How Much is Too Much?

[AsylumSeeker]

I just want to help writers develop. Somtimes I find myself rewriting a few sentences. What is best for the writers? I had been hoping they can realize my edits and learn from them. Other editors have shared that they send back some stories to be rewritten.

This is a slippery slope.

 

[Darkniciad]

I haven't done many full-fledged edits -- and those mostly for very much untried first-timers that I can actually help beyond a first-reader capacity -- but it's a situational thing for me.

If there's a quirk or a few passages that feel a bit off, I'll sometimes rewrite those using as much of the original text as possible, and doing my best to conform to the voice in the rest of the narrative, all while making it read with fewer bumps.

If the whole story feels like driving over a washboard road, I usually hit the biggest cringe points, offer some examples, and suggest a second draft taking those into consideration. A couple of things I might be able to tweak without taking away the author's voice. Not so the whole story.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Thanks, DK. Just trying to find balance.

 

[_Lynn_]

I just want to help writers develop. Somtimes I find myself rewriting a few sentences. What is best for the writers? I had been hoping they can realize my edits and learn from them. Other editors have shared that they send back some stories to be rewritten.

This is a slippery slope.

When working with newer writers, I've made suggestions on the first page or so then sent it back for them to rewrite. Most of them took the comments and turned their initial work into a better story. A few decided writing was too much work and not for them. If I change too much then it becomes my story, not theirs.

My hope is they learn something from each edit, improving their writing ability and making less work for me.

 

[sr71plt]

I think "rewriting" someone else's sentences is already beyond too much. On a site like this questions/suggestions/explanations of why something else might work better/minor standard corrections that are clearly seen by the author and up the author to accept/reject. Those are on the "good editor" side of the line.

"Good editing" is never forgetting that it's the author's story, not the editor's and the editor not taking ownership deeper than it being the author's choice/responsibility for making it as good as is possible/as they would like it to be (mostly through their own effort).

 

[bronzeage]

When working with newer writers, I've made suggestions on the first page or so then sent it back for them to rewrite. Most of them took the comments and turned their initial work into a better story. A few decided writing was too much work and not for them. If I change too much then it becomes my story, not theirs.

My hope is they learn something from each edit, improving their writing ability and making less work for me.

I have worked with a lot of writers who want to submit their first story to Lit. There is no point to doing a line by line edit/proof read for a story with major plot problems. I have sent many stories back with notes about what needs to be changed. Some parts should be reduced, some expanded and some deleted. New writers often miss great opportunities which could make the story richer, while getting tangled in details which mean nothing to the story.

A few years ago, I received a story about a sexual encounter at a company picnic. The writer spent almost half a page describing the caterer's elaborate trailered barbecue grill. It was impressive technical writing, but did nothing for the story.

When the plot and characters are satisfactory, I correct spelling and grammar. I will rearrange clauses in sentences when needed. If a sentence cannot be reworked with the writer's words, I send it back, with instructions.

I make it clear I will not rewrite a story, or take a plot and write the entire story. A few writers have decided it was too much work, but most have stuck with it and finished the job.

 

[driphoney]

I have worked with a lot of writers who want to submit their first story to Lit. There is no point to doing a line by line edit/proof read for a story with major plot problems. I have sent many stories back with notes about what needs to be changed. Some parts should be reduced, some expanded and some deleted. New writers often miss great opportunities which could make the story richer, while getting tangled in details which mean nothing to the story.

When I went hunting for an editor, the above was primarily what I wanted. I had trouble effectively communicating that. I couldn't tell if the editors were not doing that for me because it was too much work, they didn't do that kind of editing, or my story was the best thing since Gone with the Wind, which I highly doubted.

I'm still trying to figure out plot arc, how to insert tension while keeping verisimilitude, sprinkle in foreshadowing. You know, all that stuff that actually makes a story!

 

[_Lynn_]

When I went hunting for an editor, the above was primarily what I wanted. I had trouble effectively communicating that. I couldn't tell if the editors were not doing that for me because it was too much work, they didn't do that kind of editing, or my story was the best thing since Gone with the Wind, which I highly doubted.

I'm still trying to figure out plot arc, how to insert tension while keeping verisimilitude, sprinkle in foreshadowing. You know, all that stuff that actually makes a story!

The VEs here don't get any training, don't take any testing, don't prove their knowledge in any way. Anyone can add their name to the thread for the month and say they are a VE.

So effective communication fits where? Is that person good at it irl? Are they serious about what they 'signed on' for here? Or was it something they thought sounded good but took too much of their time? And not everyone is good at pointing out negatives to another person.

Finding a good 'editor' here is very difficult, in my opinion.

 

[driphoney]

The VEs here don't get any training, don't take any testing, don't prove their knowledge in any way. Anyone can add their name to the thread for the month and say they are a VE.

So effective communication fits where? Is that person good at it irl? Are they serious about what they 'signed on' for here? Or was it something they thought sounded good but took too much of their time? And not everyone is good at pointing out negatives to another person.

Finding a good 'editor' here is very difficult, in my opinion.

Yep. And when you show up green as a writer, you have to learn this the hard way.

By the way, can you go back and and edit my misused word? "plot arch"? Make it "plot arc"? :

See? I need editing in a bad way!

 

[_Lynn_]

Yep. And when you show up green as a writer, you have to learn this the hard way.

By the way, can you go back and and edit my misused word? "plot arch"? Make it "plot arc"? :

See? I need editing in a bad way!

Done.

 

[BrazenFellow]

I've never rewritten anything in a story. All volunteer editors should have at least one story published (on Literotica), in my mind, so that you can reference it quickly as material for "learn by example".

Writers seeking VE help should never have their hand held. Rewriting sections of a story not only holds hands, it figuratively picks someone up, slings them over a shoulder, and carries them over the stream. Editing can involve paragraph-long editor's notes, I highlight areas that are wrong (grammar etc), explain what has been done wrong, then reference back to that comment every time I see it thereafter.

If there is a poorly worded section or something not relevant to the story - Bronzeage has a great example of this - note it and have them decide what to do with it. You can make suggestions and brief examples but rewriting it is not doing the author any favours and just makes them dependent on editor help. In Bronzeage's example, the technical writing might have served as a good contrast to describing them fucking in detail, but I doubt it as it sounds like it would have been 'a touch' excessive. Rewriting it for them can create an author who is lazy and strains volunteer editor resources too much. "Oh, I don't have to try, the editor will pick up my slack," et cetera.

 

[Firebrain]

Whenever there is an issue which seems to persist for a writer, I make an example of one instance and then I expect them to correct themselves. Editors are not meant to rewrite everything correctly; they are there to acknowledge problems and suggest solutions.

E.g. If I saw that many sentences needed re-writing, I'd do one and explain what I had done and why. I'd then suggest the writer goes through the text and corrects as they see fit.

I expect that anyone who asks for help from an editor would want to learn and I think this is a good way to teach them. When I was teaching, for example, I would point out a spelling mistake but it was up to a student to find the correct spelling and change it.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Good points, thanks. I recall when I first began editing, doing so to where the writer complained I was stealing his story, which was a rude awakenening for me and an indication that I need to back off. I see the wisdom in your responses and so I thank you all for your time.

I can see where I am entering the "slippery slope" and will try to be more of an editor and less of a "crutch" in the future.