The 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm'

[BLoved]

See, I'm not so sure of the 'fake' wife idea. I wouldn't like to think anyone could make up anything that tragic tbh. You may think that's naive, but I believe that everyone has moral limits, and faking something as heartbreaking as a spouse with cancer just seems a step too far in my mind.

Just my two cents.

Thank you, Molly

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yo, is this you? Props if it is.

"STella has been omnipresent over the life of ASB/SSB, and the coiner of terms that have become part of the BDSM vocabulary. "Meat Life" and "Munch" are among these. Sie presents hirself as of indeterminate gender. Sie is probably as close to a true legend as we have."

No, not me!

But I feel honored to carry hir name, even coincidentally.

See, I'm not so sure of the 'fake' wife idea. I wouldn't like to think anyone could make up anything that tragic tbh. You may think that's naive, but I believe that everyone has moral limits, and faking something as heartbreaking as a spouse with cancer just seems a step too far in my mind.

Just my two cents.

Sadly, it isn't as uncommon as you would think. It's a variant of Munchhausen Syndrome.

And even someone with a moral limit may be able to convince himself that his message is more important than his deception.

In any case this person's actions make his moral limits moot. He is so extremely untrustworthy and self-deceiving that the truth of this matter isn't even important. What is important is the unprincipled way he attempts to use that death as a form of emotional blackmail in order to get his way.

 

[PhaonsBrother]

Aren't you the same person who accused me of being Satan?

Weren't you/aren't you a destructive force in the lives of others?

 

[warrior queen]

"Submission is a gift"

It is very gratifying to see the idea I started so many years ago pop up in the strangest places.

There is a good reason so many of my posts as Wulf were deleted by the casual players of the time.

The last thing they wanted was subs getting the idea they were entitled to healthy self-esteem.

Today lots of submissives subscribe to the view that submission is a gift.

Just goes to show you can't keep a good idea from spreading.

~smile~

actually, if i take this whole train of thought a step further....
what you appear to be saying is that as the sub, who gives consent and 'gifts' my submission, I am the instigator of any possible abuse simply because I enable it to occur.
in effect, it's all my fault.

no wonder i have such low self-worth - how could it be otherwise when i am letting all this happen?
and how dare i question your wisdom!
oh wait - aren't i too damaged as the victim to be able to question anything?
or is it that i've given you permission to belittle me?

damn it, now i'm confused!

 

[BLoved]

A Beginner's Guide to BDSM Munches (Version 1.4, written 8/14/03)
Copyright 2003 by Jay Wiseman, JD

Let us not forget who it is who wants you to believe any of this means anything to him or his pals ...

Just so you know I am not involved in "causal BDSM". I am in a loving monogamous relationship with someone whom I will marry one day. I have never been to a play party, munch, or any kind of BDSM event. I might not ever attend one in my life.

I personally believe BDSM is only enhanced when you are in a loving relationship. And I agree that BDSM outside of love can be more dangerous, but I will always respect another person's right to live their life how they want.

I'm going to put you on ignore now robert. It's been fun.

But before I go, I just want to say:

Kill yourself.

I agree.

I was Robert's "beloved".

I left him because he was not who i thought he was.
He changed over the time we spent together and i realized i no longer loved him. It was a difficult decision that i came to but one that i am glad i made.

Robert is stuck in his ways.
He hates change and anything that has to do with change. In way i started to pity him. He still has not gotten over the losses in his life. He tries to cover them up with his belief that Love will cure all. But I realized it doesn't.

I knew if i told Robert all this, he would have just went about his life as if i said nothing at all. Its Robert's way or its the wrong way. I couldn't live like that. i will always have a place in my heart for Robert.

But i am glad i left. It was one of the best decisions i could have made for myself.

Take care of yourself Robert.

That was me.

And I've rated your stories 1 star a bunch of times.

~smile~

Bye bye robert.

Take care.

 

[PhaonsBrother]

actually, if i take this whole train of thought a step further....
what you appear to be saying is that as the sub, who gives consent and 'gifts' my submission, I am the instigator of any possible abuse simply because I enable it to occur.
in effect, it's all my fault.
...

This is good stuff, didn't even think of it. The problem is we get into logic world and BLoved refuses to acknowledge logic world.

 

[BLoved]

actually, if i take this whole train of thought a step further....
what you appear to be saying is that as the sub, who gives consent and 'gifts' my submission, I am the instigator of any possible abuse simply because I enable it to occur.
in effect, it's all my fault.

It is not my opinion that those with a healthy self-esteem knowingly give their submission to an abuser.

If abuse occurs, it would be the result of misrepresentations, deceit, fraud, etc on the part of the abuser.

Someone like this:

Just so you know I am not involved in "causal BDSM". I am in a loving monogamous relationship with someone whom I will marry one day. I have never been to a play party, munch, or any kind of BDSM event. I might not ever attend one in my life.

I personally believe BDSM is only enhanced when you are in a loving relationship. And I agree that BDSM outside of love can be more dangerous, but I will always respect another person's right to live their life how they want.

I'm going to put you on ignore now robert. It's been fun.

But before I go, I just want to say:

Kill yourself.

I agree.

I was Robert's "beloved".

I left him because he was not who i thought he was.
He changed over the time we spent together and i realized i no longer loved him. It was a difficult decision that i came to but one that i am glad i made.

Robert is stuck in his ways.
He hates change and anything that has to do with change. In way i started to pity him. He still has not gotten over the losses in his life. He tries to cover them up with his belief that Love will cure all. But I realized it doesn't.

I knew if i told Robert all this, he would have just went about his life as if i said nothing at all. Its Robert's way or its the wrong way. I couldn't live like that. i will always have a place in my heart for Robert.

But i am glad i left. It was one of the best decisions i could have made for myself.

Take care of yourself Robert.

That was me.

And I've rated your stories 1 star a bunch of times.

~smile~

Bye bye robert.

Take care.

 

[FloggingMolly]

*shakes head* Now that was very uncool.

Much as I didn't agree with the whole 'kill yourself' thing (I spent 5 odd years caring for Him when he was seriously depressed and suicidal, so it isn't something I'd joke about), I also don't agree with you calling Daddy2mylilgirl an abuser of subs.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It is not my opinion that those with a healthy self-esteem knowingly give their submission to an abuser.

If abuse occurs, it would be the result of misrepresentations, deceit, fraud, etc on the part of the abuser.

Someone like this:

Och, what a wuss.

*shakes head* Now that was very uncool.

Much as I didn't agree with the whole 'kill yourself' thing (I spent 5 odd years caring for Him when he was seriously depressed and suicidal, so it isn't something I'd joke about), I also don't agree with you calling Daddy2mylilgirl an abuser of subs.

He's a mocker of Robert. Evidently Robert is a defenseless sub.

 

[BLoved]

Weren't you/aren't you a destructive force in the lives of others?

Satan is always in the air, waiting to speak through weak individuals such as yourself.

Accoding to you.

 

[warrior queen]

It is not my opinion that those with a healthy self-esteem knowingly give their submission to an abuser.

If abuse occurs, it would be the result of misrepresentations, deceit, fraud, etc on the part of the abuser.

but - haven't we concluded that it is me who is the one who is responsible for any abuse?
my consent to my Dom is what allows it to happen in the first place?

and given (by the same logic) that results in damaged self-esteem, then i would be stuck in the endless cycle of both perpetrating the abuse, and suffering from it?

 

[Stella_Omega]

more links to Bloved's altnet history

Robert really is stuck in his ways.

He has been doing the same things and making the same excuses for himself, for many many years now.

 

[RuReal]

guys please I know it may seem easy to play with someone who cannot seem to explain or argue back and has no real ground to stand on. I know when presented with questions he does not answer or posts things that are not part of the question.

Does he really need much more attention?

 

[PhaonsBrother]

Actually, can we make this thread about fishing? I've been having shit luck, it's all rock bass, various sunfish, maybe a twelve inch LM Bass. Any specific lures, strategies people have that work? Brands, links for plain old lake/pond fishing tackle?

 

[warrior queen]

i'm going to go one step further here....

how could BLoved allow himself to be a Dom - when it's becoming clear that any sub of his would be manipulating him into perpetrating abuse by the gift of submission and consent to the acts?

 

[warrior queen]

Actually, can we make this thread about fishing? I've been having shit luck, it's all rock bass, various sunfish, maybe a twelve inch LM Bass. Any specific lures, strategies people have that work? Brands, links for plain old lake/pond fishing tackle?

and here i was, thinking this thread was all about bait!

 

[Stella_Omega]

You're right, RuReal.

Especially since fourteen years ago, someone was unable to make any headway with him either;

This may shock you, wulf, but ~SUBS~HAVE~MINDS~OF~THEIR~OWN~. Now,
before you go into cardiac arrest, please consider that these are full
grown adult women, who think, and feel and speak their minds. Show me
a Master who censors every word his sub speaks or thinks and I'll show
you a "Master" who is threatened by his sub's identity as it exists
apart from her Master.

Now, I know this is a foreign concept for you, you of the child-woman,
"little one", woman-who-is-seen-but-never-heard mentality, but
frankly, any dominant who wants a mindless submissive is a dominant
who is insecure.

Thereby demonstrating that he has never, ever figured out the difference between submission and delicate flower who must be protected.
And;

-To explain, he was under fire not because of the intrinsic ill will of
-"the majority", but because of what "the majority" felt was patently
-obnoxious behavior in the newsgroups.

-His phrase "a lot of posts" understates the fact that he continuously
-and heavily spammed the alt.personals.bondage newsgroup for a period
-of nearly a year, and viciously attacked *anybody* who objected to his
-spamming. There were periods when Wulf's weekly production of
-repetitive spam in APB equaled the output of all other spammers
-combined, INCLUDING the binaries!

...-"Tried" to run an ad? <laughing> During the YEAR or so Wulf was
-active in APB, he not only tried but succeeded in posting the
-equivalent of several THOUSAND ads, primarily in the form of what
-became a half-megabyte personal manifesto published in 30-40 parts at
-rate of 6-8 parts per day, repeated weekly.
which shows that forum flooding is an old, favorite tactic, often attempted and often put down.

 

[PhaonsBrother]

Why doesn't this dude just sign up to be a real life spammer. Make some cash for all the trouble he goes through to fill text boxes.

 

[00Syd]

You're right, RuReal.

Especially since fourteen years ago, someone was unable to make any headway with him either;

This may shock you, wulf, but ~SUBS~HAVE~MINDS~OF~THEIR~OWN~. Now,
before you go into cardiac arrest, please consider that these are full
grown adult women, who think, and feel and speak their minds. Show me
a Master who censors every word his sub speaks or thinks and I'll show
you a "Master" who is threatened by his sub's identity as it exists
apart from her Master.

Now, I know this is a foreign concept for you, you of the child-woman,
"little one", woman-who-is-seen-but-never-heard mentality, but
frankly, any dominant who wants a mindless submissive is a dominant
who is insecure.

Thereby demonstrating that he has never, ever figured out the difference between submission and delicate flower who must be protected.
And;

-To explain, he was under fire not because of the intrinsic ill will of
-"the majority", but because of what "the majority" felt was patently
-obnoxious behavior in the newsgroups.

-His phrase "a lot of posts" understates the fact that he continuously
-and heavily spammed the alt.personals.bondage newsgroup for a period
-of nearly a year, and viciously attacked *anybody* who objected to his
-spamming. There were periods when Wulf's weekly production of
-repetitive spam in APB equaled the output of all other spammers
-combined, INCLUDING the binaries!

...-"Tried" to run an ad? <laughing> During the YEAR or so Wulf was
-active in APB, he not only tried but succeeded in posting the
-equivalent of several THOUSAND ads, primarily in the form of what
-became a half-megabyte personal manifesto published in 30-40 parts at
-rate of 6-8 parts per day, repeated weekly.
which shows that forum flooding is an old, favorite tactic, often attempted and often put down.

Wow. Epic troll is epic.

 

[Etoile]

http://www.magenta.com/~spectrum/legends.htm

Wulf: see Arrow Blue's Wulf FAQ: http://home.netcom.com/~arrowblu/ABwulf.html He's a troll, who delights in disruption.

Fun stuff! I never spent much time on usenet back in those days.

That's the FAQ I posted elsewhere - dug it up on Usenet since Netcom is no more!

 

[Etoile]

more links to Bloved's altnet history

Robert really is stuck in his ways.

He has been doing the same things and making the same excuses for himself, for many many years now.

Which is why I don't care anymore. One-trick ponies are no fun to ride.

 

[Homburg]

I took some time to look over the pieces linked in your sig, Bloved. I intensely dislike the paragraph structure and think the dialogue I read felt really forced, but there's some nice descriptive writing here and there. I felt that you portrayed the Canadian environment rather well, and I like that sort of setting up the setting, if you will.

BUT:

You crow about ethics and safety, yet describe a VERY unsafe suspension in this story arc. Branches are in no way safe to suspend on as there is no way to predict load capacity, shear strength, etc. And wrist suspensions are flat out dangerous. While the wrist can support body weight when it is properly supported and the hands are solidly gripping something, they cannot do so easily or for long periods, and are very much not designed for the lateral stresses that would be imposed by this suspension. That description is a recipe for wrist disloaction.

This suspension, as described, is rather likely to end poorly either due to wrist injury or a branch breaking. No responsible rope top would do a suspension like that. Not a one. And describing it in that manner is damned near criminally irresponsible.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

It is not my opinion that those with a healthy self-esteem knowingly give their submission to an abuser.

If abuse occurs, it would be the result of misrepresentations, deceit, fraud, etc on the part of the abuser.

Someone like this:

~smile~

I must be really getting to you robert.

I love that I'm still on your mind.

I love that I have that power and control over you.

So easily manipulated robert.

~smile~

 

[Etoile]

Did anybody notice the six-inch tongue in that story, too?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Did anybody notice the six-inch tongue in that story, too?

I honestly couldn't read it. So, no.