proper criticism

[zex95966]

so I gave an author some feedback to his story, and I felt that I gave reason, a way to improve, and I tried not to sound insulting...

when I get word from the author He proceeds to call me names and spew insults.

so I guess my question is... is there a more proper way to criticize? or should I go back to being the silent reader that I once was and only leave praise to exceptionally good stories while ignoring the stories that almost got me there but didn't quite deliver because it ended a little to early, the characters are not believable, or (insert random reason here.)

 

[bountifulmimi]

I think that critique is a tremendous tool - especially in any creative pursuit.

When you write a story, you write it be read... right? It seams foolish to think that people will only love your story without anything bad to say.

I think that it is not a question of how to critique in a "proper" manner, but rather how to receive criticism.

Good on you, don't let it get you down. Keep giving feedback, it helps.

 

[Daniellekitten]

If I have criticisms, I usually won't post them for everyone to read. It's a bit demeaning to tell someone on their storypage that their grammar is crap and they really need to learn word usuage. I always send that kind of thing by pm. Saves on ruffled feathers. I've gotten some nasty comments on my stories before and I've learned to leave them up there. It gives others something to laugh about. Just don't get too pushy with the comments, I usually don't have any problems with them.

 

[driphoney]

I think a lot of writers here are posting their stories with the idea that it's a bit of a gift. A sharing. When you come back with an unasked for editorial it feels like a slap in the face. They're writing because it was fun, it's a hobby or even less than that, and if they wanted critique, they probably asked someone or took a creative writing class, etc.

A lot of writers who are wanting a serious assessment of their work come here to ask. Comments left here on the thread, or in pm, are not out for public consumption directly on their story.

This does remind me of a cute blog I once read. Now, because some folks get up constantly on the wrong side of the bed, let me remind folks this is a humor and satire blog, written to poke fun at the silly dominant culture here in the US. Read it with your Happy Hat on.

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/05/12/99-grammar/

I laughed so hard reading this and had to share it with a few others. They sheepishly laughed, too.

 

[sr71plt]

From the OP there's no way of commenting on whether it was "proper" or not--as it's not specified. But the truth is that some authors don't welcome negative comment (whether or not they have Comments turned on), so there's no gauging how they'll take whatever is given. Responding with negative comment to a story linked to this Feedback board with a request to read and comment is one thing and zapping a slamming e-mail to someone who has posted a story to the story file and not actively asked for comment (whether or not they left the Comments turned on) is quite another thing. So, it depends on the circumstances, I think.

 

[D_K_Moon]

so I gave an author some feedback to his story, and I felt that I gave reason, a way to improve, and I tried not to sound insulting...

when I get word from the author He proceeds to call me names and spew insults.

so I guess my question is... is there a more proper way to criticize? or should I go back to being the silent reader that I once was and only leave praise to exceptionally good stories while ignoring the stories that almost got me there but didn't quite deliver because it ended a little to early, the characters are not believable, or (insert random reason here.)

As a writer, I don't care about your critique, I don't know who you are. If I want a critique, then I'll ask for one.

As a reader, I just offer my opinion on whether I liked it or not. And if I didn't then I don't say anything at all.

Now, that being said, if you feel you have something to offer, I suggest you look to the Story Discussion Circle where writers offer up selected works for critical review.

 

[Alex_Bragi]

Well, was your critique subjective or objective?

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I think sr sums it up well and DK and Alex make good points.

To my mind, Public Comment is for expressing what you liked as a reader, perhaps saying politely where it fell short for you. A mention of spelling or punctuation problems that made reading difficult should be OK. This is not the place to say, 'What a load of crap', however eruditely you wrap it.

Email feedback should never be done without giving your reply address and, if you want to give a detailed critique, you should briefly state your areas of concern and ask if the author wants to have your pearls of wisdom - in my experience, most do, and the simple politeness breaks down barriers and works well.

Replies to posts on Story Feedback should get the respect of the best reply you can give. "I'm no expert but I liked your story, write more" is just as valuable, probably much more, than a response such as "The stucture of your story arc needs analysis and the poor use of prepositional phrases and modifiers need attention".

We used to have a group around SF that gave great help (I excuse myself) to newbies or neo-neophytes . Sadly, with the piracy of the bullies and the departure of some great talents (where are you JJ?) our support is less strong.

If you give a strong critique you must be prepared to respond to the question, "How can I improve?" Give it what you've got and don't worry about modesty. Just be a friend.

 

[CharleyH]

so I gave an author some feedback to his story, and I felt that I gave reason, a way to improve, and I tried not to sound insulting...

when I get word from the author He proceeds to call me names and spew insults.

so I guess my question is... is there a more proper way to criticize? or should I go back to being the silent reader that I once was and only leave praise to exceptionally good stories while ignoring the stories that almost got me there but didn't quite deliver because it ended a little to early, the characters are not believable, or (insert random reason here.)

As I always say ... I got a criticism back when I was 16 and from a teacher I admired. The criticism was one sentence, 'WHAT IS THIS SHIT?' As I've said to people, I cried my eyes off, but it was the best criticism I ever got because a) she made me see I wasn't trying my best and b) there is no worse criticism than that. Every criticism after that pales and is listened to. If someone doesn't listen to your honest opinion on their story? They simply aren't ready to write a good story. Don't take anything to heart, just keep giving your opinion. You are helping them even if they don't know it, yet.

 

[polynices]

so I gave an author some feedback to his story, and I felt that I gave reason, a way to improve, and I tried not to sound insulting...

when I get word from the author He proceeds to call me names and spew insults.

so I guess my question is... is there a more proper way to criticize?

I think this a very good question, because it's central to the fraught nature of the reader/writer relationship on Literotica. And the range of responses to this question shows, I think, that it's a thorny problem.

The basic conundrum is to do with the way writers view the Feedback facility. People who don't want Feedback can just switch it off, of course, but few do. So it looks as if most of us crave some form of feedback. I know I do.

The big issue, of course, is: What kind of feedback do we want? If asked, most of us would probably say: "Ideally I'd like detailed, balanced, reasoned critique. Without criticism, how can I improve?" However, as James B Johnson has pointed out, what many of us mean by that is: 'I really want a big hug from Mommy! Tell me how great I am!" I'm fully aware of that tendency in myself, even though I struggle against it.

So, even when we get the ideal criticism we say we want, it can be a struggle to accept it. Even a rave review with just one little niggle in it can feel wounding. We (I anyway) instantly ignore the positives and start fretting about that one little negative point. (That is, the little boy inside me does that. The other, supposedly adult, self nods sagely and writes a polite thank you note saying how much he appreciates the criticism. The problem is, it was mostly the little boy who wrote the story, not the grown-up.)

What I'm saying is that I believe most (all?) writers are hyper-sensitive to criticism. The difference between them comes down to how well they hide it.

However, that doesn't mean that anger and abuse are ever appropriate responses to well-meant criticism. Whether we truly believe it in our deepest selves or not, most criticism is genuinely valuable - and the least palatable is often the most useful - as others have pointed out here.

So the correct stance for a writer receiving criticism is almost always polite thanks. No question. After all, the critic took time to write the critique. That's a gift, just as much as the original story was. I think, though, there are a couple of exceptions.

The first is when the critique is so obviously off-beam that it would be ridiculous to accept it unquestioningly. To give an absurd example, the reader who writes:

I thought your story could have been very good, but the absence of parking meters completely ruined it for me. Please do better next time - and include more parking meters!

Thankfully, this has never happened to me, though I've seen similar, if less extreme, examples on the Feedback Portal. But responding to the parking meter fetishist would be a challenge. I can't think of an appropriate response, beyond a basic Thank you for your comment.

The other exception is the vicious commenter who revels in the power s/he has to wound. Those are, of course, best ignored, though that can be difficult at times. If the intention of the comment seems to be to wind the author up (as we say in Britain) it can be difficult to avoid being wound - and retaliating as a result.

Others have pointed out that, without access to both texts, we can't really judge the appropriacy of this particular author's response to zex's critique, though I'd guess from the way zex describes it that the response was at least ill-judged. In general though, I think it's worth pointing out that publishing a critique is as much an act of personal exposure as posting a story is. Both involve a risk to one's self-esteem. So as a critic, zex, you have to accept your own modicum of risk (as I do here, by the way, in posting this).

My personal view is that you should go on posting critiques if you still feel you want to do it. But careful qualification (This is only my opinion, etc) and all the associated caveats are usefully diplomatic. They're also truthful. The most obvious characteristic of the Literotica readership as a whole is the wide range of people who read here. There's a bewildering variety of responses and perceptions. We really can't speak for anyone but ourselves.

- polynices

 

[sr71plt]

There's no mystery in what most writers here want in the way of feedback. They want "It was great and it did wonderful things to my body."

Given that, unless the author actively asked for detailed critique (and not just by leaving comment on), I don't push negative comment at them. If you do, you should anticipate the high possibility of negative comment back.

 

[polynices]

There's no mystery in what most writers here want in the way of feedback. They want "It was great and it did wonderful things to my body."

Given that, unless the author actively asked for detailed critique (and not just by leaving comment on), I don't push negative comment it at them.

Despite what I wrote earlier, I have to admit that, as a reader, I don't leave negative comments as story feedback* either. I only comment when I'm enthusiastic about a piece - just as I only vote '5'. Anything else I ignore.

I'm not sure that's the way I "should" behave, or what the Feedback system was designed to do, but it's what I do in practice.

[*That doesn't apply to occasional critiques on this board, of course. Here, I do my best to be balanced and honest, as I think everybody does.]

- polynices

 

[Reshbod]

There's no mystery in what most writers here want in the way of feedback. They want "It was great and it did wonderful things to my body."

Given that, unless the author actively asked for detailed critique (and not just by leaving comment on), I don't push negative comment it at them. If you do, you should anticipate the high possibility of negative comment back.

That kind of surprises me, but after being here a while it seems to be right. The reason I began posting some of my stories on here was in hopes of getting criticism both positive and negative. I don't consider myself a "writer" but was hoping to improve my skills on here. I do try to do that with most stories I read, telling them what I liked and what didn't work for me. I've never received any negative replies and most seem appreciative of my comments. Of course there are those who don't even reply so I admit I don't submit as many comments as I did in the beginning.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

That kind of surprises me, but after being here a while it seems to be right. The reason I began posting some of my stories on here was in hopes of getting criticism both positive and negative. I don't consider myself a "writer" but was hoping to improve my skills on here. I do try to do that with most stories I read, telling them what I liked and what didn't work for me. I've never received any negative replies and most seem appreciative of my comments. Of course there are those who don't even reply so I admit I don't submit as many comments as I did in the beginning.

If you dare post here asking for critique you'll get friendly but fair critique that might help.

True, no two comments are likely to agree, but at least you can weigh up what you agree with and what is dross.

Public Comments are, however well intended, a bit of a broad brush and not really literary criticism.

 

[D_K_Moon]

If you dare post here asking for critique you'll get friendly but fair critique that might help.

True, no two comments are likely to agree, but at least you can weigh up what you agree with and what is dross.

Public Comments are, however well intended, a bit of a broad brush and not really literary criticism.

I agree with my esteemed colleague, we try to give an honest and fair critique when it's asked for.

Try to tell us what you want us to look at, that helps immensely.