The 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm'

[eastern sun]

I'm going to say it because after a certain amount of abusing abuse victims by shitting on their relationships you get Nuclear Netzach in your thread and I just don't care.

I would if I thought they actually existed.

The hardest part of all is that sometimes people - like me - want to be abused. They seek out situations in which the outcome is totally predictable.

The hard part, of course, is getting off the hook once I'm caught.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

The hardest part of all is that sometimes people - like me - want to be abused. They seek out situations in which the outcome is totally predictable.

The hard part, of course, is getting off the hook once I'm caught.

There's comfort in the familiarity.

 

[eastern sun]

There's comfort in the familiarity.

That's one way of putting it.

To me it's more like scratching an itch that can only be reached in that particular way.

 

[BLoved]

The hardest part of all is that sometimes people - like me - want to be abused. They seek out situations in which the outcome is totally predictable.

The hard part, of course, is getting off the hook once I'm caught.

Living with Trauma: Cycles of Self-Destruction

As was described in the previous section, past abuse can predispose a submissive to accept more abuse.

This is not inevitable. Love has a healing quality when it comes to abuse.

Whether the love of one person can heal the abuse suffered by another very much depends on the individuals and the degree to which Love and Fear motivates them.

But there is no cure for abuse but Love.

Love helps to restore self-respect.

Love provides a solid foundation from which one can determine what is real, what is flattery, and what is delusion.

Love does not deceive.

But for those who do not find love, and for those combinations of people where the love of one was insufficient to overcome the fears of the abused, there continues this diminished sense of self-respect.

In their need for relief, they seek solace in the arms of others. But in allowing themselves to be used for the sake of the illusion of being desired they further undermine their self-respect.

Some, convinced they are not doing enough to be desirable, seek to go further, casting off limits if need be, ignoring safety concerns and pushing themselves to the brink of extinction, emotionally if not physically as well.

It is a vicious cycle which, if not stopped, eventually leaves the submissive incapable of accepting love, pushing away anything that looks like love.

After so much abuse, she simply no longer believes in it, or no longer believes herself worthy of it.

She may well go to the extreme of only seeking out situations where there is no chance of Love entering her world.

Jaded and calloused, she may even join in the abuse of others.

After so much abuse, the ability to relate to the feelings of others grows numb.

Just as it does for the domly types who abuse others.

-- "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

 

[BLoved]

I think I have more faith in people than you do.

And that, I believe, is due to the fact that I have a high degree of self-esteem.

How one feels about oneself is frequently projected onto others.

And that explains your alcoholism how?

 

[BLoved]

But what if you were a delusional psychopath with a god complex? You would truly believe that you know what is best for your beloved, and you would truly believe that you love her. And if, in your believe you thought that it is in the interest of her happiness and well-being for her to be dead for whatever reason, who would protect her from your love?

And how likely is that to go undetected through extensive conversation and dating?

How likely is that to go undetected when looking for something casual?

Transient affairs do not get nearly the attention to detail that a life-long commitment gets.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Well thanks. But in the past i have seeked professional counseling and i can tell you this, the love and respect Robert gives me is more encouraging and more supportive than any professional cousellor that i have been through. And if i did decide that i needed to seek other means for help Robert would be there supporting me throughout it all.

So the past means nothing, because Love is encouraging me to change for the best.

There was nothing wrong with me that Love couldn't fix. I may have my ups and downs, but Robert will always be at my side, through the good and the bad times.
The 2 months that Robert and I have known eachother, both of us have grown with love for one another, and that love has freed me of my chains that my parents and ex had around me.

Um. No.

Love is not a cure all. It does not heal deep emotional scars. It's at best a band-aid to cover deeper issues. It sits on the surface making you feel good and like all those past issues are magically gone, but deep down those issues are waiting to come to the surface again. If those deeper issues are not taken care of then eventually they will break through the "love" and ruin your relationship. There is a reason people seek third party professionals (whom they don't Love) to help heal those wounds.

If you have to put that much weight into love in order to free yourself from past issues then you are turning a blind eye to deeper problems that will continue to hurt you and others in the future.

You can "Love" an abuse victim as much as you want, but that still won't stop them from flinching when you go to give them a hug.

And that whole response, to me, has the potential for an, 'it's ok if he hits me because he loves me' outcome.

 

[BLoved]

However, I also believe that "abuse" (as you define it) doesn't automatically have to be a negative thing. A lot of strength and wisdom can be found in living a less than perfect life...

Abuse always has destructive consequences. Surviving abuse and overcoming the consequences can teach compassion, understanding, love for others who suffer.

However, failing to overcome the consequences can leave a person in an emotional straight-jacket, unable to handle life in a healthy way.

No one in a healthy state of mind chooses a life of abuse.

 

[BLoved]

From your writings I have formed the impression that the only person with whom you have a deep emotional loving connection is your Lover. And that other than your deceased wife (my condolences) you have never had another deep loving emotional connection. *To me*, that is dysfunctional and unhealthy. *shrug*

~smile~

I've spoken only of my beloved and my wife.

 

[eastern sun]

And that explains your alcoholism how?

I inherited my alcoholism. My sobriety I have earned.

(I have been sober now for seventeen years.)

 

[BLoved]

How much self-respect and self-esteem is s/he demonstrating when s/he is willing to give up risk life and limb because the pyl's top decides they can 'figure it out.'

And this doesn't just apply to the heavier play. Have you ever been on the receiving end and had a single tail fall just a little off? Those fuckers can flay you, but they're readily available for purchase and with the right implements you can make a wicked dragon's tongue in about 15 minutes.

Not to mention bondage... That can permanently mess someone up simply because the wrong rope was tied wrong in the wrong spot. And books aren't helpful at standing over someone's shoulder and saying "Feel this right here... That extra tension mean there's a twist here and this is how you fix it. If the ropes don't feel like this here then it's going to start hurting about three minutes after you lift them and you'll end up doing an emergency release."

You continue to ignore the caution exercised by those in love when the well-being of their beloved is at stake (assuming they are not completely stupid, such as the individual who electrocuted his wife). Given the scarcity of such incidents, I assume most people are not nearly as stupid and are far more cautious.

And I can't possibly be the only one who gets in that mood where I just want someone to flog the hell out of me.

Sadly, you have lots of company. A sign of our times that so many are dysfunctional.

Who ever said I'm not good enough to love?!?

Everyone is "good enough" to love. That doesn't mean my Mistress and Sir Love me or that I Love my Mistress and Sir.

So they view you as good enough to beat, but not good enough for them to love you.

Forgive me if I'd rather have the above instead of waiting around for my "One True Love."

Better to be beaten by people who don't love you than to not be beaten at all?

In what way is that not dysfunctional?

 

[BLoved]

Originally Posted by BLoved
In what way is intimate behaviour with no chance for intimate emotional bonding not dysfunctional?

I don't think I can even dignify this with an answer. If you don't have room for this in your worldview, we have nothing to talk about.

That is because there is no answer to the question that would satisfy a casual player.

It is the refusal to address this question that demonstrates an awareness that casual 'bdsm' is indeed emotionally abusive.

I must accept, without any ethical justification, that it is possible or else.

Your inability to defend your position is worthy of notice.

 

[BLoved]

I'll be back.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Sadly, you have lots of company. A sign of our times that so many are dysfunctional.

So they view you as good enough to beat, but not good enough for them to love you.

Better to be beaten by people who don't love you than to not be beaten at all?

In what way is that not dysfunctional?

What's your take on such activities within a relationship that meets all your other criteria?

As in, do you practice physical bdsm activities within a D/s relationship?

 

[FurryFury]

And how likely is that to go undetected through extensive conversation and dating?

You'd be surprised. It's quite likely to go undetected or ignored by some people, myself included. Those with god complexes are able to twist others viewpoints and emotional orientations if LOVE is the one thing to rule them all.

 

[BLoved]

Quite the Puritan isn't he?

~smile~

It doesn't take a puritan to recognize that 30,000 years of evolution has hardwired a connection between intimate behaviour and intimate emotional bonding.

Our cave-dwelling ancestors, sans birth control devices, found that engaging in intimate behaviour led to the making of babies.

If there was no corresponding intimate emotional bonding, those mothers would remain single and big-brained humanity would have gone extinct.

It is because intimate behaviour and intimate emotional bonding are linked that those who copulated stayed together and raised the offspring.

It is only in the last fifty years or so that intimate behaviour didn't have to lead to offspring.

Fifty years is not enough time to undo 30,000 years of hard-wiring.

Those who try end up dysfunctional.

There is nothing wrong with preventing sperm from fertilizing an egg, but to deny the connection between intimate behaviour and intimate emotional bonding is to deny one's humanity.

 

[Etoile]

That is because there is no answer to the question that would satisfy a casual player.

It is the refusal to address this question that demonstrates an awareness that casual 'bdsm' is indeed emotionally abusive.

I must accept, without any ethical justification, that it is possible or else.

Your inability to defend your position is worthy of notice.

Don't pretend you know me, sweet cheeks.

 

[Etoile]

WHY WHY WHY is anybody still trying to justify their relationships to this guy???

So an Internet Person called you dysfunctional. WHO THE HELL CARES??

Seriously people, poking the troll makes it answer. Just accept that HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOU and stop trying to make him see your way.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And how likely is that to go undetected through extensive conversation and dating?

How likely is that to go undetected when looking for something casual?

Transient affairs do not get nearly the attention to detail that a life-long commitment gets.

At two months in, your affair is still transient.

Come back in two years.

 

[midwestyankee]

WHY WHY WHY is anybody still trying to justify their relationships to this guy???

So an Internet Person called you dysfunctional. WHO THE HELL CARES??

Seriously people, poking the troll makes it answer. Just accept that HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOU and stop trying to make him see your way.

Exactly. If we all put him on Ignore (either functionally or with our self-discipline) he would soon tire of posting in empty threads.

Then we could all get back to the business of this forum - which is to talk about real things with real people who really care.

 

[Seurat]

But .... does it come in a REAL crystal skull? otherwise it is not TRUE VODKA and that is unhealthy

http://crystalheadvodka.com/agw.php

 

[BLoved]

Then wouldn't it be logical that a poster that only seeks to clarify your position could be seen as a supporter or, at the least, somebody that would prefer to support an open discussion, instead of just as another member of the 'casual community'?

Wouldn't that depend upon whether the individual has demonstrated a particular bias?

And as I pointed out in that thread, your 'downrating' on the majority of your writings was the result of a single person.

Actually, the final result posted was no less than three people voting "1"s as a result of CutieMouse's 'debate'. The down-rating continued after I'd submitted my delete requests and before my work was deleted.

And in what way are you condemning anyone for that?

I don't feel that your accusation that the posters here, as "part of the community", downgraded your writings. And without formal proof of the person or persons connections to this forum being the voter in question, I think your accusation is unfounded.

~smile~

Of course you do.

Has anyone directed you to the "bar and bathroom" as you requested?

Anyone requested more "logicgasms"?

Enjoying your popularity with those whose cause you support?

Easy to gain popularity simply by posing as one who sympathizes with the majority.

Takes no courage whatsoever to say "me too".

 

[Stella_Omega]

Allow me, my friends, to recommend the plugin in my signature. You can ignore single threads, as this functionality is not given to us on literotica.

 

[FurryFury]

I'm not trying to justify anything to this guy. I wish I could have have casual relationships. I think I might have been much healthier and further along on my personal journey if I could have.

His superior attitude is grating, his "logic" is sadly, a closed circuit. I'd like to see his thinking and knowledge expand a bit.

I'm sure he'll be knocked off his pedestal by real life soon enough. Poor thing.

Wait! I will give him no pity. That shit always gets me in trouble.

 

[BLoved]

to assault people's self esteem based on their choices.

I ask direct questions. No doubt they are difficult for those in denial.

And since self-esteem is demonstrated through the choices a person makes, it is only to be expected that questions regarding self-esteem would be based on their choices.

It has no part in civil debate. It has no part in helping someone.

I am not here to help those who have chosen a dysfunctional lifestyle.

I am here to help those who have not yet made that decision, or have not been so damaged by such a choice that they cannot make a different choice.

Those addicted to their cycles of self-destruction are beyond my ability to help.

Let's argue for a second that you are right about everything,which I absolutely don't believe.

Is this how you "help" people?

Go look up "harm reduction" or check your Tao Te Ching and come back when you're ready to be a human being.

Spare me your self-serving indignation.

Netzach: "A lot of people would call my financial use of my slave, H, abusive of him. However I can't possibly imagine slavery that involves no material enrichment for the owner that I'd still call slavery." -- Another Attempt at Abuse

It is obvious why you defend casual 'bdsm'.

I've found my beloved and seek no other. I am only here to shed some light on a subject most novices will never see, thanks to you and those like you.