or noble qualities.
2 Gk Hist. A demigoddess.
3 The chief female character in a poem, story, play, etc.

---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from Oxford Talking Dictionary
Copyright © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc. .

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I rest my case.
 
ooookay, Liar.

Where are you going with this?
Only that I don't get that the hooplah around that particular character is. The pendulum swung from meek "heroine" to take-no-shit woman hero, but hit the other wall and left a dent. Too many attributes added for shock value, that didn't really enhance her as a human being but got in the way of knowing her story.
 
More from the twisted minds of the copy-writers.
Hollywood might have (had) a 'Heroine' rescued by a Hero, but nobody else did.

As I understood it, Heroine is the female of Hero, ie., someone with all the attributes of a Hero, but female.

heroine /hern/ n.
[Fr. heroine or L heroina f. Gk heroine fem. of heros HERO:]
1 A woman distinguished and venerated for her extraordinary courage, fortitude, or noble qualities.
2 Gk Hist. A demigoddess.
3 The chief female character in a poem, story, play, etc.

---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from Oxford Talking Dictionary
Copyright © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc. .

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I rest my case.
If all were right with the world, Handley, your understanding would be correct more often than not.

However;
Desdemona, Rebecca, Maid Marian, Guenivere, Iolanthe, Olive Oyle, Thumbelina, the Little Mermaid, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Dale Arden, Lois Lane, and the many female companions of Doctor Who-- all beg to differ.

It's not just hollywood, baby.As young as five years old it was damned obvious to me that, if I wanted to cavort in the greenwoods, I had better be a merry man, because the girls weren't having much fun.

Go take a look at "heroine" in wikipedia; it sends you straight to "hero" which talks almost entirely about men.
 
"heroines" get rescued by "heroes."

So, no. The new breed is of heroes-- female heroes. A new breed of heroine might be males who constantly need rescuing.
Have you seen "Chuck"?

Not exactly complex drama, but I think he qualifies. :)
 
Only that I don't get that the hooplah around that particular character is. The pendulum swung from meek "heroine" to take-no-shit woman hero, but hit the other wall and left a dent. Too many attributes added for shock value, that didn't really enhance her as a human being but got in the way of knowing her story.
Do you feel the same way about male superheroes? Do you need to know their stories? Do they need to be enhanced as human beings too?
 
Do you feel the same way about male superheroes? Do you need to know their stories? Do they need to be enhanced as human beings too?
In any story that portrays itself as being somewhat serious, yes.

What makes you think I don't?

I don't hold neither Judge Dredd or Lara Croft to the same standard. Cause I know they're cartoon figures and that the story is an excuse to blow things up.
 
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In any story that portrays itself as being somewhat serious, yes.

What makes you think I don't?

I don't hold neither Judge Dredd or Lara Croft to the same standard. Cause I know they're cartoon figures and that the story is an excuse to blow things up.
How about the hero of a detective series? James Bond is 'somewhat serious,' isn't he?


I have to say-- I get the hooplah. You're acting like hardass women are a dime a dozen since the dawn of time.

They aren't. They haven't been. They won't be. I'll be patheitcally grateful for a few over-the-top examples brightening the face of the girlie-poo, boys-club wasteland that I have been looking at since I first began to read back in 1964.

How many female heroes are there in Doctor Seuss for crissakes? I mean-- it starts that early.
 
James Bond: "somewhat serious"? Never (in film, anyway).
It was always intended as a bit of a lark.

And there were a few of the Doctor's female friends who did not need rescuing. If only I could remember the names (K9 called her "Mistress".)

I refer you to the "Peabody" stories of Elizabeth Peters.
 
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Piper Perabo is "muscled"?

I'm a big fan of female hero's, action or otherswise, big fan of bones, Bones, and before Bones there was Buffy, before Buffy there is a list of female action hero's going back to Cagney and Lacy, and Angie Dickenson in Police Woman in the Seventies - I think even Angela Landsbury in Murder She Wrote probably qualifies - albeit most of them employed more brains than brawn - but then my favorite male TV detectives were Columbo and Goran (Vincent D'Onofrio) of Goran and Eames - and although Catherine Erbe is hella sexy, Eames was usually the muscle in that team.

Kyra Sedgewick makes a pretty good Columbo, and way better looking.

They do tend to come One or Two at a time rather in groups, but they're there - at least since Batman had to fight Catwoman and Poison Ivy, although they're more anti-hero than hero.

Anyway, here's a list: Female Action Hero's.
 
How about the hero of a detective series?James Bond is 'somewhat serious,' isn't he?
Only in the last movies, and Craig is pulling it off well only in comparison to some of the predecessors, who were pretty much Austin Powers with good teeth.

As for detective series, my fav right now is Saving Grace. Love the main character. She's brilliant, strong, zany and self destructive all at once.
I have to say-- I get the hooplah. You're acting like hardass women are a dime a dozen since the dawn of time.

They aren't. They haven't been. They won't be. I'll be patheitcally grateful for a few over-the-top examples brightening the face of the girlie-poo, boys-club wasteland that I have been looking at since I first began to read back in 1964.
Never said they're all over the place, that wasn't my point.
 
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