The 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm'

[Bette_coquette]

Self-important posters annoy me. That is all.

 

[BLoved]

One could say that the inability to even temporarily see things from another's point of view lacks empathy.

~shakes head~

I do more of that than you'll ever know.

It is one of the reasons, I believe, that those who have been victimized by abuse have approached me.

They know I understand them better than most anyone else.

As an example, you've continued to insult and demonize me

I want to thank you for our exchanges today. It has been a very long time since anyone on a bdsm forum has treated me as a human being, and given me reason to believe he or she is sincerely listening.

You did that today, and it is a rare gift I will not forget.

Forgive me, but this has been one of the longest days I've had to endure in quite some time. Time for bed. I may not sleep, and may return, but if not, thank you for this gift.

Be that as it may, I was actually referring to the lack of empathy you demonstrate for yourself. It makes me a little sad.

If you were hoping to see me wallowing in self-pity, you are several decades too late.

After the loss of my father when I was ten, I cried myself to sleep every night for a year.

Broke my mother's heart.

There have been many times since the death of my wife and son where I've been tempted to lie down, pull the snow over me and fall asleep forever.

What kept me going is knowing there are those who count on me, those who need me.

I don't feel those temptations anymore.

No one asks for burdens such as these, fate deals the cards and either we rise to the ocassion or are crushed by the burden.

In a way I'm lucky. I've had good people in my life whose examples encouraged me to believe I can rise when all I wanted to do is fall.

I realize not everyone is as lucky as that. They're the ones I hope I can encourage, as others encouraged me.

I tend to think that believing in myself is the best form of support, the best form of empathy I can give myself.

It keeps me from giving up ... on myself, on love, on hope, on life.

Considering all I've been through, I think I've done pretty well.

Perhaps a day will come when a lady, gentle and true, will enter my life and show me the best is yet to come.

Whether that hapens or not, I'll go on encouraging those who suffer to believe in themselves, and their future.

After all, if I can do it, anyone can do it.

 

[BLoved]

What is policing a thread anyway?

This is what "policing" looks like.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

This is what "policing" looks like.

This ain't China.

 

[FurryFury]

My local group doesn't allow under 18 people in. There is no booze either.

How we do it is this:

Open munch at local public place in normal clothing. If the person seems okay, they are then invited to a demo and play party.

Demo is held at a private residence. Regular clothing only though you can change if you wish.

Play party to follow should you wish to stay, pay and play. No one is pushed to do anything at any time.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Perhaps a day will come when a lady, gentle and true, will enter my life and show me the best is yet to come.

Remember, my inbox is always open if you need advice again. I know how you can get blinded sometimes.

~smile~

 

[BLoved]

Open munch at local public place in normal clothing. If the person seems okay, they are then invited to a demo and play party.

So the ability to chit-chat through one munch is all the screening required before bringing them into a 'play party'?

 

[BLoved]

Remember, my inbox is always open if you need advice again.

lol

You've got to be kidding.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

lol

You've got to be kidding.

It doesn't make you any less of a "Love" expert to ask for help.

So far my a little over two and a half years of love have taught me more than your forty years of analyzing love as shown by my right on the money advice to you and your "beloved".

So, I'm here for you, big guy.

~smile~

 

[BLoved]

It doesn't make you any less of a "Love" expert to ask for help.

~smile~

Thanks, but I'd prefer to muddle through without your assistance.

 

[FurryFury]

So the ability to chit-chat through one munch is all the screening required before bringing them into a 'play party'?

No, to a demo. They aren't always invited to the party afterwords. You'd be surprised how many can't chit chat worth a crap.

What would you suggest? Full background checks? One uses ones judgment and yes, it is fallible but reasonable IMO.

I was invited to both the demo and the play party right off the bat. I've yet to ever "play" causally or in public though. That's not my thing. I'm far too uptight for that. Damn it.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

~smile~

Thanks, but I'd prefer to muddle through without your assistance.

Well, we've seen where that has gotten you so far.

~smile~

 

[BLoved]

You'd be surprised how many can't chit chat worth a crap.

~smile~

Not really.

While I can manage, I've never been one to engage in a lot of chit-chat.

What would you suggest?

~smile~

I doubt you'd find my advice helpful.

When seeking a beloved, I engage in a lot of conversation. Not chit-chat, but discussions about life, about bdsm, about her past, her hopes for the future.

I want to get to know the lady from the inside out. I want to know who she is, what she believes, her dreams, her fears.

Takes weeks of listening, talking before we exhaust those subjects.

Even then, as my recent experience demonstrates, it may become evident that the lady wasn't nearly as aware of herself as she portrayed.

One uses ones judgment and yes, it is fallible but reasonable IMO.

I've been criticized for placing my faith in a woman I'd spoken with for a month.

Seems you are willing to place your faith in someone with whom you've exchanged chit-chat through one munch.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Even then, as my recent experience demonstrates, it may become evident that the lady wasn't nearly as aware of herself as she portrayed.

Wow.

Way to blame the victim.

Real classy.

 

[BLoved]

Wow.

Way to blame the victim.

Real classy.

Your lust for drama is showing.

I'm not saying anything she doesn't already know.

 

[WriterDom]

Even then, as my recent experience demonstrates, it may become evident that the lady wasn't nearly as aware of herself as she portrayed.

Wow, not only did your grief last a mere eight hours, but now you are throwing the lady under the bus.

She's probably better off not living in your carcinogenic self-absorbed world.

 

[FurryFury]

Chit chat was your term. It's an incorrect term. What you describe as doing to get to know someone is what I would expect when entering a portential romantic partnership. Good for you.

Once again, however you've twisted what someone has said. To attempt to keep an argument going perhaps. That I do not find to be a good thing in an individual. Or course one could also decide to change, as unlikely as that time seem.

The fact is, I don't need to place my faith in someone I've casually chit chatted with upon going to a munch, demo or play party because I'm not entering into that much of a relationship with them. I would feel that way about anyone who invited me to any event in which I was already interested in, not just kink events, btw.

It's key to mention I'm firmly a person responsible for myself where I chose to go. I believe in my own ability to get myself out of anything I am not comfortable with except with a, as you would say, beloved.

There I go all out and sometimes (okay just once), quite wrong. Even then I take responsibility for it. Though I may think the other person toxic and reprehensible it was MY choice each step of the way. Therefore my responsibility. Upon getting out I dealt with it as an adult not some whining child.

For instance, in this case, I went to a munch at a public restaurant. I could have left at any time. I chit chatted which, in part involved opening up my kinky soul to one of the leaders. I didn't have to do that. I wanted to. It was my idea. I was so relieved to have someone who understood and was nominally like me to chat with this way!

I was surprised to be invited to demo as I didn't know how that worked. Yes, I was as anyone might be a bit worried about the play party because I didn't know what would be involved. I was also intensely curious. I was very excited.

I went with the idea in mind that I could and would leave at any time. I chose a demo based on electricity because that is something my partner is interested in. It's also something I don't want to play with on my own without some sort of in person knowledge.

The demo was very interesting. As it so happened, I asked lots of questions. Partly because of my questions the gentleman doing the demo also showed me some resistance play, shaving and fire cupping with his partner. This was AWESOME!

At the play party later, I also was able to witness a violet wand scene for the first time in person. That too was AWESOME as I'd been considering getting one. This even though I am not a voyeur at all. I am interested in knowledge and meeting people but not simply watching people.

We had to leave in order to get home in time to indulge ourselves together in private. This is how we do it, always. I'd have liked to have the time to stay later to learn some more. Time with my partner in a private scene at home won out though and it always will. We also had to still be able to get up and do what we needed to the next day. LOL.

At no time did anyone try anything with us or pressure us. At no time did we play publicly or casually.

However, I can't and won't say, that those that do, are in any more danger than those that play exclusively with a beloved one. That's because I've seen plenty of situations where being beloved wasn't healthy at all. It depends entirely on the type of love each brings to the relationship and how they react to the others love if it's healthy for each of the individuals regardless of kink.

You are correct that I am unlikely to find your "advice" useful. It was more a rhetorical question. There is no perfect system. I wasn't asking for advice from someone who clearly is being stubborn beyond arrogance. Sadly, you've already placed yourself behind barriers you've built so that you have no ability to learn new things or change your mind. This is simply because you've already made up your mind about this subject. You seem to like to argue. You seem to like to see yourself as persecuted. These are not healthy things or attractive ones IMO. I hope you'll be able to grow past them someday.

I have not and would not dream of putting you down for trusting someone you've known for a month. I've done the same. Some even called it a rebound situation. This year marks our 20th together and so happy, though far from perfect that we see no end in sight.

 

[BLoved]

I don't need to place my faith in someone I've casually chit chatted with upon going to a ... play party because I'm not entering into that much of a relationship with them.

Thank you for providing that information.

 

[FurryFury]

Thank you for providing that information.

You are welcome. So glad you can see that adults should be able to take care of their own hearts and bodies.

What progress!

 

[BLoved]

You are welcome. So glad you can see that adults should be able to take care of their own hearts and bodies.

What progress!

I appreciate you explaining how thorough the screening process is before someone is invited to a 'play party'.

 

[sb2009]

Dude, what do you want? I sure as hell can't figure you out. Do you want anyone here who has been to a public or private BDSM event that wasn't made up of them and one other person of the opposite sex who they were in a long-term committed relationship to admit that they kick puppies and run over old ladies in the crosswalk?

Because I'll admit that. I suck at lasting under torture. I'm one of those people that will confess to shooting JFK and JR if I am asked enough times in an interrogation.

So YES, I do bad things. I am a bad person. People should avoid me. Everyone here is bad. Lit will not shut down and everyone will head out to expiate thier sins by finding a beloved and never ever again engage in any sort of BDSM activities.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ON A MOTHER FUCKING CRACKER.

 

[BLoved]

My local group doesn't allow under 18 people in. There is no booze either.

How we do it is this:

Open munch at local public place in normal clothing. If the person seems okay, they are then invited to a demo and play party.

Demo is held at a private residence. Regular clothing only though you can change if you wish.

Play party to follow should you wish to stay, pay and play. No one is pushed to do anything at any time.

This is the standard of safety maintained by the casual community.

As long as you can "pay", you can "play".

 

[chy_girl]

*snip*
I am relying primarily on the testimony of those who were victimized by casual players either through one-night stands or play parties. One of those victimized was my wife, who attended as many parties as she could the year before she met me.

*snip*

It wasn't until I became involved with a victim that I came to realize how much low self-esteem plays a role in casual 'bdsm', and how this leads to what I call cycles of self-destruction where the victim finds it impossible to embrace a healthy, loving relationship.

*snip*

Since her I've seen this pattern in others, and have come to recognize how this low self-esteem is exploited by casual players.

*snip

So you object because I recognize a pattern of abuse that runs through all aspects of casual 'bdsm'.

*snip*

Private parties come with their own risks:

Private Play Parties

Private play parties occur in homes, with small groups of people specifically invited for the event.

Basically, if you were invited, someone in the group was hot for your meat and believes you will cooperate completely with their fantasies that involve you.

*snip

For some, the fact a submissive even shows up is enough cooperation. For others, if she permits herself to be tied up she is available to anyone attending.

*snip*

But it will be noted this does not deter those who advocate such behaviour to make claims about safety without concern for this lack of knowledge.

They are all safe.

-- Excerpt from "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

*snip*
A novice attending a party is unlikely to know anyone well, taking everyone and everything on faith. She will be getting almost no time to get to know anyone, let alone get to know them to the point where she can develop a reasonable idea of whether these individuals are being candid or not.

They, on the other hand, are only interested in whether she will be cooperative or not. They don't care about her as a person, don't want to know about how she was abused in the past ... just as long as she doesn't melt down in front of them, and is willing to do as she is told, she's in.
*snip*

By your own definition I am a "casual player" and my relationship is a "casual relationship." Because, by your definition, I am a "casual BDSMer" I lack ethics, self-esteem, and am abused by two people I care a great deal for. By your own definition, none of the friendships I have developed in my time in the local community are true... they are simply a way of ensuring that another "abuse" victim is available to be passed around.

The statements you make may very well be true in regard to your local BDSM community. They are not, however, true in regard to my local BDSM community. My local community has done nothing but encourage personal growth and development (and not as a beatee) and holds true to the saying "A submissive is not a doormat." The irony is, how you've expressed your opinions and experiences have been more abusive, discrediting to my relationships, and more insulting to me as a person than anything I've ever seen in the local community.

*snip*
I placed my trust in the lady's words. It is called an "act of faith".

And how come your "act of faith" toward your ex is more valid and healthy than my faith and trust in my Mistress and Sir?

My community is nothing like the one you speak of. If you wish to hear about how things work in my community, if you have questions you would like to ask, I will be happy to answer them.

 

[intothewoods]

To my many detractors:

Yes, you hate me. We can all see this.

You hate me, and you're going to go on hating me.

I don't hate you at all. I feel sorry for you. I can't believe this is all the product of a balanced person.

 

[BLoved]

And how come your "act of faith" toward your ex is more valid and healthy than my faith and trust in my Mistress and Sir?

Open munch at local public place in normal clothing. If the person seems okay, they are then invited to a demo and play party.

Demo is held at a private residence. Regular clothing only though you can change if you wish.

Play party to follow should you wish to stay, pay and play.

Out of curiosity, how much of the fee does the submissive get for letting someone "play" with them?

Even prostitutes get a cut of the fee.

So how much of the fee goes to the submissive?

And how much to the pimp?