So my wife wants to be a Sub

[steve_dallas]

Hello forum members,
My wife discovered the Literotica website a few years ago, which led me to the forum section where I have browsed and lurked for awhile.

My wife and I are in our early 30's, been married 10 years, and enjoy a fun and fulfilling sex life. Several years ago, she read the "Sleeping Beauty" series and discovered an interest in spanking and light bondage. We have slowly explored these and stretched the boundaries a little at a time.

All along, she has given me good natured grief about not being rough enough. I'm not submissive, just always been "a nice guy" who thought sex should be about making every effort to bring her to orgasm and giving her a pleasurable experience.

Our experimenting has been as much about me learning how to "use" her rather than trying to please her. It blew my mind the first time she told me that sometimes she just wants me to throw her down, fuck her, and walk away.

So lately, she has become a fan of the Anita Blake vampire novels and appears to have discovered a liking for the BDSM themes in the books. I've read several of them, so I'm developing an idea about what is turning her on.

But the other night, we hit a new threshold. She admitted, somewhat embarrassed, that she liked the idea of being gagged. We played with it some with good results. Then she mentioned the word "master".

I think part of the game is that I am supposed to figure out where this goes without having to come out and ask. It's my job to initiate the process I guess. So my big question- Any advice on how to initiate a master/sub component to our relationship? Any good first steps to make sure reality matches her fantasies?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kikori]

If it's outside of your nature to simply "use" her, it's outside of your nature to use her. You can try to work around that, or she can try to learn to accept that you'll always be worried about her pleasure, but without one (preferably both) of those being discussed and worked on or made clear, luck will not be as much on your side.

A small list of what themes are in the books you're reading (especially the most common) would be helpful.

Just from what I can read, she's masochistic (even if just to a bit), or enjoys the idea of being punished. I can't decide which, since the reason for the spanking wasn't made clear.
Gagging her puts her under your control, since it would mean your word is the only word that could be heard. So at least, if part of her desire is to become something of your toy, you have a reason in that to not drop her pleasure from the equation. Rather, if she wants to be your toy, force it to be. If she wants you to use her for your pleasure, she can most likely understand that your pleasure won't be as special to you unless she experiences it, too. The fact that she can't object to it due to being gagged will probably help.

Now, one thing confuses me. She's been through here, and you've lurked here. Yet the word "Master" came up. If I remember right (which I might get corrected on), the PYL/pyl labels are like this...

Top & Bottom, simply who is in charge of the sex at the time. Most vanilla.
Dom(me) & Sub, a full-fledged leader through sex, more on the kinky side, though restricted mainly to in bed or the bedroom.
Master / Mistress & slave is pretty much the Master / Mistress being the one in charge of everything possible. Sex, and a lot of life aspects.

If I remember right and this is the case, if she knows what "Master" implies, that's what you're in for. If nothing else gets talked about, the degree of control she wants to have placed in your hands needs to be talked about. It'd suck, after all, if she expected you to make her your slave out in public when you only intented to gag her and make her moan silently all night long in bed.

 

[steve_dallas]

Thanks for the reply Kikori,
There are probably more facets to this question than I posted in the first comment.

I am not uncomfortable with what is happening, it is just a bit foreign to me. Sometimes she smiles and says she thinks I'm enjoying my role a little too much.

We talk constantly about just about everything, especially sex. But I think this is one area where she chooses not to just come out and say what she wants. Again, I think maybe it is designed to make me take the initiative. I'm fine with that, but I'll admit I could use a little advice on how to get it right.

I'm not sure where to categorize the roles. She likes to read the stories here, I like to browse the forum, so she isn't reading the threads here. At the moment, this experiment is limited to the bedroom.

 

[Zachariah_Cane]

Deleted

 

[steve_dallas]

We are definitely evolving. We are open about discussing things we never could have discussed 10 years ago.

I know that she is turned on by aggression, pain, and being forcibly taken. We've been exploring these for awhile. But the introduction of the word "Master" was new.

More specifically, she had told me earlier that there were still things that she was embarrassed to admit turned her on. I asked what and she wouldn't answer. But later, in bed, she says, "Good night, master." Now that sounds like a little thing, but I know how to read her. It was definitely an invitation, but that was all she would say.

That's why I'm looking for some guidelines on where to begin with an actual dom/sub relationship; I think she is ready to make it official; no more tip toeing around it just because it seems embarrassing.

 

[Zachariah_Cane]

Deleted

 

[Stella_Omega]

Your wife may be in the throes of an OMIGOD IT'S TRUE! reaction. Many of us go through this the first time we read novels like Sleeping Beauty (with its myth of total immersion). I like to call it the greedy Pussy syndrome. It seems as if you could take on the world, and soak up every bit of attention those Masters and Mistresses hand out. The fact that all of the Masters and Mistresses in the Beauty books are themselves beautiful doesn't hurt
But those Masters and Mistresses are not so much into the training of a sub. And yeah, they magically know everything their little (also beautiful) victims want to have happen. Well, sure-- that's why Rice wrote the things, no matter what she says about them now....

Your wife is going to have to get over that reflex. Telepathically perfect tops only exist in the stories. You can start by 'forcing' her to 'admit' to what she really wants. This can be a lot of sexy fun in of itself....

 

[YourCaptor]

Heres my advice

Find some sexual stuff that you want to do, that is new to her, or makes her a bit uncomfortable or exited. Sounds like the hard part of that in your case isnt reading her, but finding something you are interested in. You could tie her up and do her, anal, deep throat, on the floor, on a table, whatever.

When you go for it, don't be uneasy about it, it's fine to be exited, but at least appear like you know what you are doing. You don't even have to be good at it, chances are she wont notice, remember it's about the sex, not about procedure. Improvise.

Then you have to change your mindset, this may be hard. Instead of going for a mutual experience, toy with her instead. Play with her body, play with her mind. You can always do the mutual thing tomorrow, so don't worry about it.

Then at some point throughout the day, talk about it, evolve.

 

[BLoved]

So my big question- Any advice on how to initiate a master/sub component to our relationship? Any good first steps to make sure reality matches her fantasies?

~smile~

Steve, reading your posts is like a walk down Memory Lane. What you've written could have been said about my first relationship involving bdsm.

I would say the two of you are approaching this in a sensible, loving way, and I applaud you for it.

As master you are the one who defines the rules. You are the one who sets the standards that define the relationship. You are the one who makes the final decision.

Obviously this only works for as long as your decisions are beneficial to your beloved. This involves consulting with her before making a decision, and obtaining feedback from her about decisions made (as these decisions are applied). As you may have guessed, communication is just as important, if not moreso, in a master/slave relationship as it is in a husband/wife relationship.

To be a master is, essentially, to be a leader. You must have a clear idea of where you want to lead her, and how you are going to get her there. Again, consultation is important. What does she wish to explore, who does she wish to be? These are important questions to be answered as you formulate your plans for the future. And as the two of you progress, these answers may change, so talking with her about this on an ongoing basis is also important, to keep what you do relevant to her needs.

In a very real sense, a master serves the needs of his slave just as a slave serves the needs of her master. You are helping her grow as a person, as your beloved, as a slave. You are the one who keeps her safe, so that she might be free to discover all she can be, to discover her potential for love. You inspire her to be her best for you, as she inspires you to be your best for her.

Y'in yang - the harmonious balance of opposites.

The essence of bdsm is that it is a method for expressing love, respect and trust. It isn't about technique or kink, but rather it is a challenge to both of you to explore your potential for love, respect and trust.

It is about being selfless.

Just as her need to explore bdsm has taken you out of your comfort zone, so your needs must gradually bring her out of her comfort zone. If she is not faced with a challenging task, she need not develop her potential for love or trust. Only when faced with some difficulty does she discover a need to explore her potential and develop it, just as you are developing your potential to love her as a result of the difficulties inherent in being a master.

Obviously the degree of difficulty must be based on her abilities as well as your own. Create a situation that demands too much, and she fails, disappointing herself and you. It would be akin to asking a toddler to run a marathon.

Like an exercise program, you want to start easy, and gradually increase the degree of difficulty, building upon past successes.

Learn from past mistakes and do your best not to repeat them. But also recognize that we all make mistakes from time to time, we all stumble and fall when learning to walk.

The 'trick' is to recognize what the toddler already knows: there is no success if we fall down and never get up again. With compassion, understanding, respect and encouragement getting up is made that much easier.

BDSM is about selfless love. As long as your primary concern is her safety, I don't think you can go far wrong.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Thanks for the reply Kikori,
There are probably more facets to this question than I posted in the first comment.

I am not uncomfortable with what is happening, it is just a bit foreign to me. Sometimes she smiles and says she thinks I'm enjoying my role a little too much.

We talk constantly about just about everything, especially sex. But I think this is one area where she chooses not to just come out and say what she wants. Again, I think maybe it is designed to make me take the initiative. I'm fine with that, but I'll admit I could use a little advice on how to get it right.

I'm not sure where to categorize the roles. She likes to read the stories here, I like to browse the forum, so she isn't reading the threads here. At the moment, this experiment is limited to the bedroom.

If she's having trouble saying things outright, could she write them down?

Say, she wrote a letter, outlining her wishes/desires/needs to give you a better idea, and left it for you next to your morning coffee?

It would take a little of the personal confrontation out of it.

Also, I think maybe, just my opinion mind you, but you need to maybe ease back on the pressure a little. Don't aim for 'Master' straight away... ease into it. Let it develop.

 

[Bette_coquette]

Put her in a sit/stay on the floor of the bathroom while you shower and shave. I'll bet she absolutely loves it.

 

[steve_dallas]

If she's having trouble saying things outright, could she write them down?

Say, she wrote a letter, outlining her wishes/desires/needs to give you a better idea, and left it for you next to your morning coffee?

It would take a little of the personal confrontation out of it.

Also, I think maybe, just my opinion mind you, but you need to maybe ease back on the pressure a little. Don't aim for 'Master' straight away... ease into it. Let it develop.

I think her quietness is less about the embarrassment and more of a stubborn refusal, for fun of course. She enjoys making me drag her kicking and screaming (figuratively and sometimes literally). For example, when she gets in the mood, she will aggravate me, poke and prod me until I grab her and force myself on her. It's a fun game and we both enjoy it.

One additional question I have. She really enjoys struggling into submissiveness. She will fight me, scratching and yelling until I enter her and then she stops and completely submits. Does it make sense that she may be transitioning to a mindset where she would wants to be directed into submission rather than physically forced? Is that a common thing among submissive women?

 

[DVS]

If she's having trouble telling you what she wants...force her. I bet she'd enjoy being bound and then taken over your knee and forced to tell you what she would like you to do to her. Of course, if she doesn't give you an answer quick enough to satisfy you, you spank her for a while. Then, you give her another chance to tell you. If she doesn't tell you then, again you spank her.

You either get out of her what she enjoys, or you both have a little fun with the spanking. If she doesn't ever give in and tell you what she'd enjoy having you do to her, you could gag her and spank her some more. The gag would tell her you are done listening to her and you've decided what she will get.

Being a Dom doesn't always mean you are always giving her punishment, as in pain. Look at things a little differently. She wants to be bound and gagged? Tie her in a position you would enjoy seeing her in, and then gag her. Then, play with her and take her to the edge of cuming, but don't let her cum.

Back off for a bit and let her calm down, then play with her some more, taking her to the edge again. Do this for a few times, and then finally let her cum. She might enjoy that.

You can also force her to cum against her will. Once she's tied and gagged, play with her and make her cum. Keep it up until she cums again and again. I'll bet she will enjoy the lack of control and also enjoy the fact that you have taken charge and are using her body against her.

After a short while, advance into adding the type of pain she enjoys to one of these scenarios. Go back and forth between pleasure and pain. I think you'll have her squirming from your control in no time.

 

[ninser]

I think her quietness is less about the embarrassment and more of a stubborn refusal, for fun of course. She enjoys making me drag her kicking and screaming (figuratively and sometimes literally). For example, when she gets in the mood, she will aggravate me, poke and prod me until I grab her and force myself on her. It's a fun game and we both enjoy it.

One additional question I have. She really enjoys struggling into submissiveness. She will fight me, scratching and yelling until I enter her and then she stops and completely submits. Does it make sense that she may be transitioning to a mindset where she would wants to be directed into submission rather than physically forced? Is that a common thing among submissive women?

It really makes sense to me somtimes I feel like I am fighting myself. Once i get in the mindset though I love it.

It might be helpful for her to chat to other subs because sometimes it can be very difficult to get your head around it.

 

[littleunicorn918]

This seems to be very close to what my SO and are are going through. I wqill definately be sharing this thread with him tonight Communication is key to all of this. I haven't read the Beauty series yet, but I have them on hold from the Library.
We have slowly been exploring. lately his "playful spankings" have increased in intensity, so I know that we are progressing. I have started to write things down to share with him. Since we are apart we don't always have time to talk over everything when we do get to see each other. It gives me a chance to not forget something for the next time we talk or are together.

Here is a link i came across that has book recommendations. I hope the two of you will find it helpful.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=526118

BLoved..... I was all choked up reading your post. the points you made struck home with me. I think it will help my SO to get an idea of the way I look at things. Thank You!!

Thank you for all the ideas. I hope to see more.

 

[where]

.....

 

[LaRocha]

cool story, bro? or no?

 

[steve_dallas]

cool story, bro? or no?

Since I'm new here, I'm not sure if you are asking am I for real or am I making it up? If that's your question, we are for real. Just an average couple learning how to truly enjoy each other.

 

[steve_dallas]

about the 'master' thing. If she isn't that au fait with the whole bdsm etiquette and stuff, she could have been using 'master' in an almost role-playing sense. It doesn't necessarily mean she wants to go 24/7 with this as a lifestyle. I know this contradicts what kikori said, which is also how I also understand the terms to be used, but not everyone plays by the rules even if they know them, so I will often refer to my beloved as "master" even though I'm not even his sub, really.

I think you are correct. This isn't a 24/7 thing. This is bedroom only. At least for now. I think she just wants to experience it, try it out and see how it fits. We have had other things we thought would be fun, tried them and decided they just didn't add much to our experience.

That's why I'm asking for ideas, I want to get it right. I'd hate for her to give up on it because I didn't get my part right and ruined the experience.

 

[Adakgirl]

she had told me earlier that there were still things that she was embarrassed to admit turned her on. I asked what and she wouldn't answer. But later, in bed, she says, "Good night, master." Now that sounds like a little thing, but I know how to read her. It was definitely an invitation, but that was all she would say.

.it's kinda like this..scenario to get the general idea: When she said "Good night master" you might say something like this,

"I don't recall you asking my permission to sleep my dear.You will stay awake and do my bidding until I am finished with you for the night, Do you understand?" or " Do you think you are going to get away with not answering the question I posed to you earlier?" or "Did I say you could go to sleep yet?"
Get the picture?

She really enjoys struggling into submissiveness. She will fight me, scratching and yelling until I enter her and then she stops and completely submits.

Yes, she submits when she's ready to submit.. a forcible rape/resist turn-on that most women enjoy. How bout you bind her, control her so she can't fight you...and then make her wait for it. Show her that you have the control, right now she does certain things to get you to react the way she wants you to react, so she gets what she wants. Turn the table a bit...take the scene out of her hands and put it in yours, plan it, use your imagination.

Gagged with arms bound behind her back and her feet secured in some way (nylons, bandannas, silk scarfs, rope) (safety first, chk the library here for that info) . make her sit in a chair...tease and taunt her but don't give her what she wants..is a good way for you to determine if she's serious about submitting to YOUR desires and wishes or if this is all a sexual get- me- off game for her.

just some suggestions...submission can be a bit complicated..I suggest you read up on the subjects and topics involved. It's about the mind fucking not necessary about the physical fucking. You can take her body but can you Dominate her mind? Do you have mental power over her to do that.

 

[infinity706]

I think her quietness is less about the embarrassment and more of a stubborn refusal, for fun of course. She enjoys making me drag her kicking and screaming (figuratively and sometimes literally). For example, when she gets in the mood, she will aggravate me, poke and prod me until I grab her and force myself on her. It's a fun game and we both enjoy it.

One additional question I have. She really enjoys struggling into submissiveness. She will fight me, scratching and yelling until I enter her and then she stops and completely submits. Does it make sense that she may be transitioning to a mindset where she would wants to be directed into submission rather than physically forced? Is that a common thing among submissive women?

Well, if I'm getting the right impression from your posts, I'll tell you what I'd personally do. I'd tie her up and tell her that she's going to have her pussy whipped and that I'm going to keep hitting it until she decides to tell me at least one of her embarassing fantasies. Afterward, she's going to be fucked hard, so it'll be up to her as to how sore and red her cunt will be when that happens. I always think that's quite an interesting exercise for a sub that's not sure about comfort levels, yet. Afterall, it lets her decide her own punishment for herself to an extent. It also lets her show you exactly how severe she'd like. It also has the control aspect that she's going to get pounded regardless of anything. It should take a lot of the worry out of it for you, too, since she could have gotten off with nothing but getting fucked if she chose. Every smack on her beaten beaver was her choice, since she had an out at any time. Finally, cunts tend to be very sensitive and you can probably just keep hitting the same spot with moderate force to increase the soreness without really having to worry about bruising if you're not going for that. It's a good idea to have a safe word, but if she doesn't use it you can just let her be as feisty as she wants.

Well, that's how I'd go at the whole being used for your pleasure thing. Afterall, if she's really sore from a whipping, it'll proabably be uncomfortable for her unless she's one of those people that really gets excited from sexual pain. Of course, if she's the type that has orgasms from a good cunt whipping, she'll probably be more eager to get it over with right after that since it'll hurt even more, right after she gets off, unless she's wanting to hold out for a second one.

 

[steve_dallas]

Well, I experimented a little last night.

I began by simply saying, "Give me a kiss." She said, "No" which led to "get away from me" and eventually to me holding her down and spanking her. Through it all, she stubbornly refused. I was spanking her, occasionally stopping to repeat the demand.

I was spanking her pretty hard and I know it hurt. After several minutes of her ducking her head under her arms and wimpering, I wussed out.

I stopped and told her that she won. She rolled over smiling and then gave me a big kiss.

So we discussed the fact that I wasn't yet capable of beating her into submission. She made the comment that I was getting closer.

All of that happened in the living room. We then retired to the bedroom where be both read for awhile. At one point I told her to finish the chapter she was on and let me know because I wanted her. After a few minutes, she basically spread her legs and kept reading.

We have been married for 10 years and she has never just laid there and I've never asked her to. But tonight, that was the whole point. So I screwed her while she read, with some occasional conversation mixed in about how I was practicing not worrying about pleasing her. She actually pushed me away any time I made a move to make it more pleasurable for her.

Then another interesting thing happened. I told her to open her mouth for me and of course she refused. I repeated the request and added that "it would please me" for her to do so. This appears to be the magic words!

She sucked me for awhile and then when I went back to screwing her, she was visibly aroused. I told her that after all the fighting and protesting, at the end of the day, she would do the things I asked her to do because she knew that it pleases me. She looked up at me with this drunken stupor gaze and proceeded to orgasm.

I told her that it would please me if she licked me clean, which she has never done before, and she promptly did so as soon as I was off of her.

This new level of submission seems to be separate from the physical submission we have engaged in. I guess one of the themes to explore will be her allowing me to punish her as it pleases me rather that her, but it doesn't seem to be intrinsically pain based.

Sorry for the long ramble. Does it sound like I'm on the right track in gauging her behavior?

 

[rosco rathbone]

I was spanking her pretty hard and I know it hurt. After several minutes of her ducking her head under her arms and wimpering, I wussed out.

I stopped and told her that she won. She rolled over smiling and then gave me a big kiss.

"She won"??

I don't like to hear that at all.

 

[Bette_coquette]

I think you're on the right track.

 

[JMohegan]

Well, I experimented a little last night.

I began by simply saying, "Give me a kiss." She said, "No" which led to "get away from me" and eventually to me holding her down and spanking her. Through it all, she stubbornly refused. I was spanking her, occasionally stopping to repeat the demand.

I was spanking her pretty hard and I know it hurt. After several minutes of her ducking her head under her arms and wimpering, I wussed out.

I stopped and told her that she won. She rolled over smiling and then gave me a big kiss.

So we discussed the fact that I wasn't yet capable of beating her into submission. She made the comment that I was getting closer.

All of that happened in the living room. We then retired to the bedroom where be both read for awhile. At one point I told her to finish the chapter she was on and let me know because I wanted her. After a few minutes, she basically spread her legs and kept reading.

We have been married for 10 years and she has never just laid there and I've never asked her to. But tonight, that was the whole point. So I screwed her while she read, with some occasional conversation mixed in about how I was practicing not worrying about pleasing her. She actually pushed me away any time I made a move to make it more pleasurable for her.

Then another interesting thing happened. I told her to open her mouth for me and of course she refused. I repeated the request and added that "it would please me" for her to do so. This appears to be the magic words!

She sucked me for awhile and then when I went back to screwing her, she was visibly aroused. I told her that after all the fighting and protesting, at the end of the day, she would do the things I asked her to do because she knew that it pleases me. She looked up at me with this drunken stupor gaze and proceeded to orgasm.

I told her that it would please me if she licked me clean, which she has never done before, and she promptly did so as soon as I was off of her.

This new level of submission seems to be separate from the physical submission we have engaged in. I guess one of the themes to explore will be her allowing me to punish her as it pleases me rather that her, but it doesn't seem to be intrinsically pain based.

Sorry for the long ramble. Does it sound like I'm on the right track in gauging her behavior?

There's a lot I could say about this, but let's just take one small example.

I haven't read any of the books your wife finds so hot, so I've got no idea how to role play those characters. But you mention that she gives you grief for not being rough enough, so I'll focus on that.

There's really no part of raw animal lust that has anything to do with "please finish your chapter."

Your wife's been giving you sass all evening, and you want to fuck her? Then take the book, hurl it across the room, flip her over, pin her down, and do just that.