The 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm'

[graceanne]

tl;dr

Who did? Talk about loving the 'sound' of his own 'voice'. I just saw the end what he said, and quoted that. The rest was just 'yadda yadda yadda'. I'd check the thread, except I don't care, but does he EVER say anything different or interesting?

 

[BLoved]

Not sure which is more insulting: that they shamelessly twist the truth or that they expect you, the reader, to be too lazy and too stupid to catch them at it.

 

[Etoile]

Everbody just put each other on ignore already. Christ! This isn't constructive in the slightest, you're all going round in he said she said circles, and the respect I had for people before this thread is dropping rapidly thanks to the complete lack of maturity in here.

Won't somebody be the better person and SHUT THE HELL UP? You know whom I'm talking about. If you think that's you, it probably is. Grow a pair and WALK AWAY.

 

[BLoved]

*snort*

You'd know, wouldn't you.

Who did? Talk about loving the 'sound' of his own 'voice'. I just saw the end what he said, and quoted that. The rest was just 'yadda yadda yadda'. I'd check the thread, except I don't care, but does he EVER say anything different or interesting?

Please, people, if you can't keep yourself from responding to this idiot, IGNORE HIM. Every time you reply it makes it that much longer until he GOES AWAY.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/graceanne1978/lit%20images/trolls/Do-not-feed-the-troll.png

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/graceanne1978/lit%20images/trolls/troll.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/graceanne1978/lit%20images/trolls/troll_2.jpg

'Do as we say, not as we do.'

~smile~

 

[BLoved]

Everbody just put each other on ignore already. Christ! This isn't constructive in the slightest, you're all going round in he said she said circles, and the respect I had for people before this thread is dropping rapidly thanks to the complete lack of maturity in here.

Won't somebody be the better person and SHUT THE HELL UP? You know whom I'm talking about. If you think that's you, it probably is. Grow a pair and WALK AWAY.

You are talking to the wall, Etoile.

Casual players are almost always obsessive/compulsive when it comes to criticism of casual 'bdsm'. I've been seeing this behaviour for over two years and on more forums than I can recall.

It is one of the ways in which they are so predictable.

 

[graceanne]

Not sure which is more insulting: that they shamelessly twist the truth or they expect you, the reader, to be too lazy and too stupid to catch them at it.

'Do as we say, not as we do.'

~smile~

Oh, sorry, am I annoying you? My apologies, really. You know, you could put me on ignore. ~smiles~ In the meantime, I'm bored, and you're the only person posting. I tried to just ignore this thread, hoping that everyone would follow my lead, but that wasn't working, so here I am. Getting rid of your stupid ass. *oops* Did I just call you a name? Oh, silly me.

C'mere widdle biddy twolly-poo. You wanna num num? You so cute when you act like a big boy grown up. Does your mama know you come on the growup boards and talk to the big kids?

 

[graceanne]

You are talking to the wall, Etoile.

Casual players are almost always obsessive/compulsive when it comes to criticism of casual 'bdsm'. I've been seeing this behaviour for over two years and on more forums than I can recall.

It is one of the ways in which they are so predictable.

You go on other boards? *coughcough*bullshit

You aren't old enough to know how to type that long.

 

[BLoved]

You go on other boards? *coughcough*bullshit

You aren't old enough to know how to type that long.

~smile~

See what I mean, Etoile?

If they had any self-control, do you really think they'd have revealed so much about their immaturity in public?

 

[graceanne]

~smile~

See what I mean, Etoile?

If they had any self-control, do you really think they'd have revealed so much about their immaturity in public?

I know you are but what I?



Do you really think that I care what a 12 year old like you thinks of my maturity? Seriously, get a grip.

 

[BLoved]

It's like watching a group of gambling addicts ... they're going to keep saying "double or nothing" till they can convince themselves they've won, which won't be till I leave.

They are simply too immature to handle an adult conversation with someone whose ethics disagree with theirs.

It is the "One True (Casual) Way": silence all opposition, eliminate diversity.

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

- Pastor Martin Niemöller

 

[Netzach]

It's like watching a group of gambling addicts ... they're going to keep saying "double or nothing" till they can convince themselves they've won, which won't be till I leave.

They are simply too immature to handle an adult conversation with someone whose ethics disagree with theirs.

It is the "One True (Casual) Way": silence all opposition, eliminate diversity.

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

- Pastor Martin Niemöller

This wins the most disgusting misuse of this quote award.

 

[graceanne]

It's like watching a group of gambling addicts ... they're going to keep saying "double or nothing" till they can convince themselves they've won, which won't be till I leave.

..."

- Pastor Martin Niemöller

*yawn*

I'm so bored, could you PLEASE be interesting? Please?

 

[BLoved]

~smile~

Bedtime.

Be wary of the advice you seek on this forum ...

 

[graceanne]

~smile~

Bedtime.

Run away, little rabbit! Run, run FAR away!

Be wary of the advice you seek on this forum ...

On THAT, we agree.

 

[Netzach]

Watch out for Gestapo!

 

[graceanne]

Watch out for Gestapo!

Hey! That's supposed to be our little secret!

 

[00Syd]

Be wary of the advice you seek on this forum ...

Yeah, go to a munch instead.

 

[graceanne]

Yeah, go to a munch instead.

If he's ever been to a real munch, I'll eat my hat (if I had one). What he knows about bdsm could be written on the head of a pin.

 

[Stella_Omega]

~smile~

See what I mean, Etoile?

If they had any self-control, do you really think they'd have revealed so much about their immaturity in public?

Do you really think pseudonymous posting to a forum is in any way "public?"

Graceann could be sitting on some state Supreme court in real life, for all we know. It's not too likely, but she can be as immature as it pleases her to be on this forum without hurt or hindrance to her real world.

 

[BLoved]

Do you really think pseudonymous posting to a forum is in any way "public?"

Graceann could be sitting on some state Supreme court in real life, for all we know. It's not too likely, but she can be as immature as it pleases her to be on this forum without hurt or hindrance to her real world.

I think by now even Etoile is coming to realize that we are seeing the true nature of those who advocate casual 'bdsm'.

Not the kind of people whom one would want to trust with anything as risky as bdsm.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think by now even Etoile is coming to realize that we are seeing the true nature of those who advocate casual 'bdsm'.

Not the kind of people whom one would want to trust with anything as risky as bdsm.

True nature, huh?

~smile~

 

[BLoved]

Rape has nothing to do with BDSM, same as rape has nothing to do with any consensual act.

I'm glad we agree there are some types of behaviour that do not fall within the definition for BDSM.

So how "consensual" is casual 'bdsm' when consent is obtained under the false premise that casual 'bdsm' is emotionally safe and the participants are not emotionally dysfunctional?

In your world, does consent given as a result of deceit count as a "consensual act" or would you classify it along with rape?

 

[BLoved]

True nature, huh?

~smile~

Ironically, from an outsider's perspective, the more you persist in attacking him the more you strengthen his argument. I urge you all to step back and re-read your own posts.

His actions speak for themselves. But, so do yours.

Everbody just put each other on ignore already. Christ! This isn't constructive in the slightest, you're all going round in he said she said circles, and the respect I had for people before this thread is dropping rapidly thanks to the complete lack of maturity in here.

Won't somebody be the better person and SHUT THE HELL UP? You know whom I'm talking about. If you think that's you, it probably is. Grow a pair and WALK AWAY.

Personally, I think this discussion has been very "constructive".

Novices finally get to see the true nature of casual 'bdsm' advocates, rather than the carefully manicured image advocates manage to present as long as everything is going their way.

Seeing what lurks beneath the surface, novices can make an informed choice rather than being lured in by deceit.

No wonder advocates work so hard to eliminate all opposing views ... as long as there is opposition to their One True (Casual) Way advocates lose all self-control and reveal themselves to be two-faced.

Now imagine their tactics being used on a novice whom they've abused, a novice especially selected for his or her low self-esteem.

--

Self-Respect

Self-respect means to have a healthy concern for your well-being: mental, physical, emotional, and for those who believe in it, spiritual.

It means to take care of yourself, embrace healthy choices and reject unhealthy ones.

It means to be truthful with one's self. To be completely candid. To recognize the consequences for one's decisions and to accept responsibility for those consequences. Not just the consequences as they affect you, but also as they affect others involved.

This is not about how others see you. It is not about flattery or delusions of grandeur.

This is about you taking care of you. A quiet, calm, fair assessment.

That which promotes self-respect is healthy.

That which inhibits self-respect is unhealthy.

To the degree one exhibits these qualities is the degree to which one feels self-respect, and thus the degree to which one can feel and express love towards another.

To the degree one lacks these qualities is the degree to which one feels a lack of self-respect, and thus is susceptible to control by Fear.

Abuse

Abuse is the process of inhibiting self-respect.

The more one believes they are deserving of mental, physical, emotional and/or spiritual degradation, the more inhibited self-respect will be, and thus the greater the abuse done.

This is not a natural condition. Babies are not born believing this.

People are taught to believe this about themselves.

Considering we are all born with an aversion to such treatment, shunning away from it being a natural response, the fact someone believes themselves deserving of nothing better is evidence of past abuse.

At some point she was taught to expect no better treatment, to tolerate the treatment she got ... to see herself "deserving" the abuse.

Whether a submissive is predisposed to abuse because of past abuse, or whether she is unable to see that the dom she loves is incapable of giving love back, either in the hands of a Competitive dom will find his needs are met better the more they inhibit their self-respect.

The longer this goes on, the greater the damage done to their self-respect.

Living with Trauma: Cycles of Self-Destruction

As was described in the previous section, past abuse can predispose a submissive to accept more abuse.

This is not inevitable. Love has a healing quality when it comes to abuse.

Whether the love of one person can heal the abuse suffered by another very much depends on the individuals and the degree to which Love and Fear motivates them.

But there is no cure for abuse but Love.

Love helps to restore self-respect.

Love provides a solid foundation from which one can determine what is real, what is flattery, and what is delusion.

Love does not deceive.

But for those who do not find love, and for those combinations of people where the love of one was insufficient to overcome the fears of the abused, there continues this diminished sense of self-respect.

In their need for relief, they seek solace in the arms of others. But in allowing themselves to be used for the sake of the illusion of being desired they further undermine their self-respect.

Some, convinced they are not doing enough to be desirable, seek to go further, casting off limits if need be, ignoring safety concerns and pushing themselves to the brink of extinction, emotionally if not physically as well.

It is a vicious cycle which, if not stopped, eventually leaves the submissive incapable of accepting love, pushing away anything that looks like love.

After so much abuse, she simply no longer believes in it, or no longer believes herself worthy of it.

She may well go to the extreme of only seeking out situations where there is no chance of Love entering her world.

Jaded and calloused, she may even join in the abuse of others.

After so much abuse, the ability to relate to the feelings of others grows numb.

Just as it does for the domly types who abuse others.

________________________________________

________________________________________

The Case for Love

Love strengthens self-respect, in the lover and the one loved.

Love respects consent and the lack of consent.

Love tolerates no deception.

Love is patient and thorough.

Love never places a beloved at risk.

Love delights in the sharing of discovery and exploration.

Love needs no previous experience.

Love heals.

Love has meaning, not just for one night, but night after night after ...

Love isn't lonely.

Love is much more than lust.

Love challenges us to be our best, because it demands of us that we care for another as much as we care for ourselves.

As we would not deny ourselves our best, so too do we not deny our best to those we love.

To be our best we must be willing to grow, to learn, to explore and discover, always respecting our selves and each other.

Love offers all of this to those who have the courage to believe in themselves, to respect themselves, to respect others.

Love offers itself to those who turn their backs on Fear.

Love offers itself to those who choose to be what they were born to be.

Human.

-- excerpt from "Casual 'BDSM' and Emtional Abuse: The Case for Love"

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I think I'd agree this thread is done, it's turned into Showtime 2.

Oh, and can we please stop quoting the troll pictures?

Ta muchly.

 

[LaRocha]

I'm glad we agree there are some types of behaviour that do not fall within the definition for BDSM.

So how "consensual" is casual 'bdsm' when consent is obtained under the false premise that casual 'bdsm' is emotionally safe and the participants are not emotionally dysfunctional?

In your world, does consent given as a result of deceit count as a "consensual act" or would you classify it along with rape?

Deceit and emotional abuse, dysfunction have nothing to do with BDSM. There are people who are deceived and deceivers, negative human to human intimate relationships, but all that comes before anyone begins categorical BDSM sex acts.

Would you like to show that your BDSM practices are emotionally positive, safe, and enhance you and your partner's relationship? It's silly, you're not the archetype of BDSM. BDSM is what happens after there's a relationship. As far as I know you have a victim and not a partner in your committed 'true' relationship. Maybe BDSM is such a thing that committed BDSM relationships are more unhealthy than casual BDSM encounters.

You can't ignore consensual sex acts(ones which happen to include elements of BDSM) and assume they can't exist as emotionally positive and then pair the consensual case with actual acts of emotional or physical violence. Your argument seems to resemble: Intimacy is always emotionally healthy, Intimacy doesn't exist outside of longstanding pair bonds, any sexual relation can be deemed unhealthy outside of longstanding intimate pair bonds precisely because emotional bonds are only positive given x amount of time and practice. It still has nothing to do with BDSM. BDSM can't have the quality of being emotionally safe/unsafe.