The coming rash of Arizona-style immigration laws

[WriterDom]

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/jul/16/georgia-barnes-backs-arizona-style-immigration-law



Tomorrow is primary day in Georgia and I've heard a lot of state candidates promising Arizona laws in the next session. Even the frontrunner democrat for governor has promised to sign one. Of course he'd say anything to get elected.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I imagine all the border states and certainly the Southern states will be pushing this later this year and into next. Holder will be too busy suing states to worry about club yielding, well never mind about that.


We might indeed be heading for another War of Northern Aggression over states rights VS federal rights. A war of words and lawsuits if not bullets and cannonballs.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

The GOP will be winning battles but losing the war if they ally themselves with these kinds of aggressive identity laws as a core issue.

Right now Hispanics are 15.5 percent of the U.S. population; every decade that is projected to increase by 2.2 percent, so that by 2050, Hispanics will make up almost a quarter of the U.S. population. Do Republicans really want to make Hispanics solid Democrats for three generations, or more? If they do, where will GOP members come from? Reagan welcomed Hispanic immigration, as long as the borders were secured; it will be interesting to see if any Republicans pick up that mantle, which will be increasingly unpopular among activists in the party.

And what happens to these laws as Deep South and border states become increasingly Hispanic, with corresponding political clout? We'll have nastier wars within states as well as at the national level.

On the Democratic side, it's risky as well, at least short term: they need to pair any opposition to these things with promises, and plans, to better secure the borders.

 

[WriterDom]

We'll have a two party system in the year 2050. The communists and the socialists. That's a given already. If the US survives that long.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

We'll have a two party system in the year 2050. The communists and the socialists. That's a given already. If the US survives that long.

Okay, this made me laugh, considering how many on the left are deeply disillusioned with the Prez. What I see on the GOP side, though, is an unwillingness to recognize Big Problems, and work to find solutions more palatable to the right.

Take health care: if the GOP had jumped in and tried to work with the Dems, they could have made the health care bill even more market-friendly (keep in mind that I'm saying this as someone who wanted a single-payer system and thought the bill that passed was too meager). They could have used their cooperation as leverage, and significantly influenced the final product. The same thing with immigration: these AZ laws may feel good, but they are not going to solve the problem, and the GOP is going to end up with an ultimately diminished role and sullied rep if this is their default position. So why don't they use their leverage and come to the table? The same thing will eventually happen with climate change legislation.

I guess the short answer is that the very attempts to address these issues are anathema to conservatives. And politically, these stands are popular with their base. They've staked their strategy on obstructing Obama, and it may well work – for 2010. But they're big issues, and they will be ultimately addressed by the country, whether conservatives like it or not. So why not jump in now (or in the case of health care, in the W administration) and craft something they find more tolerable?

 

[WriterDom]

I guess we can all agree that Obama sucks Donkey Dicks but the way the democrats passed the health care debacle was pretty fucking shady and against the will of the majority of the country and that's what will kill the democrats in November.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I guess we can all agree that Obama sucks Donkey Dicks but the way the democrats passed the health care debacle was pretty fucking shady and against the will of the majority of the country and that's what will kill the democrats in November.

Hehe. You said "Donkey Dicks."

 

[intothewoods]

Hehe. You said "Donkey Dicks."

Like.

 

[rosco rathbone]

The immigration thing is hell for the elites of both parties, since it's a class issue that tends to unite the proles on both sides.

 

[intothewoods]

I haven't followed this as closely as I would like, but there are some interesting legal arguments on both sides. I mean, when you get into the nitty gritty, it's not always entirely clear what's in the federal v. state domain.

I did hear a brief interview on the radio with a reporter who had listened to a hearing in one of the suits. There have actually been multiple suits filed. Anyway, the judge pointed out that the police are permitted (instructed?) to hold anyone detained who doesn't have their license until their citizenship can be verified. There's no exception for speeding violations, for example. Sounds like this wasn't a particularly well-written law. I know you cons shrug your shoulders at the what ifs that come up when a law might be overreaching, because oh well, you're not an ilegal/terrorist/foreigner/whatever, but do you really want to give the police the power to haul anyone suspected of any violation of the law to jail until they can prove their citizenship?

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

The Know Nothings will rise again!

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/immigration/know-nothing-flag.jpg

 

[WriterDom]

I haven't followed this as closely as I would like, but there are some interesting legal arguments on both sides. I mean, when you get into the nitty gritty, it's not always entirely clear what's in the federal v. state domain.

I did hear a brief interview on the radio with a reporter who had listened to a hearing in one of the suits. There have actually been multiple suits filed. Anyway, the judge pointed out that the police are permitted (instructed?) to hold anyone detained who doesn't have their license until their citizenship can be verified. There's no exception for speeding violations, for example. Sounds like this wasn't a particularly well-written law. I know you cons shrug your shoulders at the what ifs that come up when a law might be overreaching, because oh well, you're not an ilegal/terrorist/foreigner/whatever, but do you really want to give the police the power to haul anyone suspected of any violation of the law to jail until they can prove their citizenship?

All the more reason for a national ID card. Or a national microchip. Anyone who drives has to carry his or her "Papers." I was fined for not having mine a few years ago. Any who travels has "Papers." Anyone who votes should have "Papers" in my opinion. Some places it's harder to rent a movie than it is to vote. It's not like we are trying to identify Jews among the citizens or anything. As far as I am concerned if you are in the country illegally and in my state, you are in my state illegally.

 

[JMohegan]

I guess we can all agree that Obama sucks Donkey Dicks but the way the democrats passed the health care debacle was pretty fucking shady and against the will of the majority of the country and that's what will kill the democrats in November.

No, we can not all agree on that point. And no, health care was not "against the will of the majority." It's not as if the idea was sprung on Americans after the '08 election, WD.

Pardon me for interrupting your obeisance to Fox with a recollection of facts.

The Know Nothings will rise again!

Hey, man, let's go find some Irish Americans to beat senseless.



This is interesting. Good to know that not all conservatives are xenophobic. But maybe not such good news for Democrats, over the long haul.

“Hispanics are religious, family-oriented, pro-life, entrepreneurial,” said the Rev. Richard D. Land, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, the Southern Baptist Convention’s public policy arm. “They are hard-wired social conservatives, unless they’re driven away.

“I’ve had some older conservative leaders say: ‘Richard, stop this. You’re going to split the conservative coalition,’ ” Dr. Land continued. “I say it might split the old conservative coalition, but it won’t split the new one. And if the new one is going to be a governing coalition, it’s going to have to have a lot of Hispanics in it. And you don’t get a lot of Hispanics in your coalition by engaging in anti-Hispanic anti-immigration rhetoric.”

 

[Netzach]

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/jul/16/georgia-barnes-backs-arizona-style-immigration-law



Tomorrow is primary day in Georgia and I've heard a lot of state candidates promising Arizona laws in the next session. Even the frontrunner democrat for governor has promised to sign one. Of course he'd say anything to get elected.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I imagine all the border states and certainly the Southern states will be pushing this later this year and into next. Holder will be too busy suing states to worry about club yielding, well never mind about that.


We might indeed be heading for another War of Northern Aggression over states rights VS federal rights. A war of words and lawsuits if not bullets and cannonballs.

Know what?

Leave. Go ahead. Have a nice life and all the rights you want, states.

Make your own army. Have a blast. Grow your own food or import it from the US. We'll leave the borders open for refugees from Chapel Hill for a few months, YOU are on your own and enjoy your infrastucture without the burden of the federal government.'

I would like to propose a big federally funded bon voyage party for whatever state wants to secede instead of a war.

 

[JMohegan]

Know what?

Leave. Go ahead. Have a nice life and all the rights you want, states.

Make your own army. Have a blast. Grow your own food or import it from the US. We'll leave the borders open for refugees from Chapel Hill for a few months, YOU are on your own and enjoy your infrastucture without the burden of the federal government.'

I would like to propose a big federally funded bon voyage party for whatever state wants to secede instead of a war.

An outstanding idea. I'm bringing champagne.

 

[WriterDom]

Well there is "health care" and this shitpile bill Harry, Nancy and Obama passed that was against the wishes of the majority in the polls I've seen. In fact, in a lot of states, 60% want it repealed.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/sarah-palin-hunter.jpg

 

[intothewoods]

All the more reason for a national ID card. Or a national microchip. Anyone who drives has to carry his or her "Papers." I was fined for not having mine a few years ago. Any who travels has "Papers." Anyone who votes should have "Papers" in my opinion. Some places it's harder to rent a movie than it is to vote. It's not like we are trying to identify Jews among the citizens or anything. As far as I am concerned if you are in the country illegally and in my state, you are in my state illegally.

And we're the socialists? Of course they're not looking for Jews, except for the ones who speak Ladino. I don't want live in a country where I can be pulled over wherever and whenever without suspicion of anything by the police. You say that you do, but I don't believe you.

What are "Papers"? The rampant unchecked use of quotes in the world today is making me nuts.

Know what?

Leave. Go ahead. Have a nice life and all the rights you want, states.

Make your own army. Have a blast. Grow your own food or import it from the US. We'll leave the borders open for refugees from Chapel Hill for a few months, YOU are on your own and enjoy your infrastucture without the burden of the federal government.'

I would like to propose a big federally funded bon voyage party for whatever state wants to secede instead of a war.

Ha ha ha.

 

[WriterDom]

Know what?

Leave. Go ahead. Have a nice life and all the rights you want, states.

Make your own army. Have a blast. Grow your own food or import it from the US. We'll leave the borders open for refugees from Chapel Hill for a few months, YOU are on your own and enjoy your infrastucture without the burden of the federal government.'

I would like to propose a big federally funded bon voyage party for whatever state wants to secede instead of a war.

Great, just keep your debts when we go and open the voting up to the Midwest. They are probably about ready to leave as well.

 

[WriterDom]

Papers=ID. Oh the humanity of the government asking who the hell you are I guess when your state is already flooded with half a million illegals.

 

[BiBunny]

In the grand scheme of things "them damn Mex'cans" ain't really a big deal to me. Sorry to disappoint, Southern states. It's obviously just a ploy by politicians to look like they're doing something useful when they're not. Kinda like the constant shutting-down of adult stores or the ban on gambling in Alabama when we've already not had enough tax revenue to pay people their fucking income tax refunds TWO YEARS IN A ROW.

Yeah. Maybe we should worry about something a little more important. Just sayin'.

 

[WriterDom]

And it goes without saying that we'll get Alaska. So weep for the frozen tundra when we "Drill, Baby, Drill!"

Between Alaska and the gulf we should have plenty of oil. We'll just have to regulate it better than Obama, Harry, and Nancy did.

Keep your Detroit Government Motors. Please!

 

[rosco rathbone]

All the more reason for a national ID card. Or a national microchip. Anyone who drives has to carry his or her "Papers." I was fined for not having mine a few years ago. Any who travels has "Papers." Anyone who votes should have "Papers" in my opinion. Some places it's harder to rent a movie than it is to vote. It's not like we are trying to identify Jews among the citizens or anything. As far as I am concerned if you are in the country illegally and in my state, you are in my state illegally.

Read Phillip Bobbitt's Terror And Consent, he agrees with you.

 

[JMohegan]

All the more reason for a national ID card. Or a national microchip. Anyone who drives has to carry his or her "Papers." I was fined for not having mine a few years ago. Any who travels has "Papers." Anyone who votes should have "Papers" in my opinion. Some places it's harder to rent a movie than it is to vote. It's not like we are trying to identify Jews among the citizens or anything. As far as I am concerned if you are in the country illegally and in my state, you are in my state illegally.

In your view, what documentation should be required for an individual to purchase a gun in the United States? And which authority figures should be responsible for checking that documentation?

I'm just curious.

 

[intothewoods]

Papers=ID. Oh the humanity of the government asking who the hell you are I guess when your state is already flooded with half a million illegals.

So just say ID! Why not have random house checks too? I feel like I heard a conservative objection to this once upon a time though.

In the grand scheme of things "them damn Mex'cans" ain't really a big deal to me. Sorry to disappoint, Southern states. It's obviously just a ploy by politicians to look like they're doing something useful when they're not. Kinda like the constant shutting-down of adult stores or the ban on gambling in Alabama when we've already not had enough tax revenue to pay people their fucking income tax refunds TWO YEARS IN A ROW.

Yeah. Maybe we should worry about something a little more important. Just sayin'.

Exactly, but this is the thing, it's all a question of what you value. I value my freedom more than I value ridding our country of illegal aliens who work in fields for slave wages.

That reminds me - the President of the United Farm Workers of America was on Colbert a week or so ago, inviting Americans to come work in the fields. Ha ha, Americans don't want to work under those conditions. But if we actually paid farm workers a liveable wage, it's possible Americans might want those jobs. Of course, Americans can't and/or don't want to pay that much for their food.

 

[Rosie_Riveter]

Well there is "health care" and this shitpile bill Harry, Nancy and Obama passed that was against the wishes of the majority in the polls I've seen. In fact, in a lot of states, 60% want it repealed.

Polls are not actually constitutionally-recognized or democratic procedures for choosing among policy options. Setting aside for the moment that polls are worth crap when it comes to gauging support for complex issues, duly elected people followed the rules of the game in passing the legislation. You don't get to run on to the football field midway through the third quarter demanding that the game be overturned because you have poll data suggesting people don't like the existing rules on deeming the quarterback sacked.

In any case, we don't even have a frickin' majority rule political system for crying out loud. Hello federalism! And Senate!

I'd like to attend the party please.