24/7 and children...

[sb2009]

this may not come out exactly the way I mean it, so bear with me! From reading on Fetlife, not so much here, there are some people who are really seriously so deeply M/s/D/s - you get the idea - that it is in every aspect of thier lives.

So am wondering, in some ways, would this HYPOTHETICALLY possibly lead to some issues with a child who grows up in this environment?

I'm thinking of some people who's posts I read, who have young children. Thier lifestyle, for example, is such that they don't eat without permission, etc. Some have isolation as part of their dynamic, so that the only person they see is their PYL, yet they also mention having young children. Some say they only associate with other Master/slave famlies becuase they don't want any other influences in thier lives, etc. That sort of thing.

So my mind wanders and I think...what if, for example, this young person grows up and thinks that this is the way every family is.

I'm not really trying to be a judgemental cow...I think of these things because I was raised in a very non-traditional home that was the only "right" way to be and it took me a while to adjust to the outside world.

So I'm curious if anyone knows any families like this, that thier particular kink was such an integral part of thier lives that they only associated with other people of the same sort of lifestyle, and if thier grown children carried on the same way?

 

[seela]

I don't have kids, but at some point I will have and that has lead me to wondering about many of the same things you do.

But like you mention, there are kids growing up in all kinds of homes. Fundamental religious, overboard feminist, alcoholic, violent, white/black power... In all of these environment kids can pick up habits probably not very beneficial to them, but somehow then plow through life.

I think the most important thing for the kid to see is that mom and dad love each other and respect each other. Even if it's untraditional love, or very traditional love. It's also necessary at some point explain to the kid that there are many kinds of families and no such thing as One True Way (tm). No sex/punishment etc. in front of the kid goes without saying, right?

That said, I do find it questionable, if even the kids aren't allowed to meet other families than those who live the 24/7 M/s life. How about their grandparents and other relatives? Don't they ever go on sleepovers with their friends from school? Those would be instances where the kid gets to see other kinds of families. M/s is a dynamic between the parents and the kids shouldn't be a part of it. If M wants to restrict s' outings, it shouldn't mean that the kids never see the outside world either.

I don't think kids automatically absorbe everything from the parents' relationship model. They see other types of families and relationships on TV, in school, in everyday life.

 

[Netzach]

I think it's a great way to do all but ensure a vanilla enters the adult world.

 

[kittyn_]

Honestly, the main thing that I've always wondered about with this type of situation, is what happens when the child is in school and a well meaning teacher pieces things together the wrong way. Enough hints dropped "Well, Mom would have to ask Dad, he gets to make the final decision." Just enough little things adding up to serious worry for an uninvolved authority figure, basically.

I do recall reading somewhere, a long time ago, about a woman trying to explain how things worked in her life. She called her Master 'Sir' in front of the kids, just explaining it as southern manners, they agreed that for on the spot decisions about things like sleepovers and etc that whoever was asked could answer unless that party felt that it was something that needed the others input, etc. In hers it was a bit different though, since the children were from her first marriage and, I'm assuming, had contact with their father, at a minimum.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I do not do 24/7 anything, because my children don't deserve to have my sex life shoved in their faces. I don't think i could be comfortable or accepting of anyone who did that to their children.

That's just the way that goes. We know that having kids means compromises.

 

[Keroin]

We know that having kids means compromises.

Which is why I am child-free. Selfish, selfish K

 

[Stella_Omega]

Which is why I am child-free. Selfish, selfish K

I don't think the human race is going to die of attrition because you've chosen not to make more of us!

 

[ownedsubgal]

I do not do 24/7 anything, because my children don't deserve to have my sex life shoved in their faces. I don't think i could be comfortable or accepting of anyone who did that to their children.

That's just the way that goes. We know that having kids means compromises.

for some of us this is not our "sex life," but simply our life. that is not something you can hide from your children, nor would attempting to do so be in any way beneficial to those children.

to the OP...my Master has a son whom he has raised alone for most of the child's life. also for most of the child's life, he has been raised in a M/s household. my Master's son is 15. i have been a slave for 10 years, prior to that Daddy had another slave for about 3 years. so this particular relationship dynamic is more familiar to him than any other.

my life is drastically different from that of the "typical" woman of the day, in many ways. i am unable to drive, i do not work outside the home, i do not go anyplace alone. i have no offline friends outside of my Master. my entire life's focus is serving him, pleasing him, being consumed by him. however in contrast my Master's life is pretty "normal," if there is such a thing. He goes to work, he has an active social life, a variety of friends, many hobbies which he has great passion for, etc.

now one might assume that living in such a household where there are such radically different roles between male and female would "brainwash" a child into thinking that this is the only way. however it has always been made clear to my Master's son that the way we live is our personal choice, and everyone else is entitled to make their own choices about how they wish to live, including him. i also believe there may be something to what Netz said, that by exposing a child to such a fixed power dynamic almost guarantees they will grow up vanilla, lol. that is certainly true of my Master's son...there is no hint of either dominance or submissiveness in his nature, he will definitely not be following in our footsteps relationship-wise.

 

[intothewoods]

We don't really know the root cause of desires and personality traits, so it's not like exposing your child to kink will make them turn kinky.

A lot of this is a personal judgment call as a parent.

I don't expose my child to anything that might put our family at risk. I wouldn't want him to tell his teachers that I have bruises, for example, and then the teacher has to call social services and god knows what happens next. So we keep that private.

As far as collars and asking permission and the various things mentioned in the OP, we really don't have a need for anything that translates into a big display. My PYL can exert authority without having me ask for permission to eat. He just doesn't have any interest in being in charge of that. It's important that my child see what a healthy partnership looks like, and I was worried that I might somehow give him the message that all men run all households. My husband and I really are a team (so maybe he's team captain or something like that ), so that fear was unfounded.

Our flavor of bdsm is really between us. We don't need to display it to the world, our kids, etc.

And as far as seeing diversity in relationships, I guess that is one benefit of raising my kid in a diverse urban setting. We have a lot of traditional families around us, gay parents, single parents, yada yada.

The most important thing is a loving and stable home. Not too much attention, not too little attention. It's really not rocket science, but a little self-awareness is a good thing.

I mean, I have seen lot of parents go through a rebirth of their sexuality, then behave like they're newly out and proud and everything is about kink, to the extent that they become totally self-absorbed and obnoxious. You can have your moment of becoming your true self, but your kid just wants you to show up for little league games.

 

[ownedsubgal]

just thought i'd share something kinda cute from a few minutes ago, relating to this topic:

t., my Master's son, has been away the past week at his maternal grandparents. although my Master has primary custody, for the past few years the time spent with us vs. them has been about 70/30. so he is back home now for the next couple of weeks, having been just dropped off by grandma. after struggling up the stairs with all his stuff, he loudly proclaims down the hallway, "luuuucy, i'm hoooome!" lol.

somehow i don't think living in a M/s household has traumatized him.

 

[sb2009]

I hope my post didn't imply any trauma LOL

So not that's cleared up ;-) Did you have a talk one day with him about how your choices are yours and not everyone is like that, or did it just happen organically? For example, my kids know there are lots of types of families, but it has been through meeting people, etc. I never had a powerpoint meeting about "Heather Has Two Mommies" or "Some People Go to Church Every Sunday, but We Don't and That's OK"...etc

Also, I am not implying that anyone is doing sessy time in front of kids...

 

[sb2009]

I wish I could figure out what I am trying to get at LOL Grrr.... I guess it's just a general feeling that there are so many variations out there.

I think it stemmped from the Submissive Women thread about how to id abuse in a BDSM relationship (which pretty much is consolildated into:

If you don't like it (but wait, I didn't like it but PYL programed me to like it so we can't say that!)

ok, if you ask for help (but wait! I have a consentual non consent relationship so if I ask for help my friends are supposed to bring me back to PYL so he can keep me in line until I get my head back on straight)

ok, if you are so permentally damanged psychologically or physically that you can't function (EXCEPT if your kink is to be psychological or physical damage)

so really, I'm probably just imagining that there are households where pyls are living with no limbs, crying for help but everyone knows they really don't mean it LOL

anyway..when I read that thread, it was when I started to think that for lots of people, it's really, to me, like living on a different planet...and my background of growing up in a environment that was so different than most, made me curious about how it.

Gah, I'm really not wording things well. Ok, GOR!! What about people who live Gor 24/7, really really live it...do thier kids grow up thinking they live on the planet Gor? Or what? LOL

 

[BiBunny]

When I was growing up, I lived in a house with two people who hated each other. So did the other married couples around me. I knew that happily married couples existed; I just didn't know any of them personally. The only thing it did to me was make me determined not to get married to someone just for the sake of appearances.

I'd imagine that being raised in a D/s house would be similar, only without all the dysfunction.

 

[sb2009]

I really and NOT trying to say anything is bad (unless it scares the horses! that is bad!)

I honestly feel that most parents really want what is best for thier kids and do thier best to raise them to be healthy and happy. I think it's pretty rare for anyone to fuck up thier kids on purpose. Even my crazy mother *tried*.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I hope my post didn't imply any trauma LOL

So not that's cleared up ;-) Did you have a talk one day with him about how your choices are yours and not everyone is like that, or did it just happen organically? For example, my kids know there are lots of types of families, but it has been through meeting people, etc. I never had a powerpoint meeting about "Heather Has Two Mommies" or "Some People Go to Church Every Sunday, but We Don't and That's OK"...etc

Also, I am not implying that anyone is doing sessy time in front of kids...

sb your question was a very good one, and one i think every parent who lives D/s as an overall way of life and philosophy needs to think about seriously. don't worry, you have expressed yourself just fine.

in our case my Master did have several talks with his son (at various ages) about our way of life. he also asked his own questions as he got older and had more experiences at the homes of other kids where things were very veeeery different, to say the least lol. He understands that we live this way because it is an expression of who we are, it's what fulfills us and what works for us, but it does not work for everyone because everyone is different, etc.

we do not use overt terminology like Master and slave around him, but he is well aware of the power dynamic in the house. like, he knows that his father and i are not equals. he knows that his father makes all significant decisions, and that i must be obedient always. he knows that if i happen to slip up, i may be disciplined or punished (this had to be explained to him due to an incident when he was 5 and walked in on my being beaten...eek!). he knows that i have zero authority, including any authority over him. he knows that his father protects me and takes care of me. and he knows, of course, that we love each other very, very much. that last bit seems to be the most important to him...he likes a calm, pleasant household.

 

[Keroin]

I don't think the human race is going to die of attrition because you've chosen not to make more of us!

Don't you know who I think I am??!

 

[chy_girl]

*snip*
Gah, I'm really not wording things well. Ok, GOR!! What about people who live Gor 24/7, really really live it...do thier kids grow up thinking they live on the planet Gor? Or what? LOL

Gor (and what I know of it) is one of the examples I think of when talking about the more extreme 24/7. And I understand about talking with the kids and explaining personal choices, but I always wonder about the families who are isolationists and don't discuss such things with the kids.

The thought of a little girl being raised in that kind of extreme environment is at best worrisome. As is the chance that as she gets older and starts maturing that some of attitudes toward the mother's worth will transfer onto the daughter. And granted, there are parallels to the treatment of women in other cultures but everything I've seen suggests... adaptability(?) issues when she is introduced to Western culture - and I can see the that happening to the hypothetical little girl.

It just seems like the chance of unintentionally raising a future victim is a bit high. But maybe that's simply because I see live with the kids who've experienced the worst of humanity and am naturally inclined to see the possible slippery slopes of less than ethical 24/7.

 

[FloggingMolly]

This is a really fascinating topic, but I have nothing useful to add as we arent there yet.

@ownedsubgal : How does his son interact with you? Are you in charge, as an adult, or are you seen as also being under his fathers rules, and therefore an equal?

 

[ownedsubgal]

This is a really fascinating topic, but I have nothing useful to add as we arent there yet.

@ownedsubgal : How does his son interact with you? Are you in charge, as an adult, or are you seen as also being under his fathers rules, and therefore an equal?

hi Molly. you could say that status wise i'm more of an equal to my Master's son. i have no authority over him whatsoever. he treats me like a buddy or a big sister...i help with homework, we talk about school drama and pop culture, play video games, etc. he also tells me secrets.

 

[FloggingMolly]

That's pretty good then. Has it always been that way?

 

[ownedsubgal]

That's pretty good then. Has it always been that way?

no, in the very beginning when Daddy and i did not live together i didn't have much contact with him, so these issues didn't really come up. then there was a somewhat awkward period of adjustment when i moved in and he had to get used to me (and i to him!). then there was a brief period which i blame on adolescence, where he would imitate his father's treatment of me. like, telling me to do things rather than asking, etc. that required a little talking-to as well.

but for the past couple of years things have been great. he respects me and even seems to admire my submission. i think our relationship has finally pretty much "settled" into itself.